RE: The Mystery of Dyatlov Pass (Full Version)

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sullafelix -> RE: The Mystery of Dyatlov Pass (1/6/2020 10:59:54 AM)

Why they camped where they did has always puzzled me. If it was me I would have camped at the treeline to lessen the winds. Why they camped on a small hillock completely exposed to everything never made any sense. They were experienced campers, sometimes that is forgotten.



sPzAbt653 -> RE: The Mystery of Dyatlov Pass (1/6/2020 5:27:18 PM)

I agree. The explanations I have seen are that they didn't want to backtrack and lose ground already gained, and they also knew that it was possible to spend the night in the area they choose, even if it wasn't an optimal location. If this video is to be believed, these reasons don't seem irrational.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cY7oDKLJ4JE

I will also mention again that there is reason to believe that they were staying away from the woods on that last day. Even that night when things went wrong, they all retreated to the other side of the pass, away from where they had come from and where they had left supplies. Some of the last photos they took were of the woods they had just passed thru. These were out of character with all the other photos which were of the people or camps. I find these last photos to be creepy, as if they are saying 'what is back there, is something following us?'.

Here is an example. Their tracks can be seen on the left, so at this point in the trip they are looking back and taking pictures, whereas earlier they hadn't done this.

[image]local://upfiles/24850/17E8F800030F4BC1BDBE3DAA77D1312F.jpg[/image]



Zorch -> RE: The Mystery of Dyatlov Pass (1/7/2020 5:13:12 PM)

Interesting, but inconclusive. [8|]

Have we extracted everything from Dyatlov Pass? Are we ready to move on?

[image]local://upfiles/34241/C61B5C9E96554DFF832808B8F5FC0E18.jpg[/image]



sPzAbt653 -> RE: The Mystery of Dyatlov Pass (1/9/2020 4:53:07 AM)

Ok, it seems the only weapons they had were knives, all of which were found in the tent. A lot more to discuss but I got sidetracked by wondering how often whole groups of people die in something other than a fatal event, like an explosion or train crash, etc. Two very similar to the Dyatlov Incident:
Chivruay Pass incident in 1973
Mt Tritrans incident in 1993

Mt Tritrans, in Russia near Mongolia:

[image]local://upfiles/24850/3BC2FEAEF418443B913400612782FBF7.jpg[/image]



sullafelix -> RE: The Mystery of Dyatlov Pass (1/11/2020 10:52:35 PM)

I think the Mary Celeste is relatively easy to explain. I have seen pirates along with the crew itself or the ship that found her lying and they were pirates. I think in this case you follow the money. They never had any barrels that were leaking alcohol which is one of the favorite theories. As I said, to me follow the prize money.



Zorch -> RE: The Mystery of Dyatlov Pass (1/11/2020 11:04:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

Ok, it seems the only weapons they had were knives, all of which were found in the tent. A lot more to discuss but I got sidetracked by wondering how often whole groups of people die in something other than a fatal event, like an explosion or train crash, etc. Two very similar to the Dyatlov Incident:
Chivruay Pass incident in 1973
Mt Tritrans incident in 1993

Mt Tritrans, in Russia near Mongolia:

[image]local://upfiles/24850/3BC2FEAEF418443B913400612782FBF7.jpg[/image]

Thanks for making me aware of these 2 incidents.
People do sometimes act irrationally under extreme conditions, even experienced ones.



sPzAbt653 -> RE: The Mystery of Dyatlov Pass (7/14/2020 4:48:55 AM)

UPDATE !

Results of the reopened investigation into the infamous Dyatlov Pass incident [started in February of 2019]:

https://dyatlovpass.com/procecutors-investigation?rbid=18461

Russian officials have announced that their reopened investigation into the infamous Dyatlov Pass incident determined that an avalanche and subsequent hypothermia were to blame for the tragic event.

I say BOO-HISS! We already knew all of this hokum. But if that is what they say, what can we do? It irritates me that they reopen the investigation but only to prove the most pedestrian excuse. They ignore all of the interesting possibilities. But of course, due to the lack of evidence there never will be an acceptable answer. So it remains to me one of the many interesting things to ponder.



James Taylor -> RE: The Mystery of Dyatlov Pass (7/14/2020 5:41:03 PM)

The usual human MO, bad decision making!



t001001001 -> RE: The Mystery of Dyatlov Pass (7/14/2020 8:36:41 PM)

DM had a article about this a couple days ago claiming the mystery is now solved: They died of hypothermia. Any more questions? [8D]



RangerJoe -> RE: The Mystery of Dyatlov Pass (7/14/2020 9:00:25 PM)

It was warm so the top layer of snow melted somewhat, then it became very cold so the snow froze hard. Then the wind was blowing fresh snow on top of that, piling it up on the leeward side of the peak. That is the recipe for avalanche. Now, camp underneath the snow that piled up. Have fun . . .



sPzAbt653 -> RE: The Mystery of Dyatlov Pass (7/14/2020 10:40:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: t001001001
DM had a article about this a couple days ago claiming the mystery is now solved: They died of hypothermia. Any more questions? [8D]

The initial investigation in 1959 determined that seven of them died of Hypothermia and two died from crushing injuries suffered when a ton of snow fell on them. Cause of death has never been a mystery.



wodin -> RE: The Mystery of Dyatlov Pass (7/16/2020 12:23:25 PM)

Crazy corpses. All very strange.

