RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? (Full Version)

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L0ckAndL0ad -> RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? (11/9/2019 1:16:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: spence

quote:

PS: Oh, and what was that film where Halsey takes over after Ghormley is relieved, about the Guadalcanal campaign? I need to watch it again too. Anyone remembers the name?


"The Gallant Hours"

Ah, yes, thank you! Will definitely re-watch!



rkr1958 -> RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? (11/9/2019 3:36:15 PM)

Check this out: http://www.midway42.org/Backissues/2018/20180601.aspx

Relevant discussions in this and following issues of the BOM roundtable newsletter convinced me that this is a must see move and will likely be done (historically) well. If these folks are involved advising I don't think I could ask for more.



rkr1958 -> RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? (11/9/2019 3:37:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: L0ckAndL0ad

quote:

ORIGINAL: spence

quote:

PS: Oh, and what was that film where Halsey takes over after Ghormley is relieved, about the Guadalcanal campaign? I need to watch it again too. Anyone remembers the name?


"The Gallant Hours"

Ah, yes, thank you! Will definitely re-watch!
Picked this move up from Amazon on blue ray two to three weeks ago. Not (historically) bad as I understand it, especially given when it was made.



jagsdomain -> RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? (11/9/2019 3:40:59 PM)

James Cagney as Bull Halsey. Perfict have to watch it.
quote:

ORIGINAL: L0ckAndL0ad

quote:

ORIGINAL: spence

quote:

PS: Oh, and what was that film where Halsey takes over after Ghormley is relieved, about the Guadalcanal campaign? I need to watch it again too. Anyone remembers the name?


"The Gallant Hours"

Ah, yes, thank you! Will definitely re-watch!




spence -> RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? (11/9/2019 5:51:49 PM)

I'll go see this movie at some point in the theater. It can't be as bad as either TMWSNBN or the 1976 version of MIDWAY. That movie swallowed Mitsuo Fuchida's account of the battle whole and has been revealed by Japanese sources as a mostly a construct to make the results of the battle a matter of bad luck for the Japanese and absolve them of any responsibility.



Miller -> RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? (11/9/2019 9:00:40 PM)

I think anyone with little or no knowledge of the battle would give it a solid 3/5. The two biggest bug bears for me were the total omission of US fighter operations of any kind and Jap super AA that shot down about 30 SBDs alone whilst in real life it was 2 or 3.



John 3rd -> RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? (11/9/2019 9:11:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: amon15

Enlighten me guys... what does "TMTSNBN" mean? [:)]
warspite1

Nice sig line picture amon15 [:)]



I concur. NICE Pic!



Elessar2 -> RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? (11/9/2019 9:44:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

I think anyone with little or no knowledge of the battle would give it a solid 3/5. The two biggest bug bears for me were the total omission of US fighter operations of any kind and Jap super AA that shot down about 30 SBDs alone whilst in real life it was 2 or 3.


The fighter thing is weird (disappointing) because it was the first time Cmdr. Thach tried his "Weave"...note he was a character in the 1976 film, tho IIRC the Weave was not shown.



Miller -> RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? (11/9/2019 10:23:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Elessar2


quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

I think anyone with little or no knowledge of the battle would give it a solid 3/5. The two biggest bug bears for me were the total omission of US fighter operations of any kind and Jap super AA that shot down about 30 SBDs alone whilst in real life it was 2 or 3.


The fighter thing is weird (disappointing) because it was the first time Cmdr. Thach tried his "Weave"...note he was a character in the 1976 film, tho IIRC the Weave was not shown.


It would have been nice to see a two minute dogfight over Midway and then another involving Thach fight, but I guess it would have cost a few more million $ in CGI costs so they didn't bother.



Challerain -> RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? (11/10/2019 1:03:59 AM)

I really liked it. Well worth th time and money for me.



AcePylut -> RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? (11/10/2019 2:16:19 AM)

Just got back from Terminator with my 14 year old. We enjoyed it.



Rob322 -> RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? (11/10/2019 4:36:26 AM)

Looks fun, the wife and I are going tomorrow. We don't really expect much in terms of "accuracy", it is a Roland Emmerich film after all. That said, we enjoy movies, even if they're bad. It's something to laugh about afterwards.



Kursk1943 -> RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? (11/10/2019 6:48:48 AM)

I saw "Midway" yesterday and I liked it. Maybe because I didn't expect a historical documentary but a good old Hollywood action movie. I liked it better than the 1976 movie. Especially the Japanese side was well described.
I have to contradict Macclan5: Spruance was not just standing around, he:
- insisted on a detailed intelligence information at the briefing in Pearl as basis for hhis planning process,
- made the crucial decision to scratch together all available planes to get Hiryu,
- made the crucial decision to retire to the west to avoid a night engagement with the superior Japanese surface forces.

