Snipers in future versions (Full Version)

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General Mayhem -> Snipers in future versions (7/4/2001 3:06:00 AM)

As snipers are becoming more tough, do they also become less lethal in future version? They seem to do some amazing feats unsupressed. I'm asking as my halftrack was assaulted by lone sniper who immobilized it. Then it shot couple of my rangers as I tried to answer the fire. I admit, I was being far too cocky as tried to drive with armored half-track carrying 8 rangers next to building where I knew only one sniper was carrying a Kar 98 rifle.... :eek: I was playing from 'Utah to Rhein' the first battle, and it was the sniper on the building near the 57mm gun. [ July 03, 2001: Message edited by: General Mayhem ] [ July 03, 2001: Message edited by: General Mayhem ]



Warrior -> (7/4/2001 3:43:00 AM)

Don't feel bad, I've had snipers destroy tanks.



Paul Vebber -> (7/4/2001 4:08:00 AM)

Probably killed the driver and then it crashed?



General Mayhem -> (7/4/2001 4:21:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Warrior: Don't feel bad, I've had snipers destroy tanks.
:eek:



panda124c -> (7/4/2001 4:27:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Warrior: Don't feel bad, I've had snipers destroy tanks.
If he's good real good he can lay that round off the turret hatch handle then off the breach, off the rear of the turret ring between the tank commanders legs and through the drivers seat causing him to stomp on the accelerator and crash into the river. :eek: :D



General Mayhem -> (7/4/2001 4:42:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Paul Vebber: Probably killed the driver and then it crashed?
I don't think any of the crew got killed. In game terms, M2 armor is anyway bit thick to stop bullets, so no bullet should go through it. In real life ome maybe could hit the driver, altough I'm not sure what kind of protection M2 drivers exactly had? Also half-track was on road, surrounded by flat Normandy ground. Only thing it could have hitten was the building, but the half-track was going past the house. Allright, maybe I'll wrote a conspiracy book where I speculate there must have been two guys with bazookas that I didn't see in the style:"Conspiracy of St-Mer-Englise, a crossfire that killed a driver and two rangers" Then Oliver Stone makes a movie about it, and I become filthy rich! :D



BigDuke66 -> (7/4/2001 4:52:00 AM)

Maybe we have any real Snipers in the forum, if so please tell us about your Experience and how you do your "Job". If I'm not wrong Snipers try to kill any confuse the enemy(where they prefer to kill important personal or officers) on greater distance then any soldier would nomally even try to shot. And if they hit a few or get in any danger the try to reach a new good position from where the start shooting again. If this is it, then the Snipers in SP are really far from realistic.



Warrior -> (7/4/2001 6:59:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Paul Vebber: Probably killed the driver and then it crashed?
I think he popped the commander, then killed the crew and reduced the tank to rubble by beating on it and them with his rifle butt. :D



sven -> (7/4/2001 7:04:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Warrior: I think he popped the commander, then killed the crew and reduced the tank to rubble by beating on it and them with his rifle butt. :D
Hey REMF that guy was an ARMY OF ONE!



Warrior -> (7/4/2001 8:33:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by sven: Hey REMF that guy was an ARMY OF ONE!
Get with the program, Sven! REMF is dead. :D



TheOriginalOverlord -> (7/4/2001 10:05:00 AM)

quote:

Hey REMF that guy was an ARMY OF ONE!
Army of One? More like "Too Cute to Shoot" :p



JTGEN -> (7/4/2001 8:29:00 PM)

quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hey REMF that guy was an ARMY OF ONE! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well after having an fun evening with the new dvd release of First Blood and my experiences with the snipers in SPWAW, I must assume their names are something like Rambo, john J.



krull -> (7/4/2001 9:16:00 PM)

Shoot more than Once. AHHA NOT me i made it 42 years as a Sniper by being smart not stupid. Move Or hide after you fire . few time si fired more than once was When set up in a guarded postion in middle of freindly troops. officers Ncos And machine gun crews where primary targets or any fool dum enough to stick his head out of an armored vehicle. SP WaW is kinda unrealistic with snipers shooting alot. But they are hard to spot becuas emost fire move toa new spot. Or just hide. Never understood how soe people say they overun or melee snipers. How? what self respecting Sniper is gona stand up and fight. hes gona high tail it out there or hide and get in another shot at a later time.



