Best ideology/government type? (Full Version)

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Keifre -> Best ideology/government type? (12/4/2020 7:39:49 AM)

What government, culture, ideology do you use (1 from each row combined), and why? Ex: Autocracy, enforcement, fist.

Democracy, Autocracy, Meritocracy

Enforcement, Commerce, Government

Fist, Mind, Heart



Twotribes -> RE: Best ideology/government type? (12/4/2020 7:51:23 AM)

I almost always use Mind, the other 2 depend. I like Government and autocracy mostly, but occasionally do meritocracy and commerce.



Maerchen -> RE: Best ideology/government type? (12/4/2020 8:09:58 AM)

My typical start is meritocracy - commerce - mind. Good leaders, good income, good research.

The events that support these profiles are coming up often, but can be tricky. Like in rebellion events oratory rolls on your govs. I often disregard the city effects as I want the +4 meritocracy more than I bother about the unrest.




Keifre -> RE: Best ideology/government type? (12/4/2020 8:11:19 AM)

What are your reasons behind choosing these instead of something like democracy?



Maerchen -> RE: Best ideology/government type? (12/4/2020 8:38:47 AM)

Meritocracy gives you a Accomplished envoys, an early on diplomacy bonus and access to Recruit talent, which a capable interior director can use to hire cap IV and V guys. I won the last three games and will win my current one due to that. I wrote an AAR about it here https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4918997

In my current game I went in naked and as usual with Supreme Command Council alone and after - threat assesment first - checking my neighbors in the strat map screen, seeing I am sourrounded by 4 minors and monsters before I even moved my units, I opened up foreign affairs council at first and for the first time. Containing the alien fauna at moving in to the minors, I opened up contact via Send Spy and made peace with three, concentrating on only one to conquer. In turn 20, all are vassals via Offer Protection, in turn 34, I now have eight zones but conquered only two by military but six via Unification. My major enemy is a republic which is now sharing its superior military research with me. [:)]

When in the Profiles window, you can mouseover the profiles and their bonuses they give at each stage.




Keifre -> RE: Best ideology/government type? (12/4/2020 9:05:44 AM)

Sounds like diplomacy and leader stats are stronger than just bulldozing everything with fist/autocracy.



Shards -> RE: Best ideology/government type? (12/4/2020 12:59:12 PM)

I'm a relatively peace-loving, research focussed 4X'er, so Democracy/Commerce/Mind is my default pick

I've also made a Socialist idyll with Meritocracy/Government/Heart though and also tried out a full on attack focussed Autocracy/Enforcement/Fist

They all have their merits and I've often moved between ideologies as my games have progressed



Destragon -> RE: Best ideology/government type? (12/4/2020 2:13:01 PM)

I've always wondered if it's maybe best to go wide on your regime profile. Like, you get the first and second feat on every profile and then also 3 of the third tier feats of your choice. That way you have more feats in total than you would have if you went for the full 90 in each of the three profiles, but it will probably also be harder to keep the different profile values on a balanced level.



Shards -> RE: Best ideology/government type? (12/4/2020 2:32:22 PM)

Yes, I suspect that is Elite level play. Way beyond my meagre skills :D



Dampfnudel -> RE: Best ideology/government type? (12/4/2020 3:30:21 PM)

What I believe is the strongest combo:
Government. All its passive perks are insane good. As the economy in the game is designed by a communist fetishist, it is OP to buff public assets. Getting twice as many minerals/oil/IC as your neighbor is winning the game. Edit: Seems to be nerfed in 1.04
Meritocracy: The first perk of meritocracy allows you to hire talented guys. And later there is +35 combat role perk
Fist. It gives 2 combat buffs (+25 + 40) and corps de esprit gives the strongest strategem.

50/50/50 aproachs gives you 9 different profile perks. Absolut viable, but difficult to mantain.

Some profile Boni are useless:
Democracy. QoL bonus of democracy has no effect / is not implemented yet.
Meritocracy: food&credits/pop bonus has no effect / is not implemented yet.
Commerce: commerce bonus is useless. It works in theory, but has no use in actual games.



