RE: OT: Corona virus

RE: OT: Corona virus (Full Version)

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Lowpe -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/6/2020 3:48:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn Michigan Health Center Workers Stage “Fake Patients” In COVID19 Testing Line For CBS News May 6, 2020 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQWRCECbN-Y&feature=youtu.be Video The history of television news staging filmed broadcasts is really sop.

Canoerebel -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/6/2020 3:51:59 PM)
I assume you're kidding here. If not, we operate on such different planes that we can't have fruitful conversations about this. If you think an allegation that a governor is willing to trade lives for profit....really? quote: ORIGINAL: obvert quote: ORIGINAL: Canoerebel I read the whole thing. I've also read other articles and understand the point Abbott (and most everybody else) has been making. Yes, there are issues with easing countermeasures. We think they are manageable and we think it's worth doing. I have no issue with that position given the complexities of the situation. The only issue I have is with how his opponent characterized the governor. You didn't denounce that, but I'm pretty sure you don't find it acceptable. Without the context of the behind the scenes conversation made public, it's hard to understand the point the opponent is making. When you see it and have read the whole thing, it makes much more sense. Why denounce something that is obviously a targeted political statement? That happens on both sides as you point out. We don't have to look far to see that. The important point is to see both sides, and that is what journalism did in this case by clearly identifying parties, giving context, and showing each position. If this was a really smart and biased take on this story they would have left out the opponent's comment. That just gives anyone on the other side a way to divert from the actual situation to focus on the so-called "loathsome" critique.

MakeeLearn -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/6/2020 3:56:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kull quote: ORIGINAL: Canoerebel Kull, good to see you! You haven't posted in here in about six weeks, I think. Glad to see you back. Thanks man, all is well with the family. It felt like I had something worthwhile to add in terms of pulling data and trying to analyze what was really going on in Italy - the hardest hit place at the time with data which seemed reliable. Especially since the trajectory was heading up and the projections were calling for an apocalypse. But since then it's become apparent that ALL the data we are seeing - including deaths - is being manipulated (and therefore unreliable), and the projections are little more than dart board estimates. Especially now that we're beginning to see the first antibody studies and those are showing how far the true mortality rate deviates from the "official" numbers. And that's without accounting for the fact that perhaps 1/2 or more of the Covid deaths would have been classified as something else in the case of EVERY other dieseas. When some politicians are deliberately preventing doctors from prescribing helpful medications and even mandating that Covid patients be inserted into unprepared Nursing homes, well, you know this isn't about a disease any longer. [image]local://upfiles/55056/369FB93C7FC44134BD7E21BA4C0C9509.jpg[/image]

MakeeLearn -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/6/2020 4:01:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake You know the argument about the lockdown causing secondary health problems? I think we are there. There is anxiety breaking out all over. 8 year olds with insomnia. The moms calling in worried about their kids look like THEY need a psychiatrist. Palpitations, severe reflux with esophagitis. I am handing out omeprazole and famotidine like Christmas candies. I can't find anyone to do talk therapy so I can pass the baton a bit. The health system is suffering staggering economic losses, mostly because of loss of elective procedures. We have one medical assistant furloughed, the office RN who used to do the phone triage is farmed out to do COVID testing. Everybody wants a f'ing COVID blood test because they had a fever in January. I just want to get on sailing yacht and sail to Papaete or something...and I get seasick easy. Yep. I see it.

Canoerebel -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/6/2020 4:20:33 PM)
Mortality in New York dropped to 232 today. Yesterday's number was 260. These are substantially below the IHME projection. In fact, they're not even within the margin of error. John Dillworth has dropped into the thread a few times the past few days, so I he's probably doing okay. Perhaps he'll give an onsite update soon. I hope so.

Cap Mandrake -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/6/2020 4:22:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn Michigan Health Center Workers Stage “Fake Patients” In COVID19 Testing Line For CBS News May 6, 2020 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQWRCECbN-Y&feature=youtu.be Video Oh man, that is pathetic.

