RE: Version 3.06 under way (Full Version)

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FrankHunter -> RE: Version 3.06 under way (9/4/2019 12:41:52 AM)

Iwein, I remember that bug. I can't recall the last time I saw it unfortunately nor what the cause turned out to be. But I do remember looking into it.




Biondo -> RE: Version 3.06 under way (9/4/2019 6:48:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FrankHunter

Just wanted to say the game will be able to be played in english, french, german, spanish, swedish, russian and japanese. Also, as the text is in editable files the translation can be improved. For example, I did Russian using google translate, its not going to be perfect, hopefully its a good start as the Russian text can be easily modified. Also, if someone wanted to play in a language that isn't available, one can choose one of the above files as a start point and translate that into their preferred language.

I've also been spending time trying to improve the AI.

I hope I can make this available soon.




I'll try to make an Italian translation and make it available as a mod[:)].

Thanks Frank

I have another request:
it's possible to have the commander/unit you select using the Find menu, highlighted, selected and on top of the stack? Or possibly a way to filter units on screen?

Regards



FrankHunter -> RE: Version 3.06 under way (9/4/2019 9:09:46 PM)

Biondo, I can send you the english text if you want to do an Italian translation that I would include as a hard-coded option?



Biondo -> RE: Version 3.06 under way (9/4/2019 11:15:56 PM)

Just sent you a PM [:)]



Iwein -> RE: Version 3.06 under way (9/8/2019 5:23:05 AM)


There is however only one bug that I am finding very annoying. Sometimes when I have units in the same hex as the enemy and I order my units to engage the enemy then nothing is happening. All the friendly and enemy units simply stay in the same hex. If the enemy units should retreat a couple of hexes and my units should follow up then I can understand this but this is not happening. Just a stand off in the same hex and this stand off can last several turns


Hi guys, did someone of you discover a way how to deal with this bug?

I am putting all my corps on "engage" but it doesn't work out very well and the enemy units are staying in the same hex without battle.

Another trial is first to withdraw from the hex and the turn after to re-enter the hex with the engage order. Sometimes this work to have a battle.

Other possible solutions?



Rasputitsa -> RE: Version 3.06 under way (9/8/2019 7:23:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iwein


There is however only one bug that I am finding very annoying. Sometimes when I have units in the same hex as the enemy and I order my units to engage the enemy then nothing is happening. All the friendly and enemy units simply stay in the same hex. If the enemy units should retreat a couple of hexes and my units should follow up then I can understand this but this is not happening. Just a stand off in the same hex and this stand off can last several turns


Hi guys, did someone of you discover a way how to deal with this bug?

I am putting all my corps on "engage" but it doesn't work out very well and the enemy units are staying in the same hex without battle.

Another trial is first to withdraw from the hex and the turn after to re-enter the hex with the engage order. Sometimes this work to have a battle.

Other possible solutions?


The reasons I can think of for your units not to fight is if the units, or corps commander, have high stress, lack of supply, or maybe the commander has a low 'battle' rating. Are the units, or the corps commander 'brittle', 'wavering', etc., which would also stop them fighting.

But if Frank thinks it's a bug then there may not be an immediate solution.



FrankHunter -> RE: Version 3.06 under way (9/23/2019 5:46:34 AM)

I think it was a bug, and I think I fixed it. I have been playing the game every day lately and haven't come across it again. Its just that I don't recall directly fixing it, I think it was fixed indirectly when I fixed something else.

Now watch, it'll show up again the day after the new version goes out...




Rasputitsa -> RE: Version 3.06 under way (9/25/2019 2:24:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FrankHunter

Now watch, it'll show up again the day after the new version goes out...



Any time scale for the new version ? [:D]



FrankHunter -> RE: Version 3.06 under way (9/28/2019 2:44:49 AM)

Still working at improving the AI. I've noticed a couple of issues that I think I can make better.




Rasputitsa -> RE: Version 3.06 under way (9/29/2019 2:36:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FrankHunter

Still working at improving the AI. I've noticed a couple of issues that I think I can make better.



Thanks Frank, I know this all takes time, but I just had to ask.

There was the issue in the posted AAR where I think I, as French, captured the AI Austrian LOC contents of 3400+ supply points.

I ran the turns again as Austrians to see what happened, but when running game saves originaly set as French human again Austrians AI, you cannot see CHARLES, so cannot check where the AI LOC was, or what size. However, I strongly suspect that the capture was the AI LOC.

In which case perhaps the AI needs some protection against losing its LOC, as it will not be able to anticipate the danger as well as a human player and the loss of the LOC is a game breaker.