Okay, there was an overload of explosions and exploding planes - but that's seems to be necessary nowadays to be able to compete with all the other action movies out there in order to attract also a younger audience and not only us old farths...[:)] (Half ot the audience were young people, the other half old guys with their wifes).
For me it was good entertainment with a topic I'm interested in.
I was not distracted by unhhistorical nitty gritty, maybe because I have been a tanker, not a pilot or a sailor and only know about any details by reading books.
And, in my opinion, to like a movie or not mostly depends on your personal taste, similar to like or dislike food, fashion, hairstyle, literature, music...



witpqs -> RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? (11/10/2019 5:39:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kursk1943

I saw "Midway" yesterday and I liked it. Maybe because I didn't expect a historical documentary but a good old Hollywood action movie. I liked it better than the 1976 movie. Especially the Japanese side was well described.
I have to contradict Macclan5: Spruance was not just standing around, he:
- insisted on a detailed intelligence information at the briefing in Pearl as basis for hhis planning process,
- made the crucial decision to scratch together all available planes to get Hiryu,
- made the crucial decision to retire to the west east to avoid a night engagement with the superior Japanese surface forces.

Okay, there was an overload of explosions and exploding planes - but that's seems to be necessary nowadays to be able to compete with all the other action movies out there in order to attract also a younger audience and not only us old farths...[:)] (Half ot the audience were young people, the other half old guys with their wifes).
For me it was good entertainment with a topic I'm interested in.
I was not distracted by unhhistorical nitty gritty, maybe because I have been a tanker, not a pilot or a sailor and only know about any details by reading books.
And, in my opinion, to like a movie or not mostly depends on your personal taste, similar to like or dislike food, fashion, hairstyle, literature, music...




Kursk1943 -> RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? (11/10/2019 6:16:58 PM)

Thanks for the correction! Sometimes I also have this problem with left and right...



rustysi -> RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? (11/10/2019 6:41:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

The Movie That Shall Not Be Named

There are only two things the Forum unanimously agrees upon. This is the best game ever and that is the worst movie ever.



The important stuff.[:D]



rustysi -> RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? (11/10/2019 6:49:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Thanks to your warning, I've never seen Indianapolis: Men of Courage. You saved me from having to un-see it. [&o]


Same here. Did't even bother to watch it on cable. Unfortunately I didn't do the same with TMTSNBN, I watched it on cable. Nearly canceled my subscription after that.



CaptDave -> RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? (11/10/2019 11:08:10 PM)

Went to see the movie this morning (early bird rate of $7.50, compared to $10.50 normal price -- didn't think the latter would be worth it based on other reviews, and I was right). Here's the review I posted elsewhere. Keep in mind that I don't know as much about this battle as I do some others, except in general terms, and I've always been much more interested in submarines rather than war aircraft, so I don't even address some of the technicalities that mean so much to so many in this forum.

-----

Movie Review: Midway

Being the World War II geek that I am, I went to see the new Midway movie this morning. Here are my impressions.

The story line was good. In an all-too-rare occurrence, historical facts were pretty reasonably accurate. There has to be some dramatization, of course, but it wasn't distracting.

Similarly, the underlying love story(ies) didn't distract from the rest of the film, as I understand they did in what the wargaming community calls The Movie That Shall Not Be Named (based on the events of 12/7/41). On the other hand, I don't think it added anything, either.

The dialog was a bit insipid and anachronistic quite a bit of the time. Several phrases were used that hadn't come into the lexicon by that time, and other parts were just plain lame. Those of you familiar with "Singing in the Rain" might recall, as I did, the line after the last premier -- "did somebody actually get paid to write that dialogue?".

Some reviews have said the director has never met a special effect he didn't like. Unfortunately, in this movie I met a *lot* of special effects that I didn't like. The air battle scenes were completely laughable and unrealistic. At least there weren't any recycled stock films of B-17s making gear-up landings, as in the 1976 movie of the same name.

The one thing I'm not sure about is how well the various characters were portrayed -- that is, I don't know whether they were in character for the real person. I suspect they were portrayed within reason, but have no real basis for comparison.

This was no "Tora! Tora! Tora!", my standard for purportedly historic war films, but then few are. I'd give it 7 of 10 stars; worth seeing if you can get an early bird price, personal choice at normal price, and not worth paying any premium whatsoever.



