RE: OT: B-52 Pilots

RE: OT: B-52 Pilots (Full Version)

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Alfred -> RE: OT: B-52 Pilots (10/4/2020 1:43:03 PM)
The Night of the Long Knives literally killed off the socialist wing of the NSDAP. Alfred

Rusty1961 -> RE: OT: B-52 Pilots (10/4/2020 7:18:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RangerJoe Private ownership but under government control with fixed wages, fixed products, plus government controlled production and selling prices is still socialism. Sounds like the US economy. Still socialism.

RangerJoe -> RE: OT: B-52 Pilots (10/4/2020 7:51:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rusty1961 quote: ORIGINAL: RangerJoe Private ownership but under government control with fixed wages, fixed products, plus government controlled production and selling prices is still socialism. Sounds like the US economy. Still socialism. That is not the US economy. It is not socialism. Bier Heil

Rusty1961 -> RE: OT: B-52 Pilots (10/4/2020 9:01:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RangerJoe quote: ORIGINAL: Rusty1961 quote: ORIGINAL: RangerJoe Private ownership but under government control with fixed wages, fixed products, plus government controlled production and selling prices is still socialism. Sounds like the US economy. Still socialism. That is not the US economy. It is not socialism. Bier Heil Fixed wages-"Minimum wage" Government control of production-EPA, FEDERAL RESERVE, etc. It isn't a "Free market" system. It is centrally planned.

GetAssista -> RE: OT: B-52 Pilots (10/4/2020 9:31:06 PM)
Y'all need to stop jumping between extremes. "it's not free market thus it must be centrally planned" and vice versa. World does not function like that. All economies in the world have something that is centrally planned (maybe except smaller Pacific islands and most savage of African countries), and something that is purely market driven (you borrowing a lawn mower from your neighbor). No country in the world runs socialism in its definitive sense. Just as no country in the world runs pure capitalism

RangerJoe -> RE: OT: B-52 Pilots (10/4/2020 9:40:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rusty1961 quote: ORIGINAL: RangerJoe quote: ORIGINAL: Rusty1961 quote: ORIGINAL: RangerJoe Private ownership but under government control with fixed wages, fixed products, plus government controlled production and selling prices is still socialism. Sounds like the US economy. Still socialism. That is not the US economy. It is not socialism. Bier Heil Fixed wages-"Minimum wage" Government control of production-EPA, FEDERAL RESERVE, etc. It isn't a "Free market" system. It is centrally planned. Incorrect. The "Minimum wage" is not the absolute only wage, people can and do earn more than that. Those entities like the EPA do not order companies to produce a certain amount of a certain product, they issue regulations based on laws passed by Congress and either approved by the President, or Congress overrides the veto. US companies and any other companies selling anything in the USA have to comply with those laws and regulations otherwise they can be fined if they are caught violating them. Maybe you should go to a US elementary school and become educated on the USA governmental system as well as simple economics. Das is sehr gut? Ja? [image]local://upfiles/52896/D9E198F2C9AD4F66ACF75962AA953E23.jpg[/image]

Rusty1961 -> RE: OT: B-52 Pilots (10/4/2020 10:06:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RangerJoe quote: ORIGINAL: Rusty1961 quote: ORIGINAL: RangerJoe quote: ORIGINAL: Rusty1961 quote: ORIGINAL: RangerJoe Private ownership but under government control with fixed wages, fixed products, plus government controlled production and selling prices is still socialism. Sounds like the US economy. Still socialism. That is not the US economy. It is not socialism. Bier Heil Fixed wages-"Minimum wage" Government control of production-EPA, FEDERAL RESERVE, etc. It isn't a "Free market" system. It is centrally planned. Incorrect. The "Minimum wage" is not the absolute only wage, people can and do earn more than that. Those entities like the EPA do not order companies to produce a certain amount of a certain product, they issue regulations based on laws passed by Congress and either approved by the President, or Congress overrides the veto. US companies and any other companies selling anything in the USA have to comply with those laws and regulations otherwise they can be fined if they are caught violating them. Maybe you should go to a US elementary school and become educated on the USA governmental system as well as simple economics. Das is sehr gut? Ja? [image]local://upfiles/52896/D9E198F2C9AD4F66ACF75962AA953E23.jpg[/image] EPA-unelected bureaucrats. Unaccountable. tax-breaks. Even more central planning.

