RE: OT: Corona virus

RE: OT: Corona virus (Full Version)

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Footslogger -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/8/2020 2:35:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn Need change... [image]local://upfiles/55056/058D5C2601D34473B9B8A1392061738F.jpg[/image] Bank Notes Hugh? Doing this in your free time? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GMw9HT1cCU [sm=sign0006.gif]

MakeeLearn -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/8/2020 2:35:29 AM)
Pelosi to lay down multitrillion-dollar marker with new coronavirus package The speaker isn’t yet negotiating with Republicans or the White House on the next aid bill. 05/07/2020 05:23 PM EDT https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/07/house-relief-bill-coronavirus-243490 "Speaker Nancy Pelosi is speeding to finalize a multitrillion-dollar coronavirus relief package, hoping to put the bill on the House floor next week — a timeline that even some senior Democrats dismiss as unlikely." "“We have an emergency of such magnitude that no one has ever seen before. This is probably the worst situation that is only getting worse and should be getting better,” Pelosi told reporters earlier Thursday. " "We have an emergency of such magnitude that no one has ever seen before"

MakeeLearn -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/8/2020 2:40:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Footslogger quote: ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn Need change... Bank Notes Hugh? Doing this in your free time? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GMw9HT1cCU [sm=sign0006.gif] FBI got there fast. No printing needed....DIGITAL MONEY.

RangerJoe -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/8/2020 2:47:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn Pelosi to lay down multitrillion-dollar marker with new coronavirus package The speaker isn’t yet negotiating with Republicans or the White House on the next aid bill. 05/07/2020 05:23 PM EDT https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/07/house-relief-bill-coronavirus-243490 "Speaker Nancy Pelosi is speeding to finalize a multitrillion-dollar coronavirus relief package, hoping to put the bill on the House floor next week — a timeline that even some senior Democrats dismiss as unlikely." "“We have an emergency of such magnitude that no one has ever seen before. This is probably the worst situation that is only getting worse and should be getting better,” Pelosi told reporters earlier Thursday. " "We have an emergency of such magnitude that no one has ever seen before" The only part of the US Government that makes cents is the US Mint.

witpqs -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/8/2020 2:52:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake quote: ORIGINAL: Lowpe This is the New York state order for Nursing Homes to accept covid positive patients. March 25. It is for all Nursing Homes, not just the state administered ones like I previously thought. [image]local://upfiles/44178/8F0AB1654D4546E89CB86527D9CFC773.jpg[/image] Even though this looks terrible I can understand the motivation. The system is built on having the safety valve of lower level of care facilities for patients not sick enough for the expensive high support care of acute care hospitals. These are patients that need either permanent of extended support like physical therapy or injectable medications or even finish out antibiotic therapies. Sadly, these are often patients who have no or incompetent family support. Almost all could be managed at home with home nursing or nursing aides if their "family" gave a damn or didn't have other social problems. The problem is the level of expertise is not the same as an acute care hospital and the caregiver might have 8 or more patients each and the economic margins are thinner so they likely skimp on PPE. Sending COVID patients still excreting virus to such a facility is signing a death warrant to the uninfected patients there because they ALL have pre-existing conditions. And they prohibited[/b] testing the patients. [X(]

witpqs -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/8/2020 2:52:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake quote: ORIGINAL: obvert quote: ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake Much of the original outbreak in South Korea was specific to one large church, which lent itself to effective contact tracing. The leader of the church was forced to apologize on live TV. [:D] To say there are no cultural reasons for their success is idiotic. https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-a-south-korean-church-was-the-perfect-petri-dish-for-coronavirus-11583082110 Who said there are no cultural reasons for their success? Or are you saying other countries are incapable of doing what they're doing because of a lack of these "cultural reasons?" The author of The Atlantic article you cited said exactly that. It is absolutely true they had superior contact tracing. No doubt about it. As I understand it they had a war room like set-up dedicated to respond to viral outbreaks and had clearly rehearsed and trained for it. If you ask me, THAT is the lesson. You have to spend the money to maintain a trained, full-time, substantial infrastructure in the years BEFORE the outbreak that can be unleashed on day 1. I think they had a wake-up call with SARS-1 in HK and Taiwan. +1 And that is why I have posted several articles about attempts to maintain readiness in the US being undermined time and time again.

