RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (Full Version)

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Lowpe -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (7/14/2020 9:44:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


You might also get more of them in your reinforcement convoys.


Good point. +-60 days high variable reinforcements could really be something.


How does the convoys work. It adds supply or fuel to Destination port. How about devices...you have Commonwealth, Indian and British, Canadian, Oz, NZ. Are they all a subset of Commonwealth shared devices say for artillery? Or are they all distinct or are some shared and others distinct?




RangerJoe -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (7/14/2020 11:03:48 PM)

The artillery devices are shared. Fire up the game and look at the reinforcement convoys for Cape Town and possible Aden. The convoy comes in, unloads any supplies and fuel then disbands. The devices (sometimes including squads) then go into the pools. Sometimes the Australians have their own device pools for tanks and possibly other devices, so you will see Matildas twice in the pools, some other units as well.

So don't rush to upgrade all units, use up the old devices so you don't run out of the newer ones.






RangerJoe -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (7/14/2020 11:11:44 PM)

There is an air unit that is combined Dutch and Australian. It uses the B-25C. It comes in later and you can use both Dutch and Australian pilots.

Use the Whirlaways for ASW and ASW training near Sydney and Brisbane. They are short ranged but they can spot the subs and the Australian minesweepers with 4 ASW can attack. They have short legs so if they are on convoy duty, then would need to be refueled on long trips.

Use the YMS for early convoy escorts as well. This will bring them closer to the front and at least they are doing some work along the way.

Save the Dutch air support, even just part of the main one will allow you to rebuild it with universal devices. Save any a part of any unit that is not permanently restricted, if nothing else for the extra support to be used at a base for rebuilding units. Any unit with AV can go to India and play police where garrisons are needed. This also include Filipino units.



RangerJoe -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (7/14/2020 11:23:33 PM)

If you look at the ships that can convert to AGs, you will see that they get an upgrade and increase their endurance. Since they can help your escort vessels repairs and can resupply them, they are useful. They can also completely load supplies at a large West Coast port while disbanded then included in a convoy without taking up any pier space. If you want to load resources on them, you have to have a regular cargo ship in the convoy when you give the orders to load resources although the cargo ship can leave that convoy.

Consider sending your naval APs and AKs to the East Coast if you don't need them. Let them haul supplies to Cape Town to build up the stockpile there and they are safe from the Japanese. When it will come time to upgrade them to APAs and AKAs, have them at an appropriate port. Then you can start your invasions. While that may be later than you and some others want to conquer Japan, you know how to make that difficult before the Allied parity with the KB backed by LBA.

Very short ranged xAK and tankers can also be sent to the East Coast and the UK for convoys as well, unless they are running convoys to the Hawaiian Islands to build the massive stockpile there.

Don't forget to split your air units into thirds when you load them onto ships so you don't lose the entire squadron when a ship is sunk.

Then again, consider invading a he in Japan proper with a teeny tiny unit just so the Japanese player has all of those units to supply and build early. That way, he might run into supply difficulties. [sm=innocent0009.gif][sm=crazy.gif][sm=dizzy.gif]



Lowpe -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (7/14/2020 11:36:00 PM)

Ranger,

Some of that stuff I knew, some I didn't. Good stuff.

As Japan, I would pay the Allies to early invade and activate those garrison divisions (as long as no factories were wiped out that is).




Lowpe -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (7/15/2020 1:20:02 AM)

Nice catch on the Dutch reinforcement group, another can become a fighter squadron. I looked at the pilot pools too. I think I can plan from Dec 8, and be able to use those groups with better pilots if I am careful.

I like all the smaller Allied Countries, and I hope to be able to use them more than your normal AFB.




Anachro -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (7/15/2020 1:41:25 AM)

Wait, hold up. I just spit my coffee all over my keyboard - this is an AAR of Lowpe playing THE ALLIES?!?! [&:][&:][&:]

2020. What a year! Looking forward to it.



BBfanboy -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (7/15/2020 3:03:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Crafty Dutch hiding the true capabilities of their ships:



[image]local://upfiles/44178/039A5D9BF3AD404BA6E7F53194AFE34C.jpg[/image]

How many little nuggets will I discover? This picture has been approved by the Dutch Censors.[;)]

After the June upgrade, the next "upgrade" in December is the one that offers the AR. I expect it would take some time for Rigel to repair six points of engine damage on a BB ...



