The Japanese from a newbie’s perspective (Full Version)

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wevilc -> The Japanese from a newbie’s perspective (6/29/2019 9:24:10 PM)

I am closing in on my first end to end campaign, playing only the Japanese and thought I would jot down some thoughts and questions. So here goes.

First, I had no idea of the immensity of the Japanese achievement in purely military terms. Nor did I appreciate the immense scale of the conflict in China. This is one of the reasons I like these games - they are historically instructive.

Second, how the heck do you make China surrender? I all but knocked them out but had to start retreating sometime around the end of ‘44 due to mounting pressure on other fronts. Do you have to conquer every hex?

Third, is the AI weak? I am playing intermediate level and it’s February 1946. I still hold half of China (but not for long), Korea, Thailand, Indo-China, Malaya and Singapore, Java and Sumatra, Borneo and a bunch of island fortresses. I still haven’t mastered all the rules and I am certainly no specialist gamer. Should I tweak them up a notch or two or does that make the game too challenging.

Germany finally surrendered in July or August 1945, so reasonably historical I guess. The Soviets made Berlin well before the allies. It was interesting to see how the European theatre played out, AI V AI. Germany never got close to knocking out any of threee principal Russian cities. Finland was conquered. Spain joined the axis and conquered Portugal. The battle of the Atlantic dragged on and on and on. Bulgaria was the last surviving European axis nation. Playing the Brits must be blardy complicated. Can you play them separately from the yanks or are they yoked together.

No atom bombs have dropped on Japan. Are they not in the game?

The combined fleet is awesome. Had a blast knocking out allied surface vessels in local waters. I wish I knew how to take better care of the battleships, cruisers etc. I seem to have ended up with like 8 carriers and 1 cruiser lol. Oh, and two subs.

I did not use engineers at any stage, due to not knowing they existed. I will prioritise research next time, build no or only a few ships, focus on air power, not bother much with armour as there is almost no suitable terrain for it, make a better job of Malaya and Singapore, not bother with strategic bombers, maybe use artillery (do the Japs have artillery?) in the later stages and try to understand operational movement better.

I would greatly welcome any comments and advice.



Mercutio -> RE: The Japanese from a newbie’s perspective (6/29/2019 9:49:20 PM)

Hi wevilc,

To get China to surrender, you have to take their alternative alternate capital way over in the NW corner.

Naval was supposedly patched in release 1.03, just trying one out as the axis. To be fair I don't recall any strategic game that handles the pacific well. As the AI it does a nice job of snagging all the territories it did historically though.

You can play as any or all allied nations US, UK, USSR, China, India, Poland and France. Axis you can play Germany, Italy and Japan.

If you are the allies and you have a base close enough to Japan <Edit> From the strategic guide:
An important aim will be to ensure that Manila is in Allied hands, and also to land in at least one of the following locations: Taipei, Naha, Iwo Jima, Saipan or Seoul. One of these locations can then, from 1st August 1945, be used as the base for dropping Atomic Bombs on Japan, see DE 309. Doing so will strike a powerful blow at Japanese National Morale, as well as badly damaging the targeted resources and any defending units in their vicinity.</Edit>

Yes, Japan has artillery. It could be useful in China as well as the medium and maybe a strategic bomber. Japan's maritime bombers are very good and get 2 attacks per turn.

Japan plays entirely different than Germany. engineers are only used to build fortifications. USSR and Germany in particular can make use of them. China as well. Japan, maybe in multiplayer to help defend Philippines and the homelands.

Against a human it will be entirely different.

Glad you are enjoying it. It is a very good game and quite addicting.



wevilc -> RE: The Japanese from a newbie’s perspective (6/30/2019 8:08:18 AM)

Yikes! I have been clinging onto Seoul with my fingernails without realising what was at stake! However, it will be the Soviets that take it, not the US, so I guess I am safe from the bomb for now. The US has made no effort to capture any of the places you mention so I guess the AI maybe doesn’t know their significance. Poor AI play might take the fun out of things a bit, but that day lies a little way off.

I got to within two hexes of that distant capital before running out of steam and deciding the time had come to beat a retreat. Now I know the prize at stake I can probably focus a bit more on that part of the front in future attempts.

I did not know the maritime bombers got two shots either. Dang! Could definitely use more planes generally. I will prioritise them over ships as I think the navy with its scheduled reinforcements should be OK so long as I am not reckless with it, as I was when stumbling into uncharted waters south of Java and losing three surface vessels.

