RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? (Full Version)

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BBfanboy -> RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? (11/13/2019 4:05:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Posted this on the other thread but here is my boys and I's thoughts:

Saw the film with my sons last night (Sunday). I WANT to give the show better marks then I will. The film was much more accurate then TMTSNBN and the actual battle reflects the recent scholarship of Shattered Sword. The dense packed Japanese TF was ludicrous, Doolittle Raid was horse-hooey, the intense Japanese AA fire shooting down dozens of planes--STUPID, and not a single scene with an American Fighter in it.

Reactions from my almost 16-year old son:
1. My eldest re-acted to the spotting of the Kido Butai just before the dive-bombing as--WAIT I see Yamato and Musashi in there!--he was right.
2. There was no emotion or connection to the characters. Only time it got exciting--according to him--was when the DB dove on Hiryu and the music really kicked in.
3. Perhaps in blastphemy, John stated that the action scenes were more connecting to him in TMTSNBN then this. He felt there was no drama when there should have been LOTS!
4. He really liked that the Marshalls Raid was included.

My GOOD thoughts:
1. The effects were GREAT! The ships came alive. Seeing the Enterprise, Japanese CVs, and Yamato was damned near worth the ticket by themselves.
2. The accuracy of seeing only Fighters on the Japanese decks (no Fuchida crap here) and watching how Best and his wingmen shifted from Kaga to Akagi was well done and corrected the historical record.
3. Agree that the performances of Harrelson and Quaid for Nimitz and Halsey were quite good. Liked Layton's performance as well.

It is eye candy and better then you know what but the film is a mixed bag. Go see the special effects. Try to avoid stroking out on other issues!

Give the film a solid C.


After the trailers I just don't know if I can do it. The massed diving attacks, the tightly packed ships, the street level strafing runs, the 100ft high drop altitudes, the stupid aerobatics of the SBDs (like the stall and dive moment). Arrrgggg. Why???!!![:@]

How hard is it (and how much more simple really from a CGI/cost perspective) to make it more accurate? More sparse? More dramatically tense? I just don't get why a film has to look and be paced like a video game for the studio to think it's going to make money. Film-making has become so much about over dramatisation, and it's one reason I'm so much more into TV series at the moment.

I don't think I can do it. I want to, but I know I'll throw something, curse loudly, gyrate and flail, and generally annoy anyone near me. (Not that I mind for them really, but it won't be comfortable for me either).

My downfall is that in addition to caring a bit about the portrayal of this period I also teach film-making. Double difficulty.

Oh good! Can we expect a remake of the film - Midway: Obvert's Cut ? [sm=innocent0001.gif]


[image]local://upfiles/35791/2DF2A7C9D72B4128B2ECE3E12D0C2634.gif[/image]



fcooke -> RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? (11/13/2019 4:11:12 PM)

Now - that would be cool.....

One of the things I was responsible before I retired was the group that put together marketing materials, presentations, videos, etc. The team was REALLY good. Every time I saw a powerpoint presentation with just a list of bullet points - either from internal clients or external sales folk, it made me cringe. So I feel Obvert's pain.....



Canoerebel -> RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? (11/13/2019 5:12:07 PM)

+1

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

After the trailers I just don't know if I can do it. The massed diving attacks, the tightly packed ships, the street level strafing runs, the 100ft high drop altitudes, the stupid aerobatics of the SBDs (like the stall and dive moment). Arrrgggg. Why???!!![:@]

How hard is it (and how much more simple really from a CGI/cost perspective) to make it more accurate? More sparse? More dramatically tense? I just don't get why a film has to look and be paced like a video game for the studio to think it's going to make money. Film-making has become so much about over dramatisation, and it's one reason I'm so much more into TV series at the moment.

I don't think I can do it. I want to, but I know I'll throw something, curse loudly, gyrate and flail, and generally annoy anyone near me. (Not that I mind for them really, but it won't be comfortable for me either).