Canoerebel -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/6/2020 4:23:19 PM)
The situation in my county. Minimal new cases per day. It makes sense to ease countermeasures in jurisdictions like this one, to see if it's possible to ramp things up. We're 12 days into the easing process. [image]local://upfiles/8143/FF588432DD0D4E0C890B5F235C1D7D98.jpg[/image]

Canoerebel -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/6/2020 4:25:01 PM)
Geez. quote: ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake quote: ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn Michigan Health Center Workers Stage “Fake Patients” In COVID19 Testing Line For CBS News May 6, 2020 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQWRCECbN-Y&feature=youtu.be Video Oh man, that is pathetic.

HansBolter -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/6/2020 4:33:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lowpe Obvert, Newsguard, interesting browser addon. I did a little research on them... Here is a site I frequent, oh, this is a perspective bias tool: Homepage https://www.allsides.com/media-bias/media-bias-ratings For their review of the daily beast https://www.allsides.com/news-source/daily-beast-media-bias Putting the BBC in the middle of the road requires taking everything else on the site with a grain of salt.

HansBolter -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/6/2020 4:35:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: obvert The important point is to see both sides Correction: The important point is the see the correct side.

Sammy5IsAlive -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/6/2020 5:33:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Canoerebel The situation in my county. Minimal new cases per day. It makes sense to ease countermeasures in jurisdictions like this one, to see if it's possible to ramp things up. We're 12 days into the easing process. [image]local://upfiles/8143/FF588432DD0D4E0C890B5F235C1D7D98.jpg[/image] Very interesting to see figures at such a local level. I'm not sure plotting total cases on the same graph as new cases is a particularly good way of showing the data as the patterns of the latter will be lost in the larger scale of the former. I've had a rough go at plotting the daily new case data on it's own. It is a little difficult as the '0 days' aren't labeled and so I've had to eyeball estimate how many days there were in those gaps. So I think you can definitely see the that feared exponential curve starting to develop up to 30th/31st March before it suddenly falls away. If you were to associate the sudden drop of cases with the introduction of lockdown measures (which is by no means a given - I think the guy whose interview Lowpe posted would argue that it represents people taking their own precautions before being 'locked down') that might suggest an period between infection and case recording of c.7 days. If that were the case then it is noteworthy that 12 days after restrictions being lifted there has not yet been a big surge. I guess it depends on the extent to which people have 'gone back to normal' after the restrictions have been lifted and whether that level of normality is sustainable. [image]local://upfiles/49592/82348EF050354CBA930B074B5D75CB46.jpg[/image]

Canoerebel -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/6/2020 5:37:20 PM)
Thanks, Sammy. That's interesting. This county locked down pretty early - around 3/10. I think the mid-April spike represented an outbreak in a local nursing home (probably patients/staff tested at one time). I think, but I'm not sure, most of the earlier spike comes from the famous "choir outbreak" from an adjacent county. The number of cases added since May 3 have been 0, as of noontime today.

Sammy5IsAlive -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/6/2020 5:42:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Canoerebel Thanks, Sammy. That's interesting. This county locked down pretty early - around 3/10. The number of cases added since May 3 have been 0, as of noontime today. Ok - I was just going off the dates for introduction of measures at a state level which were a couple of weeks later I think? How typical is it for counties that to be that far ahead of the state measures? Again making the assumption of an association with lockdown measures and that big drop in daily cases at the end of March that would suggest a c.3 week lag if your county introduced things on the 10th. In which case it would be another week before we start seeing what happens? The good news is that as you say nothing has happened yet [:)].

Canoerebel -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/6/2020 5:51:12 PM)
Georgia counties and cities were free to impose their own measures deeply into March. Many or most did. The state came along late in March, mainly due to the fact that the local governments had a good handle on things. The statewide measures were basically the same that had already existed for about three weeks. We discussed this progression in here at deep, unharmonious length. At least three forumites (one US, two UK) were adamant that leaving things to local jurisdictions in the US was a very, very, very bad thing. I countered that "pushing the power down" to the local level, whenever possible, is a good thing. I think this resulted from a deep divide. Some people are comfortable with big government; others prefer small government. Some people want national decisions, some want local. Some want national healthcare, others prefer private (or as private as possible). Much later (about a week ago) I wondered aloud in this thread if the local decision-making might have been one reason that Georgians haven't engaged in the kinds of protests seen in so many states. When it's your neighbor making decisions, perhaps one doesn't feel powerless. Also, the precautions seemed sensible and most everyone was aboard.

