RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta10 (last update 23 june!) (Full Version)

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zgrssd -> RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta10 (last update 23 june!) (6/28/2020 7:45:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Destragon

By the way, Vic, I still don't really understand why the Unification stratagem costs 10 PP less than the Annexation one and why the Unification one has a -50 difficulty modifier. Shouldn't these be the opposite? Give Annexation the cheaper cost of Unification and also move the -50 difficulty to it? I still think Unification is way, way better than Annexation.

If they rejecet Unification, that is it.

If they reject annexaaction, you can get them via a war. Wich I think is free of the usual "declared a war" penalties. So you get them one way, or the other...



Destragon -> RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta10 (last update 23 june!) (6/29/2020 2:36:00 AM)

Yes, that's been said earlier in the thread already. I don't see how this corner case benefit is enough to make annexation 10 PP more expensive and increase its difficulty by 50 compared to unification.
Failing the annexation attempt and getting war means that all the resources you invested into this were wasted. It requires a foreign affairs council and requires the minor to at least be a protectorate. If you don't mind taking the minor by force, then why not just declare war in the first place, instead of going half way through the diplomacy route only to then pick the more expensive, harder to succeed card that risks you losing out on all the benefits of a diplomatic annexation?
If annexation was the easier card to play, it would at least make sense to me as a risk vs reward route.

Benefits of diplomatic annexation compared to warfare:
- Only costs PP, no other resource/ manpower
- A lot faster
- The city population is happy, no unrest
- You get all the militia units
- You get the city governor

It feels like unification is missing some additional cost. Maybe a successful unification should also have a credit cost attached, which would be paid into the private economy of the city, making it feel a little more like you're actually giving the minor regime something, instead of this being a very one sided deal.



Vic -> RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta10 (last update 23 june!) (6/29/2020 6:21:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: geforth

relax vic. [:)] I like the game how it is and the current version will entertain me the next weeks / months [:D] For 30 Euro there is so much game [&o]


Thanks. It just I am always slow to finish my plate, but that's partly because i have tendency to put to much on it. :)

And I actually have other jobs (and another game in the works) as well.

But we'll get there. If you ask me I think there is a very solid basis with the Shadow Empire to build upon. I hope to spend multiple years to come on this title. Especially looking forward to creating the naval addition and fleshing out alien lifeforms in more detail.

Best wishes,
Vic



Vic -> RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta10 (last update 23 june!) (6/29/2020 6:28:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Destragon

Yes, that's been said earlier in the thread already. I don't see how this corner case benefit is enough to make annexation 10 PP more expensive and increase its difficulty by 50 compared to unification.
Failing the annexation attempt and getting war means that all the resources you invested into this were wasted. It requires a foreign affairs council and requires the minor to at least be a protectorate. If you don't mind taking the minor by force, then why not just declare war in the first place, instead of going half way through the diplomacy route only to then pick the more expensive, harder to succeed card that risks you losing out on all the benefits of a diplomatic annexation?
If annexation was the easier card to play, it would at least make sense to me as a risk vs reward route.

Benefits of diplomatic annexation compared to warfare:
- Only costs PP, no other resource/ manpower
- A lot faster
- The city population is happy, no unrest
- You get all the militia units
- You get the city governor

It feels like unification is missing some additional cost. Maybe a successful unification should also have a credit cost attached, which would be paid into the private economy of the city, making it feel a little more like you're actually giving the minor regime something, instead of this being a very one sided deal.


As said above Annexation is really a bit of a Stratagem in disguise.

Before it got created there was no way to go to war with a client/protectorate state without taking a big hit. This stratagem allows you to do exactly this at a cost in PP instead of in happiness,loyalty etc for breaking your Word.

It is basically a zero-penalty declare war on Minor Stratagem.

The difficulty is higher because nobody likes to receive a threat like this.

Best wishes,
Vic



Pi2repsilon -> RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta10 (last update 23 june!) (6/29/2020 4:05:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vic

quote:

ORIGINAL: geforth

relax vic. [:)] I like the game how it is and the current version will entertain me the next weeks / months [:D] For 30 Euro there is so much game [&o]


Thanks. It just I am always slow to finish my plate, but that's partly because i have tendency to put to much on it. :)

And I actually have other jobs (and another game in the works) as well.

