RE: OT: Corona virus (Full Version)

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RangerJoe -> RE: OT: Corona virus (3/13/2020 1:28:57 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

This is disturbing:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/iran-coronavirus-outbreak-graves/?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most


A nice article. I would comment further but that might get me banned.



spence -> RE: OT: Corona virus (3/13/2020 1:31:03 AM)

quote:

Every person in the USA has access to healthcare and knows it. You go to an emergency room, you're treated. If you need admission, you're admitted. So everybody goes there, in times of need, instead of to a doctor's office. Whether you can pay or not, you get great healthcare. And you get it fast.


Resulting in US health care being overall the most expensive in the world. Yea, rah, rah,
we're #1!!!



RangerJoe -> RE: OT: Corona virus (3/13/2020 1:40:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

Only China and Korea made managed to slow this down. What did they do? Quarantine. They found home confinement useless. They test every one. If you have it, or have a fever, you are sent to a fever clinic. No choice. Home confinement has only led to families becoming infected. We are still in denial. Shut everything down. Test everyone. Isolate the sick or infected. China and Korea are doing a fine job of feeding their people and they have far less food resources than we do. What’s your plan? Wait for it to go away? Have the Federal reserve do another rate cut? It’s here and it is spreading at an exponential rate. Harsh measures are in order. Or maybe it’s time for a rude tweet? We have no real plan to slow the infection rate. This is not an economical problem. We need science here. In NY state we have 28 labs ready and fully equipped to start testing. The only thing holding up that testing is the Federal Government needs to approve testing. So far they have refused! 28 labs ready to test and the Federal Government will not approve! This is madness


I know. Take everyone and their families who has the virus and put them in camps surrounded by barbed wire. Take their personal possessions away from them and either destroy those possessions or sterilize them. If they are sterilized, then sell them at local thrift stores since there won't be any new goods going through the distribution system to regular stores.

The people in camps will be allowed to work but won't be fed enough due to corruption as well as the attitude "They are going to die anyway!" Since their personal clothing is now gone and they are in camps, give them all a unique outfit so they can easily be seen if they should leave the camps. Since they are going to die and their bodies may still carry the disease, have large cremation ovens. Since they are going to be cremated, make sure that any gold teeth are removed.

The guards should all have a nice uniform. Maybe a nice black (for mourning) with nice black boots. To show where they work so people will respect them, have a symbol like a skull (to show that they work around death) on their uniform.

To insure that the rest of the population stays in line, how about have check points where police check peoples papers to make sure that they are actually allowed to travel? With corona virus 19 checks as well? With secret police in plain clothes everywhere as well?

Is that what you want?


A little hysterical, no? Oh, and you forgot the part where big GUB-MINT takes you guns away



But the government took the guns away first.



Canoerebel -> RE: OT: Corona virus (3/13/2020 1:43:56 AM)

I don't know if we have the most expensive healthcare system in the world. If we do, however, we are also about the wealthiest nation in the world. If I make $300 a year in Chad, I can't afford a $50 doctor bill. But if I live in the USA and make $75,000, I can afford a $10,000 medical bill. And if I can't afford it, I can go to the doctor anyway and be taken care of. And if I don't think I can afford it, my neighbors or my church will raise the money, partly because they're nice people and partly because we're a wealthy country. I'd rather be here than anywhere in the world when it comes to healthcare, whatever it's cost.


quote:

ORIGINAL: spence

quote:

Every person in the USA has access to healthcare and knows it. You go to an emergency room, you're treated. If you need admission, you're admitted. So everybody goes there, in times of need, instead of to a doctor's office. Whether you can pay or not, you get great healthcare. And you get it fast.


Resulting in US health care being overall the most expensive in the world. Yea, rah, rah,
we're #1!!!




Canoerebel -> RE: OT: Corona virus (3/13/2020 1:53:38 AM)

Edit: Wait a minute, I can't say that!



Canoerebel -> RE: OT: Corona virus (3/13/2020 1:56:27 AM)

Edit: That's better left unsaid too.