Sammy5IsAlive -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/6/2020 6:00:54 PM)
Thanks! Very interesting.

Kull -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/6/2020 6:06:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lowpe quote: ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn Michigan Health Center Workers Stage “Fake Patients” In COVID19 Testing Line For CBS News May 6, 2020 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQWRCECbN-Y&feature=youtu.be Video The history of television news staging filmed broadcasts is really sop. To be fair, if you listen to the whole thing it's quite possible that CBS was not aware that the testing line was staged. However, when you hear the commentary on the morning show which used the footage, it was clearly intended to drive the "not enough testing" agenda currently being pushed by those on the left as an excuse to continue indefinite lockdowns. Edit: In order to conceal his identity, the "insider" who captured the video is masked and has a heavily altered voice during the sitdown interview with Veritas. However, throughout the camera video you can hear his unaltered voice as he talks with the other employees. Ooops!

Lowpe -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/6/2020 6:10:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HansBolter quote: ORIGINAL: Lowpe Obvert, Newsguard, interesting browser addon. I did a little research on them... Here is a site I frequent, oh, this is a perspective bias tool: Homepage https://www.allsides.com/media-bias/media-bias-ratings For their review of the daily beast https://www.allsides.com/news-source/daily-beast-media-bias Putting the BBC in the middle of the road requires taking everything else on the site with a grain of salt. Nah, it is a perspective rating.

Lowpe -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/6/2020 6:23:55 PM)
New York and California are infamous for having the most aggressive out of state audits. Cuomo: Out-of-State Health Care Workers Who Came to New York to Help Now Subject to NY State Income Tax https://legalinsurrection.com/2020/05/cuomo-health-care-workers-who-volunteered-to-help-with-covid-19-must-pay-state-income-tax/

Sammy5IsAlive -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/6/2020 6:35:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lowpe quote: ORIGINAL: HansBolter quote: ORIGINAL: Lowpe Obvert, Newsguard, interesting browser addon. I did a little research on them... Here is a site I frequent, oh, this is a perspective bias tool: Homepage https://www.allsides.com/media-bias/media-bias-ratings For their review of the daily beast https://www.allsides.com/news-source/daily-beast-media-bias Putting the BBC in the middle of the road requires taking everything else on the site with a grain of salt. Nah, it is a perspective rating. One of the things I find interesting in this thread are the similarities between some of the commentary on the media seen here and that which I've seen over the last years from Corbyn/Labour supporters in the UK. The latter are convinced that the 'MSM' (television/radio/print journalism) is institutionally right-wing and that it has been (now was) conspiring to frustrate and prevent any sort of success from Corbyn's Labour. The BBC is seen by them as one of the worst offenders - a wolf in sheep's clothing. At the same time for the last few years the Conservative party has been convinced that the BBC has been pushing a 'soft left' anti-Brexit agenda. For me if they are managing to upset both sides of the argument they must be doing something right! As a news organisation at least I'd suggest the BBC is pretty much as down the middle as you are going to get. That side of things is separate from it's role as a 'content creator' in which it has no explicit obligation to be 'impartial'. That separation is not just an airy-fairy ideal - it is a fundamentally expressed in the Royal Charter under which it operates.

obvert -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/6/2020 6:59:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lowpe Obvert, Newsguard, interesting browser addon. I did a little research on them... Here is a site I frequent, oh, this is a perspective bias tool: Homepage https://www.allsides.com/media-bias/media-bias-ratings For their review of the daily beast https://www.allsides.com/news-source/daily-beast-media-bias I've used them before as well. The issue is that they are also user rated, so it all depends on who visits and cares enough to rate a site. That at least pushes their metrics a bit and who knows who visits?

