RE: FROM THE RED ZONE (Full Version)

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Gilmer -> RE: FROM THE RED ZONE (3/17/2020 5:20:51 PM)

Well, despite everything, I hope you all stay safe and your loved ones. Let's get through this. Once we're on the other side, hopefully we'll be stronger.

And anyone I have ever had words with on here, I never meant it to be personal. Sometimes I FEEL things personally, but it is never to be thought of as at any certain posters.

Having said all that, it may seem I'm being fatalistic, which is not the case. I don't have the virus, as far as I know. So, I hope everyone stays as safe as I think I have. [:)]




balto -> RE: FROM THE RED ZONE (3/17/2020 5:58:10 PM)

Curtis LeMay, why did you post that? We know you have math skills because of ToW. Chill out and maybe someone will close this post. Ridiculous, this will pass.., relax.




Blond_Knight -> RE: FROM THE RED ZONE (3/17/2020 7:18:44 PM)

[image]https://reginamag.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/GASLIGHT-IMAGE.png[/image]




Zorch -> RE: FROM THE RED ZONE (3/17/2020 8:49:03 PM)

New coronavirus stable for hours on surfaces: study https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-03-coronavirus-stable-hours-surfaces.html

text follows

The virus that causes coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) is stable for several hours to days in aerosols and on surfaces, according to a new study from National Institutes of Health, CDC, UCLA and Princeton University scientists The New England Journal of Medicine. The scientists found that severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) was detectable in aerosols for up to three hours, up to four hours on copper, up to 24 hours on cardboard and up to two to three days on plastic and stainless steel. The results provide key information about the stability of SARS-CoV-2, which causes COVID-19 disease, and suggests that people may acquire the virus through the air and after touching contaminated objects. The study information was widely shared during the past two weeks after the researchers placed the contents on a preprint server to quickly share their data with colleagues.

The NIH scientists, from the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases' Montana facility at Rocky Mountain Laboratories, compared how the environment affects SARS-CoV-2 and SARS-CoV-1, which causes SARS. SARS-CoV-1, like its successor now circulating across the globe, emerged from China and infected more than 8,000 people in 2002 and 2003. SARS-CoV-1 was eradicated by intensive contact tracing and case isolation measures and no cases have been detected since 2004. SARS-CoV-1 is the human coronavirus most closely related to SARS-CoV-2. In the stability study the two viruses behaved similarly, which unfortunately fails to explain why COVID-19 has become a much larger outbreak.

The NIH study attempted to mimic virus being deposited from an infected person onto everyday surfaces in a household or hospital setting, such as through coughing or touching objects. The scientists then investigated how long the virus remained infectious on these surfaces.

The scientists highlighted additional observations from their study:

If the viability of the two coronaviruses is similar, why is SARS-CoV-2 resulting in more cases? Emerging evidence suggests that people infected with SARS-CoV-2 might be spreading virus without recognizing, or prior to recognizing, symptoms. This would make disease control measures that were effective against SARS-CoV-1 less effective against its successor.
In contrast to SARS-CoV-1, most secondary cases of virus transmission of SARS-CoV-2 appear to be occurring in community settings rather than healthcare settings. However, healthcare settings are also vulnerable to the introduction and spread of SARS-CoV-2, and the stability of SARS-CoV-2 in aerosols and on surfaces likely contributes to transmission of the virus in healthcare settings.

The findings affirm the guidance from public health professionals to use precautions similar to those for influenza and other respiratory viruses to prevent the spread of SARS-CoV-2:

Avoid close contact with people who are sick.
Avoid touching your eyes, nose, and mouth.
Stay home when you are sick.
Cover your cough or sneeze with a tissue, then throw the tissue in the trash.
Clean and disinfect frequently touched objects and surfaces using a regular household cleaning spray or wipe.

[image]local://upfiles/34241/96073B6C17874022B9AF4216617A365A.jpg[/image]




Jonathan Pollard -> RE: FROM THE RED ZONE (3/17/2020 9:10:57 PM)

Ironically, the virus is probably saving more lives than it is taking. https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/How-Coronavirus-Is-Saving-Lives.html

And that's not even taking into consideration the saving of lives from reduced numbers of traffic fatalities.




TulliusDetritus -> RE: FROM THE RED ZONE (3/17/2020 9:24:09 PM)

"COVID-19 vaccine developed by [chinese] military medical academy approved for clinical trials"

http://eng.mod.gov.cn/news/2020-03/18/content_4862087.htm

I wish them (and the scientists in Seattle [?]) success.




