RE: Revanchism in Europe (PBEM gwgardner vs Chocolino) (Full Version)

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tyronec -> RE: Revanchism in Europe (PBEM gwgardner vs Chocolino) (12/17/2019 10:20:35 PM)

Having tried and seen some different approaches it is looking to me like the early years are looking like:
39 - Poland, Denmark and Netherlands.
40 - Belgium and France. Just maybe Yugoslavia and a possible Greece if France falls quickly.
41 - Russia
Any deviation from this by Axis is likely to be disadvantageous, unless the Allies make some mistakes.
There is little prospect of Axis doing much in the Africa or the Middle East if the Allies protect their position carefully.



Flaviusx -> RE: Revanchism in Europe (PBEM gwgardner vs Chocolino) (12/17/2019 10:26:11 PM)

I would agree with that assessment.



Chocolino -> RE: Revanchism in Europe (PBEM gwgardner vs Chocolino) (12/19/2019 9:02:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tyronec

Having tried and seen some different approaches it is looking to me like the early years are looking like:
39 - Poland, Denmark and Netherlands.
40 - Belgium and France. Just maybe Yugoslavia and a possible Greece if France falls quickly.
41 - Russia
Any deviation from this by Axis is likely to be disadvantageous, unless the Allies make some mistakes.
There is little prospect of Axis doing much in the Africa or the Middle East if the Allies protect their position carefully.


I agree as well. But one has to find those things out by own experimentation - it deepens the educational experience....

Also a little bit sad that there are not too many strategic options open to the Axis early in the game. It seems all to come down to tactical execution of the above time table and some external random effects such as weather.



Chocolino -> RE: Revanchism in Europe (PBEM gwgardner vs Chocolino) (12/19/2019 9:06:29 PM)

1-5-40

Instead of continuing to bang their head unsuccessfully at Brussels (which would get rid of the Belgium troops the quickest) the Axis pursues a slower but safer approach and crosses the Meuse at one hex east of Brussels to get a foothold on the other side.

[image]local://upfiles/31316/719BC7D0E8BE4A3AAAACBEBAD6FA2F55.jpg[/image]



Chocolino -> RE: Revanchism in Europe (PBEM gwgardner vs Chocolino) (12/19/2019 9:19:17 PM)

1-5-40

The French use their navy to hunt down innocent German merchantmen in the Skagerrak. Losses have been mounting and soon Germany will not be able to ship Swedish iron ore any more. I am wondering if it is worth to build more at a cost of 100PP for 10 merchantmen each if the Allies can sink 6 a turn? German U-Boats in comparison sink 2-4 convoys per turn and suffer occasional losses from escorts (all those numbers are from memory).

As much as I loath to use German resources on the French navy the Kriegsmarine could not sit by and watch this any longer. German heavy and light units sailed out in force with mixed results and losses on both sides (see box in below pic).

This is also a good time to talk about the British success with strat. bombing. They have costed Germany an estimated 200PP so far. The disappointing fact is that AA appear to be completely ineffective. Hit rates are around 1 hit per 8-10 attacks on sites with AA guns.

[image]local://upfiles/31316/F9496D84487545D48296EF37320C31CA.jpg[/image]



Michael T -> RE: Revanchism in Europe (PBEM gwgardner vs Chocolino) (12/19/2019 11:52:17 PM)

The early war strat bombing by allies has been nerfed in 1.04.

But considering the disadvantage the Soviet will face with his weakened Mech and Armour in 42 then it's a counter balance to that.

Just for interest, in my last game I played (1.03.02) the poor German had suffered 1089 productions losses by Oct 1940 just from Strategic Bombing.

Effectively 3 Armoured Corp removed from German OOB.



Flaviusx -> RE: Revanchism in Europe (PBEM gwgardner vs Chocolino) (12/20/2019 12:56:17 AM)

I found flak to be brutally effective in 1.03. But only if you put 6 points everywhere, and I doubt Germany can do that so early in the game.