But the final thought was fine: This is a community of smart, kind, well-intentioned people trying to understand a novel situation. Let's keep trying, while striving to maintain decorum.



Chickenboy -> RE: OT: Corona virus (3/13/2020 2:28:20 AM)

We're taking the family to camp at a regional renaissance faire-the same one we've been to every year we've been here. It's fighting the panicker tide by specifically announcing that they're going to be open this weekend. So I'll be enjoying the bawdy songs and the mead come what may.

See you guys on Monday. Hope everyone has a good weekend.



Canoerebel -> RE: OT: Corona virus (3/13/2020 2:31:13 AM)

Hey, that's too terse, Chickenboy! Did you know I yearn (yes, I yearn!) for your thoughts and insights?

Seriously. But I also understand your reticence to get embroiled or offer opinions, given your professional situation.

You and yours have a great time.



Anachro -> RE: OT: Corona virus (3/13/2020 2:37:47 AM)

I'm supposed to run a 10k at Disneyworld in a month. Not sure it's gonna happen, but the weather's getting warmer!



Chickenboy -> RE: OT: Corona virus (3/13/2020 2:38:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Hey, that's too terse, Chickenboy! Did you know I yearn (yes, I yearn!) for your thoughts and insights?

Seriously. But I also understand your reticence to get embroiled or offer opinions, given your professional situation.

You and yours have a great time.



Hey Canoerebel,

Yeah, I'm kind of done with the arguing about people about COVID-19 thing for the time being. It seems like everybody's got an opinion and it usually gets conflated with their political viewpoint du jour. So I'll be social distancing myself from this thread for a time.

I consider most everyone here at least good acquaintances. Some friends. I'm happy to engage with anybody with some specific questions-PM me if you want and I'll try my best to answer.



Zorch -> RE: OT: Corona virus (3/13/2020 2:40:03 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

We're taking the family to camp at a regional renaissance faire-the same one we've been to every year we've been here. It's fighting the panicker tide by specifically announcing that they're going to be open this weekend. So I'll be enjoying the bawdy songs and the mead come what may.

See you guys on Monday. Hope everyone has a good weekend.

Have fun - and don't go near the Black Plague exhibit.

My county is in lockdown - all schools, community centers, gyms, and entertainment venues in Montgomery County, PA are closed for 14 days. No mass gatherings should be held, including conferences and rallies. Non-essential retail facilities are strongly recommended to close.



Chickenboy -> RE: OT: Corona virus (3/13/2020 2:43:43 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

We're taking the family to camp at a regional renaissance faire-the same one we've been to every year we've been here. It's fighting the panicker tide by specifically announcing that they're going to be open this weekend. So I'll be enjoying the bawdy songs and the mead come what may.

See you guys on Monday. Hope everyone has a good weekend.

Have fun - and don't go near the Black Plague exhibit.

My county is in lockdown - all schools, community centers, gyms, and entertainment venues in Montgomery County, PA are closed for 14 days. No mass gatherings should be held, including conferences and rallies. Non-essential retail facilities are strongly recommended to close.


Sorry to hear about your lockdown, Zilch.

As for the plague exhibit-Mrs. Chickenboy and I were joking that we'd have to be sure to buy one of those plague doctor masks if they were on sale.



Canoerebel -> RE: OT: Corona virus (3/13/2020 2:48:22 AM)

That makes sense, Chickenboy (your stand-down comments). That may be the model to follow.



Canoerebel -> RE: OT: Corona virus (3/13/2020 2:49:21 AM)

Here's some totals as of the 12th, along with some of my musings.

[image]local://upfiles/8143/6276A0A64DD94A469D74F9582618F0EF.jpg[/image]



durnedwolf -> RE: OT: Corona virus (3/13/2020 3:08:32 AM)

From Mark-II eyeball observation, it appears that fewer Americans are picking their noses. Has anyone noticed the same observations?

If this keeps up, Herman might become a thing of the past...




CaptBeefheart -> RE: OT: Corona virus (3/13/2020 3:18:23 AM)

Korea seems to have turned the corner. At least I hope so. Yesterday evening the top three political parties sent spokesmen to talk to the foreign journos at the Press Club (there's a legislative election coming up). It was my first chance to have beers with some mates in a while. I even heard the British Embassy pub may re-open in April.