And research will be maxed out too. I am really looking forward to starting over!

Thanks John E. I appreciate your comments.




Hubert Cater -> RE: The Japanese from a newbie’s perspective (6/30/2019 2:33:23 PM)

Hi Wevilc,

Starting a new game under v1.03 should see some Allied AI improvement in the Pacific (only from a fresh start of a campaign etc.), let us know how it goes [:)]

Hubert



Mercutio -> RE: The Japanese from a newbie’s perspective (6/30/2019 6:12:42 PM)

Yep, 42 the allies did a few stealth landings on me, bastages. Well played.



wevilc -> RE: The Japanese from a newbie’s perspective (6/30/2019 8:07:45 PM)

Hubert

Has the game been updated or something? I play on Steam so I hope (not really understanding these things) I get the update automatically.




Mercutio -> RE: The Japanese from a newbie’s perspective (6/30/2019 8:17:33 PM)

It should have updated Thursday. However an existing game will not get all the new stuff like the naval scripts.



wevilc -> RE: The Japanese from a newbie’s perspective (6/30/2019 11:44:16 PM)

OK thx John E



wevilc -> RE: The Japanese from a newbie’s perspective (7/1/2019 3:52:02 PM)

Umm, does anyone know where Hainan is? Apparently, if Japan occupies it on 29th July 1941 and provided certain other conditions are fulfilled Japan should be presented with the option of occupying Indo China for 25 MPPs. That would be quite cool and worth aiming for, but I cannot find the place! [&:]

ETA found it. Panic over.



wevilc -> RE: The Japanese from a newbie’s perspective (7/2/2019 3:23:29 PM)

Well, I think I am going to knock out China in 1943 in my second end to end game. The secret seems to be to research and then upgrade the Japanese infantry ASAP, because then the Chinese losses really mount. I have probably overdone it, unnecessarily upgrading everything, whether necessary or not, so I will be less profligate next time.

I sent my highly mobile armies to China’s last capital and kept all my corps back in the interior to snuff out partisan activity.

I raised the difficulty of ASW on another thread. In this game, I have researched ASW to level 4 and have 3 fully upgraded destroyers patrolling the convoy routes. This seems to work very well. Sunk two subs so far and kept the routes open too.



wevilc -> RE: The Japanese from a newbie’s perspective (7/2/2019 6:16:51 PM)

China fell in July 1943, resulting in humongous plunder for the Japs. I intend to open a front against the Soviets based in Manchuria to relieve the pressure on the Germans and disrupt US aid. Might actually win this one.

In the Pacific, no sign of the US (other than subs), just two piecemeal sorties by the Brits both ending in disaster. So it’s all good and I am enjoying the game more and more as I grasp the mechanics better.



Hubert Cater -> RE: The Japanese from a newbie’s perspective (7/2/2019 8:00:30 PM)

Great to hear and when you start a new game under v1.03 I suspect you'll notice quite a few differences not only for your fight in China but also from the Allied AI in the Pacific.




wevilc -> RE: The Japanese from a newbie’s perspective (7/2/2019 8:46:33 PM)

I guess I have to let Steam update the game. I confess to not understanding Steam (or techie things in general).



Hubert Cater -> RE: The Japanese from a newbie’s perspective (7/3/2019 1:12:01 AM)

Steam should automatically update your game and if it shows v1.03.00 in the bottom right hand corner of the game MAIN SCREEN then you are up to date. It is just that campaign changes like the improved AI scripts and other fixes won't go into effect until you start a new game under v1.03.00.



wevilc -> RE: The Japanese from a newbie’s perspective (7/3/2019 5:11:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hubert Cater

Steam should automatically update your game and if it shows v1.03.00 in the bottom right hand corner of the game MAIN SCREEN then you are up to date. It is just that campaign changes like the improved AI scripts and other fixes won't go into effect until you start a new game under v1.03.00.

Thx Hubert. Thar is helpful.



wevilc -> RE: The Japanese from a newbie’s perspective (7/4/2019 7:00:13 PM)

December ‘46. Berlin is about to fall and then the game will be up for the Japanese who are otherwise in excellent shape, still in control of the empire staked out in ‘42. But against the combined might if the allies once Germany has gone there is no chance. Already, 8 US super carriers have shown up in the Java sea and these monsters can only be attacked at suicidal odds, something for which I had not prepared by stocking up on kami-kaze planes.