Flak was hitting for 2 points minimum on each strike with 6 flak points on the target.



Michael T -> RE: Revanchism in Europe (PBEM gwgardner vs Chocolino) (12/20/2019 1:58:32 AM)

Flak seems to do pretty good in 1.04 from what I saw with all the extra flak in Germany in 1939. It made the idea of a 39 strategic bombing campaign 'idiotic'. A big change from being a 'no brainer' in earlier version.



Chocolino -> RE: Revanchism in Europe (PBEM gwgardner vs Chocolino) (12/20/2019 8:57:09 PM)

Since we started using V1.03, the extra Flak is not available in Germany. Also my opponent reports very few AA hits - so it is not a reporting error. Could be a statistical aberration of course.



Chocolino -> RE: Revanchism in Europe (PBEM gwgardner vs Chocolino) (12/20/2019 9:09:02 PM)

1-19-40

While the German navy fights for its Swedish iron ore supply, the Allied navies accost our ships in force. Luckily we can ambush the British and cause some losses during the Allied turn. On our own turn we attack a British group with fatal outcome for the Battlecruiser Scharnhorst. (It was also the first German ship sunk in our previous game. The Germans actually classified it as an armored cruiser back then).

Since the Kriegsmarine is no match for the joined Allied fleets we withdraw to Kiel with operations point #2.

[image]local://upfiles/31316/45DB4EC638004C13AEA3587B904D64A9.jpg[/image]



Chocolino -> RE: Revanchism in Europe (PBEM gwgardner vs Chocolino) (12/20/2019 9:13:08 PM)

2-2-40

We gain a second hex across the Meuse - the Axis keeps its operations to a minimum and builds AA guns en-masse.

[image]local://upfiles/31316/BE9190B580C047F2BE8F952DAFB362D7.jpg[/image]



Chocolino -> RE: Revanchism in Europe (PBEM gwgardner vs Chocolino) (12/23/2019 4:09:50 PM)

2-16-40

The Allies use the doomed French navy to its fullest extend and sink the German merchant marine. I believe that the Swedish merchanmen will make up any difference. But I am not sure how many merchantmen the Swedish can provide.

The remains of the German Kriegsmarine did go out again for this reason and found a watery grave in the Skagerrak.

[image]local://upfiles/31316/D34AA1EF99F2457B851B0E66EBB312A4.jpg[/image]



Chocolino -> RE: Revanchism in Europe (PBEM gwgardner vs Chocolino) (12/23/2019 4:11:50 PM)

2-16-40

At the same time the Wehrmacht gains one more hex on Brussels during frosty weather.

[image]local://upfiles/31316/8C8EDC926CF14DBEA835DD41171AE8B3.jpg[/image]



Chocolino -> RE: Revanchism in Europe (PBEM gwgardner vs Chocolino) (12/23/2019 4:16:56 PM)

3-29-40

After several weeks of weather related rest the Germans efforts pick up again as there is only rain this week. Brussels is taken and Belgium will surrender.

This week marks also the first time that the German merchant marine sinks below the required 25 ships for the Swedish iron ore transport. The Swedes kindly make up the difference so far.

[image]local://upfiles/31316/C8D2B401ABB44F428EF7E710EF43D256.jpg[/image]



Chocolino -> RE: Revanchism in Europe (PBEM gwgardner vs Chocolino) (12/24/2019 6:00:31 PM)

4-12-40

While the Allies continue to pound the German industry and convoy lanes, the Wehrmacht uses a late frost week to reach the French border south of Brussels. More AA is being installed in Germany - but so far I have recorded only a single AA hit all game. Even if I missed one or two hits this is poor shooting of the AA crews who will get their beer ration cut and instead need more training.

