D-Day start campaign issues (Full Version)

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Hoggorm -> D-Day start campaign issues (11/3/2020 8:35:16 AM)

Hello!

On my first try of the D-Day start campaign. First problem is of course (I guess) supply.

Currently at turn 10 I see that very few of my units receive any supply at all. Those that do get supply receive just a fraction of what they need.

I have not been able to create very many depots, (due to a mistake with the rail repair units in earlier turns) but the one closest to Paris received no more than 250 (!). I see that my depots in England store a lot of supplies, but does not seem to ship them over to mainland Europe.

The one location that received the most last turn was the newly captured port of Dieppe that received and shipped out nearly 13000.

So, how can I start fix this?

[image]local://upfiles/53529/81E7C1E2ABD74D1B99A537E95DB9C1E6.jpg[/image]



Hoggorm -> RE: D-Day start campaign issues (11/3/2020 8:35:52 AM)

Situation

[image]local://upfiles/53529/08FD88B33D9E4B17A6C4E206DA6522BA.jpg[/image]



loki100 -> RE: D-Day start campaign issues (11/3/2020 8:49:00 AM)

There are a few quirks to be aware of ... and you have made a fundamental error

Errors

a) depots ship to a higher priority not to lower so a #4 can't ship to a #3
b) which is why so little crosses the channel
c) set the rail depots on the south coast to #0, keep Maidstone, Canterbury and Exeter at #2 (this will supply the local airfields)
d) Make sure the UK NSS are all at #0 (these produce supply to send on)
e) set your UK port depots to #1 (so they claim from the NSS)
f) set your French ports to #2, perhaps Le Havre to #3. Set your front line depots to #3 or #4 (choose carefully where the #4 goes)

Quirks

a) port capacity is very important, spend APs on priority repair. Remember that a TF in or off shore auto repairs a size 1 or 2 port next turn (it doesn't have to spend the turn there, just end up in that hex)
b) the other problem in France is you lack for rail cap - see my AAR vs GR where there is a useful wee map that shows where the rail cap is. So even once you have the ports etc functioning, most of your supply moves by truck

HQs

a) set most of your HQs to #2. The reason for this is it will do its best to meet the supply demand and that can mean your units shed their trucks in search of supply. Lack of trucks in units hits your MP and CV badly.
b) pick a few for priority #3 or #4, but don't overdo this
c) if a unit needs to refit due to high losses, send it well back to the rear - it'll get more replacements there and not strain your front line logistics

Also

a) don't forget air transport of supplies - aim at an airfield, this can make quite a difference in a small part of the map



Hoggorm -> RE: D-Day start campaign issues (11/3/2020 9:18:34 AM)

Thank you, Loki, for pointing out my fundamental error! I was not aware depots could not ship to lower numbers.

So, if I understand you correctly only a carefully selected few depots and units should have priority 4, all other 3 or less?

Is there a way to quickly set all, or a group of, depots to a given number? I've searched the CR, but have not been able to find this... It is somewhat time consuming changing every single depot.

Is it a good idea to prioritize both port and railyards? If I understand the system correctly railyards basically produce locomotives and cars for the trains, hence without a single railyard I will not have a single train transporting goods?

I do not understand what you try to tell me regarding the TFs. Should I move them into ports instead of leaving them at the landing sites?



loki100 -> RE: D-Day start campaign issues (11/3/2020 12:38:27 PM)

The number of depots and HQs at 3 or 4 is a bit feng shui to be honest. What you are looking for is to keep up both MP and CV in your key formations (if they have to use their trucks for supply you'll keep their combat power but not the mobility), if you do this for a couple of corps consistently then add another and so on. Red Lancer's 1 page guide has a useful ready reckoner but the system is non-linear so you can't just work from the demand side of the equation (my first degree was econometrics so I love all this sort of stuff [8D])

You can use the CR to bulk adjust but its hard to identify a viable set of criteria, so yeah its one by one.

Keep ports as low as possible. So in France the UK sending ports can be #1, the French receiving ports #2. An exception is a port right up at the front as you advance along the coast.

