RE: Good news Sakhalin fell today (Full Version)

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RangerJoe -> RE: Good news Sakhalin fell today (2/21/2021 10:39:10 PM)

That reminds me of Major Howard at the Pegasus Bridge. "Hold until relieved, hold until relieved."

Hopefully, at that time you will be able to do something with the Americans in the Pacific.

Oh well, the previous commanders really screwed things up.

What did Mr Hardy say? "Another fine mess you've gotten me into!"



Andy Mac -> RE: Good news Sakhalin fell today (2/21/2021 10:43:23 PM)

In the north spread over my 3 armies I have 7 Inf Divs, 1 Mountain Divs, 2 Motor Rifle Div, 1 NKVD Div and 2 Tank Divs

Over the next year I get 7 more Rifle Divs in the north
I get round out Artillery units for about 4 other Rifle Bdes converting them to Divs

So I go from 11 Divs (2 Armour) to 22 Divs (2 Armour) in the North AND I get two reconstituded Divs so I will have 24 Soviet Divisions all with the excellent Soviet Arty and far superior squad firepower

I will have a crap air force but lets be clear if he doesnt take the north in next 6 months he is toast because I WILL break into Manchuria and the second i do so I can use RAF and USAAF aircraft to support my land offensive

Right now 1 Japanese Div broadly = 1 Soviet Div - In 6 weeks that changes and 2 Japanese Divs are 'maybe' as good as 1 Soviet Div




Andy Mac -> RE: Good news Sakhalin fell today (2/21/2021 10:44:50 PM)

US in pacific is borked I have zero carriers it will be late 43 early 44 before I can even contemplate an Amphib assault this is going to be War in the Land Mass of Asia for the next 18 months



Andy Mac -> RE: Good news Sakhalin fell today (2/22/2021 11:18:54 AM)

OK its getting interesting up north and to quote a famous military thinker...'dont panic captain mannering'

[image]local://upfiles/11987/184AA37CFFC24562B189F454B1F370C3.jpg[/image]



Andy Mac -> RE: Good news Sakhalin fell today (2/22/2021 11:24:37 AM)

On the Chita Front the river crossing to th south were a feint enought o keep me honest but a feint instead he is going round the back circling Chita to the north and trying to envelop my position - only 2 Divs are in the Chita hex itself facing off against 3 of mine behind lvl 6 forts

In the North at the road junction I have another 1 Div plus Tank Bde facing off v a japanese Div - BUT my recon says a major force is marching to that hex from below Chita - if he takes that hex off of me Chita is cut off.

So att his point the river line is of limited use to me so I am going to step back from the river and wheel north onto the main road this has a number of advantages

1. My Armoured reserve can move fast to counter any threats as they arise.
2. Avoids a surprise shock attack rout if he sneaks a mahor force up tot he river line undetected
3. Secures my LOC
4. Reduces the numbers of Hexes I need to protect



Andy Mac -> RE: Good news Sakhalin fell today (2/22/2021 11:28:05 AM)

At Ulan Bator I am picking up major movement into the hex next to Ulan Bator again to get into my flank and threaten the road.

Once again with interior lines I can adjust quicker than he can I think but its the same problem I only have so many Divisions and I am dancing to his tune as he tries to manouver around Fortress Ulan Bator and Fortress Chita

All he needs to do is get something past me once and I will be trapped.

BUT I dont want to give up either position without a fight because this has to be hurting him operating at the end of a logistics route.

Andy



Andy Mac -> RE: Good news Sakhalin fell today (2/22/2021 11:30:37 AM)

Whilst I have a lot of strength in 6 months right now my 3 Armies are weaker than his attacking force and only the interior lines and my excellent recon assets are keeping me on balance



Andy Mac -> RE: Good news Sakhalin fell today (2/22/2021 11:35:24 AM)

The problem is if I pull back my second defensive line is simply to vulnerable - even with forts I think the base in black in range of an air force based at ulan Bator is simply too easy to bounce me out

So the Chita/Ulan Bator line while not stand or die territory would be nice if I could hold on

[image]local://upfiles/11987/67748496F84E4B4C91B20F491C2A804E.jpg[/image]



Evoken -> RE: Good news Sakhalin fell today (2/22/2021 12:18:37 PM)