Zovs -> RE: FROM THE RED ZONE (3/17/2020 10:24:23 PM)

I would not trust the Chinese.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/02/15/heres-why-the-white-house-doesnt-trust-chinas-coronavirus-numbers.html




TulliusDetritus -> RE: FROM THE RED ZONE (3/17/2020 10:38:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zovs

I would not trust the Chinese.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/02/15/heres-why-the-white-house-doesnt-trust-chinas-coronavirus-numbers.html



I could not care less what the "white house" thinks or says, my friend [:'(][sm=00000622.gif]




MrsWargamer -> RE: FROM THE RED ZONE (3/18/2020 12:31:33 AM)

Granny, what did you do during the great virus of 2020?

I played Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay with my toys and stayed inside out of harm's way.
I'd have liked to play a wargame, but they just couldn't figure out how to launch Sealion. Same ole hassle eh.

[image]https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-EP94GJ789LY/XnFozRCXVsI/AAAAAAAAB_Y/H5ECXsvXy-kB0yUES0GzxEvgp0FxwIMNQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/20200315_155426.jpg[/image]




RangerJoe -> RE: FROM THE RED ZONE (3/18/2020 2:04:12 AM)

Australian researchers discover how body's immune system fights coronavirus COVID-19

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-17/research-how-bodys-immune-system-fights-coronavirus-covid-19/12059266?fbclid=IwAR1KEkwmMRdF9zscMxIxbuYd_awU-PUP93QKlDYSQs3az47yHyPfGswqeNo

With so many things closing, expect a baby boom starting in 9 months . . .




TulliusDetritus -> RE: FROM THE RED ZONE (3/18/2020 11:06:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

With so many things closing, expect a baby boom starting in 9 months


Yes. In the EU we might have one this fall. And I mean one hitting the market.

https://metro.co.uk/2020/03/17/coronavirus-vaccine-ready-autumn-says-european-commission-chief-12414537/

A Chinese or Indian are most welcome. Cheap if not free... and let the usual suspects choke on their martinis [;)]

Edit: apologies, you're talking about real babies




RangerJoe -> RE: FROM THE RED ZONE (3/18/2020 12:48:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

With so many things closing, expect a baby boom starting in 9 months


Yes. In the EU we might have one this fall. And I mean one hitting the market.

https://metro.co.uk/2020/03/17/coronavirus-vaccine-ready-autumn-says-european-commission-chief-12414537/

A Chinese or Indian are most welcome. Cheap if not free... and let the usual suspects choke on their martinis [;)]

Edit: apologies, you're talking about real babies


No need for apologies. I was not insulted. That is a different kind of baby but one that will be most welcome.




Erik Rutins -> RE: FROM THE RED ZONE (3/18/2020 3:38:19 PM)

This is quite encouraging, if it can be scaled up:

https://twitter.com/AlecMacGillis/status/1240279081293352964/photo/1




RangerJoe -> RE: FROM THE RED ZONE (3/18/2020 4:05:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

This is quite encouraging, if it can be scaled up:

https://twitter.com/AlecMacGillis/status/1240279081293352964/photo/1


I agree.




Rising-Sun -> RE: FROM THE RED ZONE (3/18/2020 4:05:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: balto

Curtis LeMay, why did you post that? We know you have math skills because of ToW. Chill out and maybe someone will close this post. Ridiculous, this will pass.., relax.


He like to drop bombs on people, just ignored him. Sometimes he in a good mood and sometimes he is not.




Rising-Sun -> RE: FROM THE RED ZONE (3/18/2020 4:08:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

Granny, what did you do during the great virus of 2020?

I played Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay with my toys and stayed inside out of harm's way.
I'd have liked to play a wargame, but they just couldn't figure out how to launch Sealion. Same ole hassle eh.

[image]https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-EP94GJ789LY/XnFozRCXVsI/AAAAAAAAB_Y/H5ECXsvXy-kB0yUES0GzxEvgp0FxwIMNQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/20200315_155426.jpg[/image]


That is cool, I though about getting the roleplaying book Fire and Ice to play out Game of Throne, w/e that is. Its a very popular book, but different from the TV Series. After watching part of last season eight, it was a huge downfall and didn't like it at all.

Kinda hard to find someone local to play with you, esp this virus going on. Best thing is find something you enjoy online, but people online seem to be pretty hateful and not friendly to be around with.




MrsWargamer -> RE: FROM THE RED ZONE (3/18/2020 4:14:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rising-Sun


That is cool, I though about getting the roleplaying book Fire and Ice to play out Game of Throne, w/e that is. Its a very popular book, but different from the TV Series. After watching part of last season eight, it was a huge downfall and didn't like it at all.