Yes about railyards, you get a small one in an invasion depot but that won't get you far. its worth doing a sort in the CR to see where the big ones are but its basically Paris+Brussels. This is not WiTE2 (where rail supply is the norm), you remain dependent on your trucks all game due to a lack of rail assets.

For the TF, at the end of the movement phase make sure that 1 is adjacent to every invasion hex where you want to maintain the depot/temp port (note this is not essential for the mulberry hexes0. During the turn they can sail around and their naval guns make all the difference in attacks along the coast.

If you capture a level 1 or 2 port then a TF offshore (or in the port) will automatically repair it for you. So you can get those smaller NE French ports up and running while you wait for the big prizes (like Le Havre) to repair.



GloriousRuse -> RE: D-Day start campaign issues (11/3/2020 7:43:48 PM)

As two more notes to to all of the above:

1) Did you build your mulberries? I don’t see any hexes with them, and they’re each a “permanent” port that doesn’t take over the shore supply attrition loss. They can help really pump in supplies while you’re still looking to capture and repair real ports.

2) Loki hit on it - abandoning your over the beach sites is a sure way to choke your ability to offload units and freight if done too early. Over the beach sites on a rail line are particularly valuable.



Hoggorm -> RE: D-Day start campaign issues (11/3/2020 9:10:18 PM)

GloriousRuse:

1 - Yes, they were built and I also noticed that they were gone now. I do not know why that has happened. Any suggestion?



Hoggorm -> RE: D-Day start campaign issues (11/3/2020 10:11:25 PM)

How can I deal with this?

How do I see the freight storage at the transport air base? Should I relocate the unit to another airfield?

[image]local://upfiles/53529/FAAACB22DAED4CADB21075E812F48DEB.jpg[/image]



loki100 -> RE: D-Day start campaign issues (11/3/2020 10:22:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hoggorm

How can I deal with this?

How do I see the freight storage at the transport air base? Should I relocate the unit to another airfield?

[image]local://upfiles/53529/FAAACB22DAED4CADB21075E812F48DEB.jpg[/image]


directly not much you can do. Best is to make sure your transport planes are at an airbase with a large high priority depot - this is a good place for a #3 or #4 priority depot in the UK. That will take freight to that airbase so its ready for your transports to move on



GloriousRuse -> RE: D-Day start campaign issues (11/3/2020 10:31:17 PM)

Each turn the Mulberries have a chance to fail based on weather. The worse the weather, the higher the chance of a failed mulberry. Though that shouldn't be an issue in June/July. I've never seen a mulberry fail when it had a TF nearby, but that may be raw coincidence.



Hoggorm -> RE: D-Day start campaign issues (11/4/2020 9:53:52 PM)

There were one turn wih rain over the Channel. I cant tell when they disappeared, but they are gone now.

Next question: Does it matter what HQ the rail repair units are attached to? Some are attached to Army, some Army Group and some to the SHAEF.



Hoggorm -> RE: D-Day start campaign issues (11/15/2020 11:02:34 AM)

For a few turns Etaples has been surrounded and the front line have been about 10 hexes away.

Now I attacked Etaples, but see that the three brigades that where present were able to rout out of the pocket an all 12 hexes behind their own lines. How is that at all possible and realistic?

[image]local://upfiles/53529/D75E5C3934BB48F689A1F4994435AFE4.jpg[/image]



loki100 -> RE: D-Day start campaign issues (11/15/2020 12:38:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hoggorm

There were one turn wih rain over the Channel. I cant tell when they disappeared, but they are gone now.

Next question: Does it matter what HQ the rail repair units are attached to? Some are attached to Army, some Army Group and some to the SHAEF.


this determines how far they go to repair, SHAEF is up to 90, army 15 (& if I recall army group 45). Keeping them at a lower level can be good for targetted repairs but they will ignore gaps outside this range. So a mix is probably the best solution.

Etaples - my guess is the sea zones were under your control (your naval interdiction 2 or more > axis value)? If so they can rout out on defeat.

