RE: OT: Corona virus

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Lowpe -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/11/2020 9:15:04 PM)
Elon Musk defies coronavirus lockdown and reopens Tesla plant in California after suing local officials for ordering it to remain closed until June https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8308683/Elon-Musk-defies-coronavirus-lockdown-reopens-Tesla-plant-California.html From what I understand of how California is handling their lockdown, Tesla has a pretty strong case for their lawsuit. It must really scare local governments. All over Pennsylvania, District Attorney's are refusing to prosecute anyone for re-opening their business. Local Police are refusing to shut down businesses. Governor Wolfe is threatening revoking liquor licenses and insurance for companies that do re-open and counties that don't follow his lockdown mandate he will withhold Federal monies. More lawsuits ahead if he does that, considering Pennsylvania has a well established constitution. We are rapidly moving towards a re-opening that is in the hands of local businesses and communities developing their own mitigation plans. Interesting times indeed.

RFalvo69 -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/11/2020 9:30:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lowpe quote: ORIGINAL: obvert quote: ORIGINAL: Lowpe Take the Shutdown Skeptics Seriously https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/05/take-shutdown-skeptics-seriously/611419/ It didn’t have much evidence for some claims unfortunately. I think that is because we are in uncharted waters. Here is an article about the surge of suicides attributed to the 2008 recession. More Than 10,000 Suicides Tied To Economic Crisis, Study Says https://www.forbes.com/sites/melaniehaiken/2014/06/12/more-than-10000-suicides-tied-to-economic-crisis-study-says/#40544c0e7ae2 I actually have known a few people that have committed suicide because of business failure. Contrary to popular belief, suicide doesn't void life insurance claims if you have had the life insurance for more than a couple of years. These poor people felt they were worth more dead than alive. It is important, however, to remember that stress, fear and quarantine can increase suicide tendencies in clinically depressed people - even if they are not economically desperate. It is a variant of one of those scenarios when people die due to the virus but not of the virus.

DD696 -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/11/2020 9:40:17 PM)
Damn lawyers must be wringing their hands with glee. All these trillions of dollars floating around and they have not had their 30-40%. Poor little leeches. Once the lawyers get thru sucking the dollars out of everyone I am sure that we will be in mighty fine shape.

RangerJoe -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/11/2020 10:53:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nomad Here is a sad story about Covid-19 and the Navajo. https://apnews.com/c77cc3c537c9a2510b67dcb631b4d988 That is sad. I recognized the valley from television shows and movies. Many were made there.

Admiral DadMan -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/11/2020 11:37:04 PM)
Hey folks, I know this is an OT thread. Take care how far off the rails we go toward the political stuff.

Lowpe -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/12/2020 1:11:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RFalvo69 quote: ORIGINAL: Lowpe quote: ORIGINAL: obvert quote: ORIGINAL: Lowpe Take the Shutdown Skeptics Seriously https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/05/take-shutdown-skeptics-seriously/611419/ It didn’t have much evidence for some claims unfortunately. I think that is because we are in uncharted waters. Here is an article about the surge of suicides attributed to the 2008 recession. More Than 10,000 Suicides Tied To Economic Crisis, Study Says https://www.forbes.com/sites/melaniehaiken/2014/06/12/more-than-10000-suicides-tied-to-economic-crisis-study-says/#40544c0e7ae2 I actually have known a few people that have committed suicide because of business failure. Contrary to popular belief, suicide doesn't void life insurance claims if you have had the life insurance for more than a couple of years. These poor people felt they were worth more dead than alive. It is important, however, to remember that stress, fear and quarantine can increase suicide tendencies in clinically depressed people - even if they are not economically desperate. It is a variant of one of those scenarios when people die due to the virus but not of the virus. Correct. Plus the social networks that help are not as effective as they were. It is a sad situation.