Lowpe -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (7/15/2020 1:43:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Anachro

Wait, hold up. I just spit my coffee all over my keyboard - this is an AAR of Lowpe playing THE ALLIES?!?! [&:][&:][&:]

2020. What a year! Looking forward to it.


But I plan on playing them like Japan, just in backwards order.[:)]





Nomad -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (7/15/2020 3:01:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Crafty Dutch hiding the true capabilities of their ships:



[image]local://upfiles/44178/039A5D9BF3AD404BA6E7F53194AFE34C.jpg[/image]

How many little nuggets will I discover? This picture has been approved by the Dutch Censors.[;)]

After the June upgrade, the next "upgrade" in December is the one that offers the AR. I expect it would take some time for Rigel to repair six points of engine damage on a BB ...


If I read Alfred's ship repair guide right, the size does not matter with an AR, it provides the same repair capability regardless of its size.



BBfanboy -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (7/15/2020 3:32:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Crafty Dutch hiding the true capabilities of their ships:



[image]local://upfiles/44178/039A5D9BF3AD404BA6E7F53194AFE34C.jpg[/image]

How many little nuggets will I discover? This picture has been approved by the Dutch Censors.[;)]

After the June upgrade, the next "upgrade" in December is the one that offers the AR. I expect it would take some time for Rigel to repair six points of engine damage on a BB ...


If I read Alfred's ship repair guide right, the size does not matter with an AR, it provides the same repair capability regardless of its size.

I understood that to mean that it has the ability to repair the same damage, but the rate of repair is tied to the AR's repair points (hidden, but presumably based on ship size).



Lowpe -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (7/15/2020 3:43:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


I understood that to mean that it has the ability to repair the same damage, but the rate of repair is tied to the AR's repair points (hidden, but presumably based on ship size).



Ding! Incorrect![:-][:)]

If you read Alfred's ship repair as many times as I have you would know all ARs have a flat 83 (irc) IRP per day (in fact all tenders generate 83 IRP for applicable ships). So big or small doesn't matter to repair speed.

Going from memory here, so I might really have to eat some crow.[:D]



Lowpe -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (7/15/2020 3:52:25 PM)

While I wait for Japan's opening apocalyptic moves, I ran a test turn on 2 day setting to see what happens. Been so long, I couldn't remember how 2 day turns operate...and sure enough 2 days are processed on turn 1.

So, I got to looking at the Philippines and Dutch. There are a lot of games to be played here![sm=innocent0009.gif]

Small oilers, and tenders of all sorts. Big AS. Sooo many dot bases. PT boats, Qboats. Seaplane tenders. Some Dutch PC can carry supplies (hello Fast Transit my old friend -- just not so fast at 12 knots). Places to hide for a week and then spring ambushes on the less weary Japanese.[8D]

I am wondering if I can use the PT boat fleet at Manila to skirmish the IJN SAG's sent to sink the Thundering Herd. Draining them of ammo...






RangerJoe -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (7/15/2020 6:33:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Ranger,

Some of that stuff I knew, some I didn't. Good stuff.

As Japan, I would pay the Allies to early invade and activate those garrison divisions (as long as no factories were wiped out that is).


Yes, I don't know what people know or remember so I will state things that they might know. Not being rude, but also as a reminder.

As a reminder, you might want to start sending your Dutch floating docks to Australia. Those HDMLs are handy for annoying incoming fleets but also as admirals yachts. Put them in a TF, send all of the other ships into the port for repairs, the Admiral chills on the yacht keeping the same TF number. Then you fill the TF up again and have the same leader. No PPs wasted.



Lowpe -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (7/15/2020 8:15:20 PM)

Bearing in mind no plan survives contact:

Some early thinking on moving ships, bearing in mind I am not sure what I will be allowed to move on the pre turn -- I probably won't make any offensive moves anywhere pre-turn except for China that is already at war.