Kinda hard to find someone local to play with you, esp this virus going on. Best thing is find something you enjoy online, but people online seem to be pretty hateful and not friendly to be around with.


The process is not really any different than playing a board wargame solo.

You sit there as the DM, you have made up PCs for the toys (in my case), you give them each a personality (Frank wants to be a dwarf, and the raccoon plans to be a thief), you have them make choices that seem reasonable, you roll a lot of dice, and you pretend to not know what the oppoent is thinking (just like with a wargame).
The only real danger, is you have too much fun, and anyone catching you, thinks you've lost your friggin mind :)




RangerJoe -> RE: FROM THE RED ZONE (3/18/2020 4:46:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rising-Sun


That is cool, I though about getting the roleplaying book Fire and Ice to play out Game of Throne, w/e that is. Its a very popular book, but different from the TV Series. After watching part of last season eight, it was a huge downfall and didn't like it at all.

Kinda hard to find someone local to play with you, esp this virus going on. Best thing is find something you enjoy online, but people online seem to be pretty hateful and not friendly to be around with.


The process is not really any different than playing a board wargame solo.

You sit there as the DM, you have made up PCs for the toys (in my case), you give them each a personality (Frank wants to be a dwarf, and the raccoon plans to be a thief), you have them make choices that seem reasonable, you roll a lot of dice, and you pretend to not know what the oppoent is thinking (just like with a wargame).
The only real danger, is you have too much fun, and anyone catching you, thinks you've lost your friggin mind :)



For me, that would be the proof that some people would need.

Of course, to make it more complicated, you could set up a certain number of actions for each character and then roll a die or more to see what they will do or not do.

A person might be able to make up a video conference call and have a DM/controller to oversee things.




Erik Rutins -> RE: FROM THE RED ZONE (3/18/2020 5:00:30 PM)

I think this describes why we have to act now well:

https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/18/we-know-enough-now-to-act-decisively-against-covid-19/




Erik Rutins -> RE: FROM THE RED ZONE (3/18/2020 5:03:05 PM)

Can we "flatten the curve" enough? These may be of interest:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/03/17/upshot/hospital-bed-shortages-coronavirus.html

https://projects.propublica.org/graphics/covid-hospitals




Red2112 -> RE: FROM THE RED ZONE (3/18/2020 5:46:42 PM)

It seemīs some folks here, and goverments donīt have the real facts clear yet, or simply ignor them...

1)- Unless we have enough test kitīs, and then test given, we wont know how many are infected, thus all those numbers are not worth much!
Why goverments are not doing something about the test kits is quite bizzar!

2)- The lockdown is to avoid spread to those very vunarable, and because of shortage of supplyīs and resources (medical, protection gear, personell, beds etc.).

3)- The most vunarable are the elder with heart issues, debetis, and resperotory issues. This was the case of my mother at age 86, debetis, heart issues (x2 stens) and water in lungs. She maybe would have lived for a bit more, but due to her catching the infection she died two days ago. Any one over 60 with the above mentioned health issues are at risk and should take special care! Age could go down as much as 45 if similar health issues are present, we are still not sure the effect it has on certain age, but we do know which healt issues help the virus to be deadly!

4)- We donīt know how long this will last, and/or if there will be a second or more waves! How can we know, if we donīt know how many are really infected? Staying home is just a prevention, and alot of goverments have taken there time to take on effective mesures!

5)- With regards to warmer climate, southren countryīs will dictate if itīs true or not.

A world state of siege undecover? Unfortunately we wont know the real reasons for now, what we do know itīs world-wide so we are all in it sooner or later. Personally I donīt trust ANY goverment, they are just buisiness men and only care for one thing! A similar thing with the media!

Stay home, stay safe and be open minded for whatīs up and coming.

Red

--




MrRoadrunner -> RE: FROM THE RED ZONE (3/18/2020 6:19:54 PM)

Sorry for your loss Red.
When it gets personal it really resonates?

My mom is 83. Still with us, and sheltering in place in her home.

We both live in the "ground zero" of Montgomery County, Pennsylvania.

I am in the "susceptible age group" along with congestive heart failure. Not quite sheltering in place, unless money starts falling from the sky.

RR




Red2112 -> RE: FROM THE RED ZONE (3/18/2020 6:50:21 PM)

Thank you MrRoadrunner. Do keep safe please.

For those open minded...

The hunger game society:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9n1lJks00Zo




Curtis Lemay -> RE: FROM THE RED ZONE (3/18/2020 6:57:26 PM)

Today's worldwide figures:

Total Cases: 213557
Total Recovered: 84317
Total Deaths: 8790

Death Rate: 8790 / (8790 + 84317) = 9.4%

That's up from 8.5% yesterday.