My downfall is that in addition to caring a bit about the portrayal of this period I also teach film-making. Double difficulty.




AcePylut -> RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? (11/13/2019 7:14:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

After the trailers I just don't know if I can do it. The massed diving attacks, the tightly packed ships, the street level strafing runs, the 100ft high drop altitudes, the stupid aerobatics of the SBDs (like the stall and dive moment). Arrrgggg. Why???!!![:@]

How hard is it (and how much more simple really from a CGI/cost perspective) to make it more accurate? More sparse? More dramatically tense? I just don't get why a film has to look and be paced like a video game for the studio to think it's going to make money. Film-making has become so much about over dramatisation, and it's one reason I'm so much more into TV series at the moment.

I don't think I can do it. I want to, but I know I'll throw something, curse loudly, gyrate and flail, and generally annoy anyone near me. (Not that I mind for them really, but it won't be comfortable for me either).

My downfall is that in addition to caring a bit about the portrayal of this period I also teach film-making. Double difficulty.


That part, I was actually happy to see, as we did use SBDs to augment CAP in the early days of the war. I ead about a few SBD vs zero encounters where the SBD pilots pulled stunts like this... so that didn't bother me... not as much as seeing a B25 blast through a wall of water on take-off, or that SBD's wingtip touching the sea.

IMHO the battle scenes and the dialogue were the bad parts... but from all the reviews I'm reading from my "non-WW2 grog" friends on Facebook, they all loved the movie.


It's not hard to make the flight dramatic and accurate. That's always been a big issue for me in "plane movies". I'd tell the CGI folks to watch about 200 hours worth of WW2 gun film and THEN make their battle like that. Or maybe go play Warthunder custom matches and record what goes on there, then put that on film. It's just as dramatic.

I mean, you can really use a "realistic" scene to drive up fear and fright.... imagine the camera right above the rear gunner in a TBD, and you see the zero coming at you, and the moviegoer has been told (or shown previously) that TBD's are sitting ducks and are going to die... then make it take like 30 seconds for the zero to 'slowly' get in gun range, and then the zero lights you up and the TBD dies, along with the character. Make sure to cue increasingly fateful dreadful music during this scene. Have that rear gunner be one of the minor characters that was being followed in the movie for some more dramatic "war is hell, people die" effect.

No need to have every plane explode in a giant ball of flame. Watch more gun film. Put THAT on screen, show the plane spiraling out of control and to the sea and exploding... kinda of like that C-47 that bit the dirt in the 2nd episode of Band of Brothers, during the drop on Normandy.

But I was still happy with the film. It's all a matter of expectations, and I expected TMTSNBN and this was immensely better. So... there's that.



tacticon -> RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? (11/14/2019 4:27:16 AM)

I think that the Midway way movie was well worth the price. I took my 12 old to it and he loved it. Thanks to public school he knew more about the plastic content of the Pacific Ocean then the wars fought over it. This movie was made for people like him, all action, less talking and lots special effects. If you were going to make a movie to please the formites, you might as well redo Victory at see but with CGI.

It’s a fact of life that the further away you get from an historical event, the less effort is made to learn it. Forget about Salamis, Lepento or Trafalgar. My kid his in a 7th grade history class doing a civil war unit and Hampton Roads is not even mentioned in the text. There will come a time when world war II will be down to a long paragraph. I wonder if Midway will even make the cut. If the Midway Movie is the best we are going to get to keep history alive, then go see it and take as many kids with you as you can.



CaptBeefheart -> RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? (11/14/2019 6:40:51 AM)

Looks like it hasn't hit the big screen here yet. You'd think a movie where the Japanese lost would be popular... unless they see it as a reminder that someone else liberated their country. Who knows?

If it does come to Korea, the beauty of the multiplex here is you don't have to sneak beer in--they sell it. That might make it a lot more enjoyable than what I saw in the trailer.