RangerJoe -> RE: OT: B-52 Pilots (10/4/2020 10:23:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rusty1961 quote: ORIGINAL: RangerJoe quote: ORIGINAL: Rusty1961 quote: ORIGINAL: RangerJoe quote: ORIGINAL: Rusty1961 quote: ORIGINAL: RangerJoe Private ownership but under government control with fixed wages, fixed products, plus government controlled production and selling prices is still socialism. Sounds like the US economy. Still socialism. That is not the US economy. It is not socialism. Bier Heil Fixed wages-"Minimum wage" Government control of production-EPA, FEDERAL RESERVE, etc. It isn't a "Free market" system. It is centrally planned. Incorrect. The "Minimum wage" is not the absolute only wage, people can and do earn more than that. Those entities like the EPA do not order companies to produce a certain amount of a certain product, they issue regulations based on laws passed by Congress and either approved by the President, or Congress overrides the veto. US companies and any other companies selling anything in the USA have to comply with those laws and regulations otherwise they can be fined if they are caught violating them. Maybe you should go to a US elementary school and become educated on the USA governmental system as well as simple economics. Das is sehr gut? Ja? [image]local://upfiles/52896/D9E198F2C9AD4F66ACF75962AA953E23.jpg[/image] EPA-unelected bureaucrats. Unaccountable. tax-breaks. Even more central planning. Incorrect. Again, go back to elementary school and become educated in the US governmental system. The bureaucrats are accountable to Congress, the Executive, and the Courts. If you don't like the tax breaks, are a US Citizen, and eligible to vote, then vote for someone who will remove them. Otherwise, don't complain since the government is doing what they have been elected to do. [;)] From the "Das Lied der Deutschen" song: quote: Deutsche Frauen, deutsche Treue, Deutscher Wein und deutscher Sang Sollen in der Welt behalten Ihren alten sch�nen Klang, Uns zu edler Tat begeistern Unser ganzes Leben lang � \|: Deutsche Frauen, deutsche Treue, Deutscher Wein und deutscher Sang! :\| Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit F�r das deutsche Vaterland! Danach lasst uns alle streben Br�derlich mit Herz und Hand! Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit Sind des Gl�ckes Unterpfand � \|: Bl�h' im Glanze dieses Gl�ckes, Bl�he, deutsches Vaterland! :\| [sm=00000436.gif][sm=00000436.gif]

soulsilver -> RE: OT: B-52 Pilots (10/4/2020 10:31:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GetAssista Y'all need to stop jumping between extremes. "it's not free market thus it must be centrally planned" and vice versa. World does not function like that. All economies in the world have something that is centrally planned (maybe except smaller Pacific islands and most savage of African countries), and something that is purely market driven (you borrowing a lawn mower from your neighbor). No country in the world runs socialism in its definitive sense. Just as no country in the world runs pure capitalism +1 I have to agree. Some degree of government control does not equal socialism. The argument is over how much government control equals a socialist economic system. I believe that almost all countries are on a spectrum.

RangerJoe -> RE: OT: B-52 Pilots (10/4/2020 10:37:34 PM)
If you want to read about a good reason for the US FDA (Food and Drug Administration) read the book "The Jungle" by Upton Sinclair. Do so while eating sausage. Make sure that you finish your sausage. Make sure that you enjoy your sausage. Then think of the sausage in the book, also the "Pure Pork Lard."

