RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (Full Version)

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Lowpe -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (7/13/2020 2:21:00 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: scout1

Also, I believe I may have a solution relative to this AAR and my access .... Perfectly happy to provide you Japanese Press Releases if you would be so kind as to post on this site ...

This way I won't access your AAR and ponder your strategies .....




Very good idea. [:)]




PaxMondo -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (7/13/2020 2:54:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: scout1

Also, I believe I may have a solution relative to this AAR and my access .... Perfectly happy to provide you Japanese Press Releases if you would be so kind as to post on this site ...

This way I won't access your AAR and ponder your strategies .....




Very good idea. [:)]

Ah, propoganda ... Ahh, legitimate news from the eastern perspective. Yes, that will be quite entertaining to follow.

[&o][&o][&o]




Alfred -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (7/13/2020 4:11:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Intel Monkey is huge help as allies to organize intel. I feel it is almost a cheat it is so much a help.


I don't really have much experience using it. Almost 0. Haven't been the Allies in a long long time and only against the original ironman.

Maybe I won't use it if it is that powerful.

I thought tracker would be of some use digging into the TOE of Allied forces, plus of course managing my plane builds![:D]



[;)]


I use no third party program at all. This abstinence allows me to get deep into the weeds of how things function.

Alfred




BBfanboy -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (7/13/2020 11:45:42 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: scout1

btw,

The Japanese government continues to receive unconfirmed reports of Allied atrocities upon Asian communities ....... The Imperial Government continues to look into these allegations....

We can confirm that the British are denying the people of India the right to collect salt from the sea, making them pay for the inferior British salt that lacks iodine and other elements found in seawater. The British have been observed beating Indian salt farmers and destroying their harvest. Source: Mohandas Gandhi.




Lowpe -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (7/13/2020 12:43:21 PM)

Been looking at the Allied oob, probably the first time in 6 or more years.[X(] Course, I kind of know the ships and planes, but there are a lot of interesting units with neat devices. So many go away.[:(] Such great diversity on how to spend PP.[:)]

You swap out Japanese economic management for pool device management. All the Allied factories just kind of sit there.[:(]

I don't think I have ever disbanded a ground unit before. I am going to have to brush up on that.[:D] If they don't surrender first, that is.[;)]









Lowpe -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (7/13/2020 12:45:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Intel Monkey is huge help as allies to organize intel. I feel it is almost a cheat it is so much a help.


I don't really have much experience using it. Almost 0. Haven't been the Allies in a long long time and only against the original ironman.

Maybe I won't use it if it is that powerful.

I thought tracker would be of some use digging into the TOE of Allied forces, plus of course managing my plane builds![:D]



[;)]


I use no third party program at all. This abstinence allows me to get deep into the weeds of how things function.

Alfred


I try to use the screens in the game first. But ship & plane upgrades and especially finding them is tedious in game I find. Plus finding devices...




BBfanboy -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (7/13/2020 1:01:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Intel Monkey is huge help as allies to organize intel. I feel it is almost a cheat it is so much a help.


I don't really have much experience using it. Almost 0. Haven't been the Allies in a long long time and only against the original ironman.

Maybe I won't use it if it is that powerful.

I thought tracker would be of some use digging into the TOE of Allied forces, plus of course managing my plane builds![:D]



[;)]


I use no third party program at all. This abstinence allows me to get deep into the weeds of how things function.

Alfred


I try to use the screens in the game first. But ship & plane upgrades and especially finding them is tedious in game I find. Plus finding devices...


Things like finding Dutch CM Rigel that first has a normal upgrade and then becomes eligible to refit as a precious AR! The AR change is not visible until after the first upgrade.
Then there are the US DDs that can convert to APDs, but only if you do not upgrade them first. Same with upgrading some of the Lassen C2 cargo ships - it stops any chance of refitting them as AEs.