MakeeLearn -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/8/2020 2:52:29 AM)
... [image]local://upfiles/55056/87C975B06CFD4FCEBEE75BCDE68382FC.jpg[/image]

Cap Mandrake -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/8/2020 3:00:00 AM)
Everett Dirksen, former Speaker of the House (D) once said ""A billion here, a billion there, pretty soon, you're talking real money." He would soil himself.

warspite1 -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/8/2020 4:54:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RangerJoe quote: ORIGINAL: warspite1 quote: ORIGINAL: Chickenboy quote: ORIGINAL: warspite1 quote: ORIGINAL: RangerJoe quote: ORIGINAL: Lowpe quote: ORIGINAL: Canoerebel I've barely followed this story until today. Looks grim. Did the governor have options or were his hands basically tied? Did the severity of the outbreak leave him no good choices? I don't know much about Cuomo, but I'd assume any governor is trying to do his best under difficult circumstances. My best guess is to say it never really reached Cuomo, a decision was made down the line probably to save money as nursing homes cost less than hospitals. You probably could count on one hand the state administered nursing homes that could safely handle positive covid patients. Harry S Truman had a sign on his desk "The buck stops here" and maybe some people need to remember that. warspite1 I think that is very unfair. To blame a dead ex-President for the problems with New York nursing homes is wrong and I'm sure Mr Truman didn't mean to imply he would take responsibility for that...... [:D] warspite1 Well at least you and HansBolter saw the funny side... I guess everyone's sense of humour is different [:)] If you wanted me to think that you were jesting, you could have used an emoji. [;)][:D][sm=00000280.gif][sm=00000289.gif] warspite1 I think sometimes, tactically, the addition of an emoji is sensible - for example when a response could be taken the wrong way. However that - to me - is the exception rather than the rule. I prefer dead pan delivery, and an emoji weakens that. To be honest I didn't think I had to telegraph that I was jesting - after all, if you thought I was serious then I would have to have thought you were holding Harry S Truman (died 1972) as being responsible for the care homes problem in evidence at present. So for the avoidance of doubt, while I do blame Truman for a lot - for example my toast came out burnt this morning - I am prepared to give him a free pass on New York's care home situation.

CaptBeefheart -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/8/2020 7:40:41 AM)
It's almost Miller Time and it doesn't look like my buddy will post that Asia Times article I mentioned before I head to happy hour. Here's a search link that should tell you if it's up or not (look for a May 8 date, not the earlier ones): Asia Times Andy Salmon article. I'll be pretty busy tomorrow, but will try to post it at some point if nobody else has by then. The big news here today is a guy infected 15 people (as of now) at three gay nightclubs about a week ago. They say he became symptomatic the day after, but I have to wonder about that. Still, I don't predict much of a spike from this. The mayor will make a big show of closing nightclubs for another week or two. I presume my smaller craft beer and whiskey hangouts won't be affected. Here's the story: 15 confirmed virus cases related to Itaewon clubber, including 3 foreigners Cheers, CB

mind_messing -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/8/2020 10:49:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake quote: ORIGINAL: mind_messing Yes, but they're there. If we decide tomorrow to start doing hip replacements, there's not a scramble to try and re-hire staff. It strikes me as a decision that is sensible in the short term but will have serious consequences in the medium and long term... quote: Unemployment is tied to pre-layoff pay...not 1 to 1..but not catastrophic either. Even so, it is stressful and bad for morale. Indeed. But hey, the bottom line is going to look better, so that makes it all okay I suppose? Well, except that most are still "employed" and are still getting company supplied health care coverage and even a 401K (retirement plan) so there is no "rehire". All there is a phone call. Ask yourself if the taxpayers of Britain are going to pay idle NHS workers indefinitely? A bottom-line system is more agile. Mock it if you wish but the employers FUND the unemployment insurance system. Yes, they'll pay NHS workers indefinitely. To suggest otherwise at the current point would be political suicide, if nothing else. I'm not convinced a bottom line system is more agile, something this pandemic has driven home. Along with the "just in time" planning ethos. Not to suggest that we need to go the Soviet method and have bunkers full of gas masks that are unlikely to be used, but there is a middle ground WRT key supplies.