BBfanboy -> RE: OT: B-52 Pilots (10/5/2020 12:30:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RangerJoe If you want to read about a good reason for the US FDA (Food and Drug Administration) read the book "The Jungle" by Upton Sinclair. Do so while eating sausage. Make sure that you finish your sausage. Make sure that you enjoy your sausage. Then think of the sausage in the book, also the "Pure Pork Lard." One thing that almost no one mentions about capitalism is that what we have now is NOT pure capitalism. As envisaged by the proponents of capitalism, markets were small and local and there was a possibility of anyone gathering enough capital to compete in the market for any industry - e.g. a new guy starts up a new smithy to challenge the incumbent sole blacksmith, and the forces of competition on price or quality take over. The industrial revolution changed that and those who gathered a lot of capital early were often able to shut out challengers in their industry by controlling suppliers and workers. It generally took someone with much deeper pockets to upset the established industries. Thus began the era of the "Robber Barons". Workers had no rights whatsoever to time off, sick leave, vacations or anything else. The Bolsheviks managed to set off a revolution in Russia to redress the plight of the workers but then set in place a regime that held back any incentive to work hard. In the US, Henry Ford broke the Robber Baron model by paying his workers more than the minimal wages offered elsewhere, and included better working conditions. He was rewarded with great morale and productivity, and loyalty to the company. Since Ford's time many industries followed his model and the US became a production powerhouse, but in recent times the globalization of the Stock Market has enabled the very, very rich to control economies that should be the natural result of capitalist competition. Instead of shutting out competitors like the Robber Barons did, they buy up the competing industries to gain even more control over the market. The greed of the Super-Rich Capitalists has forced governments to take some steps to redistribute the wealth the former have gained through un-capitalist activities. But the propaganda of Capitalism rails against using tax systems to take from the rich and give to the poor, or simply to repair public assets like roads and bridges - so progress on a fair capitalist system is marginal. And then the Super-Rich fund the politicians' campaigns which assures that no measure to check the rich will have teeth. So here we are, arguing about whether countries are socialist or capitalist, when in fact every country has some mix of both. We should be looking at which countries have the most successful merging of the two systems. One of the best measures I have seen is a UN rating that compares a wide variety of measures of things that affect people's lives (like medical care and education) and who is most happy with their lives. Last time I saw the results announced it was Finland and New Zealand topping the list. The key thing is not what system of economy/government you live in, but whether you feel fairness and adequate freedom of action is part of your system. Perhaps instead of buying that third big screen TV for your house, you might feel better about the world if the money went toward preserving the woods so you can take a therapeutic walk there when you need it.

Rusty1961 -> RE: OT: B-52 Pilots (10/5/2020 2:42:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RangerJoe If you want to read about a good reason for the US FDA (Food and Drug Administration) read the book "The Jungle" by Upton Sinclair. Do so while eating sausage. Make sure that you finish your sausage. Make sure that you enjoy your sausage. Then think of the sausage in the book, also the "Pure Pork Lard." The nuns made me read it. I enjoyed it. What is your point? All I'm saying is we have a centrally planned economy. When the State of California says I can't build a new home without it being solar powered I don't live in a free market economy. If the consumer isn't in charge of dictating demand and that dictation is from government you live in a centrally planned economy.

Rusty1961 -> RE: OT: B-52 Pilots (10/5/2020 2:44:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: soulsilver quote: ORIGINAL: GetAssista Y'all need to stop jumping between extremes. "it's not free market thus it must be centrally planned" and vice versa. World does not function like that. All economies in the world have something that is centrally planned (maybe except smaller Pacific islands and most savage of African countries), and something that is purely market driven (you borrowing a lawn mower from your neighbor). No country in the world runs socialism in its definitive sense. Just as no country in the world runs pure capitalism +1 I have to agree. Some degree of government control does not equal socialism. The argument is over how much government control equals a socialist economic system. I believe that almost all countries are on a spectrum. The existence of the FED destroys the concept of market forces as they can crush it with higher rates. That isn't a "free-market" if the power is not in the hands of the consumer, but a quasi-government body. . Centrally planned.

