quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Take the Shutdown Skeptics Seriously

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/05/take-shutdown-skeptics-seriously/611419/

It didn’t have much evidence for some claims unfortunately.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

<snip my edits>

Los Angeles has been passing bond measures to raise property and sales taxes and lavishing spending on the homeless. They have burned through quite a large reserve. California is ALREADY borrowing money from DC to pay unemployment costs after budgeting enough reserves for 18 months of standard recession job losses. It's all gone already.

All of this borrowing and reserve spending means leaner times ahead. <snip my edits>

quote:

ORIGINAL: Macclan5

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

<snip my edits>

Los Angeles has been passing bond measures to raise property and sales taxes and lavishing spending on the homeless. They have burned through quite a large reserve. California is ALREADY borrowing money from DC to pay unemployment costs after budgeting enough reserves for 18 months of standard recession job losses. It's all gone already.

All of this borrowing and reserve spending means leaner times ahead. <snip my edits>

Sorry to carry forward an old thread.

Economics:

Yes this is the real unspoken issue surrounding what comes next.

Forget "reopening". That is chimera. It will happen "eventually".

It is not simply the Governmental Borrowing. Think also of all the "Governmental Debt instruments / bonds" sitting on the Balance Sheet of Central Banks / Federal Reserves - as they pursued Quantitative Easing. The banker of the government buying Government debt.

Realistically there are only three options

1) Austerity.

Some nations may choose this route. Ireland and Iceland did for example following 2008/2009. There is a significant social cost and it has not been tried on a G8 level economy to the same degree.

New Zealand / Canada / Australia all fiddled with Austerity in the 1990s but not full blown Austerity.

2) Increased Taxes

Significantly increased taxes

3) Print Money

Deflationary (money decreasing in value) - potentially rampant inflation i.e. the anecdotal $30.00 loaf of bread as money looses value.
Inflationary, not deflationary. More money chasing the same number or reduced number of goods is inflationary. Deflationary is when the money supply is reduced.

I doubt the political will exists to adopt a single course of measure in most large economies.

However the combination of all three will be fraught with hard political choices. They will bear economic and social costs to all G8 nations.

This sadly may stratify politics further as opposed to calm rationale negotiation trying to find the right balance.

Harder times indeed for perhaps a generation.

Perhaps the millennial generation will step to the fore. I hope so. (Really) [8D]

There is already reasonably strong anecdotal evidence that this generation is (i) less indebted than those before and less willing to take on personal debt (ii) more savy in their investment discipline - less prone to panic although their investment horizon is obviously longer.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

M-M

WSJ story behind paywall of the FBI top brass plotting to entrap Flynn AFTER the original investigators determined the investigation of Flynn should be ended for lack of evidence. Comey is at the meeting. Comey admitted to scheduling the meeting with Flynn (who is not a lawyer) while purposely NOT calling WH counsel to notify. They duped Flynn into thinking he was meeting to coordinate future activities with the incoming WH. There are DOJ rules against "perjury traps" for good reasons. The notes from the FBI planning meeting are chilling.

The DOJ just asked a judge to toss out the case against Flynn https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-vindication-of-michael-flynn-11588893542

quote:

ORIGINAL: Macclan5

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

<snip my edits>

Los Angeles has been passing bond measures to raise property and sales taxes and lavishing spending on the homeless. They have burned through quite a large reserve. California is ALREADY borrowing money from DC to pay unemployment costs after budgeting enough reserves for 18 months of standard recession job losses. It's all gone already.

All of this borrowing and reserve spending means leaner times ahead. <snip my edits>

Sorry to carry forward an old thread.

Economics:

Yes this is the real unspoken issue surrounding what comes next.

Forget "reopening". That is chimera. It will happen "eventually".

It is not simply the Governmental Borrowing. Think also of all the "Governmental Debt instruments / bonds" sitting on the Balance Sheet of Central Banks / Federal Reserves - as they pursued Quantitative Easing. The banker of the government buying Government debt.