General Mayhem -> (7/4/2001 11:48:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by krull: Shoot more than Once. AHHA NOT me i made it 42 years as a Sniper by being smart not stupid. Move Or hide after you fire . few time si fired more than once was When set up in a guarded postion in middle of freindly troops. officers Ncos And machine gun crews where primary targets or any fool dum enough to stick his head out of an armored vehicle. SP WaW is kinda unrealistic with snipers shooting alot. But they are hard to spot becuas emost fire move toa new spot. Or just hide. Never understood how soe people say they overun or melee snipers. How? what self respecting Sniper is gona stand up and fight. hes gona high tail it out there or hide and get in another shot at a later time.
They have a low self esteem but lot of courage? :D I'm sure they aren't ordinary snipers. These snipers have head bands, muscular body, and they carry a bow and they shoot explosive arrows. 'anthem from Rambo here' [ July 04, 2001: Message edited by: General Mayhem ]



Igor -> (7/5/2001 5:24:00 AM)

Three things about that poor 'track; first, 7.92 FMJ will go right through it's armor at point blank range (but not out again; it just bounces around for a while). Second, if that sniper was in a building, what kept him from shooting down through the open top? Finally, at 50 yards or less, how hard is it for a trained sniper with a good rifle to put a bullet through the vision slits in front of the driver? All of which overlooks the dreaded close assault routine which assumes that the sniper *could* have won a satchel charge in a poker game...



Jasper -> (7/5/2001 1:40:00 PM)

Do you know why Russian lost the initial assualt against Finnish troops.... The story goes like that...... "This is how the story goes.... "Comrade Colonel, Comrade Colonel !!!" we need to retreat, said the Corporal. "Why!!!! are u a traitor?!" the Colonel said. "No comrade Colonel, our initial assault, we lost four KV in the forest, after a mopping, we captured three snipers, each of them are carrying 3 152mm artillery shell. When our tank goes pass by, they climb on top the tree and drop it on top the tank!!!" Thus our four KV were lost to the snipers.......... Why am I losing so many tanks to sniper................My infantry was beside the tank and that sniper assault and destroyed my tank (my only 4 KVs)????????? Now you know why Russian initial assault didnt work, becasue the bloody sniper carry three rounds of 152 mm artillery shell in their back pack..... :confused:



General Mayhem -> (7/5/2001 6:58:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by Casper: Do you know why Russian lost the initial assualt against Finnish troops.... The story goes like that...... "This is how the story goes.... "Comrade Colonel, Comrade Colonel !!!" we need to retreat, said the Corporal. "Why!!!! are u a traitor?!" the Colonel said. "No comrade Colonel, our initial assault, we lost four KV in the forest, after a mopping, we captured three snipers, each of them are carrying 3 152mm artillery shell. When our tank goes pass by, they climb on top the tree and drop it on top the tank!!!" Thus our four KV were lost to the snipers.......... Why am I losing so many tanks to sniper................My infantry was beside the tank and that sniper assault and destroyed my tank (my only 4 KVs)????????? Now you know why Russian initial assault didnt work, becasue the bloody sniper carry three rounds of 152 mm artillery shell in their back pack..... :confused:
Nah, they had same trainer as Lee Harvey Oswald. Bullets just zig zig from ventilation to inside tank, finally passing through each and every crew member. It just needs lot of practice. :D



General Mayhem -> (7/5/2001 7:02:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by Igor: Three things about that poor 'track; first, 7.92 FMJ will go right through it's armor at point blank range (but not out again; it just bounces around for a while). Second, if that sniper was in a building, what kept him from shooting down through the open top? Finally, at 50 yards or less, how hard is it for a trained sniper with a good rifle to put a bullet through the vision slits in front of the driver? All of which overlooks the dreaded close assault routine which assumes that the sniper *could* have won a satchel charge in a poker game...
Still.... I can understand the driver got shot. But if it would have happend on clear ground that was totally level, would shooting the driver then wrecked the half-track? Unlikely. And I'm sure more than one person of the crew can drive the half track.



troopie -> (7/5/2001 7:12:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by General Mayhem: Still.... I can understand the driver got shot. But if it would have happend on clear ground that was totally level, would shooting the driver then wrecked the half-track? Unlikely. And I'm sure more than one person of the crew can drive the half track.
American or Canadian, yes. Other countries probably not. One of the advantages the US and Canada had was most of their soldiers already knew how to drive. troopie