Maerchen -> RE: Best ideology/government type? (12/4/2020 3:32:08 PM)

Destragon, last game I played I had that 80 mind that is needed for my happy faction to deliver Breakthrough Now!, 5PP and you get a free tech discovery.

I will probably never ever get that again, but it is so satisfying seeing your empire crush everything with superior tech. I always went tall in my profiles. Maybe I will try out the wide approach, but I think you need some peaceful existence and time to make it viable.



Soar_Slitherine -> RE: Best ideology/government type? (12/4/2020 4:08:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dampfnudel

What I believe is the strongest combo:
Government. All its passive perks are insane good. As the economy in the game is designed by a communist fetishist, it is OP to buff public assets. Getting twice as many minerals/oil/IC as your neighbor is winning the game.

While the passives from Government are certainly strong, the Public Industrial Bonus only doubles the production of Industry, Heavy Industry and High-Tech Industry, not every public asset.



Vic -> RE: Best ideology/government type? (12/4/2020 5:06:29 PM)

Interesting analysis going on here. Making notes!



Locarnus -> RE: Best ideology/government type? (12/4/2020 5:29:09 PM)

Depends on your starting options.

If you start without any council, 1st level meritocracy is overpowered, because you need a lot of capable leaders fast.

If you start with all councils, 1st level meritocracy is underpowered, since rearranging the cabinet can be prohibitively expensive with a full cabinet. Because for some strange reason, every competent cabinet member hates it when leaders who are incompetent at their current job are transferred to a "lesser job" that better fits their abilities. Even though that makes room for one of the competent leaders faction members to now take over the higher job.



Maerchen -> RE: Best ideology/government type? (12/4/2020 8:51:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Locarnus

Depends on your starting options.

If you start without any council, 1st level meritocracy is overpowered, because you need a lot of capable leaders fast.

If you start with all councils, 1st level meritocracy is underpowered, since rearranging the cabinet can be prohibitively expensive with a full cabinet. Because for some strange reason, every competent cabinet member hates it when leaders who are incompetent at their current job are transferred to a "lesser job" that better fits their abilities. Even though that makes room for one of the competent leaders faction members to now take over the higher job.



That is the one reason I find a naked start easier than 4 or full council. In my AAR (check there), I started with interior first. That gave me, together with meritocracy supermen in the long run and I was able to throw governors of unified zones right out of the window via bronze retirement ASAP if they were without potential.

I recently became an admirer of interior bureaucracy because of that. Ever seen a guy with 77 int and Cap IV?

Anyway, I do not think the lvl 1 profile boon of meritocracy is overpowered. For recruit Talent you need to invest 20PP, which is a lot until mid-end game stage. And rng can still throw cap I int 14 guys at you.

Vic, what is the mechanic behind recruit Talent?



Maerchen -> RE: Best ideology/government type? (12/4/2020 9:12:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Keifre

Sounds like diplomacy and leader stats are stronger than just bulldozing everything with fist/autocracy.


That. Depends.

If you are surrounded by "XY Territory", that will be slavers, nomads, arachnids, all without a city. If you are surrounded by "XY Pax/Republic/etc" they are farmers or raiders with a city. So threat assessment before moving on turn one is key. I use the strat map a lot.

So if I am in central arachnotopia, I sure would not try to use diplomacy. I would stick to my profiles, but use a different first council, like model or mil r&D.



Philo32b -> RE: Best ideology/government type? (12/4/2020 9:59:03 PM)

I like to pick the ideology and government types based on the role play style I want to try out. But I'm loving these deep dives into the pros and cons of each!



Twotribes -> RE: Best ideology/government type? (12/4/2020 10:25:45 PM)

I have taken to full black out. So until I have spies I can not see what is around me.



Dampfnudel -> RE: Best ideology/government type? (12/5/2020 9:39:28 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Soar_Slitherine


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dampfnudel

What I believe is the strongest combo:
Government. All its passive perks are insane good. As the economy in the game is designed by a communist fetishist, it is OP to buff public assets. Getting twice as many minerals/oil/IC as your neighbor is winning the game.