HansBolter -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/8/2020 11:04:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake quote: ORIGINAL: mind_messing quote: ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake Los Angeles has been passing bond measures to raise property and sales taxes and lavishing spending on the homeless. They have burned through quite a large reserve. California is ALREADY borrowing money from DC to pay unemployment costs after budgeting enough reserves for 18 months of standard recession job losses. It's all gone already. A Kapuchin monkey could have found a job in Calif in February. Maybe they can get all the homeless to move to Arizona? All of this borrowing and reserve spending means leaner times ahead. The hospitals are getting knee-capped by the decline in total admissions. Nurses in non-ICU positions getting laid off...even obstetrics..which seems crazy because babies don't look at the calendar or watch the news. From the UK, for profit healthcare seems an unusual concept and not often seen. What you've outlined just seems that it's jumped the shark... This applies to not-for-profit hospitals as well, of which there are many. They still have to meet budgets. I think you will discover than NHS is spending prodigiously right now....plus all the elective cases are being postponed and the seniors not taken by COVID will be wanting their bad knees replaced. Don't elective cases already get postponed for two or three years under socialized medicine?

mind_messing -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/8/2020 11:26:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HansBolter quote: ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake quote: ORIGINAL: mind_messing quote: ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake Los Angeles has been passing bond measures to raise property and sales taxes and lavishing spending on the homeless. They have burned through quite a large reserve. California is ALREADY borrowing money from DC to pay unemployment costs after budgeting enough reserves for 18 months of standard recession job losses. It's all gone already. A Kapuchin monkey could have found a job in Calif in February. Maybe they can get all the homeless to move to Arizona? All of this borrowing and reserve spending means leaner times ahead. The hospitals are getting knee-capped by the decline in total admissions. Nurses in non-ICU positions getting laid off...even obstetrics..which seems crazy because babies don't look at the calendar or watch the news. From the UK, for profit healthcare seems an unusual concept and not often seen. What you've outlined just seems that it's jumped the shark... This applies to not-for-profit hospitals as well, of which there are many. They still have to meet budgets. I think you will discover than NHS is spending prodigiously right now....plus all the elective cases are being postponed and the seniors not taken by COVID will be wanting their bad knees replaced. Don't elective cases already get postponed for two or three years under socialized medicine? I believe we have it enshrined in legislation that you need to be seen, diagnosed and treated within an 18 week period. 90% of patients are seen, diagnosed and treated within the 18 week treatment standard. So, to respond to your question - no.

JohnDillworth -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/8/2020 12:27:58 PM)
Datapoint. The first official death in the United States from Covid-19 was on February 26th. The day this thread started. Those deaths were probably not the first but I find it interesting that this thread started on February 26. Today the Untied States is at an astonishing 76,000 deaths and we will pass 80,000 sometimes this weekend. 80,000 dead. 1 American dies every 45 seconds from Covid-19. This is not normal

Lowpe -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/8/2020 12:37:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth Datapoint. The first official death in the United States from Covid-19 was on February 26th. The day this thread started. Those deaths were probably not the first but I find it interesting that this thread started on February 26. Today the Untied States is at an astonishing 76,000 deaths and we will pass 80,000 sometimes this weekend. 80,000 dead. 1 American dies every 45 seconds from Covid-19. This is not normal Just saying the CDC has a totally different number as of May 5th. 39K. Also they list the first death as of 2/8/20 (week of). https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/COVID19/index.htm Edit: Just updated, they are now up to 45.6K. First death still weak of 2/8.

Lowpe -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/8/2020 12:45:19 PM)
U.S. Field Hospitals Stand Down, Most Without Treating Any COVID-19 Patients https://archive.fo/xG8t8 (archive of npr) The endeavor cost more than $660 million, according to an NPR analysis of federal spending records. But nearly four months into the pandemic, most of these facilities haven't treated a single patient.