But we'll get there. If you ask me I think there is a very solid basis with the Shadow Empire to build upon. I hope to spend multiple years to come on this title. Especially looking forward to creating the naval addition and fleshing out alien lifeforms in more detail.

Best wishes,
Vic

A solid basis, yes, but first impressions are important especially when dealing with the non-hardcore wargamer crowd that this title has a chance of enticing.

For the love of God focus on UI polishing, reducing turn times, and bug elimination until such time as the game releases on Steam to help get a smooth Steam launch.



Destragon -> RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta10 (last update 23 june!) (6/29/2020 4:58:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vic

As said above Annexation is really a bit of a Stratagem in disguise.

Before it got created there was no way to go to war with a client/protectorate state without taking a big hit. This stratagem allows you to do exactly this at a cost in PP instead of in happiness,loyalty etc for breaking your Word.

It is basically a zero-penalty declare war on Minor Stratagem.

Yeah, we didn't use to have an easy way to declare war on client states, BUT we didn't use to have a way to peacefully integrate them either.
If annexation was the only card and unification wouldn't exist, then I'd think annexation is fine, but because unification does exist, annexation stands in direct comparison to unification and I just currently don't see a situation where I wouldn't rather use unification instead (other than for roleplaying reasons).

quote:


The difficulty is higher because nobody likes to receive a threat like this.

Sure, but they should be scared as hell by the military power of the major regime that tries to annex them, which should reduce the difficulty. Personally, I think lower difficulty makes more sense for annexation than unification, because a diplomatic political process to unify two states sounds like an incredibly difficult and slow process in real life, while I imagine a "join us or die" situation being a little easier in comparison.



GodwinW -> RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta10 (last update 23 june!) (6/29/2020 10:22:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Destragon

If annexation was the only card and unification wouldn't exist, then I'd think annexation is fine, but because unification does exist, annexation stands in direct comparison to unification and I just currently don't see a situation where I wouldn't rather use unification instead (other than for roleplaying reasons).



Well what if you cannot because the roll is too difficult to make in your specific situation?



Destragon -> RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta10 (last update 23 june!) (6/30/2020 1:58:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GodwinW

Well what if you cannot because the roll is too difficult to make in your specific situation?

A situation where the minor has high enough relation with you that it makes you want to bypass the happiness penalty on the declaration of war and able to turn them into a protectorate, but also not enough relation and too high tradition to make unification not feasible sounds like quite an edge case to me.
If the main benefit of the annexation card is an edge case, I still think that it should be cheaper than unification (swapping their prices).

An alternate idea would be remove the protectorate requirement off of annexation. Make it possible to play the card on any minor regime. But maybe then it would be too strong.



GodwinW -> RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta10 (last update 23 june!) (6/30/2020 2:16:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Destragon

quote:

ORIGINAL: GodwinW

Well what if you cannot because the roll is too difficult to make in your specific situation?

A situation where the minor has high enough relation with you that it makes you want to bypass the happiness penalty on the declaration of war and able to turn them into a protectorate, but also not enough relation and too high tradition to make unification not feasible sounds like quite an edge case to me.
If the main benefit of the annexation card is an edge case, I still think that it should be cheaper than unification (swapping their prices).

An alternate idea would be remove the protectorate requirement off of annexation. Make it possible to play the card on any minor regime. But maybe then it would be too strong.


No I had this for the entire game once lol (after that I decided just to 'never-peace' with minors in the next game I'm now finishing up).



Destragon -> RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta10 (last update 23 june!) (6/30/2020 2:28:54 PM)

Like I said, I was able to unify with every minor regime (except for the one who was locked into war and maybe two who were probably eaten by a major in the early game) in my current game and it didn't really seem that hard to me. I did put a cap 3 leader on foreign affairs and got that meritocracy card that lets you improve relations with other regimes though.

Looking at how the annexation cards are now in the main game with 1.04, I should probably just make a separate thread about this.