Where they go to has always been a bit odd. The good thing is they will have shed a lot of men and equipment so won't be much use for a while



Hoggorm -> RE: D-Day start campaign issues (11/15/2020 12:47:00 PM)

Thank you Loki! I just found it somewhat strange that all those brigades were able to reach their own lines over such a large enemy (mine) controlled area.



loki100 -> RE: D-Day start campaign issues (11/15/2020 2:28:05 PM)

yeah the rout out of encirclement routines are sometimes a bit odd. I think its the legacy of the core design being WiTE where it was used to reflect the issue that units would be escaping even as the pocket closed (so to avoid the artificial time split that IGOUGO designs create).

Here the key is make sure the port is isolated, best is a TF just off shore that'll generate the interdiction you need (as well as helping with the attack). I find these escapes a regular issue in Italy as its a lot harder to gain full naval control in that phase



cfulbright -> RE: D-Day start campaign issues (11/15/2020 6:01:27 PM)

If you wanted them to surrender you should have put a naval TF unit in the hex West by Northwest the turn before the attack, then brought up the TF(s) the turn of the attack to provide additional artillery support.

My guess if you looked at the German unit at the start of the turn you attacked, it would show as NOT being out of supply or surrounded.

Cary



Hoggorm -> RE: D-Day start campaign issues (11/15/2020 9:13:13 PM)

I see.

My TF units were lost for some reason after a few turns. I do not know why really...

When considering a ground attack: Do you decide where to attack several turns before you plan to actually do the attack, and prepare from there? Or do you see each turn where the enemy is weakest, and attack there?

I have been doing the latter usually, but have come to think that this might be the wrong way to do it. When I plan an attack large enough to break the frontline and surround enemy divisions I just do not have enough strengt to punch through. The reason for this is that it appears as if I attack at the weaker points, I will usually only be able to push the enemy back a hex or two before my units run out of both CV and MP. I have of course division elsewhere, but they do not have the MP to reach the area and still be able to continue the fight. When I end my turn, and the next turn start I see of course the the Germans have reinforced their line heavily making the next turn even harder...

What is your strategy for a large scale attack?



cfulbright -> RE: D-Day start campaign issues (11/15/2020 9:26:15 PM)

On the TF's, if you leave them at sea for a long time they build up damage and eventually are removed from the board. I can't recall whether they come back in a few turns (or eight) or not.

For attacks I use both methods. If there's someplace I want to make a breakthrough I build up my forces there a turn or two before. The same if it's a heavily fortified hex. For major attacks I assign lots of armor, an engineer battalion, and some SP artillery, and also make sure the corps HQ has lots of artillery support units.

To extend a breakthrough I assign British, Canaadian, Polish, or Czech tank or armoured brigades to the divisions the turn before the attack. I make sure one or two divisions with the brigades attached either don't participate in the attack on the hex in question, then they advance into the victory hex and make an attack against what is probably a weaker unit. Then I convert one of the brigades to be an on-map unit and advance it forward one hex, then do the same for the second brigade.

You can do the same with the US cavalry groups or infantry, parachute, or mountain regiments, but they aren't as strong as the British TOE brigades, so after you move them forward you should assign a tank battalion to them to beef them up.

Cary



Hoggorm -> RE: D-Day start campaign issues (11/15/2020 9:43:06 PM)

I will have to look more into how that off-map/on-map unit conversion works. I`ve never tried it you see.

Do you attack at one hex only and force your way throught? Or do you try to attack at three hexes so that units going through wil not suffer from the penalty they get when moving close to enemy units? If you see what I mean?



cfulbright -> RE: D-Day start campaign issues (11/15/2020 10:18:23 PM)

It depends on how strong the Axis line is along multiple hexes. If it's got a strong solid line, I'll pick a single hex that I can get on three sides of, hammer it with air, attack it from the first and third side, then advance with the units in the second side, and have them attack forward, then convert and advance the attached multi-mode units, then attach some armor units to them. The Germans will batter themselves against those exposed units, usually losing because of Allied air and artillery support. Do that enough times in Normandy (or pick your invasion site), and it will unhinge the German line.

Cary



Hoggorm -> RE: D-Day start campaign issues (11/16/2020 8:42:57 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cfulbright

If it's got a strong solid line, I'll pick a single hex that I can get on three sides of, hammer it with air, attack it from the first and third side, then advance with the units in the second side, and have them attack forward, then convert and advance the attached multi-mode units, then attach some armor units to them.