Alpha77 -> RE: OT: B-52 Pilots (10/5/2020 9:29:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rusty1961 Fixed wages-"Minimum wage" Government control of production-EPA, FEDERAL RESERVE, etc. Imho it is the other way around [:D] The big corporations, energy firms, banks etc. control the gov Eg. the fed is private..[:'(] There are many sources for this, but I heard this book is a leading one https://www.amazon.de/Creature-Jekyll-Island-Federal-Reserve/dp/0912986212 (not read myself, but I read Antony Sutton and others)

RangerJoe -> RE: OT: B-52 Pilots (10/5/2020 1:47:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rusty1961 quote: ORIGINAL: RangerJoe If you want to read about a good reason for the US FDA (Food and Drug Administration) read the book "The Jungle" by Upton Sinclair. Do so while eating sausage. Make sure that you finish your sausage. Make sure that you enjoy your sausage. Then think of the sausage in the book, also the "Pure Pork Lard." The nuns made me read it. I enjoyed it. What is your point? All I'm saying is we have a centrally planned economy. When the State of California says I can't build a new home without it being solar powered I don't live in a free market economy. If the consumer isn't in charge of dictating demand and that dictation is from government you live in a centrally planned economy. It is still not a planned economy. The government does not tell Ford how many Ford Rangers to produce, only that number dictated and no other number. If the State of California states that you can't build a home without it being solar powered that is because the legislators that were elected decided to make a law like that. If you don't like the law, vote for politicians who will change the law. Or you can move to another political jurisdiction like North Korea for its freedoms there. But just because there are building codes does not require you to build a house nor does it prohibit you from building a house. Nor does it require you to live in a certain area so if you want to, you can move to mainland China if you so desire it. "\|: Sto�et an und ruft einstimmig, Hoch, das deutsche Vaterland. :"

RangerJoe -> RE: OT: B-52 Pilots (10/5/2020 3:22:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rusty1961 quote: ORIGINAL: soulsilver quote: ORIGINAL: GetAssista Y'all need to stop jumping between extremes. "it's not free market thus it must be centrally planned" and vice versa. World does not function like that. All economies in the world have something that is centrally planned (maybe except smaller Pacific islands and most savage of African countries), and something that is purely market driven (you borrowing a lawn mower from your neighbor). No country in the world runs socialism in its definitive sense. Just as no country in the world runs pure capitalism +1 I have to agree. Some degree of government control does not equal socialism. The argument is over how much government control equals a socialist economic system. I believe that almost all countries are on a spectrum. The existence of the FED destroys the concept of market forces as they can crush it with higher rates. That isn't a "free-market" if the power is not in the hands of the consumer, but a quasi-government body. . Centrally planned. Just because something is what you call a quasi-government body does not make it a government body. You are not required to use the Federal Reserve system at all. Just because there is governmental regulation does not mean that it is not Capitalism, it just means that there is oversight. Socialism is complete ownership/control of the businesses. It is better for the system to have a uniform Federal system of regulations that each state having its own regulation with no reciprocity between states.

Rusty1961 -> RE: OT: B-52 Pilots (10/5/2020 6:37:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alpha77 quote: ORIGINAL: Rusty1961 Fixed wages-"Minimum wage" Government control of production-EPA, FEDERAL RESERVE, etc. Imho it is the other way around [:D] The big corporations, energy firms, banks etc. control the gov Eg. the fed is private..[:'(] There are many sources for this, but I heard this book is a leading one https://www.amazon.de/Creature-Jekyll-Island-Federal-Reserve/dp/0912986212 (not read myself, but I read Antony Sutton and others) It isn't 100% private as it is subject to Congressional oversight.

Rusty1961 -> RE: OT: B-52 Pilots (10/5/2020 6:38:31 PM)
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/10/04/donald-trump-signs-executive-order-increase-domestic-production-minerals-lessen-reliance-china/ Centrally planned economy defined.

Rusty1961 -> RE: OT: B-52 Pilots (10/5/2020 6:42:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RangerJoe quote: ORIGINAL: Rusty1961 quote: ORIGINAL: soulsilver quote: ORIGINAL: GetAssista Y'all need to stop jumping between extremes. "it's not free market thus it must be centrally planned" and vice versa. World does not function like that. All economies in the world have something that is centrally planned (maybe except smaller Pacific islands and most savage of African countries), and something that is purely market driven (you borrowing a lawn mower from your neighbor). No country in the world runs socialism in its definitive sense. Just as no country in the world runs pure capitalism +1 I have to agree. Some degree of government control does not equal socialism. The argument is over how much government control equals a socialist economic system. I believe that almost all countries are on a spectrum. The existence of the FED destroys the concept of market forces as they can crush it with higher rates. That isn't a "free-market" if the power is not in the hands of the consumer, but a quasi-government body. . Centrally planned. Just because something is what you call a quasi-government body does not make it a government body. You are not required to use the Federal Reserve system at all. Just because there is governmental regulation does not mean that it is not Capitalism, it just means that there is oversight. Socialism is complete ownership/control of the businesses. It is better for the system to have a uniform Federal system of regulations that each state having its own regulation with no reciprocity between states. Did you attend public school? The Fed sets the prices through it's monetary policy. They can destroy the value of the dollar. They control demand, not the consumer.