[image]local://upfiles/31316/167FF4FF08EE403EA1464D12A4BAA9C9.jpg[/image]



Chocolino -> RE: Revanchism in Europe (PBEM gwgardner vs Chocolino) (12/25/2019 5:05:30 PM)

5-10-40

Summer is around the corner and the weather clears. Germany moves into position and clears 2 more Belgian hexes.

[image]local://upfiles/31316/F094BBB1D418483BA15ABEB76B682EC6.jpg[/image]



gwgardner -> RE: Revanchism in Europe (PBEM gwgardner vs Chocolino) (12/25/2019 8:00:09 PM)

French and British intelligence services are scratching their collective heads - where is the German armor!?

Oh, that's right ... they're scattered about the Belgian countryside, as smoking relics ....

By the way, deGaulle just received a battlefield promotion, and took command of the French effort north of Paris.



Chocolino -> RE: Revanchism in Europe (PBEM gwgardner vs Chocolino) (12/26/2019 4:43:27 PM)

5-24-40

At least so far German armor is still ok and spearheading a break through the French defenses that reaches south of the Somme line. (The second armor unit is resting south-west of Düsseldorf after aiding in the initial breakthrough. Unfortunately we don't have a 3rd yet).

We set the infantry protecting the flanks of the breakthrough to "hold" and "supply priority" since we expect a French counter-blow. Furthermore three Luftwaffe interceptors are positioned nearby as well to deter Allied air attacks on the break-through hexes.

Also - if the German tanks had to retreat for whatever reason they couldn't and would shatter instead. But if the French want to attack the armor directly they will have to retreat a lot of units.

[image]local://upfiles/31316/2FFD8A8BCA8F4D3F8A625F8CF3E71527.jpg[/image]



Chocolino -> RE: Revanchism in Europe (PBEM gwgardner vs Chocolino) (12/27/2019 12:10:39 AM)

6-7-40

This is before the German turn:

Despite all precautions mentioned above, the French managed to cut off our spearheads. However, they did abandon their much touted support for Luxembourg and also retreated from the Alsace and the Vosges mountains. Only a garrison in Metz and in the very south of the Maginot line stayed in place.

[image]local://upfiles/31316/0DAEE61E85954305A199C76F2296FFE8.jpg[/image]



Chocolino -> RE: Revanchism in Europe (PBEM gwgardner vs Chocolino) (12/27/2019 12:19:00 AM)

6-7-40

After the German turn:

The Wehrmacht punches through the French lines to reach the two cut off German corps. Also German garrison troops cross the Rhine and occupy the Maginot line. Luxembourg falls without a fight.

I see now on the picture that I did not turn off the "hold" order on the leading tank corps even though the Germans left a retreat hex open for them. This error may have fatal consequences.

[image]local://upfiles/31316/C3273523BB6D4802A88EDAE33236DCFB.jpg[/image]



Chocolino -> RE: Revanchism in Europe (PBEM gwgardner vs Chocolino) (12/27/2019 3:33:50 PM)

6-21-40

Last weeks report forgot to mention that German paratroopers - intended for Rouen - landed short of the city because of a navigational error. The French have now cut this brave soldiers off and the rest of the Wehrmacht was not able to break through to them. I hope they will survive another turn.

In further bad news the leading German tank corps paid for the hold order of its negligent commander with complete destruction. The French campaign looks like a defensive success for the French this time around.

The only positive aspect is that the German garrison troops scaled the Vosges heights and worm their way around Metz. Unfortunately these troops are not very mobile and pose no immediate threat to the Paris front.

[image]local://upfiles/31316/5044FB7AA53E4DACAF612536606FC1C7.jpg[/image]



battlevonwar -> RE: Revanchism in Europe (PBEM gwgardner vs Chocolino) (12/28/2019 4:26:52 AM)

Brave French encircling and teach the Blitzkrieg it cannot overstretch it supplies that much!



Chocolino -> RE: Revanchism in Europe (PBEM gwgardner vs Chocolino) (12/28/2019 5:36:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: battlevonwar

Brave French encircling and teach the Blitzkrieg it cannot overstretch it supplies that much!