Seen a docu on it aswell as a rather poor film.



RangerJoe -> RE: The Mystery of Dyatlov Pass (1/29/2021 2:38:51 PM)

I just saw this article:

9 Russian Adventurers Mysteriously Froze to Death. A New Theory Explains Why
More than 60 years after the incident, scientists say they have new evidence pointing to a peculiar kind of avalanche as the culprit.

quote:

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Now, more than 60 years later, scientists say they’ve got new evidence to back up that claim, but with a twist: The killer was probably a peculiar kind of avalanche. Inspired by previous work that modeled realistic snow for the Disney film Frozen, the researchers simulated how a relatively tiny avalanche could have struck the camp, forcing the adventurers to flee, and severely injuring some of them.
.
.
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https://www.wired.com/story/dyatlov-pass-incident-slab-avalanche/#intcid=recommendations_wired-right-rail-vidi-experiment_0ba71558-adb8-4e3d-a509-deba537501d5_popular4-1



sPzAbt653 -> RE: The Mystery of Dyatlov Pass (1/30/2021 2:55:11 PM)

I'm sure that Avalanche Theory has been around since day 1. I don't know why anyone would say that there is new evidence for it 60 years later. I've read the Avalanche Theory's and while certainly anything is possible, they really don't make much sense. But I'll go read this one and see what it's about ...



TulliusDetritus -> RE: The Mystery of Dyatlov Pass (1/30/2021 3:07:42 PM)

If I am not mistaken the Russian local authorities reopened (2019) then *definitely* closed the case some months ago (august iirc). Avalanche it was. The conclusions (in Russian, which I don't understand):

https://www.kp.ru/daily/27154.5/4251446/



sPzAbt653 -> RE: The Mystery of Dyatlov Pass (1/30/2021 3:13:42 PM)

... Ok, back from reading. Thanks for posting it by the way, everything about this case is interesting to me. But I'm not impressed by the thin reasoning and mocked up animations in the article. There is much more that makes no sense. Two main points that jump out right away - they ran down the wrong side of the hill, actually away from their backup supplies, so the article is wrong about that. And the crushing injuries were already explained in the initial investigation years ago because those injured had taken shelter under a huge snow overhang next to a creek, and it had collapsed on them.



RangerJoe -> RE: The Mystery of Dyatlov Pass (1/30/2021 3:23:54 PM)

You are welcome.

But this articles does explain how a small avalanche could occur on a slope that was not normally steep enough. It is also interesting that they used Hollywood animators to help model it.

In a panic, they ran the wrong way which is not unusual. They probably could have dug out an opening for air and have been fine until the next morning. At least as fine as they could be, then send up smoke signals . . .



TulliusDetritus -> RE: The Mystery of Dyatlov Pass (1/30/2021 3:26:55 PM)

Already posted by Ranger Joe, apologies.



sPzAbt653 -> RE: The Mystery of Dyatlov Pass (1/30/2021 3:40:01 PM)

quote:

they ran the wrong way which is not unusual.


Yeah but these weren't rookies, some of them were even going for the highest level of experience possible for guides, so they not only were used to the Urals, they had been in the same area before. So it's another point that is plausible, but kinda not really strongly believable.

Another example: Why camp in the open in those weather conditions? Some say they wanted to experience camping on an incline in the open and in poor weather. Others conclude that they didn't want to camp in the woods because there was something there. [This is supported by other evidence, too]. So again, two very different but reasonable excuses.



RangerJoe -> RE: The Mystery of Dyatlov Pass (1/30/2021 3:52:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

Already posted by Ranger Joe, apologies.


Thank you. A lot more detailed and technical.



RangerJoe -> RE: The Mystery of Dyatlov Pass (1/30/2021 5:08:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

Already posted by Ranger Joe, apologies.


Your link was much moe detailed and technical, no apologies. Here is your link again for those who missed it:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s43247-020-00081-8



Zorch -> RE: The Mystery of Dyatlov Pass (2/2/2021 2:37:05 PM)

Another article is https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/01/9-russian-adventurers-mysteriously-froze-to-death-a-new-theory-explains-why/

I'm also skeptical of the new explanation; but it seems less implausible than other theories. We'll never know...



Zorch -> RE: The Mystery of Dyatlov Pass (6/11/2021 6:45:22 PM)

A Baffling 60-Year Old Mystery Propels the Documentary An Unknown Compelling Force

Director Liam Le Guillou discusses his investigation into the Dyatlov Pass incident, one of Russia's most famous unsolved mysteries.

https://gizmodo.com/a-baffling-60-year-old-mystery-propels-the-documentary-1847067035

An interview with the film maker. Includes trailer for the documentary.