HK Desron to Formosa then Wenchow then Aleutians or Midway
Houston to Babeldaob then Darwin or Rabaul
Boise to Guam then Midway or Aleutians
PT boats to Sulu Sea
Disband Brit MTB at HK after a turn or two
Other MTBs to Palembang/Singers (Mersing Invasion counter perhaps)
Thinking about the Desron at Manila -- sending it east to Guam or hiding in a dot base for a few turns
Force Z to India...hard to save them if KB shows up hunting them
Heavy Cruisers out of SRA quickly, will skirmish with CL and Destroyers (go for convoys avoid SAGs)



Thundering Herd.... a lot of it towards Guam/Midway. Perhaps it can lure ammo depleted ships into aerial ambush. But also along Brunei coast, Sulu Sea to Celebes and Darwin/Java. One or two towards Pakhoi, perhaps even Wenchow.

Want to create some dot base ambushes with floats and or/safe harbors for patrols to work from and perhaps patrol boat ambush

It seems crazy for Japan to not go for Pearl to me, the only other target of merit is Force Z. I think most other openings can be accomplished with most carriers hitting Pearl. If all the planes and shipping at Pearl are untouched, I will use most of them. You probably could hunt TF Z with only Kaga if you wanted to -- I don't see an easy way to save TF Z.

You could go for some interesting land invasions by diverting the KB though.

Whither the KB? Pretty much the only question that there is right now. Then after that will it be India or Oz with a Fiji being a low probability choice (Noumea, Fiji and Alaska is a strong AV tactic). With 2 day turns I don't think Japan will go for AV all out -- which means they probably will![:)]

I am always wrong at predicting enemy behavior.[;)]



[image]local://upfiles/44178/7E768D813024454D8B0DA94F1B21DE96.jpg[/image]

Is there a way to save Task Force Z? I am thinking not.[:(]



RangerJoe -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (7/15/2020 8:44:34 PM)

If you are allowed to move Force Z, maybe even a quick trip to Singkawang on Borneo across from Singapore if you to keep him from grabbing it quickly, then on to Batavia to link up with CAs and longer ranged DD. Just to pose a threat, mind you, then retreat them. Maybe not to the Indian Ocean but rather to link up with the US Carriers in the Pacific.

Don't forget to try and save the Dewey. Someone actually did so.



Lowpe -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (7/15/2020 9:06:58 PM)

About 40 P38 devils at start. It seems like you should disband the restricted squadrons or upgrade them to something else (which would take longer but help with pilot training) and move them to the Tenth Air Force, whose HQa arrives in Aden in 42. So, off to India for them. I am leaning towards better pilot pools over speed of deployment.

Or make two squadrons and get one to India and the other to Oz. A definite attraction early on would be a CV raid that followed a P38 sweep if adequate sea room was present. I will not be sending my carriers into restricted waters.

With 60 day variable reinforcement who knows when fresh squadrons will arrive other than to say 2nd qtr or later 1942. May 1942 they start production at a pitifully low number, but their day in the sun is notoriously short too, and can be countered by a forward thinking Japan. I remember absolutely trashing Jocke's Lightnings sweeps in India in 1942. Wargamr put them all on an island in the Aleutians just in time for repeated naval bombardments.

It seems a bit foolish to make two understrength squadrons since historically their best usage is sweeping. I do like the idea of sending them to New Guinea...seems the right area for them, but perhaps India/Oz makes more game sense.

[image]local://upfiles/44178/997BBB233B014797BEF59C13DF04760B.jpg[/image]



Lowpe -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (7/15/2020 9:08:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

If you are allowed to move Force Z, maybe even a quick trip to Singkawang on Borneo across from Singapore if you to keep him from grabbing it quickly, then on to Batavia to link up with CAs and longer ranged DD. Just to pose a threat, mind you, then retreat them. Maybe not to the Indian Ocean but rather to link up with the US Carriers in the Pacific.

Don't forget to try and save the Dewey. Someone actually did so.


The USN already has Warspite, they are not getting POW while Churchill is alive.[;)]

Langley is the ship I really want to save.[:)]



RangerJoe -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (7/15/2020 9:11:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

If you are allowed to move Force Z, maybe even a quick trip to Singkawang on Borneo across from Singapore if you to keep him from grabbing it quickly, then on to Batavia to link up with CAs and longer ranged DD. Just to pose a threat, mind you, then retreat them. Maybe not to the Indian Ocean but rather to link up with the US Carriers in the Pacific.