RangerJoe -> RE: OT: B-52 Pilots (10/5/2020 7:07:38 PM)
I suggest that you go to school and actually learn something. I would suggest that you study economics and political science not to mention history and philospohy. Sieg Heil, Komerade.

GetAssista -> RE: OT: B-52 Pilots (10/5/2020 7:24:43 PM)
A practicing economist here with decades of industry and academic experience o/ Misconceptions about demand side and monetary policy are everlasting. We have learned to mostly ignore them [:(] cause they are self-propagating in the general public. People naturally don't like it that someone (e.g. central bank) can print money out of thin air. So it is pretty hard to get them see the reason in the monetary matters

RangerJoe -> RE: OT: B-52 Pilots (10/5/2020 7:57:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rusty1961 quote: ORIGINAL: RangerJoe quote: ORIGINAL: Rusty1961 quote: ORIGINAL: soulsilver quote: ORIGINAL: GetAssista Y'all need to stop jumping between extremes. "it's not free market thus it must be centrally planned" and vice versa. World does not function like that. All economies in the world have something that is centrally planned (maybe except smaller Pacific islands and most savage of African countries), and something that is purely market driven (you borrowing a lawn mower from your neighbor). No country in the world runs socialism in its definitive sense. Just as no country in the world runs pure capitalism +1 I have to agree. Some degree of government control does not equal socialism. The argument is over how much government control equals a socialist economic system. I believe that almost all countries are on a spectrum. The existence of the FED destroys the concept of market forces as they can crush it with higher rates. That isn't a "free-market" if the power is not in the hands of the consumer, but a quasi-government body. . Centrally planned. Just because something is what you call a quasi-government body does not make it a government body. You are not required to use the Federal Reserve system at all. Just because there is governmental regulation does not mean that it is not Capitalism, it just means that there is oversight. Socialism is complete ownership/control of the businesses. It is better for the system to have a uniform Federal system of regulations that each state having its own regulation with no reciprocity between states. Did you attend public school? The Fed sets the prices through it's monetary policy. They can destroy the value of the dollar. They control demand, not the consumer. So the Feds tell you what to buy? That is interesting! They have never done that to me. Sieg Heil, Komraden!

Rusty1961 -> RE: OT: B-52 Pilots (10/5/2020 9:05:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RangerJoe I suggest that you go to school and actually learn something. I would suggest that you study economics and political science not to mention history and philospohy. Sieg Heil, Komerade. Okay. Be the vituperative person you are instead of refuting my assertion.

GetAssista -> RE: OT: B-52 Pilots (10/5/2020 9:12:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rusty1961 The Fed sets the prices through it's monetary policy. Correct. But more to the line of "Fed controls infation, the rate of general price level growth". Fed can't set prices on particular goods, only the general price level. And is mostly unable to change relative prices. quote: ORIGINAL: Rusty1961 They can destroy the value of the dollar. Correct. But "can" != "would". E.g. I can go in a murder spree on the street, I'm perfectly capable. But I never would. quote: ORIGINAL: Rusty1961 They control demand, not the consumer. Not correct. Everyone and their dog affects aggregate demand - Fed, government, collective consumer, foreign guys, banks with their lending propensity, etc. Nobody controls demand to a full extent though.