Note that the above figures are all we have to work with. If you don't like the results you can:

1. Manipulate the data. That means cherry-picking the data you like and ignoring the data you don't like. That's an obvious vector for bias.
2. Speculate about unknowns. That seems to be the balm most of you are turning to (especially for the recoveries - not the deaths). But this will only result in a guess and everyone's guess will vary wildly. (And deaths are unknown as well - victims that died at home alone may not be found for months, and N. Korea's and Iran's numbers are suspect).
3. Cram the unresolved cases into the "recovered" column. Obviously wrong.
4. Wait months for a fully accurate accounting. We can't do that. We need the best estimate NOW.

The figure above is the only one we have that is available NOW, and has no data MANIPULATION or SPECULATION.




RangerJoe -> RE: FROM THE RED ZONE (3/18/2020 7:04:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

Today's worldwide figures:

Total Cases: 213557
Total Recovered: 84317
Total Deaths: 8790

Death Rate: 8790 / (8790 + 84317) = 9.4%

That's up from 8.5% yesterday.

Note that the above figures are all we have to work with. If you don't like the results you can:

1. Manipulate the data. That means cherry-picking the data you like and ignoring the data you don't like. That's an obvious vector for bias.
2. Speculate about unknowns. That seems to be the balm most of you are turning to (especially for the recoveries - not the deaths). But this will only result in a guess and everyone's guess will vary wildly. (And deaths are unknown as well - victims that died at home alone may not be found for months, and N. Korea's and Iran's numbers are suspect).
3. Cram the unresolved cases into the "recovered" column. Obviously wrong.
4. Wait months for a fully accurate accounting. We can't do that. We need the best estimate NOW.

The figure above is the only one we have that is available NOW, and has no data MANIPULATION or SPECULATION.


You are the fear monger. You are cherry picking the information to use and you have been told that it is wrong. Are you one of those hyping the bad while you are selling stuff at artificially high prices? Or are you just helping others get obscene profits?




z1812 -> RE: FROM THE RED ZONE (3/18/2020 7:06:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Red2112

It seemīs some folks here, and goverments donīt have the real facts clear yet, or simply ignor them...

1)- Unless we have enough test kitīs, and then test given, we wont know how many are infected, thus all those numbers are not worth much!
Why goverments are not doing something about the test kits is quite bizzar!

2)- The lockdown is to avoid spread to those very vunarable, and because of shortage of supplyīs and resources (medical, protection gear, personell, beds etc.).

3)- The most vunarable are the elder with heart issues, debetis, and resperotory issues. This was the case of my mother at age 86, debetis, heart issues (x2 stens) and water in lungs. She maybe would have lived for a bit more, but due to her catching the infection she died two days ago. Any one over 60 with the above mentioned health issues are at risk and should take special care! Age could go down as much as 45 if similar health issues are present, we are still not sure the effect it has on certain age, but we do know which healt issues help the virus to be deadly!

4)- We donīt know how long this will last, and/or if there will be a second or more waves! How can we know, if we donīt know how many are really infected? Staying home is just a prevention, and alot of goverments have taken there time to take on effective mesures!

5)- With regards to warmer climate, southren countryīs will dictate if itīs true or not.

A world state of siege undecover? Unfortunately we wont know the real reasons for now, what we do know itīs world-wide so we are all in it sooner or later. Personally I donīt trust ANY goverment, they are just buisiness men and only care for one thing! A similar thing with the media!

Stay home, stay safe and be open minded for whatīs up and coming.

Red

--


I am very sorry for your loss. My sympathy to you and your family.

What you have posted above is spot on.




RangerJoe -> RE: FROM THE RED ZONE (3/18/2020 7:12:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Red2112

It seemīs some folks here, and goverments donīt have the real facts clear yet, or simply ignor them...

1)- Unless we have enough test kitīs, and then test given, we wont know how many are infected, thus all those numbers are not worth much!
Why goverments are not doing something about the test kits is quite bizzar!

2)- The lockdown is to avoid spread to those very vunarable, and because of shortage of supplyīs and resources (medical, protection gear, personell, beds etc.).

3)- The most vunarable are the elder with heart issues, debetis, and resperotory issues. This was the case of my mother at age 86, debetis, heart issues (x2 stens) and water in lungs. She maybe would have lived for a bit more, but due to her catching the infection she died two days ago. Any one over 60 with the above mentioned health issues are at risk and should take special care! Age could go down as much as 45 if similar health issues are present, we are still not sure the effect it has on certain age, but we do know which healt issues help the virus to be deadly!