Don't forget to try and save the Dewey. Someone actually did so.


The USN already has Warspite, they are not getting POW while Churchill is alive.[;)]

Langley is the ship I really want to save.[:)]


LOL!



RangerJoe -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (7/15/2020 9:27:35 PM)

If you disband or withdraw the restricted squadrons that do not come back, you do not get the airframes. A good use for the B-10 is to upgrade a restricted B-17 unit to them. If you can do so, also do the B-18 when you only have a few in the pools. If you want those P-38s, you have to switch fighters, you will fill up the unit and you only get some P-38s. Your call but unless you get one for two it may not be worth it.

The Filipino P-26 fighter unit does not upgrade so you might need those Peashooters there.

A good use for the B-17D would be Naval air search or ASW. Think if you managed to hit a sub with the entire bomb load! Just keep them well rested so you don't get many OPS losses.

The Hudsons I like for Naval Air Search and ASW because of their range. They can supplement the PBYs.

Night attacks with PBYs with torpedoes can be annoying. During daylight as well if there is no CAP. But PBYs are precious.

The P-40Es with drop tanks can make it to China. Get them on a rail line so damaged aircraft can be pulled out. P-40Es on a Naval strike is a nice surprise party for the Japanese. Especially combined with PT boats so the Japanese play bumper ships. Do that once and the Zero sweeps might be a little less.

The Chinese DC-2s can be used to pull parts of units out of Hong Kong, thence on to India for rebuilding and garrison duty. You don't have many Canadian units until later so you might as well save part of the unit. That saves the PPs. Save part of the Guam base force and the Wake Island units as well. They can go to the Aleutians by PBY and help build up there. The Hong Kong air units can be saved by flying them to India. Or the torpedo planes can surprise the Japanese by flying to the Philippines.

Save parts of the Base forces that start in the Philippines as well, they can rebuild in Australia.



Lowpe -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (7/15/2020 9:28:03 PM)

Not your Father's Burma! This is a real game changer, and I feel compelled to send a diplomatic note to Japan about it.[:)]



[image]local://upfiles/44178/BCCB5315341D48AF8BAB2CEE718F6B3D.jpg[/image]



RangerJoe -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (7/15/2020 9:33:00 PM)

That makes an invasion at Akyab more imperative just to flank that line to get the enemy to withdraw. Then you can move into the free fortifications.

But then again, more bases for the paratroopers to capture with intact fortifications. [:D]



Lowpe -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (7/15/2020 9:42:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

That makes an invasion at Akyab more imperative just to flank that line to get the enemy to withdraw. Then you can move into the free fortifications.

But then again, more bases for the paratroopers to capture with intact fortifications. [:D]



The British have to garrison these with something. Can't give such high forts over for free, but then with a supply draw of 150 or so per turn instead of the normal relatively full supply for fight off base, things have really changed in this theater.

Great job Andy!

PS: Message sent to Japan.[:)]



RangerJoe -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (7/15/2020 9:51:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

That makes an invasion at Akyab more imperative just to flank that line to get the enemy to withdraw. Then you can move into the free fortifications.

But then again, more bases for the paratroopers to capture with intact fortifications. [:D]



The British have to garrison these with something. Can't give such high forts over for free, but then with a supply draw of 150 or so per turn instead of the normal relatively full supply for fight off base, things have really changed in this theater.

Great job Andy!


They might also suck supply from Ramree if they are Allied. That would keep that supply from going to China. Granted, only a little but China needs all of the help it can get.



Lowpe -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (7/15/2020 10:15:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

That makes an invasion at Akyab more imperative just to flank that line to get the enemy to withdraw. Then you can move into the free fortifications.

But then again, more bases for the paratroopers to capture with intact fortifications. [:D]



The British have to garrison these with something. Can't give such high forts over for free, but then with a supply draw of 150 or so per turn instead of the normal relatively full supply for fight off base, things have really changed in this theater.

Great job Andy!


They might also suck supply from Ramree if they are Allied. That would keep that supply from going to China. Granted, only a little but China needs all of the help it can get.