witpqs -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/8/2020 12:54:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mind_messing quote: ORIGINAL: HansBolter quote: ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake quote: ORIGINAL: mind_messing quote: ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake Los Angeles has been passing bond measures to raise property and sales taxes and lavishing spending on the homeless. They have burned through quite a large reserve. California is ALREADY borrowing money from DC to pay unemployment costs after budgeting enough reserves for 18 months of standard recession job losses. It's all gone already. A Kapuchin monkey could have found a job in Calif in February. Maybe they can get all the homeless to move to Arizona? All of this borrowing and reserve spending means leaner times ahead. The hospitals are getting knee-capped by the decline in total admissions. Nurses in non-ICU positions getting laid off...even obstetrics..which seems crazy because babies don't look at the calendar or watch the news. From the UK, for profit healthcare seems an unusual concept and not often seen. What you've outlined just seems that it's jumped the shark... This applies to not-for-profit hospitals as well, of which there are many. They still have to meet budgets. I think you will discover than NHS is spending prodigiously right now....plus all the elective cases are being postponed and the seniors not taken by COVID will be wanting their bad knees replaced. Don't elective cases already get postponed for two or three years under socialized medicine? I believe we have it enshrined in legislation that you need to be seen, diagnosed and treated within an 18 week period. 90% of patients are seen, diagnosed and treated within the 18 week treatment standard. So, to respond to your question - no. A friend of mine needed cataract surgery. When he was blind in one eye, not enough. He could still see with the other eye. When he was no longer able to drive due to vision loss in the other eye, he still had enough vision (and someone else could drive him). Finally, he was granted surgery, for one eye only. That was ~30 years ago (and he has passed), perhaps things are better now.

MakeeLearn -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/8/2020 12:56:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lowpe U.S. Field Hospitals Stand Down, Most Without Treating Any COVID-19 Patients https://archive.fo/xG8t8 (archive of npr) The endeavor cost more than $660 million, according to an NPR analysis of federal spending records. But nearly four months into the pandemic, most of these facilities haven't treated a single patient. Devastating.... Horrific....

HansBolter -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/8/2020 1:00:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mind_messing quote: ORIGINAL: HansBolter quote: ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake quote: ORIGINAL: mind_messing quote: ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake Los Angeles has been passing bond measures to raise property and sales taxes and lavishing spending on the homeless. They have burned through quite a large reserve. California is ALREADY borrowing money from DC to pay unemployment costs after budgeting enough reserves for 18 months of standard recession job losses. It's all gone already. A Kapuchin monkey could have found a job in Calif in February. Maybe they can get all the homeless to move to Arizona? All of this borrowing and reserve spending means leaner times ahead. The hospitals are getting knee-capped by the decline in total admissions. Nurses in non-ICU positions getting laid off...even obstetrics..which seems crazy because babies don't look at the calendar or watch the news. From the UK, for profit healthcare seems an unusual concept and not often seen. What you've outlined just seems that it's jumped the shark... This applies to not-for-profit hospitals as well, of which there are many. They still have to meet budgets. I think you will discover than NHS is spending prodigiously right now....plus all the elective cases are being postponed and the seniors not taken by COVID will be wanting their bad knees replaced. Don't elective cases already get postponed for two or three years under socialized medicine? I believe we have it enshrined in legislation that you need to be seen, diagnosed and treated within an 18 week period. 90% of patients are seen, diagnosed and treated within the 18 week treatment standard. So, to respond to your question - no. Is that for all elective surgeries or only the ones surgeons deem necessary? We were referring to elective procedures.

MakeeLearn -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/8/2020 1:01:59 PM)
"In 2018, 78% of all U.S. deaths from internal causes (that is, excluding accidents, murders, overdoses and the like) were among those 65 and older." "In 2018, 83% of influenza and pneumonia deaths in the U.S. were among those 65 and older, and two-thirds among those 75 and older." What we are doing to this country is beyond the problem.

Lowpe -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/8/2020 1:02:51 PM)
Here is modeling website, I picked Georgia because of CR, the thread starter. https://covidactnow.org/state/ga Pictured below is their March 24 to 29 forecast for GA. Go to the link to see their current forecast. [image]local://upfiles/44178/DB9CB90251C94FF59EBE20C1349CC8F4.jpg[/image]

Canoerebel -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/8/2020 1:13:00 PM)
Re: John's note that the first death was recorded 2/26, the date this thread started, he's right. Then, about three weeks ago, research/testing found two previous deaths. And that's likely to change as more work is done later. It is interesting to look back at where things stood on 2/26. That was a Wednesday, and the news was really startling. On Saturday, the 29th, I did a long hike in the mountains. It was nice to get away from the news for awhile. I started the thread so that I could get information and data from sources I trusted rather than the media. I had zero trust in nearly all sources (a state that's existed for many years). That skepticism has been driven home. One of the high points of the thread has been Mind_Messing sharply disputing that there is media bias in the US, despite studies and plentiful examples posted here (Atlantic Magazine: Georgia doing "Experiment in Human Sacrifice."). Then he posted his concerns about possible BBC bias because it used an older Boris Johnson photo/clip. Last week was a bad day, when IHME suddenly and drastically shifted projections, so that the pandemic is predicted to remain steady throughout the summer rather than ending rather imminently. So far it isn't clear whether that will prove accurate or not. I'm watching that closely. Two weeks post easing of countermeasures in Georgia, the data has been mostly good. For six out of seven days, mortality beneath (and often far beneath) projections. For one day it was considerably above. OVerall, well under.