RangerJoe -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (7/13/2020 1:17:18 PM)

Take a look at what some of the smaller Dutch vessels will convert to.





Lowpe -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (7/13/2020 1:25:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
it stops any chance of refitting them as AEs.


Never had an AE before. What month do they activate? Please say June 44, since so many Japanese devices activate then.




RangerJoe -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (7/13/2020 1:42:21 PM)

As soon as you get them. But underway replenishment does not start until 1 January 1945. Convert every one.




Lowpe -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (7/13/2020 3:56:44 PM)

I am going to kindly ask that the esteemed Japanese representative bow out of the AAR for now.[:)][&o] No harm done if he reads the next few messages.[8D]

Any missives to or from him will be dutifully passed along and posted or emailed as circumstance dictates.

Imminent war warnings have been issued from Washington....thankfully the Navy had the foresight to station the Pacific Fleet forward at Pearl Harbor and can react quickly to any Japanese aggression.[;)]

General MacArthur, is as we understand it, revamping his defense of the Philippines.

The Dutch and the British seem prepared -- the powerful Prince of Wales is near Singapore. A testimony of how seriously the British want to persuade the Japanese to leave alone their Jewel of the Pacific.

The next move is Japan's!





[image]local://upfiles/44178/A2CFC812C4AE4BD08F86BD200B2598E7.jpg[/image]

I should point out that they have been repeatedly warned of imminent war...so many times in fact, they might not take the latest warning too seriously.




CV10 -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (7/13/2020 3:57:33 PM)

Good luck!




Lowpe -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (7/13/2020 4:01:03 PM)

Crafty Dutch hiding the true capabilities of their ships:



[image]local://upfiles/44178/039A5D9BF3AD404BA6E7F53194AFE34C.jpg[/image]

How many little nuggets will I discover? This picture has been approved by the Dutch Censors.[;)]




RangerJoe -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (7/13/2020 4:01:40 PM)

Good Luck!

Did Ernest King send General Short a message about how he wargamed a surprise attack on Pearl Harbor with the USS Lexington? If I remember correctly, it was in 1938 on a Sunday. It was a complete surprise . . . [8|]




Lowpe -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (7/13/2020 4:14:21 PM)

My favorite screen in the game, and I can't do anything with it!

[image]local://upfiles/44178/5E707EFBFD094E399DB0A7051019837E.jpg[/image]




RangerJoe -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (7/13/2020 4:40:08 PM)

You can set production to "NO" and you can keep factories from upgrading.




BBfanboy -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (7/13/2020 7:51:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

As soon as you get them. But underway replenishment does not start until 1 January 1945. Convert every one.

Yes, convert the Lassen AEs but not all the xAKs that convert to AKEs. I convert the xAKs that become 4900 capacity AKEs because they can handle BBs well (except the Iowa Class). Haven't found a need for more AKEs than that because I use the ADs and AGs as intended to rearm DDs and ASW vessels respectively.
I also found that I needed those xAKs hauling supplies for the first year of the war, until enough Liberty ships are available.




Lowpe -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (7/13/2020 10:02:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

I also found that I needed those xAKs hauling supplies for the first year of the war, until enough Liberty ships are available.


Frankly, surprised a bit to hear that.




Lowpe -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (7/13/2020 10:57:33 PM)

We are probably about a week away from having the first turn processed and run....While Japan works diligently upon my destruction, I am figuring out my OOB.

Upcoming topics of consideration will be how does all of Andy's new bases change the ground war in Burma, China, Malaya. How I plan on spending my early PP. Overall tactics to be used.

I think some of it should be quite different and hopefully interesting. Whether it works or not....we will let the game find out.[;)]





scout1 -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (7/14/2020 12:14:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I am going to kindly ask that the esteemed Japanese representative bow out of the AAR for now.[:)][&o] No harm done if he reads the next few messages.[8D]

Any missives to or from him will be dutifully passed along and posted or emailed as circumstance dictates.