Haha, yes very brave of the French with 6 against one lonely paratrooper. Luckily supply is not an issue in France - as long as you are not cut off.....



Chocolino -> RE: Revanchism in Europe (PBEM gwgardner vs Chocolino) (12/28/2019 5:48:48 PM)

7-5-40

Yes - the lone German paratrooper perished in a hail of French fire.

On the plus side of the ledger Metz falls to German garrison troops. The tanks were not involved in the actual fighting and just rolled in for the final occupation - they are fresh from a factory in the Ruhrgebiet. The fall of Metz should further reduce the French ability to reinforce themselves.

This brings me to another question - I was wondering if the strength of the French army was also a result of foreign aid or if the slow German time table allowed them too much production? Perhaps the French can clarify after the campaign.

[image]local://upfiles/31316/CB6CC30A19F04F8E9A096924E404C10E.jpg[/image]



gwgardner -> RE: Revanchism in Europe (PBEM gwgardner vs Chocolino) (12/28/2019 8:43:39 PM)

The French are quite angry with their erstwhile British allies. No aid whatsoever, other than the occasional air strike and a dribble of oil. Whereas France willingly placed its entire naval force under Admiralty control.

France has been able to muster only one new infantry corps. It has plowed every available production point into reinforcement/upgrade.

DeGaulle has sworn to bide his time, but that the British will someday pay.

It is the opinion of GHQ that German fighting throughout the Fall and often in the winter, resulted in unnecessary losses on their part, with resulting reduced strength when the campaigning season resumed in 1940.



Chocolino -> RE: Revanchism in Europe (PBEM gwgardner vs Chocolino) (12/28/2019 9:56:12 PM)

7-19-40

Rouen is occupied by German forces. (no picture)

8-2-40

Paris falls - but this does apparently not secure a French surrender any more despite having also Lille, Metz and Rouen. The French morale is now at 31 and well below the threshold of 45. The surrender rules must have changed since the last version.

[image]local://upfiles/31316/C6EA0A355107407DA62FEB9A1C2663B7.jpg[/image]



Journier -> RE: Revanchism in Europe (PBEM gwgardner vs Chocolino) (12/28/2019 11:53:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chocolino

7-19-40

Rouen is occupied by German forces. (no picture)

8-2-40

Paris falls - but this does apparently not secure a French surrender any more despite having also Lille, Metz and Rouen. The French morale is now at 31 and well below the threshold of 45. The surrender rules must have changed since the last version.

[image]local://upfiles/31316/C6EA0A355107407DA62FEB9A1C2663B7.jpg[/image]


that is strange ive ran quite a few games in the original patch and never had france hold out so long to surrender, has it been 1 turn? or 2? ive noticed sometimes a second turn is required to get the french surrender offer.



Chocolino -> RE: Revanchism in Europe (PBEM gwgardner vs Chocolino) (12/29/2019 4:35:57 PM)

Since I am a bit late with my reports I can tell you that the French continue to fight on for several turns now and are still going. And this is not an exception since the same has happened to my Axis opponent in my other PBEM game.



Chocolino -> RE: Revanchism in Europe (PBEM gwgardner vs Chocolino) (12/29/2019 4:39:59 PM)

8-16-40

The Germans are happy to get (almost) free experience in France and continue the fight while waiting for a surrender offer. The French defense is now loosing some of its earlier cohesion and it will be interesting to see which areas the French will defend and which they will hand over to the Axis.

[image]local://upfiles/31316/BE6349632A604743B4434913F309941C.jpg[/image]



Chocolino -> RE: Revanchism in Europe (PBEM gwgardner vs Chocolino) (12/29/2019 4:50:44 PM)

8-16-40

The Italians enter French territory for the first time, threatening the Cote d'Azur ports and the Rhone valley.

[image]local://upfiles/31316/D8BED35D9B1A4B2480F32866E85DB752.jpg[/image]



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