RangerJoe -> RE: OT: B-52 Pilots (10/5/2020 9:27:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rusty1961 quote: ORIGINAL: RangerJoe I suggest that you go to school and actually learn something. I would suggest that you study economics and political science not to mention history and philospohy. Sieg Heil, Komerade. Okay. Be the vituperative person you are instead of refuting my assertion. You are the one making ad hominem attacks with insufficient data. quote: Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit F�r das deutsche Vaterland! Danach lasst uns alle streben Br�derlich mit Herz und Hand! Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit

Rusty1961 -> RE: OT: B-52 Pilots (10/5/2020 10:49:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GetAssista quote: ORIGINAL: Rusty1961 The Fed sets the prices through it's monetary policy. Correct. But more to the line of "Fed controls infation, the rate of general price level growth". Fed can't set prices on particular goods, only the general price level. And is mostly unable to change relative prices. quote: ORIGINAL: Rusty1961 They can destroy the value of the dollar. Correct. But "can" != "would". E.g. I can go in a murder spree on the street, I'm perfectly capable. But I never would. quote: ORIGINAL: Rusty1961 They control demand, not the consumer. Not correct. Everyone and their dog affects aggregate demand - Fed, government, collective consumer, foreign guys, banks with their lending propensity, etc. Nobody controls demand to a full extent though. Hello, The Fed has been buying bonds of distressed stocks/Corps. That is central planning defined. Agreed on the micro level they can't affect the price of homes, but the macro they can affect the price of homes (and the market). About demand: Would you agree the USG and FED are having a dramatically larger affect on the Demand curve than before?

Rusty1961 -> RE: OT: B-52 Pilots (10/5/2020 10:57:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RangerJoe quote: ORIGINAL: Rusty1961 quote: ORIGINAL: RangerJoe I suggest that you go to school and actually learn something. I would suggest that you study economics and political science not to mention history and philospohy. Sieg Heil, Komerade. Okay. Be the vituperative person you are instead of refuting my assertion. You are the one making ad hominem attacks with insufficient data. quote: Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit F�r das deutsche Vaterland! Danach lasst uns alle streben Br�derlich mit Herz und Hand! Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit Wow...full blown Neo-Nazi. Matrix hits new lows!!!

Rusty1961 -> RE: OT: B-52 Pilots (10/5/2020 11:26:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RangerJoe quote: ORIGINAL: Rusty1961 quote: ORIGINAL: RangerJoe I suggest that you go to school and actually learn something. I would suggest that you study economics and political science not to mention history and philospohy. Sieg Heil, Komerade. Okay. Be the vituperative person you are instead of refuting my assertion. You are the one making ad hominem attacks with insufficient data. quote: Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit F�r das deutsche Vaterland! Danach lasst uns alle streben Br�derlich mit Herz und Hand! Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit What was the name of the bastard who twisted your soul?

RangerJoe -> RE: OT: B-52 Pilots (10/5/2020 11:47:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rusty1961 quote: ORIGINAL: RangerJoe quote: ORIGINAL: Rusty1961 quote: ORIGINAL: RangerJoe I suggest that you go to school and actually learn something. I would suggest that you study economics and political science not to mention history and philospohy. Sieg Heil, Komerade. Okay. Be the vituperative person you are instead of refuting my assertion. You are the one making ad hominem attacks with insufficient data. quote: Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit F�r das deutsche Vaterland! Danach lasst uns alle streben Br�derlich mit Herz und Hand! Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit Wow...full blown Neo-Nazi. Matrix hits new lows!!! There you go with another ad hominem attack. You probably don't know what it means, do you? quote: Und weil wir dies Land verbessern Lieben und beschirmen wir's Und das Liebste mag's uns scheinen So wie anderen V�lkern ihr's.

BBfanboy -> RE: OT: B-52 Pilots (10/5/2020 11:52:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rusty1961 quote: ORIGINAL: RangerJoe quote: ORIGINAL: Rusty1961 quote: ORIGINAL: RangerJoe I suggest that you go to school and actually learn something. I would suggest that you study economics and political science not to mention history and philospohy. Sieg Heil, Komerade. Okay. Be the vituperative person you are instead of refuting my assertion. You are the one making ad hominem attacks with insufficient data. quote: Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit F�r das deutsche Vaterland! Danach lasst uns alle streben Br�derlich mit Herz und Hand! Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit What was the name of the bastard who twisted your soul? You just made three consecutive posts in reply to the same post by RJ. Who is living inside whose head? [8\|][sm=innocent0009.gif]

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