So it seems to me that winning by playing only the Japs is going to be difficult. One improvement would be to get the Russian campaign going as soon as China falls, of even once the fall is inevitable. It took me the best part of a year to transfer my elite units over to Manchuria from Urumchi. Much better to launch the campaign in ‘43 than ‘44 because it really does draw off hordes of Russkies leaving the Germans a much easier task to cling on in their east.

I have a few questions about units:

- strategic bombers; these become devastating for the allies in the later stages but I can’t see any use for them for the Japs
- anti-aircraft units; how are these best used? I have one but as far as I can see it doesn’t actually do anything
- anti-tank units; same as above
- engineers; at least I understand these but again, for the Japs, they seem to be of little use.
- subs; my two subs have had an epic war, visiting the west coast of the US and the far north above Vladisvostok while not actually accomplishing anything [&:]. I finally sent them to disrupt trade in the Indian Ocean and that at least seems to make them useful.

I would be interested to hear what uses other players have for these units whether in the hands of the Japs or not



sveint -> RE: The Japanese from a newbie’s perspective (7/4/2019 8:52:53 PM)

Strat bombers are not very useful for Japan. Can be used to bomb isolated/remote Chinese cities to limit supply. Not really worth the MPs as these are tight as Japan.

Anti-air units protect themselves and adjacent units from US airpower. Once the US shows up in force you'll be glad for each and every of these you have.

Anti-tank. Useless.

Engineers, use them to create chokepoints or forts where you know you will be attacked. Not easy for Japan and not that useful in a naval war. Much more useful for Soviets/Germany.

Subs are best used for economic warfare. You CAN get lucky when they operate by themselves but odds are low. Best used to scout for your carrier fleet.



wevilc -> RE: The Japanese from a newbie’s perspective (7/5/2019 12:48:59 AM)

Thx sveint. Useful to know.



wevilc -> RE: The Japanese from a newbie’s perspective (7/5/2019 1:30:08 PM)

And Germany finally surrendered in Apr ‘46. Berlin could have been taken quite easily a few turns ago but the AI seemed to prefer hoovering up German units scattered in the Balkans, Norway and Denmark first. A funny thing is the British had their backs to the wall in Egypt pretty much throughout while the Italians likewise clung onto Algiers right up until surrender in 1945 when the western allies invaded through France. The campaign in the Med seems otherwise to have been won by the Axis.

So that just leaves the still mighty Japanese, still holding an extensive empire. I might just play this out to see how tough it gets. The US, having plundered nearly 3,000 MPPs from Germany, will surely soon show up in vast hordes.



wevilc -> RE: The Japanese from a newbie’s perspective (7/5/2019 11:51:21 PM)

Axis tactical victory!

Pretty chuffed with that. At May 1947 the Japs still held Harbin in Manchuria (the front line), Korea, most of China, Indo-China, the NEI, the Phillipines, Thailand, Malaya & Singapore, Borneo, East Timor, most of Burma and all the little islands staked out in ‘42 (which, for some reason, the AI disdains to assault). Oh, and Japan [:D]

Lessons learned (in no particular order):

- knocking out China is perfectly feasible
- researching and upgrading infantry units is the way to do it
- four destroyers maxed out on ASW research are enough to suppress the submarine menace, albeit with occasional help
- anticipating China’s surrender, the Japs should be diverting units to Manchuria AFAP to open a second front against the USSR, ideally in ‘43
- kami-kazis are a blast at the end
- the campaign in Burma should be confined to getting the Brits bogged down around Mandalay
- artillery units are useful, anti-tank not so much. Must get into anti-aircraft a bit more
- the Jap subs are not very useful. Send them into the Indian Ocean and play cat and mouse there. I lost both units to Brit destroyers.
- research is key and so is a large bankroll to pay for upgrades, but one must be selective
- the combined fleet in home waters (which extend down to the Java sea) is extremely powerful. Both the US and UK navies were shredded.



Mercutio -> RE: The Japanese from a newbie’s perspective (7/6/2019 12:07:03 AM)

Well played wevilc. If you like, I am pretty new and barely started a MP match. I would recommend playing all the axis (and/or allies) vs a human though.



wevilc -> RE: The Japanese from a newbie’s perspective (7/6/2019 12:18:38 AM)

Thank you! Yes, playing a human opponent is something I will do but, being a cautious soul, I first want to grasp some more of the basics. I only learned right at the end of that game, for example, that not all HQ units sre the same! Egad! That’s just one of many points you pros already know. I am going to play the Japs one more time, I think, then it’s on to one of the allies, maybe the soviets, I dunno.



wevilc -> RE: The Japanese from a newbie’s perspective (7/7/2019 10:58:18 AM)

My 3rd and final go with the Japs is reaching the critcal phase just before Pearl Harbour and the assault on Malaya, Singapore and the NEI and I have a question about amphibious assaults. When is it best to use long range as opposed to short range assault craft? And do the troops suffer from being at sea for a long time? I think I read that somewhere but now I can’t find it.