Cheers,
CB



fcooke -> RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? (11/14/2019 12:23:30 PM)

Enjoying a drink while enjoying a movie, play, music is a great thing. Readily doable when I lived in London. In the US....no. And the US is so over-regulated (at least in NY) that I once went to a store and bought some gin. I asked where I could find the tonic. They told me go to another store. They were only allowed to sell spirits/wine. No tonic, no limes. I cannot even fathom the logic in that regulation.

Rant off.



witpqs -> RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? (11/14/2019 1:00:54 PM)

I would pay to see Obvert's cut of any movie he's commented on!



L0ckAndL0ad -> RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? (11/14/2019 1:02:11 PM)

Just came back from the movie theater. Ugh...

I went with a friend, who doesn't know that much about the Pacific War, but has good general knowledge of the era, events and the equipment. He enjoyed it. I kinda did too... before the Battle of Midway started. B-26s dropping bombs was the last straw, and from there, I was just waiting till this whole mess was over.

I currently do a lot of research on carrier warfare. I KNOW how hard it is to get all the facts right, when you work with many different sources. But damn, was it really so hard to get the basics straight? I get the impression they packed all the budget into select few 3d models, special effects (TRACERS AND EXPLOSIONS EVERYWHERE), and actor paychecks.

Was it me or did they really portray sinking Lexington with Yorktown-class carrier in the Coral Sea?

And don't get me started on the script and actors. Dubbed audio (Russian) was cheesy as it always is, but I'm pretty sure the original was just as bad. None of the actors appealed to me. Some were outright irritating to watch (especially Best). No sense of agency from any of them whatsoever. Sad Alexander Ludwig did not get much screen time.

My verdict: F. Not recommended to watch.

ps: I saw "Tora! Tora! Tora!" (1970) for the first time just few days ago. Also "Mister Roberts" (1955). Re-watched "Midway" (1976). Will see "The Gallant Hours" soon as well. That's time well spent.



John 3rd -> RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? (11/14/2019 1:50:13 PM)

It was not you. That was a Yorktown-Class sinking at Coral Sea--not that Halsey and the Enterprise were actually there to see it!

Agree about the B-26 scene. WHERE were the B-17s? LJ (Little John) made the comment--WAIT...the B-26 carried Torps...RIGHT Dad? Kid knows his stuff...

Have never scene The Gallant Hours. Think I shall.



L0ckAndL0ad -> RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? (11/14/2019 2:07:59 PM)

Watching the 1976 movie yesterday, with all the wrong or reused footage, F6Fs, TBFs and Helldivers, USN battleship masts and other Tora Tora Tora inserts, it was still a much better experience, because of the actors. Actors were convincing. Perhaps not as much as they were in Tora Tora Tora, but still very solid performances.

Watching the 2019 movie today made me realize that no matter the inaccuracies, the actors' play is what matters the most. If it is not convincing, it'll feel flat regardless. Like the faces of the deck crews and pilots during the crash landing scene. That moment really showed how unconvinced the actors were about the whole thing. They barely flinched.

So, basically, I was ready to forgive all the errors. But errors + lousy actors play = F. Cannot forgive both.



Macclan5 -> RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? (11/14/2019 2:56:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: L0ckAndL0ad

Watching the 1976 movie yesterday, with all the wrong or reused footage, F6Fs, TBFs and Helldivers, USN battleship masts and other Tora Tora Tora inserts, it was still a much better experience, because of the actors. Actors were convincing. Perhaps not as much as they were in Tora Tora Tora, but still very solid performances.

Watching the 2019 movie today made me realize that no matter the inaccuracies, the actors' play is what matters the most. If it is not convincing, it'll feel flat regardless. Like the faces of the deck crews and pilots during the crash landing scene. That moment really showed how unconvinced the actors were about the whole thing. They barely flinched.

So, basically, I was ready to forgive all the errors. But errors + lousy actors play = F. Cannot forgive both.



Interesting perspective.

Actually for me it is not specifically the Actors.

