RE: Encircled by Enemies (PBEM gwgardner vs Chocolino) (Full Version)

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Flaviusx -> RE: Encircled by Enemies (PBEM gwgardner vs Chocolino) (11/19/2019 11:22:51 AM)

Britain has to be played with great caution and reserve early on, imo. At least so far as ground units go. The Royal Navy may find opportunities to mess with the Axis.



gwgardner -> RE: Encircled by Enemies (PBEM gwgardner vs Chocolino) (11/19/2019 1:04:05 PM)

My only hope now is to hold out long enough to drain German resources, so that Barbarossa will be impossible in '41. I just have little confidence I can hold, unless my navy has some success blocking his reinforcements.

My success in North Africa now appears to be a complete and unneeded sideshow.

When Chocolino attacked Bulgaria, I was certain he was headed for Turkey. He still may do that, but I was caught completely off guard by his turn on the UK.



Chocolino -> RE: Encircled by Enemies (PBEM gwgardner vs Chocolino) (11/19/2019 5:35:16 PM)

Thanks for all the helpful comments and good advice.

From where I sit taking England is not a done deal at all - and for certain not quickly. The UK units have some staying power and are not like the Greek or Bulgarians. Depends also on how many reserves the English have up their sleeve. I think gwgardner has it spot on when he says (second half of sentence):

quote:

I just have little confidence I can hold, unless my navy has some success blocking his reinforcements.
.

And that is exactly what he is doing now as we will see.



Chocolino -> RE: Encircled by Enemies (PBEM gwgardner vs Chocolino) (11/19/2019 5:53:07 PM)

12-6-40

The Home Guard was there after all - the British put together a respectable line of defense alone the Bristol - Southampton railroad, cordoning off Cornwall. German units can however take Bristol harbor and one more hex.

British naval units have been seen of the coast of Portugal running at flank speed back to home waters. I assume it is the 2 CV carrier group last seen by the Italians near Corsica/Sardinia. But we are not sure of course.

Given the haphazard nature of the England enterprise, the German army has only a single corps sized unit it can ship to Plymouth as reinforcement this turn. Once the RN is back, German reinforcements will be trickier to ship in because of the ever present danger of naval interdiction.

However, a commando raid takes Hull on the east coast in the rear of the British line. (I don't remember if it was open already last turn or if the UK removed the unit in building the defense line). Unfortunately only divisional units could participate in this raid.

German paratroopers land near Nottingham and will hopefully link up with the forces in Hull. The purpose of this raid is to flush out any hidden defenders (build queue?) that now need to occupy the cities in the Midlands.

In Lybia (no pic this week) the British continue to pursue the Italians to Benghazi.

[image]local://upfiles/31316/1072906308D9426F849DDAC06F5E7104.jpg[/image]



Flaviusx -> RE: Encircled by Enemies (PBEM gwgardner vs Chocolino) (11/19/2019 7:03:16 PM)

For a completely off the cuff and unplanned offensive, this is turning out rather nicely. You've expended a grand total of 20 landing craft doing this. A splendid return on a minimal investment.

I would totally go all in on this. Pile on the panzers into the UK, and the luftwaffe too. Let Russia hang for a year.

If the Royal Navy wants to come to this party, why, bomb the crap out of it.



gwgardner -> RE: Encircled by Enemies (PBEM gwgardner vs Chocolino) (11/19/2019 7:38:32 PM)

Oh, the RN is coming to the party! After we refuel ....



Chocolino -> RE: Encircled by Enemies (PBEM gwgardner vs Chocolino) (11/20/2019 11:39:01 AM)

12-20-40

The British fought back Italian defenders from the hills around Benghazi and are now ready to take the next Italian town. The Italians seem unable to withstand.

[image]local://upfiles/31316/EA881E86840C44D78BCF1F0BD7AFBE63.jpg[/image]



Chocolino -> RE: Encircled by Enemies (PBEM gwgardner vs Chocolino) (11/20/2019 11:48:22 AM)

12-20-40

Because of upload size limitation I have to make 2 pics for England. In the south Germans can take Southampton which is also a level 9 harbor. But it will not be available as a supply source until it is free from enemy ZOC - if I understand the rules correctly.

3 of 5 British naval task forces are in this area alone interdicting supply and reinforcements. The Luftwaffe focuses on naval attacks instead of much needed ground support. But the bombers are not trained for this task and have poor results.