I am suggesting that in the case of this AI opponent LOC loss, it could trigger a routine to protect the AI, by saving some of the supply with a retrospective transfer to another town, or burning some, whilst still allowing some to be captured, all on a random basis, rather than allowing a complete loss, which would finish the game.



FrankHunter -> RE: Version 3.06 under way (9/29/2019 6:37:20 PM)

Yes, that is probably what happened, it was the LoC you captured which of course would leave the Austrians finished. The AI around the LoC is different when defending or falling back than it is when advancing. Lack of supply going to forward corps of course leads to a lack of aggressiveness, especially on the part of the French AI. Which is something I'm looking at.



Rasputitsa -> RE: Version 3.06 under way (9/29/2019 6:55:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FrankHunter

Yes, that is probably what happened, it was the LoC you captured which of course would leave the Austrians finished. The AI around the LoC is different when defending or falling back than it is when advancing. Lack of supply going to forward corps of course leads to a lack of aggressiveness, especially on the part of the French AI. Which is something I'm looking at.


What confused me is that it looks like the AI Austrian LOC was at PASSAU and the 'captured' 3400+ supply appeared before PASSAU was taken. I can only think that the AI tried to evacuate the LOC and that the convoy was captured by running into the advancing French units.

The computer controlled supply system does not usually create convoys of that size (3400+) and it is a big risk if it gets captured, so somehow the AI should be saved from itself, to avoid this game-killer, even if it is treating the supply as burnt, rather than so easily captured.



Rasputitsa -> RE: Version 3.06 under way (9/29/2019 7:14:26 PM)

P.S. - Playing French with computer controlled supply and the captured 3400+ supply was not sent to the French LOC, but to the town of NEUMARKT, as with another smaller convoy, which also looked like captured supply. No problem with that, as it adds to the variety, but still surprised to see it.

Could there be a way to redirect supply convoys which are already in motion, to avoid them running into danger, or if you change your mind. However, I have seen computer controlled convoys waiting if enemy units blocked the route and moving on when the way became clear, which is impressive, so the system is not dumb.



Rasputitsa -> RE: Version 3.06 under way (9/29/2019 7:30:06 PM)

The French made more use of foraging and were not so dependent on supply convoys, so they could be more aggressive in an otherwise low supply situation.

Manual extract :

12.4 CAPTURING SUPPLY
If a supply unit is alone in the same hex with an enemy unit it is captured.

When a town falls to French forces the Forage Value of that town is determined semi-randomly. Each town has a set value for the number of standard dice rolled when capture occurs that is determined at scenario start. Once a town has been foraged, it does not roll again; the area is considered to be cleaned out.

Does this still apply ? If so, can the player see the 'Forage Value' of a town, maybe by mouse-over, like hex Stack numbers are shown in the top game bar. It is also about how the player would see that a town was 'cleaned out', even if the actual figures were randomly obscured by FOW.



FrankHunter -> RE: Version 3.06 under way (9/29/2019 8:42:22 PM)

The supply convoys will stop and wait if the route is blocked. And yes the French can still forage, they are also able to go without supply for a couple of days at reduced command stress compared to the Austrians.

However, I noticed a lack of aggressiveness on their part in the historical 1805 scenario so I'm looking at different things, especially around the new supply rules regarding how much can leave a town in a day and I have made what I hope are some improvements. Also looking at supports for forward corps. Where an AI corps will move to attack expecting to be supported by another corps and that second corps has stopped due to supply constraints leaving the first corps exposed. Trying to tighten things up a bit around that. While deep in the AI I also found several routines that I wasn't happy with and have re-written them to be more effective. Playing it a lot to see how it all comes together now.





Rasputitsa -> RE: Version 3.06 under way (9/30/2019 6:53:41 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FrankHunter

especially around the new supply rules regarding how much can leave a town in a day and I have made what I hope are some improvements.



I have noticed that the computer controlled supply system rarely sends out convoys of more than 100 points, which is why I was surprised to see one at 3400+.

I am using house rules restricting the player initiated supply convoys to 100 points per turn from any town, except 300 points per turn from larger towns such as Munich, Ulm, Vienna, etc., with no real data, just an expectation that there would be more wagons and carts available to requisition for supply.

So definitely agree that there should be some restriction over the present size limit to supply convoys, which seems to be at 1000 points right now.

Another oddity about the 'captured' 3400+ supply convoy was that there was no message - Gency captured XXXX supply.