I fully admit I do love Henry Fonda's portrayal of Nimitz for example - etc.

What the 76 Movie communicated much much better was "the absence of certainty". The Risk behind calculated risk. The tension of waiting - certain you are correct - but not 100% certain. The decisiveness of the one communique (whether entirely accurate or not) - "This is not main body repeat not main body. Expect Carrier Task Force to strike from the Northwest...."

My largest criticism of the movie the portray of certainty - bravado.





obvert -> RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? (11/14/2019 3:38:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Posted this on the other thread but here is my boys and I's thoughts:

Saw the film with my sons last night (Sunday). I WANT to give the show better marks then I will. The film was much more accurate then TMTSNBN and the actual battle reflects the recent scholarship of Shattered Sword. The dense packed Japanese TF was ludicrous, Doolittle Raid was horse-hooey, the intense Japanese AA fire shooting down dozens of planes--STUPID, and not a single scene with an American Fighter in it.

Reactions from my almost 16-year old son:
1. My eldest re-acted to the spotting of the Kido Butai just before the dive-bombing as--WAIT I see Yamato and Musashi in there!--he was right.
2. There was no emotion or connection to the characters. Only time it got exciting--according to him--was when the DB dove on Hiryu and the music really kicked in.
3. Perhaps in blastphemy, John stated that the action scenes were more connecting to him in TMTSNBN then this. He felt there was no drama when there should have been LOTS!
4. He really liked that the Marshalls Raid was included.

My GOOD thoughts:
1. The effects were GREAT! The ships came alive. Seeing the Enterprise, Japanese CVs, and Yamato was damned near worth the ticket by themselves.
2. The accuracy of seeing only Fighters on the Japanese decks (no Fuchida crap here) and watching how Best and his wingmen shifted from Kaga to Akagi was well done and corrected the historical record.
3. Agree that the performances of Harrelson and Quaid for Nimitz and Halsey were quite good. Liked Layton's performance as well.

It is eye candy and better then you know what but the film is a mixed bag. Go see the special effects. Try to avoid stroking out on other issues!

Give the film a solid C.


After the trailers I just don't know if I can do it. The massed diving attacks, the tightly packed ships, the street level strafing runs, the 100ft high drop altitudes, the stupid aerobatics of the SBDs (like the stall and dive moment). Arrrgggg. Why???!!![:@]

How hard is it (and how much more simple really from a CGI/cost perspective) to make it more accurate? More sparse? More dramatically tense? I just don't get why a film has to look and be paced like a video game for the studio to think it's going to make money. Film-making has become so much about over dramatisation, and it's one reason I'm so much more into TV series at the moment.

I don't think I can do it. I want to, but I know I'll throw something, curse loudly, gyrate and flail, and generally annoy anyone near me. (Not that I mind for them really, but it won't be comfortable for me either).

My downfall is that in addition to caring a bit about the portrayal of this period I also teach film-making. Double difficulty.

Oh good! Can we expect a remake of the film - Midway: Obvert's Cut ? [sm=innocent0001.gif]


[image]local://upfiles/35791/2DF2A7C9D72B4128B2ECE3E12D0C2634.gif[/image]


If only I could!! [:D]



L0ckAndL0ad -> RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? (11/14/2019 4:04:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Macclan5

Interesting perspective.

Actually for me it is not specifically the Actors.

I fully admit I do love Henry Fonda's portrayal of Nimitz for example - etc.

What the 76 Movie communicated much much better was "the absence of certainty". The Risk behind calculated risk. The tension of waiting - certain you are correct - but not 100% certain. The decisiveness of the one communique (whether entirely accurate or not) - "This is not main body repeat not main body. Expect Carrier Task Force to strike from the Northwest...."

My largest criticism of the movie the portray of certainty - bravado.


Well, it is hard for me to pinpoint exactly what is the key ingredient. I guess it is a combination of a good script (scene structure and dialogues) and actor's play.