4)- We donīt know how long this will last, and/or if there will be a second or more waves! How can we know, if we donīt know how many are really infected? Staying home is just a prevention, and alot of goverments have taken there time to take on effective mesures!

5)- With regards to warmer climate, southren countryīs will dictate if itīs true or not.

A world state of siege undecover? Unfortunately we wont know the real reasons for now, what we do know itīs world-wide so we are all in it sooner or later. Personally I donīt trust ANY goverment, they are just buisiness men and only care for one thing! A similar thing with the media!

Stay home, stay safe and be open minded for whatīs up and coming.

Red

--



My condolences Red:

quote:


The Dash

the poem by Linda Ellis

I read of a man who stood to speak at the funeral of a friend. He referred to the dates on the tombstone from the beginning… to the end.

He noted that first came the date of birth and spoke of the following date with tears, but he said what mattered most of all was the dash between those years.

For that dash represents all the time they spent alive on earth and now only those who loved them know what that little line is worth.

For it matters not, how much we own, the cars… the house… the cash. What matters is how we live and love and how we spend our dash.

So think about this long and hard; are there things you’d like to change? For you never know how much time is left that still can be rearranged.

To be less quick to anger and show appreciation more and love the people in our lives like we’ve never loved before.

If we treat each other with respect and more often wear a smile… remembering that this special dash might only last a little while.

So when your eulogy is being read, with your life’s actions to rehash, would you be proud of the things they say about how you lived your dash?


Remember, you are part of your mother's dash. Take care and be well.

Edit: I forgot the link:

https://thedashpoem.com/




Lobster -> RE: FROM THE RED ZONE (3/18/2020 9:46:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

Today's worldwide figures:

Total Cases: 213557
Total Recovered: 84317
Total Deaths: 8790

Death Rate: 8790 / (8790 + 84317) = 9.4%

That's up from 8.5% yesterday.

Note that the above figures are all we have to work with. If you don't like the results you can:

1. Manipulate the data. That means cherry-picking the data you like and ignoring the data you don't like. That's an obvious vector for bias.
2. Speculate about unknowns. That seems to be the balm most of you are turning to (especially for the recoveries - not the deaths). But this will only result in a guess and everyone's guess will vary wildly. (And deaths are unknown as well - victims that died at home alone may not be found for months, and N. Korea's and Iran's numbers are suspect).
3. Cram the unresolved cases into the "recovered" column. Obviously wrong.
4. Wait months for a fully accurate accounting. We can't do that. We need the best estimate NOW.

The figure above is the only one we have that is available NOW, and has no data MANIPULATION or SPECULATION.


You are the fear monger. You are cherry picking the information to use and you have been told that it is wrong. Are you one of those hyping the bad while you are selling stuff at artificially high prices? Or are you just helping others get obscene profits?


FFS...why can't you people just let it go. [8|]




Lobster -> RE: FROM THE RED ZONE (3/18/2020 9:53:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Can we "flatten the curve" enough? These may be of interest:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/03/17/upshot/hospital-bed-shortages-coronavirus.html

https://projects.propublica.org/graphics/covid-hospitals


When I see sites declaring that the U.S. isn't ready for this disease all I can do is laugh at the stupidity of the people who bother to present those stories. NO COUNTRY IS OR WAS READY!! No nation has thousand and thousands of empty beds just waiting for the next pandemic. No nation has thousands and millions of tons of medical supplies and equipment stashed in warehouses 'just in case'. No one was ready. No one. We can stash away billions and trillions of tons of munitions 'just in case' but when it comes to health it's a crap shoot.




Zorch -> RE: FROM THE RED ZONE (3/18/2020 10:06:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

Today's worldwide figures:

Total Cases: 213557
Total Recovered: 84317
Total Deaths: 8790

Death Rate: 8790 / (8790 + 84317) = 9.4%

That's up from 8.5% yesterday.

Note that the above figures are all we have to work with. If you don't like the results you can:

1. Manipulate the data. That means cherry-picking the data you like and ignoring the data you don't like. That's an obvious vector for bias.
2. Speculate about unknowns. That seems to be the balm most of you are turning to (especially for the recoveries - not the deaths). But this will only result in a guess and everyone's guess will vary wildly. (And deaths are unknown as well - victims that died at home alone may not be found for months, and N. Korea's and Iran's numbers are suspect).
3. Cram the unresolved cases into the "recovered" column. Obviously wrong.
4. Wait months for a fully accurate accounting. We can't do that. We need the best estimate NOW.

The figure above is the only one we have that is available NOW, and has no data MANIPULATION or SPECULATION.

Let me know when your number reaches 100%. At that point I will go to all the active cases and let them know they have to die to support your logic.




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