Canoerebel -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/8/2020 1:14:49 PM)
Thanks, Lowpe. THat's terrific. I could use that as info to write a story, one of these days. Actual mortality in GA as of this morning is 1,351. quote: ORIGINAL: Lowpe Here is modeling website, I picked Georgia because of CR, the thread starter. https://covidactnow.org/state/ga Pictured below is their March 24 to 29 forecast for GA. Go to the link to see their current forecast. [image]local://upfiles/44178/DB9CB90251C94FF59EBE20C1349CC8F4.jpg[/image]

MakeeLearn -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/8/2020 1:17:38 PM)
Why COVID-19 kills some people and spares others. Here's what scientists are finding. 3 days ago https://www.livescience.com/why-covid-19-coronavirus-deadly-for-some-people.html "It's not clear why obesity is linked to more hospitalizations and more severe COVID-19 disease, but there are several possibilities, the authors wrote in the study. Obesity is generally thought of as a risk factor for severe infection. For example, those who are obese had longer and more severe disease during the swine flu epidemic, the authors wrote. Obese patients might also have reduced lung capacity or increased inflammation in the body. A greater number of inflammatory molecules circulating in the body might cause harmful immune responses and lead to severe disease."

MakeeLearn -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/8/2020 1:18:44 PM)
The NYPD Arrested 40 People on Social Distancing Violations. 35 Were Black. 4 hrs ago https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/the-nypd-arrested-40-people-on-social-distancing-violations-35-were-black/ar-BB13KLNu?li=BBnb7Kz "Tensions are increasingly flaring in black and Hispanic neighborhoods over officers’ enforcement of social-distancing rules, leading some prominent elected officials to charge that the New York Police Department is engaging in a racist double standard as it struggles to shift to a public health role in the coronavirus crisis."

MakeeLearn -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/8/2020 1:25:22 PM)
Overabundance of Whitetail deer, because there are no longer lots of things that eat them. "Chronic wasting disease is caused by a misfolded protein called a prion. All mammals produce normal prions that are used by cells, then degraded and eliminated, or recycled, within the body. When disease-associated prions contact normal prions, they cause them to refold into their own abnormal shape." "Can chronic wasting disease affect humans? No cases of CWD have been reported in humans, but studies have shown it can be transmitted to animals other than deer, including primates, according to the CDC. ... The disease affects deer's brains and spinal cords through abnormal prion proteins that damage normal prion proteins, the CDC said."

Canoerebel -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/8/2020 1:26:45 PM)
Not only is Georgia beneath the IHME projection as of May 7 (by 10%), it's outside the margin of error. I hope that remains true and that its replicated everywhere. Man, I hope IHME is wrong.

MakeeLearn -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/8/2020 1:29:20 PM)
High-fructose corn syrup High-fructose corn syrup is about 55% fructose and 45% glucose. HFCS and sugar have been shown to drive inflammation, which is associated with an increased risk of obesity, diabetes, heart disease, and cancer. In addition to inflammation, excess fructose may increase harmful substances called advanced glycation end products (AGEs), which may harm your cells " "Give the liver enough fructose, and tiny fat droplets begin to accumulate in liver cells. This buildup is called nonalcoholic fatty liver disease, because it looks just like what happens in the livers of people who drink too much alcohol. Virtually unknown before 1980, nonalcoholic fatty liver disease now affects up to 30% of adults in the United States and other developed countries, and between 70% and 90% of those who are obese or who have diabetes."

MakeeLearn -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/8/2020 1:31:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Canoerebel Not only is Georgia beneath the IHME projection as of May 7 (by 10%), it's outside the margin of error. I hope that remains true and that its replicated everywhere. Man, I hope IHME is wrong. Covid19, I don't think it is going to exit stage left.

MakeeLearn -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/8/2020 1:35:02 PM)
Are the kids with Covif19 inflammatory problems eating a lot of HFCS?

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