Taking 2019 Midway as an example. Doolittle Raid scene. They come out to see B-25s, surprised as if the planes just magically appeared there out of thin air the moments before they need to take off. Or that scene where Guido jumps into the plane to use the turret and moments later gets a promotion because he's the braves person ever seen. That just feels completely unnatural, just as the aerobatics shown.

You make great point about certainty and bravado.

"Tora! Tora! Tora!" is even a greater example here. I think the script and actor's performances are one of the best I've ever seen, actually. So Yamamura (Yamamoto) and James Whitmore (Halsey) were my favorites. Halsey, even with all aggressive and roughneck attitude he walks and talks, he is still very much concerned, as everyone else around him, about what is to come. He is dead serious. Yamamura's majestic performance is also portrayed with mindful/thoughtful poker face, contrasted by the occasional laughter or anger.

None is certain of what is to come. No one dimensional, contrived, railroaded acting. Good stuff.



obvert -> RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? (11/14/2019 4:06:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AcePylut

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

After the trailers I just don't know if I can do it. The massed diving attacks, the tightly packed ships, the street level strafing runs, the 100ft high drop altitudes, the stupid aerobatics of the SBDs (like the stall and dive moment). Arrrgggg. Why???!!![:@]



That part, I was actually happy to see, as we did use SBDs to augment CAP in the early days of the war. I ead about a few SBD vs zero encounters where the SBD pilots pulled stunts like this... so that didn't bother me... not as much as seeing a B25 blast through a wall of water on take-off, or that SBD's wingtip touching the sea.

It's not hard to make the flight dramatic and accurate. That's always been a big issue for me in "plane movies". I'd tell the CGI folks to watch about 200 hours worth of WW2 gun film and THEN make their battle like that. Or maybe go play Warthunder custom matches and record what goes on there, then put that on film. It's just as dramatic.



Not only watch footage, but go to an air show. Look at what this era of planes do, how they do it in particular ways, and how they sound as well. At least from the trailer I don't even like the engine effects.

The SBD stall with an A6M barely missing it while bursting through a cloud is one of those things that is wrong on so many levels. Firstly, that move would be done to turn the table on a following plane or gain a higher position for a dive, not to avoid a plane diving from above. Secondly the stall is too fast, too smooth and doesn't have that beautiful moment in it where stillness returns to motion and the pane goes from heavy to light and controllable. Thirdly, film it from a bit of distance first, let us see the playing field, the entire manoeuvre in space, then zoom for a close shot at the top, then change to a POV as it turns to the fall.

The film-making is just poorly conceived, and I don't have to see more than a few moments to tell me that.

Sure, it's great that it works enough that kids will experience the period and importance of this battle.

Just watched a few clips from Hurricane/303 Squadron/Mission of Honour (2018) which I remember being impressed by for the flying scenes. I feel like they got it much closer to right. There are some moments that make you feel it like you're there; like when a pilot is just flying, looking, and bullets slam into his plane and injure him while knocking out his engine and he's forced to bail from a burning wreck gyrating down through the air. Calm beauty to chaos and pain.

The flying actually looks like someone knew planes and how they moved, how a BF-109 moves differently to a Hurry to a Spit. Shrapnel hitting after a gun burst and oil spraying on the front glass. But also beautiful soaring aerobatic flight. Done well.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7515456/



AcePylut -> RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? (11/14/2019 4:59:15 PM)

Oh yeah the CGI flight was sub-par to say the least. I didn't expect anything more, though, so I guess that didn't disappoint me. At the very beginning, one of the SBD's did a cross control stall to lose alt, and that was really cool and right and "yup, that's what I would do" and made me think "well maybe this won't be TMTSNBN".... then there was that silly "jumpup and slam on the deck" landing so oh well.

IMHO any movie that has "realistic flight" is "good" in my book, no matter how "bad" the movie might be, and that's a judgement on how awful flight is typically portrayed since the advent of computer graphics.