Lowpe -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/12/2020 1:39:12 AM)
We know everything – and nothing – about Covid https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/we-know-everything-and-nothing-about-covid

RangerJoe -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/12/2020 1:58:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lowpe We know everything – and nothing – about Covid https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/we-know-everything-and-nothing-about-covid A nice article but a bad use of statistics which render them useless: quote: In Groningen in northern Holland the overall death rate is up just 4 per cent on last year, while in North Brabant, in the south of the country, the death rate has doubled. With no bases for comparing the two statistics with the normal death rates, it is difficult to compare the two.

sPzAbt653 -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/12/2020 4:12:59 AM)
quote: Are you implying that these would not be needed if the restrictions were not to be relaxed? They had enough for the circumstances with the restrictions in place, but now that the restrictions are being lifted prior to any ability to halt the cytokine storm, they have to order more.

sPzAbt653 -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/12/2020 4:26:33 AM)
quote: you have some "unproven allegations" there? I was responding to the statement that he was presumed to be for the people. The only thing I said was that he was under investigation at that time. There is more negative stuff on him if I had time but this isn't the thread for it.

witpqs -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/12/2020 7:51:41 AM)
One serious article... Dr. Birx Reportedly Believes Coronavirus Death Toll Inflated By Up To 25% and one for fun. Several States Issue Orders Requiring People To Run Around In Giant Hamster Balls

JohnDillworth -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/12/2020 8:38:14 AM)
Minnesota, Texas and Arizona are big states trending up (bad). Can't figure out how Vermont is doing so well and New Hampshire isn't. Happy to say New York continues to be among the lowest R0 states in the Continental U.S. Some of the mid=state will have partial reopening Friday and most of the rest is getting close. These are partial reopening, not much at first, but the trends are excellent. Economy-wise tourism will be last, but much of the rest of the economic engine should come back on line over the summer. I think they are waiting for after the Memorial Day weekend to open some things like the beaches (that's me, beach rat, big, ocean waves and swim out until the life guard has to whistle for me to come in). Transit and schools are the big challenge but they have a plan for both. Germany and Korea had to relock some hot spots. In both cases the hotspots were centered around bars and clubs so that's a good data point. Can't figure out how they are going to open up much of the offices in NYC while PPE is still a bit difficult to find and employers are required to provide. Better, but if you figure 1 mask , per person , per day, that is millions of masks per day. https://covid19-projections.com/infections-tracker/

fcooke -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/12/2020 10:38:56 AM)
I personally believe a bunch of the data is BORKED, so what we are seeing state to state and country to country won't make sense till later when folks can better analyze the facts. I need the lockdown to end so the wife unit can get out of the house....... Tourism is likely one of the hardest hit sectors. My Mom runs a B&B in the west of Ireland. She is so terrified that she thinks she will never re-open it.

Cap Mandrake -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/12/2020 11:46:10 AM)
Yo...vaccine guys....Hurry up! Gone to full face masks in the office too. No scribes. Takes forever to run a Zoom telehealth visit because it takes time to set up and you can't contemporaneously document. I takes at least 30 minutes of bullshit to see a suspected finger fracture and then you have to bring them in to X-ray and splint it. Sure, you could have an RN screen them but the RN's are busy doing COVID testing. Our main office LVN's are both out but thankfully are negative for COVID. I saw 18 patients yesterday and it felt like a 10 mile hike with a 40 lb pack and 4000 ft gain. Hospital call this weekend and the night time triage nurse filling in from Northern Calif somewhere didn't know s*** about pediatrics and put every damn call through. You go to sleep at 8 because you are tired from the night before and then they deliberately time the calls to catch you when you have just reached REM sleep. I can't imagine what all those poor bastards in Italy went through. I am so ready to go to Maui and stick my feet in the sand and drink G&T's all day

Lowpe -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/12/2020 11:48:25 AM)
Texas, Minnesota and Arizona from https://rt.live/ [image]local://upfiles/44178/139528AFE5D648F9A09931BF824CD9C1.jpg[/image]