One of the interesting things I recently read is a lot of lessons were learned in Korea from the MERS outbreak in 2015. That one hit Korea hardest outside the Middle East. One of the lessons? Keep potential carriers out of the hospitals, hence drive-through testing or setting up tents outside the hospital where people can walk up to get tested. Another lesson? It took too long to get approval to make test kits. Hence the test kit development and approval process was greatly streamlined, with the result that Korea has a higher percentage of testing than anywhere. The U.S. has seriously dropped the ball (read: CDC and FDA) on that.

Obvert: Thanks for the news from from GreyJoy. It sounds like Italy didn't take this seriously until it was too late.

CR: I like your attitude. This thing can and will be beaten. The stock market will recover. Businesses will recover. Cruise ships? Well, I've never been interested in the things in the first place, as group travel is not my bag. But, in time they'll likely recover as well.

Cheers,
CB



durnedwolf -> RE: OT: Corona virus (3/13/2020 3:20:49 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Here's some totals as of the 12th, along with some of my musings.

[image]local://upfiles/8143/6276A0A64DD94A469D74F9582618F0EF.jpg[/image]


Regarding the 10 critical cases: and 41 deaths... Still, I'd note the following math below:

41 / 1727 = 0.0237 - just the deaths

51 / 1727 = 0.0295 - if all of those in critical condition pass on.

And last I'd echo the thought of some of the others that have posted here that these numbers are probably worthless because we have so far failed to implement the quarantine procedures and full-court-press testing procedures implemented in countries like S. Korea.



BBfanboy -> RE: OT: Corona virus (3/13/2020 4:52:22 AM)

An interesting item in the news - the US is having trouble getting enough of the swabs sticks used to take the samples for testing. Turns out the entire world supply of these sticks comes from .... northern Italy! The factory is still churning them out but may not be able to keep up with demand.

So do we laugh at the irony [:'(] or shake our heads at a serious flaw in the world's public health planning? [sm=nono.gif]



CaptBeefheart -> RE: OT: Corona virus (3/13/2020 6:21:53 AM)

I think the lesson that supply chains need to diversify has hit home this time. Let's hope people don't forget in five years.

Cheers,
CB



RangerJoe -> RE: OT: Corona virus (3/13/2020 7:26:01 AM)

The main supplier of the plastic plasma bags was in Puerto Rico until Hurricane Maria.

The main place where the protective gowns are made, as well as other medical supplies are made, are in Xiantao, China. Guess what happened to most of those factories? This is according to a New York Times article in their business section, dated 18 February 2020.

Diversify the location of these critical medical supplies.



obvert -> RE: OT: Corona virus (3/13/2020 9:28:10 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

The main supplier of the plastic plasma bags was in Puerto Rico until Hurricane Maria.

The main place where the protective gowns are made, as well as other medical supplies are made, are in Xiantao, China. Guess what happened to most of those factories? This is according to a New York Times article in their business section, dated 18 February 2020.

Diversify the location of these critical medical supplies.


Where are respiration machines made?

And N95 masks?





obvert -> RE: OT: Corona virus (3/13/2020 9:44:51 AM)

Here in London the UK has moved to second stage of the govt's plan, with criticism coming from both experts and of course opposition parties about the lack of more extreme measures.

My school closed today due to a parent testing positive. Interestingly the school was not notified but saw it first on the BBC.

The parent is Mikel Arteta, head football coach for Arsenal.

This may lead to an extended closure but it will definitely lead a a deep clean and many families self-isolating children, many teachers staying home, and the community slowly shrinking even if open.

This has been a great thread, and really good for all of us to keep abreast of things. We will disagree, but hopefully we can agree to steer toward the middle of the road on politics and just talk about stats, hopes, fears, protections, etc.

The GreyJoy note actually made me feel a bit resigned to my situation, which is all of our situations. For those who have not travelled a lot, or may think one country is better positioned than others, it's really not a useful comparison now. The reality is this is now being spoken of by those who are experts as something that will be around for a good while even if current outbreaks reach peaks and decline in the near future as China has done.