[image]local://upfiles/31316/B0DC9448CC6B48B7BC949DC5576B315C.jpg[/image]



Chocolino -> RE: Encircled by Enemies (PBEM gwgardner vs Chocolino) (11/20/2019 12:00:07 PM)

12-20-40

The Paratroopers have managed to link up with the secondary German beach head near Hull. Two more British task forces make sure they will receive only sparse supplies and essentially prevent fresh reinforcements. (I am not sure how high the risk actually is to ship a corps near the British defenders but interdiction must be likely. I assume it depends on the British TFs effectiveness. I am not sure if it depends of the closeness they pass each other or the weather)

The British manage to garrison all threatened cities - also with the aid of some Canadian friends. How many more land units can they deploy? Their reserves must be deeper than German HQ assumed.

[image]local://upfiles/31316/38A83C7198E14B1DB0E30671E81E70B8.jpg[/image]



Flaviusx -> RE: Encircled by Enemies (PBEM gwgardner vs Chocolino) (11/20/2019 12:19:06 PM)

Your bombers are fine. It's the weather that's the problem. You do not need dedicated naval bombers for this task.

The moment you get clear weather, bomb the RN to scrap. At the very least clear out everything within 5 hexes of Southampton and Plymouth. You should have every single bomber in the Luftwaffe in Northern France for this. Priority one. This is the game right here if you can do it. Heck, I would even send the Italians up here. They are not to be despised, the 2 tac bombers and dive bomber they start with are quite useful.

Everything else is a sideshow compared to overruning the UK. I will happily trade Libya for London. Frankly, I think the British player is bonkers for not stripping down the Med in the face of this emergency. What he has in the UK will NOT stop you if you go all in. This is a completely doable proposition. A half dozen or more panzer corps, plus plenty of infantry corps and the entire might of the Axis airpower will overwhelm Britain.

The sub could be problem to find, post patch. But surface vessels are dead meat.

This is assuming the subs are set to raider. If they are actually set to fleet, you can smoke them along with the rest of the RN.

You need to get an HQ in Britain ASAP, btw.



Flaviusx -> RE: Encircled by Enemies (PBEM gwgardner vs Chocolino) (11/20/2019 12:53:42 PM)

So far as Libya goes, the only thing that matters is Tripoli. It's a VP. The rest is expendable.

Your position in Benghazi is untenable. Pull back all the way to the port east of Tripoli. The logistics here are terrible for the British player. He will have serious problems supplying his forces here. It's a long ways from Benghazi. He will have to spend a fortune in trucks to keep anything supplied there.

A minor German contingent can stiffen the Italians in this area. Say, two infantry corps and an HQ. Don't even need panzers for this. Set it all to hold in this logistical desert and let him dash himself to pieces trying to crack it while Britain falls to the panzers.

You are going to lose the trash Italian infantry doing this, but whatever. Save the mobile units and the HQ. Maybe leave the infantry in Benghazi will hold order to cover your retreat. Let him waste his time on them while you set up your real position further west.




Chocolino -> RE: Encircled by Enemies (PBEM gwgardner vs Chocolino) (11/20/2019 6:11:14 PM)

quote:

Your bombers are fine. It's the weather that's the problem. You do not need dedicated naval bombers for this task.


Thanks - yes I did some tests and can confirm that the weather makes all the difference. I am wondering if it affects naval interdiction as well.

quote:

You need to get an HQ in Britain ASAP, btw.


Its sitting in port waiting for an opportune (safe) moment. May be a couple of turns.




Chocolino -> RE: Encircled by Enemies (PBEM gwgardner vs Chocolino) (11/20/2019 6:19:56 PM)

quote:

Your position in Benghazi is untenable.


I am not planning of holding it. But I thought about giving El Agheila a try.

quote:

A minor German contingent can stiffen the Italians in this area.


I was not planning on sending the DAK. But if the Italians continue to collapse I may change my mind and follow your advice.

Independent from the above I am also starting to worry about what the Soviets can do proactively come 1942. It seems a long way off but these turns go by like nothing. I understand they are free to act by then even if not attacked first. They may not be ready to strike at Poland but they have perhaps other painful (for me) options. Hence I am still considering a 1941 Barbarossa even with reduced forces and opening up the dreaded 2 front war.




Flaviusx -> RE: Encircled by Enemies (PBEM gwgardner vs Chocolino) (11/20/2019 6:29:47 PM)

I have playtested this Soviet thing! Solo only, but it's interesting.

The Soviets are not going to be quite as strong as you would think. They're going to have a ton of production, yeah. But there are problems.

They cannot build any infantry armies until they are actually at war. Nor will they get any of their massive reserves until they are at war.