Wouldnt it make sense to pull back defensive line to West of Irkuts ? Its WR terrain gives you x3 bonus , almost untouchable by enemy airfoce and shortens the defensive live , also forts your troops build cant be destroyed by enemy attacks



Andy Mac -> RE: Good news Sakhalin fell today (2/22/2021 12:26:40 PM)

But also makes my counter attacks much harder



Andy Mac -> RE: Good news Sakhalin fell today (2/22/2021 12:53:33 PM)

Basically if I have to pull back that far i class this as a defeat it means when the time comes to go forward I will need to grind forward a single axis of attack taking horrendous casualties whereas if I can hold on where i am its me that will be manouvering around him in 9 months



Andy Mac -> RE: Good news Sakhalin fell today (2/22/2021 12:54:56 PM)

As you say with 4 or 5 Divs and arty dug in that hex west of Irkutsk is to all intents impregnable but I would prefer not to get pushed back that far



Andy Mac -> RE: Good news Sakhalin fell today (2/22/2021 2:17:26 PM)

Para drop in my rear annoying the garrison had only just left and the replacement was 3 days away



Andy Mac -> RE: Good news Sakhalin fell today (2/22/2021 3:08:02 PM)

I am actually relatively irritated by the par drop a company of japanese paras took a base when the garrison left for the front 2 days ago and the replacement garrison was 3 days away - its not crucial but it is annoying

I have a Cav Div en route and a few other assets heading that way anyway so I will retake it fact and eliminate 100 japanese paratroopers (or more if he reinforces !!)



Andy Mac -> RE: Good news Sakhalin fell today (2/23/2021 9:18:37 AM)

OK Ulan Bator is flanked in strength both North and South - my road remains secure for now but the pressure is building I dont want to step back but I may have to

I am sending some of the Arty back to the next line as its too valuable to risk getting retreated

My Divisions are remaining in Ulan Bator as is my AA to hold the linea little longer and give the Arty a good head start.

At Chita I can hold on as I have blocked the flanking movements but I really need 2 - 3 more Divs on the Ulan Bator front and my inability to launch even local counterattacks is stopping me.

Basically I can hold Chita or I can hold Ulan Bator holding both in the face of massive enemy armies is proving challenging

My fronts are basically too far apart to be mutually supportinve and my air force is just too weak in fighters to be effective.

The sensible thing is to step back now but it really limits my options later

I am facing 250,000 men at Ulan Bator how he is supplying them all is interesting



Andy Mac -> RE: Good news Sakhalin fell today (2/23/2021 9:22:24 AM)

He has equivalent to an Armoured Bde on my north flank and what looks like an entire Japanese Army on the Southern Flank (100k+ troops)

Another 120k are the head of the bull holding my main forces in place at Ulan Bator.

I think he has me this time will need to pull back unfortunately



Andy Mac -> RE: Good news Sakhalin fell today (2/23/2021 1:01:34 PM)

Disasterous day

I sent in the Soviet AF all 70+xp A2A and they got destroyed my fighters even the Mig 3 are simply not able to fight it out with Tojo's

japanese forces defeated and retreated a Full Soviet Div plus 3 Tank Bdes on the southern horn of his bull - I am now flanked to the North and South in strength and have no choice I need to pull back

If I stand and fight he will cut me off bypass and then force me out of the Chita position so I have made the hard choice to leave while I can.

Artillery is well on the way already as are most of the engineers so only AA and Infantry are left.

I am confident I can pull back ahead of the oncoming horde - I will re evaluate my ability to hold this position and Chita over the next few days - it may be that despite holding easily I may need to pull back to Ulan Ude line just to put my three armies in mutual support.

It just shows what good play can achieve after his initial assault on Ulan Bator he decided to probe the flanks and I simply dont have the troops to stop the sheer numbers of Japanese without air superiority and my air force has been sadly lacking

So well done to Desertwolf my initial check of his advance bought me 8 weeks but he has achieved what I assume is a major objective given the resources committed to it
Andy



Bif1961 -> RE: Good news Sakhalin fell today (2/23/2021 5:02:13 PM)

In the movie "The Longest Day," Richard Todd played Major Howard, in an irony Richard Todd was actually a paratrooper and he and his unit was the unit that relieved Major Howard's unit. So in one of those rare twists of fate he played the man he knew and didn't have to act as a paratrooper at the Pegasus Bridge because he was actually there. As of 4 Feb 2021 Richard Todd's Red devil Paratrooper Beret will be offered for auction by his estate and they hope to fetch 5,000 pounds. Richard Todd died in 2009 at the age of 90 and the Beret was recently found amongst some of his over looked belongings.