Rasputitsa -> RE: Version 3.06 under way (9/30/2019 7:08:18 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FrankHunter

And yes the French can still forage, they are also able to go without supply for a couple of days at reduced command stress compared to the Austrians.



Is there any advantage in showing the forage value of hexes (towns, or areas) and should there be some limit on the overall supply movement capacity. Essentially, how many carts and wagons are available and how much supply can be in motion at any one time.

I recognise that supply is partially abstracted and needs to stay that way, but it's a question of what limit should be imposed and how the player is shown those limitations, e.g. how much forage is available and when it's 'cleaned out', with some FOW variation.



FrankHunter -> RE: Version 3.06 under way (10/2/2019 2:58:10 AM)

The new version already limits the number of supplies that can leave a town each day. The centre of operations has a much higher limit. House rules won't be needed.

Yes, I don't want to add more detail to the supply rules, right now you can hand it over to the AI and its something you have to think about as you maneuver but you don't have to act as a quartermaster unless you want to.

The forage values of towns is somewhat random, and I don't think the number of supplies available should be known. Its more like how much can we take before there's nothing left.





Rasputitsa -> RE: Version 3.06 under way (10/2/2019 8:12:38 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FrankHunter

The new version already limits the number of supplies that can leave a town each day. The centre of operations has a much higher limit. House rules won't be needed.

Yes, I don't want to add more detail to the supply rules, right now you can hand it over to the AI and its something you have to think about as you maneuver but you don't have to act as a quartermaster unless you want to.

The forage values of towns is somewhat random, and I don't think the number of supplies available should be known. Its more like how much can we take before there's nothing left.



I realised when I wrote the last mail that adding much to the supply system might complicate the process and simplicity is one of CotD's greatest strengths, so all looking good.





Rasputitsa -> RE: Version 3.06 under way (10/2/2019 8:57:29 AM)

Sorry to keep mentioning the 3400+ 'captured' Austrian supply, but if it was the AI's LOC then it's game over.

Capturing a normal supply convoy, is merely redirecting supplies which are already on the move and packed in wagons and carts, but in a Napoleonic context, it would not be possible to walk away with a captured LOC, that had taken days, or weeks to accumulate and will be dispersed around the depot town.

If the AI LOC is captured, then the player should be rewarded with part of that capture, but a lot would have been burnt and any Quarter Master would be trying to save as much as possible, by sending it to the rear on the approach of enemy troops.

I propose that in the case of a capture of more than 500 (or thereabouts) supply points, a random routine would allocate some to be captured, some to burn and the rest to be reallocated to the base supply point VIENNA/ULM.

Alternatively, a large sized capture cannot be moved as a single convoy and must stay at the capture point, giving the opposition a chance to re-capture the supply. Supplies in a depot are not easily moved by the attacker, until the transport is moved in from the rear echelon, which is going to take time.

Maybe the rule changes on the size of convoys may address some of this, but it should not be possible to empty a large captured supply depot, without a significant penalty.



Rasputitsa -> RE: Version 3.06 under way (10/3/2019 5:26:16 AM)

I think that I am overthinking the supply issue, which should not be over complicated.

There is a difference between supply convoys in motion and supply held in town depots, either LOC, or not.

A supply convoy can be intercepted by opposing units and redirected into the enemy supply system, as now. The supply is already mobile and all that is being changed is the ownership and destination.

However, supply depots in towns are not mobile and are most likely dispersed, as 19th century supply is potentially perishable and cannot be merely heaped up in supply dumps, as can be modern practice.

Captured depot supply cannot easily assembled and moved, there just isn't the transport instantly available.

In v3.05 there is no orders delay in the supply system, as supply moves and/or is burnt in the same turn as ordered.

Captured depot supply should be set to stay were it is, only the ownership changes, units can be set to draw supply from the captured depot, whilst normal supply rules for v3.06 should restrict the size of convoys and, with orders delay, how fast the captured depot supply can be re-positioned.

Whilst 'burn' orders from the army commander would be subject to orders delay, the random burning of captured depot supplies either in part, or totally, could be exempt from orders delay, as this is something that would happen under local initiative on the approach of enemy forces.

The instant movement of huge quantities of supply from a captured LOC, like the 3400+ convoy of captured supply, should not happen in v3,06.

There is still the question of whether the AI needs some help to avoid losing the total contents on its LOC, to stay in the game, but that is another issue.






Rasputitsa -> RE: Version 3.06 under way (10/18/2019 5:32:02 PM)

I think that I read there was a limit to the number of messages/orders you could send each turn. If this is correct, can there be an indication somewhere of how many messages you have available to send orders.