GodwinW -> RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta10 (last update 23 june!) (6/30/2020 3:42:09 PM)

Missed this for a while because the title wasn't updated, thanks for putting out a new beta :)

quote:

Changelist to v1.04-beta1
-Changed the way Supply Bases are giving extension. They now only give extension points upto the point normal action points have already been used. This makes them function as actually intended. Will only be in effect with games started with v1.04-beta1 *


Ah wow.. Didn't expect this. I figured it was made this way to avoid loads of thinking and planning required on where to put down supply bases and to cut down on micromanagement and to not make you put down many of them along different branches.
For example you need to take into account the future update to Sealed Roads and of course should avoid administrative strain and it will get quite difficult if you have a trio of cities relatively close where the best spots will be. It'll be interesting to see how this works out in practice.

quote:


-“Loyal AI” no longer going to emergency hostility if getting close to losing the game
-No longer losing Stratagems in some cases with dip/spy stratagems where you lost the previous level of the stratagem and that caused a higher level to disappear.


Thanks!! I'll test this evening :)



Destragon -> RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta10 (last update 23 june!) (6/30/2020 4:10:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GodwinW
For example you need to take into account the future update to Sealed Roads and of course should avoid administrative strain and it will get quite difficult if you have a trio of cities relatively close where the best spots will be. It'll be interesting to see how this works out in practice.

Yeah, I'm liking the sound of this change a lot. Placing down supply bases is a lot more interesting of a decision now, instead of just placing them right next to your trucks or right on top of them.
I'm liking this nerf to trucks a lot more than the branching penalty, though I haven't tested it yet.



springel -> RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta10 (last update 23 june!) (6/30/2020 6:49:48 PM)

Hey @Godwin & @Destragon, this is the thread to announce new beta patches, not to discuss features.



Malevolence -> RE: Open Beta Patch v1.04-beta1 (last update 30 june!) (6/30/2020 7:52:24 PM)

I just noticed the limitation for Open Beta Patch v1.04-beta1. The patch must be manually installed over the official v1.04 update.

Also, the title of the thread was not updated.



zgrssd -> RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta12 (last update 25 june!) (6/30/2020 9:10:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Vic

-Added a cap to Incr Sales Tax, inc Income Tax, Incr Import Tariff, Incr Export Tariff stratagems. Max tax is 100%. *


"Tax the dude into space":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kX5ggw5AIU

I still think you should be starting a new Beta thread every major version. Why recycle one thread, over and over? If anything, a long thread makes it harder to find hte start in case you updated the beta.



actrade -> RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta12 (last update 25 june!) (6/30/2020 9:24:37 PM)

Vic,

There are many in another thread on supply bases confused as to how they now work. Could you post a picture like in the manual of how it works now? Thanks!



MatthewVilter -> RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta12 (last update 25 june!) (6/30/2020 10:55:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: actrade

Vic,

There are many in another thread on supply bases confused as to how they now work. Could you post a picture like in the manual of how it works now? Thanks!


If this is all working out the way I think then the the example in the manual is actually an edge case where, because the supply base is put down right where the action points of the logistics run out, the system works the same either way (which has caused some confusion lol).



Destragon -> RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta12 (last update 25 june!) (6/30/2020 11:36:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: actrade

Vic,

There are many in another thread on supply bases confused as to how they now work. Could you post a picture like in the manual of how it works now? Thanks!

Supply Bases used to give additional movement points to your logistics trucks, but now they only replenish the spent movement points of your logistics trucks.

Here's a small example. The supply base could potentially replenish 50 movement points, but because the logistics path has only used 20 movement points so far when it reaches the supply base, it is only able to replenish 20.
[image]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/504754524079259678/727668526214545528/new_supply_bases.jpg[/image]



LordAldrich -> RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta12 (last update 25 june!) (7/1/2020 4:40:52 AM)

I've noticed that one of the recent updates - maybe the one that fixed armor/weapon calibre modifiers - seems to have also changed (fixed?) the way that HQ stratagems are being applied. In particular, having "Field Training" set is now REALLY noticeably detrimental to units in combat. This is a problem for the AI, which frequently has "Field Training" applied to its units in inappropriate situations. I've been slaughtering AI tank formations with basic infantry because of it.



