OT: 78 years ago to this day - Bismarck scuttled (Full Version)

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LargeSlowTarget -> OT: 78 years ago to this day - Bismarck scuttled (5/27/2019 4:14:15 PM)

... or sunk, depending on your POV.

Anyway, I almost missed the date but for stumbling by pure accident on a new song by the Swedish power metal band Sabaton: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVWEb-At8yc

One of the viewer comments made me laugh so hard I have to share it: "Sabaton is more historically accurate than the History Channel"




Jorge_Stanbury -> RE: OT: 78 years ago to this day - Bismarck scuttled (5/27/2019 4:20:37 PM)

Lots of lives, lots of steel lost for very little

I can only think Shinano as a worst investment




Zorch -> RE: OT: 78 years ago to this day - Bismarck scuttled (5/27/2019 5:16:38 PM)

The ROI on German BCs/BBs was poor. The resources would have been better spent on air or ground forces or submarines.




Denniss -> RE: OT: 78 years ago to this day - Bismarck scuttled (5/27/2019 6:21:25 PM)

RoI for the PoW (who fought Bismarck with Hood) was no better and she had a similar fate with a lucky torp hit inflicting fatal damage, dooming her.
Bismarck, the pride of the german navy, sank the Hood, the pride of the Royal Navy, just to sink some days after.
Scharnhorst/Gneisenau sank multiple ships including a Fleet carrier. They could have (and should have) repaired Gneisenau instead of stopping all work so Scharnhorst was alone in her last fight.
Don't underestimate the Fleet-in-Being effect of the large german ships, causing the royal navy to keep large forces in the area of their operations.




Chickenboy -> RE: OT: 78 years ago to this day - Bismarck scuttled (5/27/2019 6:48:22 PM)

[casts lure upon the calm waters]

Since Bismarck was scuttled, the British lost all honour [sic] / credit for the sinking of the German battleship.

[twitches rod tip slightly]




Zorch -> RE: OT: 78 years ago to this day - Bismarck scuttled (5/27/2019 7:04:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Denniss

RoI for the PoW (who fought Bismarck with Hood) was no better and she had a similar fate with a lucky torp hit inflicting fatal damage, dooming her.
Bismarck, the pride of the german navy, sank the Hood, the pride of the Royal Navy, just to sink some days after.
Scharnhorst/Gneisenau sank multiple ships including a Fleet carrier. They could have (and should have) repaired Gneisenau instead of stopping all work so Scharnhorst was alone in her last fight.
Don't underestimate the Fleet-in-Being effect of the large german ships, causing the royal navy to keep large forces in the area of their operations.

The German capital ships did have some successes, but not in proportion to the resources expended. It takes a vast amount of skilled labor and high tensile steel to build a capital ship. They could have had a lot of tanks/artillery/whatever instead. Hitler's decision to build a large surface fleet assumed war wouldn't happen until 1946.

The British would probably have built about the same number of capital ships even if the Germans hadn't built any (lower priority, slower construction). True, they could have sent more of them to the Far East, but how much would they really have influenced the war? Would it have mattered if Force Z had 4 BBs/BCs instead of 2? The Germans got a better return on their surface raiders and pocket battleships. Their CAs were not as good for commerce raiding because of short range/unreliable engines.

Likewise, the US got very little out of the 6 'large cruisers' they laid down (only 2 were completed). They took a long time to build because completely new 12" turrets had to be designed from scratch, built, and tested, and then the rest of the ship built around them.




GetAssista -> RE: OT: 78 years ago to this day - Bismarck scuttled (5/27/2019 7:24:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy
[casts lure upon the calm waters]

Since Bismarck was scuttled, the British lost all honour [sic] / credit for the sinking of the German battleship.

[twitches rod tip slightly]

Well, they sure lost 10% VPs [:D]




RangerJoe -> RE: OT: 78 years ago to this day - Bismarck scuttled (5/27/2019 7:25:49 PM)

That is a little different than the Johnny Horton version of the battle.

But they did a very good job of it.




rustysi -> RE: OT: 78 years ago to this day - Bismarck scuttled (5/29/2019 8:12:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

[casts lure upon the calm waters]

Since Bismarck was scuttled, the British lost all honour [sic] / credit for the sinking of the German battleship.

[twitches rod tip slightly]


[:(]

[8|]

[:)]




BBfanboy -> RE: OT: 78 years ago to this day - Bismarck scuttled (5/29/2019 9:28:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

[casts lure upon the calm waters]

Since Bismarck was scuttled, the British lost all honour [sic] / credit for the sinking of the German battleship.

[twitches rod tip slightly]


[:(]

[8|]

[:)]

Both the British and the Germans had a role in sinking Bismarck! [CBs lure snags on a sunken wreck, he pulls hard and breaks his rod tip!]