Andy Mac -> RE: Good news Sakhalin fell today (2/23/2021 9:04:08 PM)

Thanks Bif



Andy Mac -> RE: Good news Sakhalin fell today (2/23/2021 9:10:34 PM)

I have a very difficult decision to make

My air force is useless (in Russia)

I can stop him at Chita but eventually he is going to flank me again and I need to get my 3 armies back into mutual support range.

So I am going to pull back to the Ulan Ude line and have my armies deploy in echelon covering the 5 hexes from Ulan Ude to Kryanks it puts the river at my back which I dont like because if he pushes me out then I need to be watch a follow up shock attack when he crosses the river.

Its not a great defensive line for 11 Divs to cover 200 miles of front but it gives me so many options to break out later on if required.

The real temptation is to just put the stopper in the bottle and pull back to the line between the mountains and lake Baikal - 92 miles across I can easily hold that line.



Andy Mac -> RE: Good news Sakhalin fell today (2/23/2021 11:19:20 PM)

OK I am going to try and dig in on the more exposed line

2nd Red Banner Army with 36th and 57th Motor Rifle Divs and 61st and 111th Tank Divs will be my mailed fist reserve supported by 7 Tank and Armoured Car Bdes it will also cover the centre section south of Kyaktah

17th Army with 103rd, 12th 210th Rifle Divs, 51st Cavalry Div and 39th 17th 226th, 227th Rifle Bdes will hold the West Flank centred on Kyaktah with the Cavalry and a Rifle Bde holding the mountains to the north and a larger covering force to the South a couple of Bde covering the Northern mountains

36th Army with 68th Mountain, 3rd 35th, 94th and 209th Rifle Divs will hold Ulan Ude and Petrovsky

The newly re constituting 79th Rifle Div, 2 Mongol Cav Divs and 2nd Rifle Bde also reconstituting will as they reach 80% TOE be rotated into the line

If the Japanese destroy 101st Rifle DIv and the three cutoff Rifle Bdes eventually these will also be reconstituted as a reserve.



Andy Mac -> RE: Good news Sakhalin fell today (2/24/2021 2:30:25 PM)

Interesting turn as my forces stepped back from Chita I tried an attack on the 2 Divs on my LOC had 3,000 AV backed by Arty and Air and plenty of supply his 2 Divs of 800 AV beat me easily despite 4:1 AV advantage

A bit irritating but probably achieved the objective which was to make him wary of following too closely whilst the next phase of my plan takes shape.




GetAssista -> RE: Good news Sakhalin fell today (2/24/2021 2:48:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac
Interesting turn as my forces stepped back from Chita I tried an attack on the 2 Divs on my LOC had 3,000 AV backed by Arty and Air and plenty of supply his 2 Divs of 800 AV beat me easily despite 4:1 AV advantage


It is x3 terrain. 2 divisions would have around 800-900 AV if they did not take part in heavy fighting, so you are looking at 2400-2700 adjusted AV with not a lot of potential to reduce it via artillery barrage (again, terrain). There was not much hope for you to get 2:1 in this situation on the first try, cause defenders rarely get AV maluses in a favourable terrain and in supply.

Successive attacks would erode his AV and thus bring adjusted AV down but do you really need it? I suppose your aim should be to make him get a bloody nose over your strong positions not the other way around



Andy Mac -> RE: Good news Sakhalin fell today (2/24/2021 3:41:04 PM)

Agreed but it was worth a go not hanging around to try again

I have never played with the Soviets before a few lessons I have learned tactically

Bombers are actually pretty good
Fighters are terrible - I suspect the fighters would be good against 1st Gen Japanese Fighters but v 2nd gen not so much.
AA is brilliant when massed
Arty on open ground is fearsome
Soviet Inf Divs are pretty good
Tank Bdes are vulnerable to air and ground attacks

Strategically
I think I have mishandled the campaign not to the extent its a disaster but I fell into a few traps of following my own plan and not reacting enough to his - not sure if I am being over critical but for example I really underestimated the strength committed to the North and the extent he pushed me there has surprised me



Andy Mac -> Army Group South (2/25/2021 1:19:26 PM)

Status of Army Group South

Voroshilev lvl 6 Forts
Vladivostock lvl 9 Forts

Supply Status 800,000

1st Red Banner Army 4 Rifle Divs, 3 Rifle Bdes
15th Army 13 Rifle Bdes
25th Army 2 Rifle Divs and 7 Rifle Bdes

Supported by 35 Artillery Regts and many AA Bns !!!!

