|
soulsilver -> RE: OT: B-52 Pilots (10/4/2020 1:03:52 PM)
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Alpha77
@Soulsilver: Ofc Hitler can not admit that they are socialists openly.. plus I do not think that Wiki is "neutral" especially when it comes to "political" topics (as for technical data for example it is good).
I am also not a fan of the left/right paradigm..
"Adolf Hitler to Max Amann, May 1930 quotes in A History of National Socialism (Responding to Fascism Vol 2)
To put it quite clearly: we have an economic programme. Point No. 13 in that programme demands the nationalisation of all public companies, in other words socialisation, or what is known here as socialism. … the basic principle of my Party’s economic programme should be made perfectly clear and that is the principle of authority… the good of the community takes priority over that of the individual. But the State should retain control; every owner should feel himself to be an agent of the State; it is his duty not to misuse his possessions to the detriment of the State or the interests of his fellow countrymen. That is the overriding point. The Third Reich will always retain the right to control property owners. If you say that the bourgeoisie is tearing its hair over the question of private property, that does not affect me in the least. Does the bourgeoisie expect some consideration from me?… Today’s bourgeoisie is rotten to the core; it has no ideals any more; all it wants to do is earn money and so it does me what damage it can. The bourgeois press does me damage too and would like to consign me and my movement to the devil."
Alan Brown, "How socialist was national socialism"?
"Hitler was as socialist as Marx-they both shared the same ultimate goal....--.. but they differed in the methods required to achieve it"
But I value your point of view [:)]
I can agree that hitler was not an advocate of capitalism, and believed that the economy should serve the state and the people. While the nazis advocated for the nationalization of several key war related industries they were obviously not attempting to redistribute wealth in the same manner of the marxists leninists in russia. I disagree with your assumption that any degree of nationalization equals "socialism." Plenty of countries have a few nationalized industries which benefit the whole country such as the Panama canal which is owned by the state of panama and not a separate legal entity. Nazi Germany was not a conglomerate of nationalized companies owned at least in part by the state such as modern china. Key war time industries such as junkers were nationalized, with most companies remaining under private ownership. You could argue that their eventual goal was the nationalize all private industries as your quote above attests to, but their actual practice throughout their short existence hints otherwise.
People often use hitler's economic policy to prove that actually he was a leftist, and all leftists are bad/ only the left is responsible for evil ideologies such as communism and fascism, which you clearly aren't trying to do. This is quite refreshing. It also seems weird to me that the debate over whether the nazis were leftist only really occurs in the United states or in reference to US politics. But maybe that's just the result of my left wing bubble up here in Canada.
I can also agree that the right/left wing spectrum is very limiting and flawed, and I usually judge ideologies on 3 spectrums.
Redistribution of wealth (socialism) vs concentration of wealth (capitalism)
Authorian vs egalitarian
Tradition vs progressivism
I would judge the nazis to be very authoritarian, very culturally traditionalist, but mixed economically and possibly left of center within this category.
On a side note we have obviously gotten quite off track from the original purpose of the thread.
Also funny that we got into this tangent based off my response to a troll.
|
|
|
|