Realistically there are only three options

1) Austerity.

Some nations may choose this route. Ireland and Iceland did for example following 2008/2009. There is a significant social cost and it has not been tried on a G8 level economy to the same degree.

New Zealand / Canada / Australia all fiddled with Austerity in the 1990s but not full blown Austerity.

2) Increased Taxes

Significantly increased taxes

3) Print Money

Deflationary (money decreasing in value) - potentially rampant inflation i.e. the anecdotal $30.00 loaf of bread as money looses value.

I doubt the political will exists to adopt a single course of measure in most large economies.

However the combination of all three will be fraught with hard political choices. They will bear economic and social costs to all G8 nations.

This sadly may stratify politics further as opposed to calm rationale negotiation trying to find the right balance.

Harder times indeed for perhaps a generation.

Perhaps the millennial generation will step to the fore. I hope so. (Really) [8D]

There is already reasonably strong anecdotal evidence that this generation is (i) less indebted than those before and less willing to take on personal debt (ii) more savy in their investment discipline - less prone to panic although their investment horizon is obviously longer.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

M-M

WSJ story behind paywall of the FBI top brass plotting to entrap Flynn AFTER the original investigators determined the investigation of Flynn should be ended for lack of evidence. Comey is at the meeting. Comey admitted to scheduling the meeting with Flynn (who is not a lawyer) while purposely NOT calling WH counsel to notify. They duped Flynn into thinking he was meeting to coordinate future activities with the incoming WH. There are DOJ rules against "perjury traps" for good reasons. The notes from the FBI planning meeting are chilling.

The DOJ just asked a judge to toss out the case against Flynn https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-vindication-of-michael-flynn-11588893542

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

And far more revelations, plus lots more articles and analysis out there. It remains to be seen if and how some of the media who peddled the falsehoods will cover the revelations.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

And far more revelations, plus lots more articles and analysis out there. It remains to be seen if and how some of the media who peddled the falsehoods will cover the revelations.

Sadly from what I have seen it is:

the rule of law at risk because the case was dropped
Putin is getting his money's worth
but he plead guilty

and the NBC deception I posted above.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

Yesterday I had my first experience of being with someone as they slowly died. He was mentally disabled, and had very little verbal communication. In the past few weeks our bond had became stronger. In the past month The only time he wanted to get out of bed and sit in his chair was when I was there.

Yesterday he kept wanting me to get him out of bed. I could not do it. It was too painful for him for me to move him and I did not want to put neither one of us through it.


I was alone with him for hours yesterday morning. Three times he told me "It's Sunday". Sunday was a special day for him. No one had heard that in months.


Then he told me "They're coming". A minute later "No...No."



It had nothing to do with Coronavirus.

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

And far more revelations, plus lots more articles and analysis out there. It remains to be seen if and how some of the media who peddled the falsehoods will cover the revelations.

Sadly from what I have seen it is:

the rule of law at risk because the case was dropped
Putin is getting his money's worth
but he plead guilty

and the NBC deception I posted above.

I know. [:(]
Even though:
- the law prohibits prosecuting someone wrongfully;
- It was the DNC and Clinton campaign which paid 50%/50% for the false dossier;
- they showed him a transcript with a doctored (false) version of his statements (his actual statements did not constitute any crime), he still maintained his innocence, then they said they would indict his son that day unless he plead guilty.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

Yesterday I had my first experience of being with someone as they slowly died. He was mentally disabled, and had very little verbal communication. In the past few weeks our bond had became stronger. In the past month The only time he wanted to get out of bed and sit in his chair was when I was there.

Yesterday he kept wanting me to get him out of bed. I could not do it. It was too painful for him for me to move him and I did not want to put neither one of us through it.


I was alone with him for hours yesterday morning. Three times he told me "It's Sunday". Sunday was a special day for him. No one had heard that in months.


Then he told me "They're coming". A minute later "No...No."