[image]local://upfiles/35791/E865ECA58E6947D2B36851CDD748E2E7.gif[/image]




Zorch -> RE: OT: 78 years ago to this day - Bismarck scuttled (5/29/2019 9:55:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

[casts lure upon the calm waters]

Since Bismarck was scuttled, the British lost all honour [sic] / credit for the sinking of the German battleship.

[twitches rod tip slightly]


[:(]

[8|]

[:)]

Both the British and the Germans had a role in sinking Bismarck! [CBs lure snags on a sunken wreck, he pulls hard and breaks his rod tip!]

[image]local://upfiles/35791/E865ECA58E6947D2B36851CDD748E2E7.gif[/image]

My rod tip has gotten stuck before. It's not pretty. [8|]




LargeSlowTarget -> RE: OT: 78 years ago to this day - Bismarck scuttled (5/30/2019 10:25:45 AM)

Forgot to add - the Sabaton video must be accurate, it shows that Admiral Lütjens did NOT die in repose and had his ceremonial golden watch taken from him.




Jorge_Stanbury -> RE: OT: 78 years ago to this day - Bismarck scuttled (5/30/2019 10:29:43 AM)

and lets not forget that HMS Hood sank quicker; after only 3 minutes of being hit;

this 1st fight was clean, non controversial victory that demonstrated German efficiency


[sm=scared0018.gif]





Yaab -> RE: OT: 78 years ago to this day - Bismarck scuttled (5/30/2019 1:59:34 PM)

I heard the Meyer Werft shipyard in Germany builds quite good cruisers.




Chickenboy -> RE: OT: 78 years ago to this day - Bismarck scuttled (5/30/2019 4:46:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

and lets not forget that HMS Hood sank quicker; after only 3 minutes of being hit;

this 1st fight was clean, non controversial victory that demonstrated German efficiency


[sm=scared0018.gif]



Yes! Yes! That's the spirit! [:D]




rustysi -> RE: OT: 78 years ago to this day - Bismarck scuttled (5/30/2019 5:57:31 PM)

quote:

demonstrated German efficiency


IRL this was rather untrue. German production during the war was for the most part anything but.




Chickenboy -> RE: OT: 78 years ago to this day - Bismarck scuttled (5/30/2019 8:27:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

demonstrated German efficiency


IRL this was rather untrue. German production during the war was for the most part anything but.


Except for their Tiger tank production. Clearly superior to Sherman tank production.















[;)]




RangerJoe -> RE: OT: 78 years ago to this day - Bismarck scuttled (5/30/2019 9:20:19 PM)

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

demonstrated German efficiency

IRL this was rather untrue. German production during the war was for the most part anything but.

Except for their Tiger tank production. Clearly superior to Sherman tank production.


Incorrect. The US produced a lot more Shermans than Germany produced Tigers.




Zorch -> RE: OT: 78 years ago to this day - Bismarck scuttled (5/30/2019 9:22:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

and lets not forget that HMS Hood sank quicker; after only 3 minutes of being hit;

this 1st fight was clean, non controversial victory that demonstrated German efficiency

[sm=scared0018.gif]


It showed a brand spanking new German battleship with a crack crew could sink a 20 year old un-modernized battlecruiser with thin deck armor. [:D]




Lecivius -> RE: OT: 78 years ago to this day - Bismarck scuttled (5/31/2019 2:49:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

demonstrated German efficiency

IRL this was rather untrue. German production during the war was for the most part anything but.

Except for their Tiger tank production. Clearly superior to Sherman tank production.


Incorrect. The US produced a lot more Shermans than Germany produced Tigers.


He was being facetious [;)] Although, with CB, it is hard to tell[8D]





BBfanboy -> RE: OT: 78 years ago to this day - Bismarck scuttled (5/31/2019 5:09:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

demonstrated German efficiency

IRL this was rather untrue. German production during the war was for the most part anything but.

Except for their Tiger tank production. Clearly superior to Sherman tank production.


Incorrect. The US produced a lot more Shermans than Germany produced Tigers.


He was being facetious [;)] Although, with CB, it is hard to tell[8D]


Did you mean feces-ious?


[image]local://upfiles/35791/6ACD797758694F2398541CEF09C82EA6.gif[/image]




Lecivius -> RE: OT: 78 years ago to this day - Bismarck scuttled (5/31/2019 5:23:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

demonstrated German efficiency

IRL this was rather untrue. German production during the war was for the most part anything but.

Except for their Tiger tank production. Clearly superior to Sherman tank production.


Incorrect. The US produced a lot more Shermans than Germany produced Tigers.


He was being facetious [;)] Although, with CB, it is hard to tell[8D]


Did you mean feces-ious?


[image]local://upfiles/35791/6ACD797758694F2398541CEF09C82EA6.gif[/image]


With CB, anything is possible [:D]




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