Lovejoy -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/6/2020 6:59:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive As a news organisation at least I'd suggest the BBC is pretty much as down the middle as you are going to get. That side of things is separate from it's role as a 'content creator' in which it has no explicit obligation to be 'impartial'. That separation is not just an airy-fairy ideal - it is a fundamentally expressed in the Royal Charter under which it operates. I agree with this, and that the Labour Party and the Conservative Party both complain that it's biased against them. I think they don't like the BBC's tendency to report inconvenient facts that the parties would prefer to keep quiet.[;)]

obvert -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/6/2020 7:01:56 PM)
You're commenting a political statement by one political officer vs another. I'm not going there, nor should you. That it's being reported is completely fair. How else would you have known and been able to be so vehemently denounce it? quote: ORIGINAL: Canoerebel I assume you're kidding here. If not, we operate on such different planes that we can't have fruitful conversations about this. If you think an allegation that a governor is willing to trade lives for profit....really? quote: ORIGINAL: obvert quote: ORIGINAL: Canoerebel I read the whole thing. I've also read other articles and understand the point Abbott (and most everybody else) has been making. Yes, there are issues with easing countermeasures. We think they are manageable and we think it's worth doing. I have no issue with that position given the complexities of the situation. The only issue I have is with how his opponent characterized the governor. You didn't denounce that, but I'm pretty sure you don't find it acceptable. Without the context of the behind the scenes conversation made public, it's hard to understand the point the opponent is making. When you see it and have read the whole thing, it makes much more sense. Why denounce something that is obviously a targeted political statement? That happens on both sides as you point out. We don't have to look far to see that. The important point is to see both sides, and that is what journalism did in this case by clearly identifying parties, giving context, and showing each position. If this was a really smart and biased take on this story they would have left out the opponent's comment. That just gives anyone on the other side a way to divert from the actual situation to focus on the so-called "loathsome" critique.

Lowpe -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/6/2020 7:08:11 PM)
On the hourly radio update, can't even tell you which service (abc, cbs, nbc or fox), they played a quote from Gov Cuomo who said that new infections are primarily coming from the people in NY that are in lockdown and that NY is very surprised by this. I will look for some links, but anybody else hear it?

Cap Mandrake -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/6/2020 7:10:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lovejoy quote: ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive As a news organisation at least I'd suggest the BBC is pretty much as down the middle as you are going to get. That side of things is separate from it's role as a 'content creator' in which it has no explicit obligation to be 'impartial'. That separation is not just an airy-fairy ideal - it is a fundamentally expressed in the Royal Charter under which it operates. I agree with this, and that the Labour Party and the Conservative Party both complain that it's biased against them. I think they don't like the BBC's tendency to report inconvenient facts that the parties would prefer to keep quiet.[;)] Dr Who is obviously sexist. Anti-robot too[;)] It does seem to me as an outsider that the BBC has been pro-remain but that weather sea report thingy is soporifically neutral

MakeeLearn -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/6/2020 7:15:05 PM)
Cuomo says it’s ‘shocking’ most new coronavirus hospitalizations are people who had been staying homeWed, May 6 2020 https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/06/ny-gov-cuomo-says-its-shocking-most-new-coronavirus-hospitalizations-are-people-staying-home.html "Early look at data from 100 New York hospitals shows that 66% of new admissions related to the virus are people who were at home, Cuomo said. " "He also said a majority of the cases in New York City are minorities, with nearly half being African American or Hispanic. " "Most new Covid-19 hospitalizations in New York state are from people who were staying home and not venturing much outside, a “shocking” finding, Gov. Andrew Cuomo said Wednesday. The preliminary data was from 100 New York hospitals involving about 1,000 patients, Cuomo said at his daily briefing. It shows that 66% of new admissions were from people who had largely been sheltering at home. The next highest source of admissions was from nursing homes, 18%."