It had nothing to do with Coronavirus.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

M-M

WSJ story behind paywall of the FBI top brass plotting to entrap Flynn AFTER the original investigators determined the investigation of Flynn should be ended for lack of evidence. Comey is at the meeting. Comey admitted to scheduling the meeting with Flynn (who is not a lawyer) while purposely NOT calling WH counsel to notify. They duped Flynn into thinking he was meeting to coordinate future activities with the incoming WH. There are DOJ rules against "perjury traps" for good reasons. The notes from the FBI planning meeting are chilling.

The DOJ just asked a judge to toss out the case against Flynn https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-vindication-of-michael-flynn-11588893542

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

M-M

WSJ story behind paywall of the FBI top brass plotting to entrap Flynn AFTER the original investigators determined the investigation of Flynn should be ended for lack of evidence. Comey is at the meeting. Comey admitted to scheduling the meeting with Flynn (who is not a lawyer) while purposely NOT calling WH counsel to notify. They duped Flynn into thinking he was meeting to coordinate future activities with the incoming WH. There are DOJ rules against "perjury traps" for good reasons. The notes from the FBI planning meeting are chilling.

The DOJ just asked a judge to toss out the case against Flynn https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-vindication-of-michael-flynn-11588893542

Ah, unfortunate about the paywall.

Given that Flynn's hearing, his own lawyer (who would, one would hope, understand perjury) responded in the negative with regards to if Flynn had been entrapped, I don't think that one flies.

As for the DOJ, my opinion of that branch of the US government went down in flames after the events surrounding the release of the Mueller report.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Take your vitamin d...

Study reveals that vitamin D likely to reduce serious coronavirus complications

https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/coronavirus/study-reveals-that-vitamin-d-likely-to-reduce-serious-coronavirus-complications/ar-BB13Uk3P

quote:

Explosive internal FBI documents unsealed Wednesday show bureau officials executed a "meticulously planned-out scheme" in January 2017 to set up then-national security adviser Michael Flynn, former federal prosecutor Andy McCarthy told Fox News Wednesday.


"What we are seeing is a meticulously planned-out scheme to try to get a 33-year combat veteran of the United States to say something that was inaccurate so that they would have a basis to try to charge him with false statements or otherwise get him fired," McCarthy told "The Story."

READ THE BOMBSHELL FBI DOCUMENTS

"I think what we are seeing is a meticulously planned out scheme to try to get a 33-year combat veteran of the United States to say something that was inaccurate."

— Andy McCarthy, 'The Story'
The documents turned over by the Justice Department late Wednesday include handwritten notes in which FBI officials openly indicated that their "goal" was "to get him [Flynn] to lie, so we can prosecute him or get him fired" during special counsel Robert Mueller's investigation into alleged collusion by Americans with Russian officials at the time of the 2016 election.

The handwritten notes -- written by the FBI's former head of counterintelligence Bill Priestap after a meeting with then-FBI Director James Comey and then-FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe -- indicated that agents planned to get Flynn “to admit to breaking the Logan Act” and catch him in a lie.

The Logan Act is an obscure statute that has never been used in a criminal prosecution. Enacted in 1799, it was intended to prevent individuals from falsely claiming to represent the United States abroad.

FBI DISCUSSED INTERVIEWING FLYNN 'TO GET HIM TO LIE'

"For years, a number of us have been arguing that this looked like a perjury trap," McCarthy said. "That was common sense for a long time."


Flynn has previously claimed top FBI officials, including then-Deputy Director Andrew McCabe, pressed him not to have an attorney present while he was questioned by two agents. That questioning ultimately led to Flynn's guilty plea on a single charge of lying to federal authorities about conversations with Russia's then-ambassador to Washington, Sergey Kislyak.

One of the agents who questioned Flynn was Peter Strzok, who was later fired from the bureau after his anti-Trump text messages came to light.

quote:

Techno Fog
@Techno_Fog
🚨🚨 DEVELOPING…

Unsealed FBI notes reveal the intent of the FBI’s 1/24/17 interview of Flynn:

“What is our goal? Truth/Admission or to get him to lie, so we can prosecute [Flynn] or get him fired?”