[image]local://upfiles/34241/AD5CAC396FFA4A2BA3ABB5DD2F3028EA.jpg[/image]

[image]local://upfiles/34241/0B7865A7BB504149A68C4CC33527B9CE.jpg[/image]



Rosseau -> RE: The Mystery of Dyatlov Pass (6/12/2021 2:34:46 AM)

What impresses me most is the intelligence level of the posters here. Definitely a chilling story, no pun intended.

There is definitely a "logical" explanation out there - certainly not the Yeti or aliens. And the victim's families deserve some kind of closure. I hope they will get it, in this life at least.

Thanks for posting!



RoryAndersonCDT -> RE: The Mystery of Dyatlov Pass (6/12/2021 3:33:27 AM)

Dyatlov Pass is one of my favorite mysteries, as nothing adds up when we factor in all the evidence.
We then must discard evidence, based on likelihood.
Given it occurred in 1950s USSR, I am inclined to disregard much that was reported by the search teams. But, I think the medical state of the bodies wouldn't have been misreported, and perhaps the state (but, crucially, not location) of the tent.

Without considering anything other than the severe injuries of 3 of the members of the expedition, and the damage to the tent, the most likely conclusion is a tree fell on their tent while they were sleeping. The members would then have to cut their way out of a crushed tent, at night, which explains the damage to the tent.

I think a tree fell on their tent during a windy night, they then passed away due to injuries/exposure. Then their bodies and tent were later moved by someone, perhaps part of the search team, to the location they were found.

I found the book, 1079: The overwhelming force of Dyatlov Pass, by Igor Pavlov (which was published this year!), this was one of the theories the book put forward. And I found to be quite convincing and satisfying.



sPzAbt653 -> RE: The Mystery of Dyatlov Pass (6/12/2021 10:12:04 AM)

I also love a good mystery and this is certainly one of those. Not to disagree with you, but I am wondering if there is more evidence for the tent being relocated? When I consider that scenario [a tree falling on it during the storm] it certainly makes sense because many have theorized that they would have camped in the woods rather than on the exposed hill during a storm. However, others have suggested that camping in the woods during a storm is dangerous just for that reason [trees or branches falling]. Also, these hiker/campers were qualifying for the highest level of Guide Status, therefore they were doing difficult things, so the idea of camping on an exposed hill at night during a storm is something they actually wanted to do.

So anyway, I am assuming that it is possible that they camped in the woods and were hit by a tree, but why would somebody then remove the tree, re-raise the tent enough to pack up all their equipment, pack the damaged tent, move it at least 1.5 miles [the distance from the woods to where the tent was found, if I remember correctly], dig the snow out for the position for the tent, re-raise the tent again, then load all the equipment inside, then knock it down again. ? Like I said, not disagreeing, just trying to get some more perspective/ideas/theories. Thanks!



RoryAndersonCDT -> RE: The Mystery of Dyatlov Pass (6/13/2021 2:51:31 AM)

I'd recommend the book 1079: The overwhelming force of Dyatlov Pass, by Igor Pavlov. Quite gripping reading, the book is mostly about the facts and events leading up to the loss of the party.

The book has an online component, with additional information: https://dyatlovpass.com/1079-new-book but I'd recommend reading the book first. Well written, and no crazy theories about UFOs or yetis.



Zorch -> RE: The Mystery of Dyatlov Pass (6/13/2021 2:49:31 PM)

All the explanations I've seen are somewhat unlikely; it's a matter of choosing the one you find least unlikely. [8|]

Suppose the Titanic had happened 10 years earlier before ships had wireless; how would people have explained its disappearance?



sPzAbt653 -> RE: The Mystery of Dyatlov Pass (6/14/2021 9:44:39 AM)

quote:

All the explanations I've seen are somewhat unlikely

But I am still allowed to ask you what is your opinion based on what we do know. Even if you believe that every possible bit of data is flawed, you could still make an intelligent argument in some direction, right ?

I'm saying if it is a mystery that we are all mulling over, why not throw in? No need to bring up Titanic. We can dod at in another thread, eh?

For example, why did these hikers have no weapons on them other than hunting knives? Didn't anyone get charged with bringing a gun of some sort? Into the wilderness? Hmmm ...



RangerJoe -> RE: The Mystery of Dyatlov Pass (6/14/2021 10:58:18 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

quote:

All the explanations I've seen are somewhat unlikely

But I am still allowed to ask you what is your opinion based on what we do know. Even if you believe that every possible bit of data is flawed, you could still make an intelligent argument in some direction, right ?

I'm saying if it is a mystery that we are all mulling over, why not throw in? No need to bring up Titanic. We can dod at in another thread, eh?

For example, why did these hikers have no weapons on them other than hunting knives? Didn't anyone get charged with bringing a gun of some sort? Into the wilderness? Hmmm ...


Why would those hikers be allowed weapons in the Soviet Union? Were the average people allowed to have firearms? Also, at that time of year?

I think that the best explanation that I have read is a mini avalanche that hit their tent. They were in a bad place and may not have realized the dangers. Camp upwind of the slope, not downwind. That is the same idea with a sandstorm in the desert, be upwind of any shelter like a wall so you don't get covered in snow nor have a drift collapse on you.



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