That's why the Owen Wilson vehicle "Behind Enemy Lines" gets props from me. They showed an F18 doing a barrel roll, that actually was a barrel roll and not some "insta-spin around the axis" that you normally get.



fcooke -> RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? (11/14/2019 7:04:35 PM)

Nothing quite like seeing the birds at an actual airshow. I miss being able to go to Duxford and seeing nearly 50 WW2 birds in a massive flypast, including about a dozen Spits of various types. And I think the SallyB is the last flying fort in Europe (and I guess that means outside the US).

Was at an airshow on this side of the Atlantic in the summer. Only 1 WW2 plane, a B-25 that you could buy a $500 odd ticket for a 20 min hop. That said they did have 3 really good demo teams. Blue Angels, Red Arrows and a group of Texans whose team name eludes me (so I guess in fairness more than the B-25 was WW2 era) But those team pilots are certifiable (crazy). I kept expecting them to hit each other, but they did not. There was an F-35 as well. Not a fan of that particular development program but she could do some interesting things in the sky.

But getting the engine noise should not be hard - just hit record on whatever device.....

Now I need to figure out a way to get to Oshkosh



CaptBeefheart -> RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? (11/15/2019 7:01:40 AM)

I'm up for Kickstarting Obvert's version. Who's with me?

Aviation movies have not been well served by CGI. I'd rather see real airplanes fly even if the numbers are few and the markings and models don't exactly match (thinking of "Baa Baa Black Sheep" here). That scene when the whole squadron of B-25s takes off in "Catch-22" can't be beat by some CGI crap flying physically impossible flight profiles.

Cheers,
CB



adarbrauner -> RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? (11/15/2019 9:56:55 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AcePylut



This movie was imho a lot better than the '76 Midway movie.



If it was better than the 76 movie, then is pretty good

quote:

ORIGINAL: AcePylut
even though it would seem like “typical Hollywood schmock” to anyone else



Schmock??!!??[X(]
[X(][X(][X(]

quote:

ORIGINAL: AcePylut
Me, I wanted to jump up and yell, “That’s right mutha-f**kers, that’s what you get for f**king with us!” LOL.


Hey man, you've an A6M as avatar! Show your true colors, you imposter 5th column!
and remember, Midway was an unfair affair, it should have ended exactly with the reversed results, if not that the Almighty arranged things in a way that the intelligence would read the Jap communication without them taking notice (impossible) (same thing for the ETO);



Alpha77 -> RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? (11/15/2019 10:05:29 AM)

Found 3 reviews at YT, 2 of them from "historical" content channels, they found it "ok" with the usual flaws. The 3rd one was a "non historic" guy who admitted that he very much liked Independence Day by the same director. He gave it 7.5/10. I do not even know most of the actors lol.

Btw. I was at a small airshow where mostly prop planes were shown, only 40km from me so a sure deal to see it. Main attraction was a P51D. However I liked the 2 T6 trainers more - those were used as stand in Kates btw. in some movie (Tora Tora Tora?). The T6 sounded at least better then the P51 for my taste. Here a pic:



Alpha77 -> RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? (11/15/2019 10:09:45 AM)

Here the blue T6. There was also a white one with USA markings, I found it had the registration number D-FUKK.... and small written on it was "**** you Greta" [;)]

In the background on the hill you can see a mast which belongs to the Nato installations in the area. There is also a huge command bunker, a big radar and the Luftwaffe barracks on the other hill were I served in the early 90s. It is named "CRC" aka „Control and Reporting Center“:



fcooke -> RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? (11/15/2019 12:06:46 PM)

I'm all in for helping kick start Obvert's film.

When I was younger I loved watching Baa Baa. I think most of those planes came from South American AF. But to see 5 or 6 real Corsairs in the air - priceless. I begged and pleaded with my Mom to let me watch (I think it came on at 9pm). I had to make believe I went to bed and then slip out after my brother and sister fell asleep - three kids sharing one bedroom - the horror. Probably get arrested for that today.

