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aspqrz02 -> RE: Malta (11/12/2019 10:45:16 PM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Cohen_slith
Italians in '40 could have seized Malta - the Regia Marina even had plans for that. Just never got the green light. Exactly as among their plans there was also one to invade Yugoslavian islands of Dalmatia coast (as Italy envisioned for many years a France-Yugoslavia potential war in the pre Mussolini-Laval 'friendship').
I don't think you read what I wrote ... or didn't understand it ...
Sure, the Italians had plans ... the first one, the 40000 man one with an estimated 100% loss of the 80 (count 'em, yes, a mere 80 ... 500 men per LC, minimum ...) landing craft was discarded as impossible to stage.
The revised plan, for half that number of men, 20,000, and the same number of Landing Craft, was also discarded as it, too, was deemed impossible to stage.
Shortage of Landing Craft (which would have had to have been built with the lack of resources the Italians operated under) would have taken too long; the Italians had cunningly lost 90% of their small merchant marine with careful planning that put them almost all in allied ports when they declared war in 1940 ... something that hamstrung their logistics throughout the war; they didn't have enough suitable planes to drop the airborne component all at once oh, and the 500+ aircraft that were to be committed to the op ... well, I don't suppose you read the bit about the massive shortfall in POL the Italians operated under thanks to equally careful (nonexistent) pre-war planning?
quote:
ORIGINAL: Cohen_slith
Also mayhaps, in '42 you have missed the fact the Axis were ready to invade Malta (operation Hercules, that is quite more known that specific details about pre-war preparations of Regia Marina). Forces that were -diverted- from that operation specifically after the fall of Tobruk and the subsequent victory at Marsa Matruh, since it was evaluated the seizure of Egypt was at hand and thus airborne troops were used as regular infantry to replenish the quite depleted forces of Rommel.
Mayhap you didn't read that I was specifically referring to the Italian fantasies?
And you definitely seem to have missed my reference to the German-Italian plan and the problems with that which made it too risky for Hitler as it would have either involved short-changing Barbarossa or doing away with the Afrika Corps. Not to mention the fact that even Hitler was worried, so much so he didn't go ahead with the plan, that it would be a worse bloodbath than Crete.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Cohen_slith
But resources were there already - and thus a player has all the rights to do so if they can manage that.
Sure, as long as those resources result in the DAK being pulled from North Africa or one of the Luftflottes and supporting troops pulled from Barbarossa ... and significant amounts of POL being pulled from Barbarossa to fuel the Italian Naval efforts.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Cohen_slith
Besides that, in general good gameplay and design is about drawing the line that 'history' is your average. Lots of people say Norway was a miracle, France was a miracle, etc - design a game where Axis needs to be lucky to do France or Norway and it's not their standard average, and no one plays Axis.
Besides history and relative knowledge, it is quite clear at least I and you Phil, have a widely different concept of what is a WW2 fantasy Risk, WW2 historical game, and so forth.
The general consensus of Historians, especially those with an economic bent, in the last 20 years or so is that Germany did WAY better than she had any right to expect in the early years of the war (i.e. way better than average) and then things reverted to the mean and she lost.
Indeed, check out the reading list kindly provided in the manual ... especially Overy's Why the Allies Won, Tooze's Wages of Destruction and Glantz & House's When Titans Clashed which is indicative of just how far behind the eight ball the Germans were.
In any case, as I have said, come September 1945 the Germans lose, regardless, as atomic mushroom clouds start to sprout over their cities, delivered in B-29s based in North America if necessary (that was the purpose of the B-29 program from the get go, to bomb Europe from North America, though, of course, originally with conventional bombs).
So, ultimately, it is victory conditions that decide how well the Nazis do in a game that even vaguely resembles history.
YMMV.
Phil McGregor
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