Imminent war warnings have been issued from Washington....thankfully the Navy had the foresight to station the Pacific Fleet forward at Pearl Harbor and can react quickly to any Japanese aggression.[;)]

General MacArthur, is as we understand it, revamping his defense of the Philippines.

The Dutch and the British seem prepared -- the powerful Prince of Wales is near Singapore. A testimony of how seriously the British want to persuade the Japanese to leave alone their Jewel of the Pacific.

The next move is Japan's!





[image]local://upfiles/44178/A2CFC812C4AE4BD08F86BD200B2598E7.jpg[/image]

I should point out that they have been repeatedly warned of imminent war...so many times in fact, they might not take the latest warning too seriously.


The Imperial GHQ is signing off ..... The Allies continue to their War-like attitude unfortunately ....... Future correspondence will be thru the Tokyo Free Press passed along through mutual and trusted media portals ...... [8D]




BBfanboy -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (7/14/2020 1:16:03 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

I also found that I needed those xAKs hauling supplies for the first year of the war, until enough Liberty ships are available.


Frankly, surprised a bit to hear that.

Against the AI, I kept a lot more bases to build and units to feed ...[;)]




Lowpe -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (7/14/2020 2:16:59 AM)

Now that the Japanese have left.... (this stuff is top secret, plz [sm=character0085.gif])

I thought I could talk about the usual stuff, putting Marine fighters on the Carriers (thanks Michael), turning off HI in Oz, running away and hiding, but that is not for me....mostly[:)]

The only clue I have is that Scout1 said he was not much of a Pearl Harbor strike fan...."my carriers have more important things to do." I take that to mean Oz, India but not Fiji to Alaska. Well, well, we shall see.

This whole operation is simply designed to throw a monkey wrench into the time stressed Japanese Juggernaut that is Scenario 2 (beefed up by AndyMac) and to remind everyone that the game is War In the Pacific (not 50 divisions slogging it out in mosquito infested Burma or circumnavigating Oz with the KB). [:D]

I realize I can't hold any of this if I even take any of it, but if it diverts/slows down the Empire in the critical invasion bonus time, then it will be worth it. If ignored for a bit, then PBY's can fly recon for subs.

There is multiple goals that are somewhat independent others that might cascade...but everything will be moving from day 1 to accomplish this (that is if I am allowed to move them[;)]).

Whatever the outcome, the fleet carriers will retreat to the West Coast and train, along with the heavy cruisers. Battleships will hide from the beginning, but I plan to be aggressive with destroyers and light cruisers generally speaking.

Yes, yes, I realize my ships crew experience is like 35 at night across the board and my troops not much better. The pilots suck, and some still fly buffaloes and devastators (argh[:@]). I will endeavor to make do with the tools at hand.

So, you dedicated AFBs -- how crazy am I? Crazy like Kimmel? Am I setting the stage for Japanese AV?




[image]local://upfiles/44178/8363A012A363452D9F0DAE81C8E34A3E.jpg[/image]

PS: Oops, left off the graphic that some troops will leave for Haha-Jimi too! That is Phase 2. [X(]




Evoken -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (7/14/2020 4:06:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Now that the Japanese have left.... (this stuff is top secret, plz [sm=character0085.gif])

I thought I could talk about the usual stuff, putting Marine fighters on the Carriers (thanks Michael), turning off HI in Oz, running away and hiding, but that is not for me....mostly[:)]

The only clue I have is that Scout1 said he was not much of a Pearl Harbor strike fan...."my carriers have more important things to do." I take that to mean Oz, India but not Fiji to Alaska. Well, well, we shall see.

This whole operation is simply designed to throw a monkey wrench into the time stressed Japanese Juggernaut that is Scenario 2 (beefed up by AndyMac) and to remind everyone that the game is War In the Pacific (not 50 divisions slogging it out in mosquito infested Burma or circumnavigating Oz with the KB). [:D]

I realize I can't hold any of this if I even take any of it, but if it diverts/slows down the Empire in the critical invasion bonus time, then it will be worth it. If ignored for a bit, then PBY's can fly recon for subs.