It will by all accounts be back in the autumn in the North, affect the Southern Hemisphere more severely over the next five to six months, and may even mutate into unknown strains.

If my wife wasn't about to give birth I would hope to just get it now and go through whatever happens, as this is very likely during the next 12 months anyway. Right now only .0015% of the UK population most likely are positive (using Boris' speculative high estimate of 10k current cases). There are a higher proportion in London for sure, so maybe .005% of London's population are now infected. It is still statistically rare, and my chances of dying from falling down the stairs are probably around the same as dying from this in my current health condition.

That isn't the point though. It's a time to take care for those more vulnerable, those who have been unlucky in contraction and severity, and those who have no choice but to be exposed in their work as health care professionals and public safety professionals.



mind_messing -> RE: OT: Corona virus (3/13/2020 9:44:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

We're taking the family to camp at a regional renaissance faire-the same one we've been to every year we've been here. It's fighting the panicker tide by specifically announcing that they're going to be open this weekend. So I'll be enjoying the bawdy songs and the mead come what may.

See you guys on Monday. Hope everyone has a good weekend.


This right here is why the measures taken in China and elsewhere are such a challenge for other nations to implement.



obvert -> RE: OT: Corona virus (3/13/2020 9:52:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

We're taking the family to camp at a regional renaissance faire-the same one we've been to every year we've been here. It's fighting the panicker tide by specifically announcing that they're going to be open this weekend. So I'll be enjoying the bawdy songs and the mead come what may.

See you guys on Monday. Hope everyone has a good weekend.


This right here is why the measures taken in China and elsewhere are such a challenge for other nations to implement.


In terms of flattening the curve that is true. The UK is also struggling with that in terms of not mandating large gatherings be suspended.

I have noticed much less population density out in the city though in the past day after we moved to denial. The tube was silent at 10pm on Thursday, which is extremely rare as that is a big night for going out usually. Only three on my car going home from an evening of board game play at my school. [:)]

I am due to see the Wrath of Khan and a post film talk by William Shatner at a 3,500 capacity venue on Monday. No word yet it's cancelled.



mind_messing -> RE: OT: Corona virus (3/13/2020 9:54:16 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I don't know if we have the most expensive healthcare system in the world. If we do, however, we are also about the wealthiest nation in the world. If I make $300 a year in Chad, I can't afford a $50 doctor bill. But if I live in the USA and make $75,000, I can afford a $10,000 medical bill. And if I can't afford it, I can go to the doctor anyway and be taken care of. And if I don't think I can afford it, my neighbors or my church will raise the money, partly because they're nice people and partly because we're a wealthy country. I'd rather be here than anywhere in the world when it comes to healthcare, whatever it's cost.


quote:

ORIGINAL: spence

quote:

Every person in the USA has access to healthcare and knows it. You go to an emergency room, you're treated. If you need admission, you're admitted. So everybody goes there, in times of need, instead of to a doctor's office. Whether you can pay or not, you get great healthcare. And you get it fast.


Resulting in US health care being overall the most expensive in the world. Yea, rah, rah,
we're #1!!!




How many Americans make $75,000 a year?

Median US wage is $31,000 per year.

Suddenly that $10,000 medical bill seems a bit more of a problem, doesn't it?



mind_messing -> RE: OT: Corona virus (3/13/2020 9:57:25 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

We're taking the family to camp at a regional renaissance faire-the same one we've been to every year we've been here. It's fighting the panicker tide by specifically announcing that they're going to be open this weekend. So I'll be enjoying the bawdy songs and the mead come what may.

See you guys on Monday. Hope everyone has a good weekend.


This right here is why the measures taken in China and elsewhere are such a challenge for other nations to implement.


In terms of flattening the curve that is true. The UK is also struggling with that in terms of not mandating large gatherings be suspended.