The reverse, is I think more likely. The supply limit of the dot base restricts supply into the hex for local use, but not thru it. It is often common to have large forces in these hexes prior to the change, and being a non base hex it would pull supply however frequent and with whatever wastage. But now, with troops in these hexes you won't be pulling in huge amounts of supply, freeing up that supply to work its way into China as long as there are troops on the road off base in China. The trick is make sure that the Chinese troops get prioritized over your the Burma troops (if supplying China is your goal).

For example if Allies accumulate supply into Lashio or even Mandalay, and then have Chinese troops just inside the Chinese border on the road from Lashio, they will pull supply frequently from Lashio with very little wastage. Put those Chinese troops in a Paoshan, and then they will be restricted to Paoshan's daily supply limit.



RangerJoe -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (7/15/2020 10:21:16 PM)

So have your trashed Chinese units head towards Lashio or Ledo but keep them in China. At least keep them there for rebuilding.

I have yet to get that far against the computer. It always surrenders on 1 January 1943. [:(]



Lowpe -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (7/15/2020 10:29:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

So have your trashed Chinese units head towards Lashio or Ledo but keep them in China. At least keep them there for rebuilding.

I have yet to get that far against the computer. It always surrenders on 1 January 1943. [:(]



There is generally speaking no comparison between a Pbem game and an AI game with respect to China.[;)]



PaxMondo -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (7/15/2020 10:45:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Not your Father's Burma! This is a real game changer, and I feel compelled to send a diplomatic note to Japan about it.[:)]



[image]local://upfiles/44178/BCCB5315341D48AF8BAB2CEE718F6B3D.jpg[/image]

i have thought those 6/9's are an oops ....



BBfanboy -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (7/15/2020 11:07:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

So have your trashed Chinese units head towards Lashio or Ledo but keep them in China. At least keep them there for rebuilding.

I have yet to get that far against the computer. It always surrenders on 1 January 1943. [:(]

But you don't have to accept the surrender. Just tell the AI you are going to wipe it from the face of the storage device!



BBfanboy -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (7/15/2020 11:16:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Bearing in mind no plan survives contact:

Some early thinking on moving ships, bearing in mind I am not sure what I will be allowed to move on the pre turn -- I probably won't make any offensive moves anywhere pre-turn except for China that is already at war.

HK Desron to Formosa then Wenchow then Aleutians or Midway
Houston to Babeldaob then Darwin or Rabaul
Boise to Guam then Midway or Aleutians
PT boats to Sulu Sea
Disband Brit MTB at HK after a turn or two
Other MTBs to Palembang/Singers (Mersing Invasion counter perhaps)
Thinking about the Desron at Manila -- sending it east to Guam or hiding in a dot base for a few turns
Force Z to India...hard to save them if KB shows up hunting them
Heavy Cruisers out of SRA quickly, will skirmish with CL and Destroyers (go for convoys avoid SAGs)


Thundering Herd.... a lot of it towards Guam/Midway. Perhaps it can lure ammo depleted ships into aerial ambush. But also along Brunei coast, Sulu Sea to Celebes and Darwin/Java. One or two towards Pakhoi, perhaps even Wenchow.

Want to create some dot base ambushes with floats and or/safe harbors for patrols to work from and perhaps patrol boat ambush

It seems crazy for Japan to not go for Pearl to me, the only other target of merit is Force Z. I think most other openings can be accomplished with most carriers hitting Pearl. If all the planes and shipping at Pearl are untouched, I will use most of them. You probably could hunt TF Z with only Kaga if you wanted to -- I don't see an easy way to save TF Z.


Those HK MTBs can just make the NW corner of Luzon and refuel. Often they will run into IJ invasion forces and send them colliding into each other. Once they have refueled, I send them to Iba to interdict where they can. If they run out of torps, I believe there is an AGP in the Luzon area or they could run to Manila to reload. Looking to keep them pesky rather than expecting any great results from their action.

The US PTs mostly have poor skippers. IIRC, PT-31 is the one to make TF flagship. Not sure of the timing, but US PTs might be able to get in one attack from Iba on the Northern Luzon invaders before heading to the Sulu Sea or Legaspi area.

I found the Formosa IJ TFs too well protected for the 4" guns of the HK DDs. They can do good work at Samah before heading for Manila. Will be keen to see how your plans work out. Definitely some off-of-the-island thinking there. [:)]



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