AcePylut -> RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? (11/10/2019 11:28:03 PM)

One of my classmates went and saw it with her two kids (age 15 and 12). They are not WW2 buffs. This was their review:

"The kids and I just saw the movie “Midway” and absolutely loved it! It brought tears to our eyes and made us appreciate the military even more. We owe so much to the veterans and active military for the freedom we enjoy every day in this country. Happy Veterans Day!"



AcePylut -> RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? (11/10/2019 11:29:49 PM)

My 14 year old cried at the end of Terminator Dark Fate. She's going to bawl her eyes out during Midway.



pmelheck1 -> RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? (11/11/2019 12:46:27 AM)

I enjoyed it even with it's savaging by reviewers. As others stated if you ignore the video game quality of graphics which were not the worst i've seen by far they. And as others have stated they did get a lot of the small details right. The Doolittle raid did make me think of the raider toast at the Air Force academy. For giggles if reviews reported the battle


Midway Island Demolished. Yorktown, destroyer sunk.
Many US planes lost
June 7, 1942
The United States Navy suffered another blow in its attempt to stem the Japanese juggernaut ravaging the Pacific Ocean. Midway Island, perhaps the most vital U.S. outpost, was pummeled by Japanese Naval aviators. The defending U.S. forces, consisting primarily of antique Buffalo fighters, were competely wiped out while the Japanese attackers suffered few, if any, losses.
In a nearby naval confrontation, the Japanese successfully attacked the Yorktown which was later sunk by a Japanese submarine. A destroyer lashed to the Yorktown was also sunk.

American forces claim to have sunk four Japanese carriers and the cruiser Mogami but those claims were vehemently denied by the Emporer's spokeman.

The American carriers lost an entire squadron of torpedo planes when they failed to link up with fighter escorts. The dive bombers had fighter escort even though they weren't engaged by enemy fighters. The War Dept. refused to answer when asked why the fighters were assigned to the wrong attack groups. The Hornet lost a large number of planes when they couldn't locate the enemy task force. Despite this cavalcade of errors, Admirals Fletcher and Spruance have not been removed.

Code Broken
The failure at Midway is even more disheartening because the U.S. Navy knew the Japanese were coming. Secret documents provided to the NY Times showed that "Magic" intercepts showed the Japanese planned to attack Midway, which they called "AF".

Obsolete Equipment
Some critics blamed the failure at Midway on the use of obsolete aircraft. The inappropriately named Devastator torpedo planes proved no match for the Japanese fighters. Even the Avengers, its schedule replacements, were riddled with bullets and rendered unflyable. Secretary of War Stimson dodged the question saying simply: "You go to war with the Navy you have, not the Navy you want or would like to have". Critics immediately called for his resignation.




Erik Rutins -> RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? (11/12/2019 2:15:54 AM)

I saw Midway today and have to say I enjoyed it and thought it was worth seeing for any WWII Pacific buff. Definitely a good effort. No Hollywood movie will be perfect but the at times overdone visuals aside, this was much more historically accurate than I expected and it covers much more ground than just the Battle of Midway. I would recommend seeing it in the theater.



AcePylut -> RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? (11/12/2019 12:18:56 PM)

One more detail that they got right..... that you wouldn't expect....

Everyone in the movie smokes.



Trugrit -> RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? (11/12/2019 12:36:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

I saw Midway today and have to say I enjoyed it and thought it was worth seeing for any WWII Pacific buff. Definitely a good effort. No Hollywood movie will be perfect but the at times overdone visuals aside, this was much more historically accurate than I expected and it covers much more ground than just the Battle of Midway. I would recommend seeing it in the theater.


Alright, you have convinced me. Darn it!

I'm going to go see it today at 12:30.




John 3rd -> RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? (11/12/2019 1:14:29 PM)

Posted this on the other thread but here is my boys and I's thoughts:

Saw the film with my sons last night (Sunday). I WANT to give the show better marks then I will. The film was much more accurate then TMTSNBN and the actual battle reflects the recent scholarship of Shattered Sword. The dense packed Japanese TF was ludicrous, Doolittle Raid was horse-hooey, the intense Japanese AA fire shooting down dozens of planes--STUPID, and not a single scene with an American Fighter in it.

Reactions from my almost 16-year old son:
1. My eldest re-acted to the spotting of the Kido Butai just before the dive-bombing as--WAIT I see Yamato and Musashi in there!--he was right.
2. There was no emotion or connection to the characters. Only time it got exciting--according to him--was when the DB dove on Hiryu and the music really kicked in.
3. Perhaps in blastphemy, John stated that the action scenes were more connecting to him in TMTSNBN then this. He felt there was no drama when there should have been LOTS!
4. He really liked that the Marshalls Raid was included.