FBI Notes confirm it was all a pretext.

"They did not have a legitimate investigative reason for doing this and there was no criminal predicate or reason to treat him [Flynn] like a criminal suspect," McCarthy explained.

"They did the interview outside of the established protocols of how the FBI is supposed to interview someone on the White House staff. They are supposed to go through the Justice Department and the White House counsel's office. They obviously purposely did not do that and they were clearly trying to make a case on this."

Mueller eventually concluded that there was no evidence of collusion with Russian foreign nationals and President Trump's campaign. However, in 2017 Flynn pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI about conversations with Russia’s ambassador before President Trump took office

In January, Flynn attempted to withdraw the guilty plea, saying federal prosecutors had acted in “bad faith” and broke their end of the bargain when they sought prison time for him.

Then-FBI Director James Comey admitted the Flynn interview didn't follow protocol, and came at his direction. He said the decision to "send a couple of guys over" to the White House to interview Flynn was “something I probably wouldn't have done or maybe gotten away with in a more … organized administration.”


"People should understand," McCarthy explained, "if General Flynn was a gangbanger or Mafia guy, they would have sat down with them or they would have told him, 'This is a criminal investigation,' they would have identified themselves as FBI agents, told him the reason for the interview, told him he had a right not to answer questions and told him if he made false statements, that could be grounds for prosecution. And if he made true statements, that can be used against him in a prosecution.

"They would do all of those things for criminals," he added.

Flynn's lead attorney, Sidney Powell, has demanded for months that the Department of Justice provide the exculpatory information that prosecutors are required by law to reveal to defendants they have charged with crimes.

Last month, President Trump said he was considering a full pardon for Flynn.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

M-M

WSJ story behind paywall of the FBI top brass plotting to entrap Flynn AFTER the original investigators determined the investigation of Flynn should be ended for lack of evidence. Comey is at the meeting. Comey admitted to scheduling the meeting with Flynn (who is not a lawyer) while purposely NOT calling WH counsel to notify. They duped Flynn into thinking he was meeting to coordinate future activities with the incoming WH. There are DOJ rules against "perjury traps" for good reasons. The notes from the FBI planning meeting are chilling.

The DOJ just asked a judge to toss out the case against Flynn https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-vindication-of-michael-flynn-11588893542

quote:

ORIGINAL: durnedwolf

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

M-M

WSJ story behind paywall of the FBI top brass plotting to entrap Flynn AFTER the original investigators determined the investigation of Flynn should be ended for lack of evidence. Comey is at the meeting. Comey admitted to scheduling the meeting with Flynn (who is not a lawyer) while purposely NOT calling WH counsel to notify. They duped Flynn into thinking he was meeting to coordinate future activities with the incoming WH. There are DOJ rules against "perjury traps" for good reasons. The notes from the FBI planning meeting are chilling.

The DOJ just asked a judge to toss out the case against Flynn https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-vindication-of-michael-flynn-11588893542

And here it says that the people that released Flynn were "hand picked" by the administration. Flynn

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

quote:

ORIGINAL: durnedwolf

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

M-M

WSJ story behind paywall of the FBI top brass plotting to entrap Flynn AFTER the original investigators determined the investigation of Flynn should be ended for lack of evidence. Comey is at the meeting. Comey admitted to scheduling the meeting with Flynn (who is not a lawyer) while purposely NOT calling WH counsel to notify. They duped Flynn into thinking he was meeting to coordinate future activities with the incoming WH. There are DOJ rules against "perjury traps" for good reasons. The notes from the FBI planning meeting are chilling.

The DOJ just asked a judge to toss out the case against Flynn https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-vindication-of-michael-flynn-11588893542

And here it says that the people that released Flynn were "hand picked" by the administration. Flynn

That's how they got to be "FORMER" DOJ officials. [:D] Swamp creatures fighting back.