Vic -> RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta12 (last update 25 june!) (7/1/2020 7:42:32 AM)

@Destragon: Thanks for posting!

@LordAldrich: Going to check this up for the next patch



Vic -> RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta12 (last update 25 june!) (7/1/2020 4:12:24 PM)

No patch today.

V104-beta2 will very probably arrive tomorrow. I am in the middle of adding some basic pull systems to the Logistics systems.

Results are promising and will make life easier on newbees.

Even for experienced players who got used to the Traffics Signs (which will remain there) it will give some options to easily finetune a certain amount of logistical points moving to a certain Hex.

Best wishes,
Vic



zgrssd -> RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta12 (last update 25 june!) (7/1/2020 5:02:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vic

No patch today.

V104-beta2 will very probably arrive tomorrow. I am in the middle of adding some basic pull systems to the Logistics systems.

Results are promising and will make life easier on newbees.

Even for experienced players who got used to the Traffics Signs (which will remain there) it will give some options to easily finetune a certain amount of logistical points moving to a certain Hex.

Best wishes,
Vic

With "pull System", do you mean something like Operation range, but for buildings tha need Logistics?
That tbe building goes some of the way towards the next (main) road, rather then having supply split 50/50 on the crossing?
Are those changes going to be savegame compatible?



Demonius -> RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta12 (last update 25 june!) (7/1/2020 6:50:04 PM)

Got a crash on the finishing step of planet creation but stupidly just clicked it away. Lets see if it happens again.



eddieballgame -> RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta12 (last update 25 june!) (7/2/2020 12:45:48 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Vic

No patch today.

V104-beta2 will very probably arrive tomorrow. I am in the middle of adding some basic pull systems to the Logistics systems.

Results are promising and will make life easier on newbees.

Even for experienced players who got used to the Traffics Signs (which will remain there) it will give some options to easily finetune a certain amount of logistical points moving to a certain Hex.

Best wishes,
Vic


Don't break/fix this game for newbees, please.
More options per settings is always welcome, however.



Destragon -> RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta12 (last update 25 june!) (7/2/2020 3:18:52 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Vic

I am in the middle of adding some basic pull systems to the Logistics systems.

I really hope that works for assets. If assets automatically pulled exactly as many logistics points as they need to be productive and ignored traffic signs, it would be a godsend.



zgrssd -> RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta12 (last update 25 june!) (7/2/2020 1:50:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: eddieballgame

Don't break/fix this game for newbees, please.
More options per settings is always welcome, however.



quote:

ORIGINAL: Destragon

I really hope that works for assets. If assets automatically pulled exactly as many logistics points as they need to be productive and ignored traffic signs, it would be a godsend.

For me it sounds like he is taking the System in place for unit (Operational Supply), and expanding it to work for assets as well.



Vic -> RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta12 (last update 25 june!) (7/2/2020 3:56:18 PM)

Well... the next Beta will be a bit experimental. So if curious try v104-beta2 (coming soon)... if you do not want any chance to end up in a mess ... hold off for a few days.
I am quite sure I am on the right track. But well... the proof will be in the pudding, right?



ZiggyMaca -> RE: Open Beta Patch v1.01a-beta1 (7/2/2020 4:08:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GodwinW

quote:

-Reduced the chance for a Decision to be communicated through Metrics by a factor of 10.


What does this mean? :p I've searched through the manual but didn't find anything about Metrics. I hope there's no chance to suddenly get reports in Fahrenheit and Yards :D

Edit nvm lol.. it's the metrics collected for improving the game.. lol!

Metrics are sent to Vic to analyze the game, he is reducing the volume of sent messages. Right Vic?



Vic -> RE: Open Beta Patch v1.01a-beta1 (7/2/2020 4:25:57 PM)

Roger that



Vic -> RE: Open Beta Patch v1.04-beta2 (last update 2nd july!) (7/2/2020 4:39:41 PM)

And i posted the beta with the new Pull Points system added to the existing systems.

This will require some fine-tuning for sure. Looking forward to your feedback.

Best wishes,
Vic



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