Love the registration story



AcePylut -> RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? (11/15/2019 12:10:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner


quote:

ORIGINAL: AcePylut



This movie was imho a lot better than the '76 Midway movie.



If it was better than the 76 movie, then is pretty good

quote:

ORIGINAL: AcePylut
even though it would seem like “typical Hollywood schmock” to anyone else



Schmock??!!??[X(]
[X(][X(][X(]

quote:

ORIGINAL: AcePylut
Me, I wanted to jump up and yell, “That’s right mutha-f**kers, that’s what you get for f**king with us!” LOL.


Hey man, you've an A6M as avatar! Show your true colors, you imposter 5th column!
and remember, Midway was an unfair affair, it should have ended exactly with the reversed results, if not that the Almighty arranged things in a way that the intelligence would read the Jap communication without them taking notice (impossible) (same thing for the ETO);


LOL - when I was 4, my dad took my older brother and I to see Midway. The very next day, we begged dad to buy us a plastic airplane model so to assemble. He got me a Zero, and my brother an Me109.

That was all it took. That started our lifelong love of aviation. That zero became my first love.

My very first hero ever, was "Hirachi" the Japanese pilot from The Black Sheep Squadron. I wanted to BE that "riceball drinking rice-wine Hirachi."

But I'm a US Citizen first, so the 1941-1945 Japanese can eff off for all I care.

Also, when I was 5 or 6 I read the story about Nick Jonas’s character Bruno Gaido’s fate. That day I lost a lot of innocence. I knew that people died in war, I knew that the whole point of war was killing the enemy, but I always said “they were just trying to win for their side, it’s not like anyone was evil or mean”. Then I read how he got tied up and tossed overboard and drowned. I stayed up for nights thinking about it. How awful it was. How terrible. How could they do that, he gave up, was a prisoner, couldn’t do anything. Why why why did they do that? How could they be so evil? This seriously stuck with me for years and years. I know, now, that people can be evil and do evil things, but that still act bothers me because it was the ‘first’ example I had of evil. So when that happened in the movie, a whole heck of a lot of emotions were brought to the forefront of my mind. It’s as if all those emotions and questions I had as a child came front and center again, as if I was that 5-6 year old boy. Not sure what it’s called, but it’s bad, like a suppressed memory of something terrible that has now resurfaced 40+ years later. So yeah, eff those mother effers.

But I love the Zero... it’s my favorite plane… and Hirachi was a good guy, he was just on the wrong side.


So basically, the reviews go like this: WW2 Grogs, Aviation Enthusiasts give the move at best, a “C”. Everyone on my fb feed that’s not a grog, is giving it an A+. I think the movie is going to do well this weekend, simply from word of mouth. Good.





Alpha77 -> RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? (11/15/2019 1:54:26 PM)

A bit OT (or not as the T6 was used as Kate [;)])

I googled the "D-FUKK" registration number, and found the Pilot is named Juergen and belongs to the "banana republic airforce" (aka Bananenrepublik stand in for Bundesrepublik) here 2 pics of the white T6:

[image]http://www.banana-airforce.de/news/duxfordtng/bilder/jurgenan.jpg[/image]

[image]http://www.banana-airforce.de/t6/t6tornado/tornado-t6-4.jpg[/image]

Here a cool airshow video:

Planes of Fame 2018 "Pacific Theater flight": (no music!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlb7O3sIbeA

Edit, the ETO: "Planes of Fame 2019 '75th Aniversary D-Day flight':
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TE0LASIVVTE

(and I know that the FW190 has not the original engine...it has a Russian one IIRC)



fcooke -> RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? (11/15/2019 2:49:28 PM)

Very cool. Thought I saw a Tigercat on the tarmac but not in the air. It is an impressive plane in the air. Have never seen an SBD in the air. Maybe one day. The TBF amazes me. The things are huge. How pilots were able to plant those things on CVEs is just amazing.