Jasper -> (7/5/2001 7:33:00 PM)

Nah.....it is the new turbo plasma rifle there are using........... :p



Igor -> (7/6/2001 1:16:00 AM)

"Still.... I can understand the driver got shot. But if it would have happend on clear ground that was totally level, would shooting the driver then wrecked the half-track? Unlikely. And I'm sure more than one person of the crew can drive the half track." You should note that a vehicle is considered wrecked when it loses it's crew. If that sniper shot both the commander and the driver with his "shot" of several actual bullets, then the halftrack would be replaced with a flaming wreck even though the total damage was limited to blood stains on the floor (and the odd brains scattered around the seat). Interestingly, if one of the crew was spared then he could still drive while firing the AAMG, calling in artillery, and making a damn fine cup of coffee...



krull -> (7/6/2001 1:30:00 AM)

Probably those old half tracks had slits with no glass until later on. Doesnt realy matter thru. If its the finns then Yes Sniper shoot thru one end of it and out the other =)



General Mayhem -> (7/6/2001 2:09:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Igor: "Still.... I can understand the driver got shot. But if it would have happend on clear ground that was totally level, would shooting the driver then wrecked the half-track? Unlikely. And I'm sure more than one person of the crew can drive the half track." You should note that a vehicle is considered wrecked when it loses it's crew. If that sniper shot both the commander and the driver with his "shot" of several actual bullets, then the halftrack would be replaced with a flaming wreck even though the total damage was limited to blood stains on the floor (and the odd brains scattered around the seat). Interestingly, if one of the crew was spared then he could still drive while firing the AAMG, calling in artillery, and making a damn fine cup of coffee...
But it wasn't a wreck, only immobilized. Crew was in there still. Later when it got shot by Panther, 3 man crew got out.



ruxius -> (7/6/2001 6:36:00 AM)

Snipers tougher yes, but I hope with a major rarity factor...



Igor -> (7/6/2001 8:03:00 AM)

"But it wasn't a wreck, only immobilized. Crew was in there still. Later when it got shot by Panther, 3 man crew got out." Ah, I see (said the blind man). Perhaps he shot out the tires, or put a bullet in the radiator?



General Mayhem -> (7/6/2001 7:59:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by Igor: "But it wasn't a wreck, only immobilized. Crew was in there still. Later when it got shot by Panther, 3 man crew got out." Ah, I see (said the blind man). Perhaps he shot out the tires, or put a bullet in the radiator?
Everything is of course possible, but it does not mean it can happen. In my experience, regular machinegun or rifle fire do not seem to hit those same places in armored half-tracks, even by chance in the game. We can discuss is it realistic, but in all fairness I think snipers rifle fire shouldn't either then. Anyway how do you account for the destroyed tanks we've been talking in this same thread? They're part of same problem with snipers.



lnp4668 -> (7/6/2001 8:06:00 PM)

Well, with 6.0 rules, the snipers could definitely makes great scouts, if you sets their range to 0. Hard to spot, hard to kill, definitely easy to abuse.



Larry Holt -> (7/6/2001 8:24:00 PM)

It seems to me that there is a distinction between snipers and marksmen. Sniper is a full time position requireing much training and practice. A sniper should be real hard to spot, hit nearly every time and very costly. No army can afford to have such trained soldiers in each company or even battalion. Marksmen are regular soldiers who have undergone a week (perhaps more) of training and gone back to their units. You would expect to find them in all infantry companies and above, perhaps in many platoons. Perhaps a rarity factor can prevent real snipers from being too common.



john g -> (7/7/2001 2:57:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by lnp4668: Well, with 6.0 rules, the snipers could definitely makes great scouts, if you sets their range to 0. Hard to spot, hard to kill, definitely easy to abuse.
You seem to forget the WWII US Marines had TOE scout-snipers, their snipers already acted as scouts and vice versa. Read about the scout-sniper platoon at Betio. They assaulted fortifications as well or better than the regular marines. thanks John.



BruceAZ -> (7/7/2001 9:29:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Casper: Nah.....it is the new turbo plasma rifle there are using........... :p
Man, I gotta get me one of them!! :eek: :eek:



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