Lowpe -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/12/2020 11:54:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake Yo...vaccine guys....Hurry up! Gone to full face masks in the office too. No scribes. Takes forever to run a Zoom telehealth visit because it takes time to set up and you can't contemporaneously document. I takes at least 30 minutes of bullshit to see a suspected finger fracture and then you have to bring them in to X-ray and splint it. Sure, you could have an RN screen them but the RN's are busy doing COVID testing. Our main office LVN's are both out but thankfully are negative for COVID. I saw 18 patients yesterday and it felt like a 10 mile hike with a 40 lb pack and 4000 ft gain. Hospital call this weekend and the night time triage nurse filling in from Northern Calif somewhere didn't know s*** about pediatrics and put every damn call through. You go to sleep at 8 because you are tired from the night before and then they deliberately time the calls to catch you when you have just reached REM sleep. I can't imagine what all those poor bastards in Italy went through. I am so ready to go to Maui and stick my feet in the sand and drink G&T's all day I went to the bank yesterday. Drive thru. One person in the bank, he was gloved and masked. We sent our paperwork into the tube and into the teller. The teller pulled out a disposable wipe, wiped the tube down, processed our paperwork, wiped the tube again, sent it back and then he gingerly changed his rubber gloves. Not sure if that is the technique for every transaction....just for ours. We were the only car at the drive thru teller for the entire process. In normal times, all lanes would have been filled.

Lowpe -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/12/2020 12:03:35 PM)
California Governor Newsom delays reopening county after thousands attend rodeo https://archive.fo/uQnLy#selection-1275.0-1275.79

Lowpe -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/12/2020 12:20:45 PM)
Anxiety From Reactions to Covid-19 Will Destroy At Least Seven Times More Years of Life Than Can Be Saved by Lockdowns https://www.justfacts.com/news_covid-19_anxiety_lockdowns_life_destroyed_saved

Canoerebel -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/12/2020 12:27:27 PM)
We spent a few days with my father-in-law. The boys and I helped with yardwork and my wife cleaning the house. He has a television, so for the first time I got to see local and national news reports about Covid. The stories were mostly pretty shallow, with none of the data I (we) have access to here - actual mortality and new case reports per state and worldwide, projections, Ro numbers, input from doctors and veterninary immunologists. From the overall tone of the news (mostly reports about places reopening), I was pretty sure the numbers coming in over the weekend had been positive. When I got home and checked the sources, the hunch proved true. I'm getting far better input via this thread and the sources linked to here than I could get from local and national news.

Canoerebel -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/12/2020 12:39:10 PM)
IHME revised its projections again. The USA and New York up a bit, New Jersey up a lot, Georgia down a good bit. Texas and California up a bit, Tennessee, Oregon and Arkansas remain remarkably low. UK up to 40k (I don't recall where it was - I think around 37k?). Italy, France and Belgium on steeply downhill sides of the bell curve.

Lowpe -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/12/2020 12:55:40 PM)
Fauci warns of ‘suffering and death’ if US reopens too soon https://apnews.com/a05c32d9a76a535238779c7eb1504613

22sec -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/12/2020 1:30:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lowpe quote: ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake Yo...vaccine guys....Hurry up! Gone to full face masks in the office too. No scribes. Takes forever to run a Zoom telehealth visit because it takes time to set up and you can't contemporaneously document. I takes at least 30 minutes of bullshit to see a suspected finger fracture and then you have to bring them in to X-ray and splint it. Sure, you could have an RN screen them but the RN's are busy doing COVID testing. Our main office LVN's are both out but thankfully are negative for COVID. I saw 18 patients yesterday and it felt like a 10 mile hike with a 40 lb pack and 4000 ft gain. Hospital call this weekend and the night time triage nurse filling in from Northern Calif somewhere didn't know s*** about pediatrics and put every damn call through. You go to sleep at 8 because you are tired from the night before and then they deliberately time the calls to catch you when you have just reached REM sleep. I can't imagine what all those poor bastards in Italy went through. I am so ready to go to Maui and stick my feet in the sand and drink G&T's all day I went to the bank yesterday. Drive thru. One person in the bank, he was gloved and masked. We sent our paperwork into the tube and into the teller. The teller pulled out a disposable wipe, wiped the tube down, processed our paperwork, wiped the tube again, sent it back and then he gingerly changed his rubber gloves. Not sure if that is the technique for every transaction....just for ours. We were the only car at the drive thru teller for the entire process. In normal times, all lanes would have been filled. I have yet to see any of that kind of thoroughness here. People are respectful of social distancing, about half of the population is wearing masks, but from my perspective there is a overall sense of resiliency. My 10 year old restarts baseball practice Thursday, with guidelines in place such as not using the dugout, parents can watch but must practice social distancing, try and keep the boys separated for drills, which is kind of silly since we will all be handling the same baseballs. Of course they asked everyone to bring hand sanitizer and said anyone wanting to mask up should do so. I am all for it. As the father/stepfather of five, four of whom are teenagers, I am extremely concerned what the lack of social interaction is doing to these kids.