Is attacking with 6 instead of 9 divisions enough then? I rarely have success with that, but you prepeare as you say for a couple of turns, hence have stronger divisions I guess?

Your air hammering of the unit, is that on that specific hex only, or do you interdict behind the front line as well?

What type of Aircraft do you use when attacking units?



Hoggorm -> RE: D-Day start campaign issues (11/16/2020 12:45:07 PM)

I have 9th US ID attached to VII US Corps. The corps HQ does have three Field Artillery Battalions attached, but neither can be attached to the ID. Why is that?



cfulbright -> RE: D-Day start campaign issues (11/16/2020 1:51:37 PM)

I do ground attack/Unit of the hex with the FB's using 1000lb bombs, and ground attack/interdict of the hex with the medium bombers, also using 1000lb bombs.

Cary



cfulbright -> RE: D-Day start campaign issues (11/16/2020 1:52:38 PM)

FA bns only attach to HQ's. You want at least six FA bns attached to the Corps HQ of the attacking units.

Cary



Hoggorm -> RE: D-Day start campaign issues (11/16/2020 8:44:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cfulbright

I do ground attack/Unit of the hex with the FB's using 1000lb bombs, and ground attack/interdict of the hex with the medium bombers, also using 1000lb bombs.

Cary


I would imagine FB would be better at interdiction and LB better against static units? But I see you do the opposite? Why is that?


quote:

ORIGINAL: cfulbright

FA bns only attach to HQ's. You want at least six FA bns attached to the Corps HQ of the attacking units.

Cary


I understand!

Now there are only three V-Weapon factories/launch sites undamaged, but I still only get one (!) V-Weapon VP. Do you know why? I can understand that my recon may not be exact, but that bad..?

[image]local://upfiles/53529/3F7084EADD794BBC93191D50B9DF66E6.jpg[/image]



cfulbright -> RE: D-Day start campaign issues (11/16/2020 9:26:38 PM)

quote:

I would imagine FB would be better at interdiction and LB better against static units? But I see you do the opposite? Why is that?

1) I may be a minority of one on this forum, but I believe in ground attacking units rather than interdiction. The FB's get major damage doing that, and also some interdiction results, so that's why I do that. When I've tried using medium bombers for ground attack/units, it doesn't kill alot, so I use them for interdiction hoping that has some effect.

quote:

Now there are only three V-Weapon factories/launch sites undamaged, but I still only get one (!) V-Weapon VP. Do you know why? I can understand that my recon may not be exact, but that bad..?

You're misreading that victory point chart. If you're the Allies, those are Negative VP's. So if you're only seeing one point per turn, that's a good thing. Hit "v" for the Victory Point screen, and you're see negative numbers next to the V-Weapons line.

Cary



Hoggorm -> RE: D-Day start campaign issues (11/17/2020 4:06:32 PM)

Ah, that is good to know! I was indeed misreading the victory point chart!



Hoggorm -> RE: D-Day start campaign issues (11/17/2020 5:21:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cfulbright

To extend a breakthrough I assign British, Canaadian, Polish, or Czech tank or armoured brigades to the divisions the turn before the attack. I make sure one or two divisions with the brigades attached either don't participate in the attack on the hex in question, then they advance into the victory hex and make an attack against what is probably a weaker unit. Then I convert one of the brigades to be an on-map unit and advance it forward one hex, then do the same for the second brigade.


I tried this with 3rd US Armoured Division. It had a Armour Brigade attached so moving into an enemy hex I selected the Brigade and pressed "convert". After clicking Yes a couple of times it did not appear on the map though...

What is the correct steps to take?



cfulbright -> RE: D-Day start campaign issues (11/17/2020 9:10:37 PM)

Were there three units in the hex when you clicked convert? If so, there's no room for the converted unit to appear and the conversion fails.

Cary



Hoggorm -> RE: D-Day start campaign issues (11/17/2020 9:23:47 PM)

No, there where only the 3rd AD. I Quicksaved before the test, but when I read the manual it appears as if those converted units will appear at the Corps HQ location, and not at the Division location. Could this be what happened?



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