While the passives from Government are certainly strong, the Public Industrial Bonus only doubles the production of Industry, Heavy Industry and High-Tech Industry, not every public asset.


It seems they patched it. In my last government game, it buffed all public economy. Which was insane OP as it meant twice as good deep core mines. I checked the Changelog and the nerf hammer hit in 1.04.



Maerchen -> RE: Best ideology/government type? (12/5/2020 10:11:12 AM)

Your strat map will at least show you the names of the territories, so you can take an educated guess even if you start all black out. I do start all black out, too.




Destragon -> RE: Best ideology/government type? (12/5/2020 12:18:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dampfnudel

It seems they patched it. In my last government game, it buffed all public economy. Which was insane OP as it meant twice as good deep core mines. I checked the Changelog and the nerf hammer hit in 1.04.

I think it's always only applied to the industry assets and the change in 1.04 was just to make the description more clear? Not 100% sure.



mroyer -> RE: Best ideology/government type? (12/5/2020 12:44:27 PM)

On a whim, for my current game I am trying out a libertarian, minimalist approach - small government, maximized privatization with profile meritocracy-commerse-mind. I have not raised taxes; indeed I tried but failed to lower taxes. Population and worker happiness are through the roof, but as of round 23 I am in last place in the game victory-point wise. I don't think I will be able to parley the strong private economy into a workable global strategy.

I was also hampered by a poor starting location (no other nearby regimes and few resources) and a lowish-quality leadership to boot. So, I'm not sure how much those are affecting the result in addition to my less-than-expert play. But, it's very interesting and a completely different experience from my last game where public spending ruled the day.

-Mark R.



eddieballgame -> RE: Best ideology/government type? (12/5/2020 2:49:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dampfnudel
Some profile Boni are useless:
Democracy. QoL bonus of democracy has no effect / is not implemented yet.
Meritocracy: food&credits/pop bonus has no effect / is not implemented yet.
Commerce: commerce bonus is useless. It works in theory, but has no use in actual games.


Where are you getting this info from?



Dampfnudel -> RE: Best ideology/government type? (12/8/2020 6:07:33 PM)

In my recent game, I learned to love democracy.
The political bonus means having 3x times as much PP as usual. I can not spam so many stratagems as I have pp. Delicious.

I think an issue is that Boni is all concentrated in a single profile and stack so high. " of the political boni should be replaced by other modifiers, so it doesn't stack that high.



Destragon -> RE: Best ideology/government type? (12/9/2020 12:27:45 AM)

I never really paid that much attention to what faction stratagems are unlocked by the regime profile, because the profile management screen doesn't mention them, but damn, there are some really powerful ones hidden in some regime feats that I never actually came across yet.



Maerchen -> RE: Best ideology/government type? (12/9/2020 12:49:53 AM)

Mind 80+ and a happy mind++ faction gives you Breakthrough now!

A nation stratagem, for 5 PP you get a new tech discovered. Yummy.



arvcran2 -> RE: Best ideology/government type? (7/18/2021 11:40:10 PM)

I have had an interior council director since turn 3 with accomplished envoys soon after, it is turn 33 and I have yet to receive a 'Recruit Talent' card.
My IC has 70 as suitability and also has an advisor attached.

What is going on? Am I missing something?



Soar_Slitherine -> RE: Best ideology/government type? (7/19/2021 1:51:38 AM)

Could just be bad luck. You can check the exact values involved in generating stratagems under Reports -> Overviews -> Stratagem Generation. Having more of a card already in stock reduces its weighting for stratagem generation, so having more of the other cards in the same category increases Recruit Talent's chance to appear.



arvcran2 -> RE: Best ideology/government type? (7/19/2021 2:52:31 AM)

On turn 40

[image]local://upfiles/75928/351F4204C23A486BBD39558FF68326D6.jpg[/image]



Maerchen -> RE: Best ideology/government type? (7/19/2021 6:31:35 AM)

Please post your priority settings if your interior council, as well as the Organisation report for assessment.

Is human resources prioritised? How many BP do you pump into it?

Here is a guide I made, in the Optimizing research Chapter you can see my preferred IC priority settings.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2314732568



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