RangerJoe -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/12/2020 2:09:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lowpe Anxiety From Reactions to Covid-19 Will Destroy At Least Seven Times More Years of Life Than Can Be Saved by Lockdowns https://www.justfacts.com/news_covid-19_anxiety_lockdowns_life_destroyed_saved I forsee a lot more prescriptions for Celexa! [>:]

RangerJoe -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/12/2020 2:15:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth Minnesota, Texas and Arizona are big states trending up (bad). Can't figure out how Vermont is doing so well and New Hampshire isn't. Happy to say New York continues to be among the lowest R0 states in the Continental U.S. Some of the mid=state will have partial reopening Friday and most of the rest is getting close. These are partial reopening, not much at first, but the trends are excellent. Economy-wise tourism will be last, but much of the rest of the economic engine should come back on line over the summer. I think they are waiting for after the Memorial Day weekend to open some things like the beaches (that's me, beach rat, big, ocean waves and swim out until the life guard has to whistle for me to come in). Transit and schools are the big challenge but they have a plan for both. Germany and Korea had to relock some hot spots. In both cases the hotspots were centered around bars and clubs so that's a good data point. Can't figure out how they are going to open up much of the offices in NYC while PPE is still a bit difficult to find and employers are required to provide. Better, but if you figure 1 mask , per person , per day, that is millions of masks per day. https://covid19-projections.com/infections-tracker/ The annual migration of the snowbirds heading north is probably part of the reason for the increase. Otherwise, look at crowded nursing homes, assisted living facilities, and the Navajo reservation for the increases.

Lowpe -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/12/2020 2:31:08 PM)
Sitrep in PA: A few facts on Pennsylvania, population 12 million. It takes 7 hours to traverse the state by car. PA is pretty much a republican/democrat divided state. Governor's office routinely switches, usually always have 1 senator from each party, usually leans democrat in Presidential elections. Large cities and large rural areas and large recreation areas. A real mix. The Pennsylvania Governor refuses to let press ask follow up questions, and questions are submitted in writing to be read to the Governor by an aide. Counties are opening back up on their own, and it is not a political divide. Democrats are leading the charge in Bucks and Northampton counties, Republicans in rural Franklin County, independent technocrats in Dauphin. They are doing this in conjunction with advice from their hospital systems. I posted a link to Dauphin county's letter, it quotes hospital occupancy, ventilator usage and supply, infection rates. Seems to me they have a pretty good handle on what is happening in their county. I just heard the Democrats in Bucks can't even speak to the Sec of Health or the Governor. The best they could get was an aide on a Sunday and a promise they might hear back from then in a week or two. They felt that the Governor and Secretary was at best making decisions on a regional basis. The State's decision making on which businesses can open, are considered essential, was secret. One building contractor could, another couldn't even though they did the same type of construction, etc. They all question the numbers. What is the science behind the 50 new infections per 100,000 threshold level? How is increased testing factored in, or new hospitalizations factored in? For example. Bucks County (democrat) has a very sophisticated contact tracing program in force, how is that factored in? Exclude nursing home residents and they meet threshold, and the nursing homes are bad because the state failed to implement their mitigation policy while the county could't get their calls returned by the state. Meanwhile, in Media they came down hard on a barber that opened up recently, while other communities refuse to prosecute anyone. The Governor is threatening businesses, counties, with punitive actions, describing local politicians decision making as whims. It is interesting to note, in PA you are not eligible for Unemployment if you are considered an owner of the business. Almost every small business owner, basically. You do pay unemployment insurance though. Also of note, is that Governor Wolfe cannot run for re-election. This centralized vs less centralized decision making argument is a case study here in Pennsylvania, and it is only accelerating. I hear that town here near Philly is planning on opening up, perhaps making an announcement tomorrow. Then it will devolve into a town/county/state fracture.