There is multiple goals that are somewhat independent others that might cascade...but everything will be moving from day 1 to accomplish this (that is if I am allowed to move them[;)]).

Whatever the outcome, the fleet carriers will retreat to the West Coast and train, along with the heavy cruisers. Battleships will hide from the beginning, but I plan to be aggressive with destroyers and light cruisers generally speaking.

Yes, yes, I realize my ships crew experience is like 35 at night across the board and my troops not much better. The pilots suck, and some still fly buffaloes and devastators (argh[:@]). I will endeavor to make do with the tools at hand.

So, you dedicated AFBs -- how crazy am I? Crazy like Kimmel? Am I setting the stage for Japanese AV?




[image]local://upfiles/44178/8363A012A363452D9F0DAE81C8E34A3E.jpg[/image]

PS: Oops, left off the graphic that some troops will leave for Haha-Jimi too! That is Phase 2. [X(]

I like your unorthodox approach [&o]
1)I never had the need to turn off HI in OZ , just start shipping fuel from day 2
2)Allied early amphibious capability really sucks your plan might be too ambitious for allied reality [X(]
3)You dont have enough escorts in early war for all the convoys so i would recommend babysitting DD's (specially Clemsons that can be converted to whole bunch of usefull classes) , CL's and CA's are plentyfull and great for raiding




Lowpe -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (7/14/2020 4:47:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Evoken

3)You dont have enough escorts in early war for all the convoys so i would recommend babysitting DD's (specially Clemsons that can be converted to whole bunch of usefull classes) , CL's and CA's are plentyfull and great for raiding



Thanks.[:)]

I have a total and complete aversion to using destroyers that zip around at 30 knots or more for escorts. Not gonna happen.[:)] I know I will have to be creative here, and have some ideas. I fully expect to post absolutely staggering destroyer losses in the game.[:D]

Nor will I be converting them to Destroyer Escort but maybe, just maybe I might make 2-3 APD for use in New Guinea. I haven't scoured the OOB enough to know about that yet. My thinking is to do without the APD conversion all together. That is one of the great joys of WITP AE....so many ways to solve problems.

Speaking of problems, a big one with early American heavy cruisers is that they sink in combat or to Iboats at an alarming rate. Will try to get them some night experience first, or figure out how to get day encounters. Most likely send them to training school with whatever battleships survive the opening.

After having played Japan in all types of games, always to the end, I know what true deprivation is, and even on Dec 8th, 1942 the Allies don't have it.[;)][:D]

PS: After checking some of the OOB, there are enough relatively fast small xap in New Zealand, Australia and I think even the US has one in San Diego at start to cover for the one APD at game start in the USN. Plus there is a slow steady trickle of APDs arriving...so I really doubt I will be converting the destroyers to APD. Plus the handful of AMC available. Disappointing to see that Allied CM can't carry some troops. Oh well.







RangerJoe -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (7/14/2020 6:36:07 PM)

I usually end up converting the 4-pipers to APDs since they drastically improve their ASW immediately, plus they are useful escorts for invasions. While they can carry small units, for the large invasions I use them to dump a few supplies on the beach right away. Later they can bring in small units that don't have a lot of equipment. They can also handle small invasions - which is what they were designed for.

Don't forget, you can lay minefields with dutch minelaying subs the same turn as the invasion. [;)] In fact, that might even be a good use for American subs instead of Mark 14s.




Lowpe -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (7/14/2020 6:39:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

I usually end up converting the 4-pipers to APDs since they drastically improve their ASW immediately, plus they are useful escorts for invasions. While they can carry small units, for the large invasions I use them to dump a few supplies on the beach right away. Later they can bring in small units that don't have a lot of equipment. They can also handle small invasions - which is what they were designed for.