My GOOD thoughts:
1. The effects were GREAT! The ships came alive. Seeing the Enterprise, Japanese CVs, and Yamato was damned near worth the ticket by themselves.
2. The accuracy of seeing only Fighters on the Japanese decks (no Fuchida crap here) and watching how Best and his wingmen shifted from Kaga to Akagi was well done and corrected the historical record.
3. Agree that the performances of Harrelson and Quaid for Nimitz and Halsey were quite good. Liked Layton's performance as well.

It is eye candy and better then you know what but the film is a mixed bag. Go see the special effects. Try to avoid stroking out on other issues!

Give the film a solid C.



Alpha77 -> RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? (11/12/2019 3:06:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Thanks to your warning, I've never seen Indianapolis: Men of Courage. You saved me from having to un-see it. [&o]


Same here. Did't even bother to watch it on cable. Unfortunately I didn't do the same with TMTSNBN, I watched it on cable. Nearly canceled my subscription after that.


Also did not bother - however it reminds me that Nic Cage ("back in the days") were in some good movies and delivered fine performances. Eg. 8mm and Lords Of War come to mind, check this scene here for example. Very well played imho by both:

Lord Of War - Interrogation Scene:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTK8torOylM

Also I found the movie "Margin Call" (about stock/housing market crash so a bit OT but this one is good), lots of good actors. Check this scene (mostly movies are better without needless action, cgi or heroism):

Margin Call (2011) - Senior Partners Emergency Meeting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hhy7JUinlu0



fcooke -> RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? (11/12/2019 3:57:43 PM)

Ah crud, enough forum mates have given it at least a C and the better half is currently in London. But bombing Yamato and Musashi? I think Yamato was a few hundred miles out of range...and Musahi might have been still on the slip.....

But kudos on ship ID.

edited to correct half to have.



Trugrit -> RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? (11/12/2019 8:18:55 PM)


I just got back from the theater.

I would have to give it a low "B" just because it stands above the poor quality
of recent films and it did not have a ton of mushy scenes.

Good enough. I recommend it.



Barb -> RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? (11/13/2019 2:22:01 PM)

Ah,crap guys.. they are releasing it on the 14th here... Hope to see it next week with an open mind.



obvert -> RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? (11/13/2019 4:01:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Posted this on the other thread but here is my boys and I's thoughts:

Saw the film with my sons last night (Sunday). I WANT to give the show better marks then I will. The film was much more accurate then TMTSNBN and the actual battle reflects the recent scholarship of Shattered Sword. The dense packed Japanese TF was ludicrous, Doolittle Raid was horse-hooey, the intense Japanese AA fire shooting down dozens of planes--STUPID, and not a single scene with an American Fighter in it.

Reactions from my almost 16-year old son:
1. My eldest re-acted to the spotting of the Kido Butai just before the dive-bombing as--WAIT I see Yamato and Musashi in there!--he was right.
2. There was no emotion or connection to the characters. Only time it got exciting--according to him--was when the DB dove on Hiryu and the music really kicked in.
3. Perhaps in blastphemy, John stated that the action scenes were more connecting to him in TMTSNBN then this. He felt there was no drama when there should have been LOTS!
4. He really liked that the Marshalls Raid was included.

My GOOD thoughts:
1. The effects were GREAT! The ships came alive. Seeing the Enterprise, Japanese CVs, and Yamato was damned near worth the ticket by themselves.
2. The accuracy of seeing only Fighters on the Japanese decks (no Fuchida crap here) and watching how Best and his wingmen shifted from Kaga to Akagi was well done and corrected the historical record.
3. Agree that the performances of Harrelson and Quaid for Nimitz and Halsey were quite good. Liked Layton's performance as well.

It is eye candy and better then you know what but the film is a mixed bag. Go see the special effects. Try to avoid stroking out on other issues!

Give the film a solid C.


After the trailers I just don't know if I can do it. The massed diving attacks, the tightly packed ships, the street level strafing runs, the 100ft high drop altitudes, the stupid aerobatics of the SBDs (like the stall and dive moment). Arrrgggg. Why???!!![:@]

How hard is it (and how much more simple really from a CGI/cost perspective) to make it more accurate? More sparse? More dramatically tense? I just don't get why a film has to look and be paced like a video game for the studio to think it's going to make money. Film-making has become so much about over dramatisation, and it's one reason I'm so much more into TV series at the moment.

I don't think I can do it. I want to, but I know I'll throw something, curse loudly, gyrate and flail, and generally annoy anyone near me. (Not that I mind for them really, but it won't be comfortable for me either).

My downfall is that in addition to caring a bit about the portrayal of this period I also teach film-making. Double difficulty.



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