Lovejoy -> RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? (11/15/2019 9:29:10 PM)

I saw it this afternoon, and I thought it was a pretty good movie. On an A-F scale, I'll give it a B. The dialogue could have been better, and there were the technical mistakes/inaccuracies that others have noted. For me, the most glaring oversight was the lack of mention of the F4Fs and fighter pilots. They played an important part in the battle, and should not have been omitted. I also think that they could have given more scree time to the Japanese attack on the US carriers.

CGI was decent; as I said of the trailers, the details of the ships were pretty accurate, but the CGI was a bit took unreal-looking for my tastes.

Final comment: I honestly think the film would have been much better as a 5-6 episode miniseries. The film covered a lot of history and had a lot of named characters, but trying to cram everything into 2.5 hours was a bit of a mistake. It tried to cover too much. I think this also made it difficult for the film to effectively do characterization for the main characters.

Finally final comment: I don't think that Midway (2019) is TMTSNBN II. It may have some faults, but Roland Emmerich made a way better movie than Michael Bay's shambles.



Chickenboy -> RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? (11/15/2019 10:47:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lovejoy

I saw it this afternoon, and I thought it was a pretty good movie. On an A-F scale, I'll give it a B. The dialogue could have been better, and there were the technical mistakes/inaccuracies that others have noted. For me, the most glaring oversight was the lack of mention of the F4Fs and fighter pilots. They played an important part in the battle, and should not have been omitted. I also think that they could have given more scree time to the Japanese attack on the US carriers.

CGI was decent; as I said of the trailers, the details of the ships were pretty accurate, but the CGI was a bit took unreal-looking for my tastes.

Final comment: I honestly think the film would have been much better as a 5-6 episode miniseries. The film covered a lot of history and had a lot of named characters, but trying to cram everything into 2.5 hours was a bit of a mistake. It tried to cover too much. I think this also made it difficult for the film to effectively do characterization for the main characters.

Finally final comment: I don't think that Midway (2019) is TMTSNBN II. It may have some faults, but Roland Emmerich made a way better movie than Michael Bay's shambles.


I agree, Lovejoy.

I saw the movie this afternoon. I was surprised how much of the movie dealt with historical events leading up to Midway. They covered Yamamoto's pre-war conundrum, Pearl Harbor, the Doolittle raid, Coral Sea and eventually Midway. Seven months of the shooting war in a short period of time. I almost feel as though some aspects of the battle of Midway were rushed: like the attack on the Yorktown you cited.

Some actors were better than others, but all were at least serviceable. Nimitz and Halsey were well cast (Harrelson and Quaid) as was Doolittle. The Japanese leadership was well cast too.

There were some annoyances that have already been cited by others: excessively effective Japanese AAA, stupid flight physics, lack of mention of any USN fighter coverage, and so forth. The attack on Pearl Harbor and some of the crew antics during the PH raid could have been shaved significantly in the name of brevity. Some dialogue was wooden and even stilted at times.

But the CGI ships were reasonably well done. Planes less so, but serviceable.

The movie did a more than decent job of telling the story of the events leading up to and the battle of Midway for a new generation of filmgoers. Kudos to those that brought kids to see the movie-whether lessons will be remembered from history will fall on the next generation moreso than mine. Bringing history alive for them is an important task. This movie did its part.

Overall grade: B-






geofflambert -> RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? (11/15/2019 10:54:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner





Schmock??!!??[X(]
[X(][X(][X(]




That's Yiddish for Schlock.



geofflambert -> RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? (11/15/2019 10:58:31 PM)

I haven't seen it. The only thing I think I've seen Dennis Quaid do well in is "The Right Stuff". His brother Randy is awesome, though. I would expect something at least good out of Woody. Did he not do well?



Chickenboy -> RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? (11/15/2019 11:01:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert
I would expect something at least good out of Woody. Did he not do well?


Like I sez above: he was fine.



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