Don't forget, you can lay minefields with dutch minelaying subs the same turn as the invasion. [;)] In fact, that might even be a good use for American subs instead of Mark 14s.



What am I missing? I don't see where they can carry supplies, just troops.

Dutch mines don't replenish?




Lowpe -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (7/14/2020 6:48:40 PM)

I feel pretty comfortable going for Marcus and more on Dec 8th, depending where the KB goes.

I really want to fight hard in China, and have lots of strategies to try out. This is one of them.

5 Indian Mountain Gun units (one will die at Singers), air mobile, under 100 pp each, could be flown into China and setup and dig in along the Kunming roads. It would boost the AT capability of the Chinese, and act as damage soaks. 2 days worth of PP, that is a bit steep, but if it means holding for longer at the Kunming road, I will take it. Not sure what other units take the mountain gun, but production is 12 a month and they start at roughly 50% TOE.


[image]local://upfiles/44178/63CC0A39523946E7B5C8622130DEABDC.jpg[/image]




RangerJoe -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (7/14/2020 7:21:58 PM)

The APDs can carry supplies instead of troops. It may not be much but it will be there during the first wave.

You might want to send the base forces in Burma to the Chinese mountains for a little AAA protection as well as the air ground crew support.

There are two Dutch subs, I think the O16 and the O20 if I remember correctly, that are minelayers besides carrying torpedoes. You should know where the Japanese like to invade and stage air units plus base ships from like Jolo. [X(] Keep the minesweepers busy.

Three of the Dutch PT boats carry depth charges. I would not upgrade them if they survive. You can use them to annoy minisubs later in the game if they are left behind at a port.

A lot of the smaller Dutch vessels can convert to small but useful support vessels.




RangerJoe -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (7/14/2020 7:26:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I feel pretty comfortable going for Marcus and more on Dec 8th, depending where the KB goes.

I really want to fight hard in China, and have lots of strategies to try out. This is one of them.

5 Indian Mountain Gun units (one will die at Singers), air mobile, under 100 pp each, could be flown into China and setup and dig in along the Kunming roads. It would boost the AT capability of the Chinese, and act as damage soaks. 2 days worth of PP, that is a bit steep, but if it means holding for longer at the Kunming road, I will take it. Not sure what other units take the mountain gun, but production is 12 a month and they start at roughly 50% TOE.
[image]local://upfiles/44178/63CC0A39523946E7B5C8622130DEABDC.jpg[/image]


I think that the 3.7 inch mountain gun is used later when some of the Indian/Commonwealth units change their TO&E for more mobility through the jungles.

You might also get more of them in your reinforcement convoys.




Lowpe -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (7/14/2020 9:34:55 PM)

I recall the Dutch sub laying miners...from NYGiants years and years ago. Happy memories.[:)]

I also recall, Alfred mentioning to save a few Dutch bomber squadrons and sure enough they get 45 Mitchells in 03-42. More than enough to fill out 4 squadrons of 9 (I think that is the Dutch bomber size). They would make for strong ASW platforms I think, which in turn would free up other British or American bomber squadrons for the air bridge.

But they are all restricted. I can see one method, and that would be to swap a base in Oz to Dutch control. The other was a method Alfred recommended which I don't know if it will work or not, but knowing Alfred does.

I believe Dutch pilot pools are exceptionally weak to non-existent which means these are for rear area usage.

The Dutch also get 27 P-40 E at the same time at the B25s and a dozen Hurricane IIb, so you could field 1 to 2 squadrons of them in the rear area. Probably just 1.

And finally there are three very good AA units that could be bought out for 16pp and sent to bolster Oz. One even starts at Lautem. I see no value in the infantry and starting armored car unit.

The Mobiel Eenheid (?) tank unit does upgrade to Grants and Valentines I think, I recall fighting against them with Obvert. Probably worth saving if they come in time.






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