Rasputitsa -> RE: Version 3.06 under way (10/19/2019 9:12:37 AM)

During the turn resolution the player sees info panels when orders are received by commanders, see example below :


[image]local://upfiles/3593/89D4D6EB0AFA455AA39D4453E2E120F2.jpg[/image]


Can text be added to the message to help show which order has been received, like :

'Objective hex 39,18', or 'Objective PASSAU'.

In some cases orders delay can be 1 or 2 hrs, sometimes more than 24 hrs in game time, so the sequence these 'orders received' messages come in is jumbled.

I think that the objective is the most important issue and would help to keep a check on commander intentions.

I realise that some orders do no contain objectives and are based on different issues, like 'Contact stance', 'To the guns', 'Retreat point', etc., so it would be excessive to repeat the whole order content in the order received panel. However the consequences of a corps having the wrong objective are great and need to be highlighted to the player.

I don't know how much can reasonably be added to the 'order received' confirmation, but would be grateful for anything which would help identify which order had been received.



Rasputitsa -> RE: Version 3.06 under way (10/19/2019 9:52:07 AM)

Thinking more on this :

Could the 'order received' notification just be adapted from the original order sequence, looking like this :




[image]local://upfiles/3593/6B2B83FF3D8C4CCA934656BFDBFCEBEE.jpg[/image]



Remembering that the player may be seeing this some time after issuing the original order and it would act as a reminder and help indicate if mistakes have been made in that order.








Tejszd -> RE: Version 3.06 under way (10/19/2019 4:14:49 PM)

Some great suggestions to help the player Rasputitsa!



altipueri -> RE: Version 3.06 under way (10/19/2019 6:01:20 PM)

More scenarios or a set of instructions on how to vary the existing ones?

I am sure one of the keys to the success of the first Combat Mission and Civilization games was the ability for players to make scenarios without needing deep programming skills.


The game system should be usable for almost any pre railway and telegraph/telephone campaign.

It is nearly like this bit I read by Jomini on Napoleon working out where and how he should send his armies:

"The emperor was his own chief staff officer. Provided with a pair of dividers opened to a distance by the scale of from seventeen to twenty miles (which made from twenty-two to twenty-five miles, taking into account the windings of the roads,) bending over and at sometimes stretched at full length upon his map, where the positions of his corps and the supposed positions of the enemy were marked by pins of different colors, he was able to give orders for extensive movements with a certainty and precision which were astonishing."


I imagine a full editor will be a mammoth task, but even some instructions on how to make minor amendments to start locations, victory points and times would enable a crop of player made scenarios to grow.


PS - I've just re-read my Jomini quote -and the key word, I think, is "supposed" - but it applies not only to enemy but sometimes his own corps.



Rasputitsa -> RE: Version 3.06 under way (10/20/2019 1:03:00 PM)

Can we have a weather reminder, which stays available on the game screen, maybe in the army commanders info panel.



[image]local://upfiles/3593/EDAB9A2AB48E40C88789064B979B4F9C.jpg[/image]



Rasputitsa -> RE: Version 3.06 under way (10/22/2019 7:25:53 AM)

I think this has been mentioned before, but for consideration in v3.06.

If you transfer all the units from a corps commander to other commanders and the original commander is left with no units, then that commander's unit icon disappears from the map and he is removed from the list of corps commanders in 'Find'.

It is unlikely that anyone would want to do this, but in the heat of battle if you inadvertently go too far with transfers, then you have lost a commander.

Perhaps when there is only one unit left in any commander's list, then it should be 'locked' and transfer denied. Better still, even without any attached units, the corps commander icon should stay on the map and the name stay in the commanders list, so that units can be transferred back into that corps.

This does not apply to the army commander who, although accepting transferred units, has no 'view units' list.

Note: You can still see which units are attached to the army commander even without a 'view units' feature, by using 'Find' button and looking at divisions, where it shows which commander the divisions are attached to, including the army commander, NAPOLEON, or CHARLES.



Rasputitsa -> RE: Version 3.06 under way (11/1/2019 7:13:04 AM)

Any news on how it's going ?



CaptBeefheart -> RE: Version 3.06 under way (11/27/2019 3:59:25 AM)

Now that this is on sale for $10, I'm considering buying it and Piercing Fortress Europa. Just checking in as to the future of these titles before I pull the trigger.

EDIT: Rasputitsa: Excellent work, by the way, with your feedback on this and the other game. Kudos for keeping interest up.

Cheers,
CB



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