Canoerebel -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/6/2020 7:15:22 PM)
My comment was in reply to a post by Sammy and was pertinent and appropriate to the discussion. quote: ORIGINAL: obvert You're commenting a political statement by one political officer vs another. I'm not going there, nor should you. That it's being reported is completely fair. How else would you have known and been able to be so vehemently denounce it? quote: ORIGINAL: Canoerebel I assume you're kidding here. If not, we operate on such different planes that we can't have fruitful conversations about this. If you think an allegation that a governor is willing to trade lives for profit....really? quote: ORIGINAL: obvert quote: ORIGINAL: Canoerebel I read the whole thing. I've also read other articles and understand the point Abbott (and most everybody else) has been making. Yes, there are issues with easing countermeasures. We think they are manageable and we think it's worth doing. I have no issue with that position given the complexities of the situation. The only issue I have is with how his opponent characterized the governor. You didn't denounce that, but I'm pretty sure you don't find it acceptable. Without the context of the behind the scenes conversation made public, it's hard to understand the point the opponent is making. When you see it and have read the whole thing, it makes much more sense. Why denounce something that is obviously a targeted political statement? That happens on both sides as you point out. We don't have to look far to see that. The important point is to see both sides, and that is what journalism did in this case by clearly identifying parties, giving context, and showing each position. If this was a really smart and biased take on this story they would have left out the opponent's comment. That just gives anyone on the other side a way to divert from the actual situation to focus on the so-called "loathsome" critique.

Canoerebel -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/6/2020 7:16:47 PM)
Wow, that's something. But it doesn't seem like people are staying at home, judging from the photos of sunbathers in New York parks over the weekend. quote: ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn Cuomo says it’s ‘shocking’ most new coronavirus hospitalizations are people who had been staying homeWed, May 6 2020 https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/06/ny-gov-cuomo-says-its-shocking-most-new-coronavirus-hospitalizations-are-people-staying-home.html "Early look at data from 100 New York hospitals shows that 66% of new admissions related to the virus are people who were at home, Cuomo said. " "He also said a majority of the cases in New York City are minorities, with nearly half being African American or Hispanic. " "Most new Covid-19 hospitalizations in New York state are from people who were staying home and not venturing much outside, a “shocking” finding, Gov. Andrew Cuomo said Wednesday. The preliminary data was from 100 New York hospitals involving about 1,000 patients, Cuomo said at his daily briefing. It shows that 66% of new admissions were from people who had largely been sheltering at home. The next highest source of admissions was from nursing homes, 18%."

MakeeLearn -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/6/2020 7:18:27 PM)
Virus Survey Finds Most Patients Retired or Unemployed: Live Updates Hospitals in New York State reported that only 17 percent of recently admitted patients were working, Governor Cuomo said. May 6 2020 https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/06/nyregion/coronavirus-new-york-update.html#link-bbb1a5b "New York State has been shut down for six weeks. Social distancing has become the norm. Face masks are everywhere. And yet more than 20,000 people a week in the state are still testing positive for the coronavirus. In the past week, more than 5,000 virus patients entered hospitals. Who are they? Officials have surveyed hospitals to find out, and Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo said that he was surprised by the results he was reporting on Wednesday. More than four in five patients were retired or unemployed. Only 17 percent were working. “We were thinking that maybe we were going to find a higher percentage of essential employees who were getting sick because they were going to work, that these may be nurses, doctors, transit workers,” Mr. Cuomo said. “That’s not the case.”"

Canoerebel -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/6/2020 7:19:04 PM)
From the New York Times, a few days ago. [image]local://upfiles/8143/C218347B9645417DAD5C3376498E4686.jpg[/image]

Lowpe -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/6/2020 7:19:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn Cuomo says it’s ‘shocking’ most new coronavirus hospitalizations are people who had been staying homeWed, May 6 2020 https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/06/ny-gov-cuomo-says-its-shocking-most-new-coronavirus-hospitalizations-are-people-staying-home.html "Early look at data from 100 New York hospitals shows that 66% of new admissions related to the virus are people who were at home, Cuomo said. " "He also said a majority of the cases in New York City are minorities, with nearly half being African American or Hispanic. " "Most new Covid-19 hospitalizations in New York state are from people who were staying home and not venturing much outside, a “shocking” finding, Gov. Andrew Cuomo said Wednesday. The preliminary data was from 100 New York hospitals involving about 1,000 patients, Cuomo said at his daily briefing. It shows that 66% of new admissions were from people who had largely been sheltering at home. The next highest source of admissions was from nursing homes, 18%." Interesting. Small n. Since New York is 28% Latino and 24% African American it makes sense they comprise nearly half of cases.

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