I have noticed much less population density out in the city though in the past day after we moved to denial. The tube was silent at 10pm on Thursday, which is extremely rare as that is a big night for going out usually. Only three on my car going home from an evening of board game play at my school. [:)]

I am due to see the Wrath of Khan and a post film talk by William Shatner at a 3,500 capacity venue on Monday. No word yet it's cancelled.


We've started up here, events for 500 or more canceled from Monday. Reasoning is to free up emergency services from attending these events but I'd imagine we'll follow the rest of the UK in wider measures as and when.

I've started to see stuff getting cancelled, mostly academic events and conferences and so on.



JohnDillworth -> RE: OT: Corona virus (3/13/2020 10:11:55 AM)

Dan if my references have been vailed I apologize. I will say it outright. Trump is failing this at every level and is not up to the job. He is actually making things worse. Still in NYC and still waiting for the feds to approve NYC administering tests. This is what failure looks like. As for the N1H1 flu? It was that exactly. A Flu. As Cheeto Jesus himself said, Thousands die from the flu each year. This is not the flu. It looks nothing like it. It is a different virus entirely. It is closely related to SARS. It’s actual scientific name is SARS-CoV-2. How did we do during the last SARS outbreak? Which had an all together outcome as I recall. And again I ask, what Federal steps have been taken to slow the rate of infection? The virus is here, locking the doors is way too late. Where are the tests? Why can’t NYC be given permission by the feds to test? The fraud of Fifth Avenue will continue to try and take care of his billionaire buddies but he is doing nothing to stop the spread of this. Trump fired the entire CDC Pandemic response team just because Obama appointed them. Do you think a CDC global pandemic response team might have come in handy in the last couple of months? This is what failure looks like. BTW, do you think a full weekend of golf last week was a good look? Asking for a concerned country.


-- No Politics please, see my reply further down.



JohnDillworth -> RE: OT: Corona virus (3/13/2020 10:14:03 AM)

I’m at one of the 911 call centers this morning locking some stuff down. The youngsters have renamed Covid-19 “THE BOOMER REMOVER”! [X(][X(][X(]



obvert -> RE: OT: Corona virus (3/13/2020 10:17:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

We're taking the family to camp at a regional renaissance faire-the same one we've been to every year we've been here. It's fighting the panicker tide by specifically announcing that they're going to be open this weekend. So I'll be enjoying the bawdy songs and the mead come what may.

See you guys on Monday. Hope everyone has a good weekend.


This right here is why the measures taken in China and elsewhere are such a challenge for other nations to implement.


In terms of flattening the curve that is true. The UK is also struggling with that in terms of not mandating large gatherings be suspended.

I have noticed much less population density out in the city though in the past day after we moved to denial. The tube was silent at 10pm on Thursday, which is extremely rare as that is a big night for going out usually. Only three on my car going home from an evening of board game play at my school. [:)]

I am due to see the Wrath of Khan and a post film talk by William Shatner at a 3,500 capacity venue on Monday. No word yet it's cancelled.


We've started up here, events for 500 or more canceled from Monday. Reasoning is to free up emergency services from attending these events but I'd imagine we'll follow the rest of the UK in wider measures as and when.

I've started to see stuff getting cancelled, mostly academic events and conferences and so on.


Yes, and most if not all business conferences and large meetings. It's being handled well in the private sector as well with most major companies mandating work from home for the majority of staff where possible.

Things like sporting events will be cancelled soon, but possibly by the leagues, not govt. All Arsenal players and staff are out for the count now with Arteta being positive, and I'm sure a lot more will be testing thoroughly. That means many games would not be able to be played, and they'll realise it all just ha to be suspended.

Films, concerts, theatre, talks, etc should stop necessarily as both organisers, participants and public isolate.

I know it will happen but it's not being centrally mandated yet which is odd since they also must see the writing on the wall about how this works.



obvert -> RE: OT: Corona virus (3/13/2020 10:20:45 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

I’m at one of the 911 call centers this morning locking some stuff down. The youngsters have renamed Covid-19 “THE BOOMER REMOVER”! [X(][X(][X(]


Denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance. The young have skipped a few steps. I was seeing a lot of morbid humour around school in the teenage community too.



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