All 100% prepped for Voroshilev.....

So 7000 AV with a fearsome arty train plenty of supplies and inf sqads that upgrade to double the firepower in January.

This to me is the danger in attacking Russia - Vladivostok i to all intents and purposes impregnable
Its all very quiet in the south



Andy Mac -> RE: Army Group South (2/25/2021 1:20:23 PM)

He hasnt even nibbled at my perimeter fortresses



Andy Mac -> RE: Army Group South (2/25/2021 2:11:42 PM)

I am going to feint towards the northern border of the southern pocket no intention of attacking be see if he moves forces in response



Andy Mac -> RE: Army Group North (2/25/2021 2:29:10 PM)

In the north I have c 7,000 AV and in 4 weeks they get massively stronger

2nd Red Banner Army with 36th and 57th Motor Rifle Divs and 61st and 111th Tank Divs will be my mailed fist reserve supported by 7 Tank and Armoured Car Bdes

17th Army with 103rd, 12th 210th Rifle Divs, 51st Cavalry Div and 39th 17th 226th, 227th Rifle Bdes

36th Army with 68th Mountain, 3rd 35th, 94th and 209th Rifle Divs

The newly re constituting 79th Rifle Div, 2 Mongol Cav Divs and 2nd Rifle Bde also reconstituting will as they reach 80% TOE be rotated into the line

101st Rifle Div and the three cutoff Rifle Bdes eventually these will also be reconstituted as a reserve.

Over the next year I get 7 more Rifle Divs in the north
I get round out Artillery units for about 4 other Rifle Bdes converting them to Divs

And I will have 35th Army with 3 re constituting Divs in the north from the southern Army Group in 5 ish months

My best guess is 7 months before I will be ready to knock him back in the North



Andy Mac -> Disaster in the North (2/25/2021 8:25:59 PM)

Last couple of turns have been tough not going to lie

My last 2 Carriers were transiting between Aden heading to Mombasa on map for one turn behind Socotra where I have extensive search assets working this time... and a sub screen and who pops up at 2 hex range full KB and sinks em both my guys never had a chance and did no damage

next day a large element of the rearguard was retreated on the road back from Ulan Bator - the incessant japanese air attacks slowed me down just long enough for the Japanese Army to catch me and force a retreat and will probably do so again in a day or so so those Divs will either surrender or be totally wrecked

This puts a totally different complexion on the northern situation - I have no choice but to bug out back towards the Irkutsk Road and dig in with everything I have - not really sure what to say except really dissapointing couple of days



Andy Mac -> RE: Disaster in the North (2/25/2021 9:11:39 PM)

My plan for Army Group North may be in a spot of bother if I get retreated again and I suspect I will

I now need to get probably 6,000 AV dug in on the road and use the other 1,000 to hold the mountains all air needs to pull back apart from recon and strong LOC troops allocated basically concentrate 2.5 of my three armies in one hex in bad terrain and make him take it off me that hard way - can he do that probably not BUT what I really wanted to avoid was having to attack myself in that bad terrain in 6 or 7 months

So the plan now unfortunately is to wait for my Inf Squad upgrade and the destroyed troops to arrive and in 5 1/2 months I get the 25th Army that I disbanded in Vladivostock back so 3 Inf Divs 2 Arty Bdes and 2 Motorised Bdes plus the base forces I disbanded laughingly to support my AF in the north fat lot of use thats been

I also get round out units for the 4 Inf Bdes turning them into Divs and the destroyed units in 20 - 30 days respawned so maybe a total force in Divs of 25 Divisions

I will have a powerfull force but I could easily wreck it getting through the bad terrain

Andy




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