The other big problem is they will be frozen at 35% experience levels until they are at war. This is abysmal. It's fully half what the Germans get intrinsically. Worse yet, many of their starting formations are well below this 35%. The stuff they start with is rocking 20-25%. It's a big army. A big garbage army. The Red Army learns best in the school of hard knocks.

When the German AI finally got around to declaring war on my Soviets in 1942, it did actually push me back and grab places like Riga and Minsk and Kiev before my lines solidified. Admittedly, this is the AI and I had it set at max levels to see what it could do. A human may or may not be able to do this with normal levels of play.

This AI spent all of 1941 doing a western campaign, Iberia and NA. It was basically unstoppable. The British got pushed all the way back to El Alamein before they could hold the Germans. The AI might be dumb, but it was so strong I couldn't come to grips with it in a stand up fight for quite some time.



Chocolino -> RE: Encircled by Enemies (PBEM gwgardner vs Chocolino) (11/20/2019 6:30:12 PM)

1-3-41

It is already 1941. German progress in England is slow. The Germans have also not enough troops to occupy all 3 cleared hexes safely. So they contend themselves with just one hex.

A British sub is lurking nearby. Since the weather was better air attacks could at least damage it. This may have distracted the British captain enough to let a German troop convoy pass unmolested.

[image]local://upfiles/31316/2F92852B10284618A380EE4CB1910C4A.jpg[/image]



Chocolino -> RE: Encircled by Enemies (PBEM gwgardner vs Chocolino) (11/20/2019 6:36:08 PM)

1-3-41

Near hull the British close in to contain the beach head (or worse). The paras take over port security. The two British TFs still guard all approaches to Hull.

[image]local://upfiles/31316/B776EB7BE1DA424EA315859990426476.jpg[/image]



Flaviusx -> RE: Encircled by Enemies (PBEM gwgardner vs Chocolino) (11/20/2019 6:36:16 PM)

Basically, your infantry *divisions* are going to be better than any infantry they have and able to give a good account of themselves even against their mech on the defense. You can hold the eastern front with a semi scratch force worst come to worst.

But the whole idea here is to wrap this UK thing up well before May of 1942. You should have plenty of time to complete this and have a fully prepared Barbarossa army for 1942. Indeed, a stronger one. You yourself will have time to build up.




Chocolino -> RE: Encircled by Enemies (PBEM gwgardner vs Chocolino) (11/20/2019 6:42:43 PM)

1-3-41

The British are in splendid shape in Lybia and drive the Italians westward (well - southward for now).

Helpful advisors have suggested to send in German troops to rectify the situation. But Il Duce considers this a slight to Italian honor and has refused any help so far.

Also overlooked to retreat the Italian tank one more hex to open up a retreat hex for the Benghazi garrison. Now it will surrender instead. That was simply bad play.

[image]local://upfiles/31316/282139CBB84E4250BDDD11696A2239F0.jpg[/image]



John B. -> RE: Encircled by Enemies (PBEM gwgardner vs Chocolino) (11/20/2019 8:41:04 PM)

here is the RAF? I would think it would be out hunting Germany resupply convoys. I'm impressed that Germany has enough shipping to keep what I count as about 17 divisions (assuming two divisions per corps) in combat supply in England even in the face of merchant shipping losses to the RN and still have shipping left over to bring in reinforcements. Does shipping get used up like supply trucks?



Chocolino -> RE: Encircled by Enemies (PBEM gwgardner vs Chocolino) (11/20/2019 9:03:55 PM)

quote:

Does shipping get used up like supply trucks?


I don't think shipping gets used up like trucks. The exception is "landing crafts" for amphibious operations. But there is a limit of regular sea transport that can be used per turn. This is similar to strategic rail transport.

According to the manual there is a small chance that transport points can get sunk if enemy supply is interdicted. However, this has not been the limiting factor so far. More limiting is rather overall supply levels.

There is a formula that you can use on how many units a port of a given size supports. What I do not know is if having captured multiple ports (e.g. Plymouth and Southampton) has a cumulative effect on supply. Perhaps somebody with a better understanding can answer this.

Edit: Just read that it does. Units use the nearest port for supply and use farther away ports if the nearest port is empty. However, if a port is too far away (even via rail) the effectiveness of the supply decreases - i.e. the units consume more supplies to represent loss.



Chocolino -> RE: Encircled by Enemies (PBEM gwgardner vs Chocolino) (11/20/2019 9:20:47 PM)

1-17-41

The ground is frozen and the Germans can insert a small wedge into the British line. All air attacks on the British ships are again useless because of the bad weather.