Lowpe -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/12/2020 2:44:49 PM)
How Becoming A Partisan Weapon Will Destroy Medicine https://thefederalist.com/2020/05/12/how-becoming-a-partisan-weapon-will-destroy-medicine/ Gregg Schmedes, MD, serves in the New Mexico House of Representatives, representing District 22.

witpqs -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/12/2020 3:02:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lowpe Sitrep in PA: ... The State's decision making on which businesses can open, are considered essential, was secret. One building contractor could, another couldn't even though they did the same type of construction, etc. ... This is exactly how the worst of the worst political abuses occur. Hopefully they are only being capricious because they are not up to the overwhelming task and are 'just screwing up'.

MakeeLearn -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/12/2020 3:03:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake quote: ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn Yesterday I had my first experience of being with someone as they slowly died. He was mentally disabled, and had very little verbal communication. In the past few weeks our bond had became stronger. In the past month The only time he wanted to get out of bed and sit in his chair was when I was there. Yesterday he kept wanting me to get him out of bed. I could not do it. It was too painful for him for me to move him and I did not want to put neither one of us through it. I was alone with him for hours yesterday morning. Three times he told me "It's Sunday". Sunday was a special day for him. No one had heard that in months. Then he told me "They're coming". A minute later "No...No." It had nothing to do with Coronavirus. Man, that is hard. Hope he wasn't truly fearful in the end [:(] He did seem scared. By noon I had given him 3 doses of Morphine and some Lorazepam. I comforted him the best I could with my hands and my words. By the time the Nurses arrived he was nonresponsive, then a while later he was gone. During the morning he used words I had never heard him use before. At times he was talking to me and other times it really seemed as if he was talking to someone else. I have undergone a quantum leap.

witpqs -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/12/2020 3:07:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth Minnesota, Texas and Arizona are big states trending up (bad). Can't figure out how Vermont is doing so well and New Hampshire isn't. Happy to say New York continues to be among the lowest R0 states in the Continental U.S. Some of the mid=state will have partial reopening Friday and most of the rest is getting close. These are partial reopening, not much at first, but the trends are excellent. Economy-wise tourism will be last, but much of the rest of the economic engine should come back on line over the summer. I think they are waiting for after the Memorial Day weekend to open some things like the beaches (that's me, beach rat, big, ocean waves and swim out until the life guard has to whistle for me to come in). Transit and schools are the big challenge but they have a plan for both. Germany and Korea had to relock some hot spots. In both cases the hotspots were centered around bars and clubs so that's a good data point. Can't figure out how they are going to open up much of the offices in NYC while PPE is still a bit difficult to find and employers are required to provide. Better, but if you figure 1 mask , per person , per day, that is millions of masks per day. https://covid19-projections.com/infections-tracker/ Arizona. [image]local://upfiles/14248/181ED0C4DF024292B210ED275AE7EC44.jpg[/image]

MakeeLearn -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/12/2020 3:07:38 PM)
The HUMANITARIAN Bill Gates wants us to be in good health and WELL fed! Bill Gates and Richard Branson are betting lab-grown meat might be the food of the future Mar 23 2018 https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/23/bill-gates-and-richard-branson-bet-on-lab-grown-meat-startup.html "Bill Gates has invested in lab-grown meat companies, as has Richard Branson. “Raising meat takes a great deal of land and water and has a substantial environmental impact,” Gates wrote on his personal blog, Gatesnotes.com, a few years ago"

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