This game will only differ from the last one in that I plan to attack the Soviets in 1943 rather than 1944 to see what effect that has on the German campaign in Russia. Yes, I really am that boring [:)]

Then it’s onto, I dunno, the Russkies probably.



Mercutio -> RE: The Japanese from a newbie’s perspective (7/7/2019 12:14:28 PM)

Long range amphibious can use cruise to go a lot farther in a turn. Even normal movement is farther than the normal ones. The short range ones lose supply each turn while the long ones don't.

Also, you realize that China also borders Russia? You could move the units you used to capture China and just keep going. Well, maybe 4-6 units as it is rather restricted with roads.





wevilc -> RE: The Japanese from a newbie’s perspective (7/7/2019 1:34:59 PM)

Thanks Mercutio. Much obliged.

For three reasons, I prefer the Manchuria campaign:

1 I want to capture Vladivostok
2 I want to defend Manchuria and don’t plan to invade, since tying up Soviet units is the aim and the further away from their European front the better.
3 keeping going would have the Japs fighting further and further from their own turf along extended lines of supply with no rail network.

Funnily enough, in my last game, the British tied up units on and just on my side of the Himalayas. I never actually saw them, only being aware of their presence only because of their attrition losses which, for reasons unknown, are transmitted through the fog of war (which, of course, I keep switched on)



Mercutio -> RE: The Japanese from a newbie’s perspective (7/7/2019 9:39:03 PM)

Hi wevilc

1) You can still do that. Once you take the Chinese second capital it is all choke at that point. Actually even before that, you can divert some units away, but the final push should be a fraction of your original Chinese army.
2) OK, that's fine
3) An HQ in a city gives decent supply. It is getting there. That would also require the USSR to send troops to stop you from walking in. Or you can take 1/2 to a year to extract those units from the depths of China. It is a call you have to make. I am not saying I am right.



wevilc -> RE: The Japanese from a newbie’s perspective (7/7/2019 11:13:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercutio

Hi wevilc

1) You can still do that. Once you take the Chinese second capital it is all choke at that point. Actually even before that, you can divert some units away, but the final push should be a fraction of your original Chinese army.
2) OK, that's fine
3) An HQ in a city gives decent supply. It is getting there. That would also require the USSR to send troops to stop you from walking in. Or you can take 1/2 to a year to extract those units from the depths of China. It is a call you have to make. I am not saying I am right.


TBH Mercutio, I still don’t understand properly how supply works. Along with many other things, like why some of my units have 1% morale for instance. So, I appreciate your comments. Still, I think I can achieve everything I want by fighting in Manchuria. I probably have surplus land units once China falls but I am reluctant to open further new fronts, whether into Russia via Urumchi or into India through Burna.



Mercutio -> RE: The Japanese from a newbie’s perspective (7/7/2019 11:43:58 PM)

What I said was speculative. All good.



wevilc -> RE: The Japanese from a newbie’s perspective (7/10/2019 7:09:09 AM)

Did anyone ever try out not attacking Pearl Harbour? While it is certainly fun to knock out some US capital ships the operation diverts the combined fleet from home waters where it is needed to support the attacks on Malaya and the Dutch East Indies. I fancy those US ships will probably show up anyway in the Java sea where rubbing them out should not be a problem. Might try it out.



Wushuki -> RE: The Japanese from a newbie’s perspective (7/10/2019 1:24:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: wevilc

I raised the difficulty of ASW on another thread. In this game, I have researched ASW to level 4 and have 3 fully upgraded destroyers patrolling the convoy routes. This seems to work very well. Sunk two subs so far and kept the routes open too.


Yes, i realized as well by now it is not that bad. I thought that the sub upgrades gave them +1 to naval defense as well, but this is not the case. My own bad results were most likely due to not recognizing when there were stormy seas, which greatly reduce naval combat results.

So you have 4 answers to subs: high ASW destroyers, torpedo boats, escort carriers and maritime bombers. Maritime bombers and carriers can help with high sea spotting as well. All in all they are not too hard to deal with, especially late game.



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