[image]local://upfiles/31316/287F0B9A6C7D403783E7FB0D7F91889F.jpg[/image]



Chocolino -> RE: Encircled by Enemies (PBEM gwgardner vs Chocolino) (11/20/2019 9:24:57 PM)

1-17-41

The Kriegsmarine was asked to clear the sea lanes to Hull and sailed in force. But bad weather prevented any major actions - our attack failed. Unfortunately the location is currently out of reach for our bombers.

[image]local://upfiles/31316/79A6E28473CA46C59A0967602924AECC.jpg[/image]



Chocolino -> RE: Encircled by Enemies (PBEM gwgardner vs Chocolino) (11/20/2019 9:28:09 PM)

1-17-41

The British capture Benghazi and the garrison surrendered (see above for why). The Italians fall further back to El Agheila.

[image]local://upfiles/31316/0BE5D2F697494355BEBFA0B440DD3D9F.jpg[/image]



Chocolino -> RE: Encircled by Enemies (PBEM gwgardner vs Chocolino) (11/21/2019 2:26:39 PM)

1-31-41

The weather was excellent and the Luftwaffe could finally step out of the shadow of their successful Italian counterparts and sink several capital ships in the English Channel that were interdicting supply and attacking airbases. Now it will be harder for the British to maintain their supply interdiction activities but I think the British had no choice than to risk these ships. They are no good in port.

The nosy German infantry corps that edged into the British lines was punished severely and driven back during the British turn - then sent to Bristol for garrison duty to recover (red-line).

Near Birmingham the British fell back behind the river line pro-actively.

[image]local://upfiles/31316/CBF77ABDDC4948B79CCDD96D9D84ECB4.jpg[/image]



Chocolino -> RE: Encircled by Enemies (PBEM gwgardner vs Chocolino) (11/21/2019 2:29:17 PM)

1-31-41

In Lybia the British are still in hot pursuit of the Italians who have now dug in near El Agheila. The RM did sail once more against the British before Tobruk but did not achieve anything.

It may be worth mentioning that the British did withdraw from Crete as well as from two Norwegian ports (Trondheim and Bergen). But they still keep a stranglehold on Narvik and prevent the shipment of 25PP during the winter months which is quite a lot since this is before the German multiplier is applied.

[image]local://upfiles/31316/9969798304E24B059BFD0FA1DB74D8A2.jpg[/image]



Chocolino -> RE: Encircled by Enemies (PBEM gwgardner vs Chocolino) (11/21/2019 5:29:45 PM)

2-14-41

The Germans follow the retreating British to the Thames - but don't dare with their run down Panzerkorps near London. Supplies would be fine but in this game ports were reduced occasionally from level 9 to 4 via interdiction (i.e. takes away 100 of 180 supply).

[image]local://upfiles/31316/75A4BBE8C04D4EA69DB09E4E363588D7.jpg[/image]



Chocolino -> RE: Encircled by Enemies (PBEM gwgardner vs Chocolino) (11/21/2019 5:31:41 PM)

2-14-41

There was also a major surface battle in the North Sea. Both sides took heavy losses - but only Germany lost a capital ship. (The Italian DDs were sunk near Tobruk without any compensation).

[image]local://upfiles/31316/1278C9FBE7714F128871CF21A1A2A133.jpg[/image]



Chocolino -> RE: Encircled by Enemies (PBEM gwgardner vs Chocolino) (11/21/2019 5:39:10 PM)

2-14-41

The British attack Italian positions near El Agheila but then retreat during their own turn. Not sure if they will come back. The Italians have occupied Crete after the British abandoned it. Prophylactically they send a small corps to Olbia in Sardinia since the Allies showed some interest in it earlier. Later Sardinia will make a great air base for the Allies.

[image]local://upfiles/31316/9C11F8C1C92E428D92F602D219AC8955.jpg[/image]



gwgardner -> RE: Encircled by Enemies (PBEM gwgardner vs Chocolino) (11/21/2019 8:19:32 PM)

Should be easy now for the AXIS in the UK, as the home country is completely cut off from Commonwealth supplies of oil and other resources. Production is down to practically nothing, oil is depleted. I'm not sure which port(s) are involved in the cutoff.

The fight will carry on as long as possible at home, then continue from Egypt.



Michael T -> RE: Encircled by Enemies (PBEM gwgardner vs Chocolino) (11/21/2019 10:18:37 PM)

quote:

The fight will carry on as long as possible at home, then continue from Egypt.
That's the spirit



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