RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? (Full Version)

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SilverCitadel -> RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? (2/2/2021 6:30:32 AM)

I will miss orbiting planets if it proves too much work for the team (as erik was quoted in the FAQ as taking vast amount of work) or too cpu intensive. All listed features are nice but I personally would prioritize strengthening what makes Distant worlds "strong" or unique which I think is it's "living" economy, immersion (impression of a "living galaxy) , and logistics. Excluding orbiting planets I would like (again all these features are nice just listing personal priority from highest 1 to lowest 6);

1: Processed and manufactured resources
(or just an expansion on the resource system, heck maybe tack on to that dyson spheres, planet/ star busters to harvest a new exclusive resource found only found at a recent supernova or planet collapsing, option to turn on limited resources, option to turn on planet quality deterioration as you mine it including colonies so environmental tech is more important. Oh and lastly maybe making a multi tiered resource system might even make trading even better and now there are several ways to make a trading empire, instead of being lucky at starting position or blobbing into special resources, NOW if you don't fit into the first two options you can just research tech and facilities that would allow to make / process exclusive or rare resources. or maybe there are resources that prohibitively expensive to gather / process (like blowing up stars or planets))

2: Implementation of jump gates
(idk what that would entail but I hope while adding jump gates they slightly expand on hyper deny options or mechanics and maybe add in bacon's mod gravity well idea, or maybe take some ideas from AI fleet command for this one, just make logistics and travel more interesting and more thought into it on top of what they are doing with "space geography" )

3: playable pirates
(never played pirates in all my time with DW:U but from my impression many people enjoyed playing pirates and you get to play a different sort of "perspective" in the "living" galaxy)

4: more playable factions
(not much more to say, just more variations on playing to your strengths or play styles. maybe while adding new playable races they expand on internal politics or managing like guilds , companies policies, and caste system? There was a mod in DW:U that expanded race character system)

5: development of ground assault mechanics
(I wouldn't consider combat to be something that draws many DW:U (or DW) players from my impressions or a strong aspect of the game and if I really wanted to play a tactical game I would just play a ... tactical combat game like Xcom: enemy unknown or
several RTS games I play or Dota 2. but if you make combat more like an RTS then Sign me up.)

6: multiplayer
(would be nice but I assume it would take a large amount of resources not to mention possible multiplayer bugs patching from a small studio that could go into refining the game's strengths or expanding on some of its weaknesses instead. I have no friends that play PC games so this feature would be nice but isn't a top priority in my opinion.)

Maybe an expansion on exploration system or just more stuff to find to end the galaxy or improve your empire would be nice or even wormhole or gates that send your exploration ship to a different galaxy (AI war fleet command, one of the expansions does this sorta)



Miletkir -> RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? (2/2/2021 8:34:23 AM)

Results at 65 votes:

[img]https://i.imgur.com/8U4tsrWl.png[/img]

Now I can say I voted for jump gates [:D] Silly me.



Jorgen_CAB -> RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? (2/2/2021 8:43:58 AM)

Depending on what we see in the release of the game the one thing I would like to see in some future expansion is more fleshed out diplomacy. Dilpomacy have always been relatively bare bones in most 4x games and I presume it will be in DW2 as well at launch.

I would like to see empires being able to form unilateral agreements and alliances between multiple races. Races should be able to form coalitions against particular threats even if sometimes temporary through just pragmatic reasons.

In my opinion diplomacy and relations between empires often get a backseat in these types of games when they should be a pretty important part to be more fleshed out.


I saw nothing about this in the poll which is a bit sad, this is way more important than most of the stuff in there in my opinion.



Hyperion1 -> RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? (2/2/2021 8:57:18 AM)

I voted multiplayer, but really for me all things are important.



Miletkir -> RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? (2/2/2021 9:12:38 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorgen_CAB

Depending on what we see in the release of the game the one thing I would like to see in some future expansion is more fleshed out diplomacy. Dilpomacy have always been relatively bare bones in most 4x games and I presume it will be in DW2 as well at launch.

I would like to see empires being able to form unilateral agreements and alliances between multiple races. Races should be able to form coalitions against particular threats even if sometimes temporary through just pragmatic reasons.

In my opinion diplomacy and relations between empires often get a backseat in these types of games when they should be a pretty important part to be more fleshed out.


I saw nothing about this in the poll which is a bit sad, this is way more important than most of the stuff in there in my opinion.


I also give a lot of importance to diplomacy and character-mediated gameplay in general but, to be fair, the extent of changes on diplomacy in DW2 is still a bit of an unknown (Erik said things here and there that make me think it is already a lot more fleshed out than in DW1), so what an expansion on this topic would be is still unclear at this point.



LordMM -> RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? (2/2/2021 10:39:36 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Miletkir


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorgen_CAB

Depending on what we see in the release of the game the one thing I would like to see in some future expansion is more fleshed out diplomacy. Dilpomacy have always been relatively bare bones in most 4x games and I presume it will be in DW2 as well at launch.

I would like to see empires being able to form unilateral agreements and alliances between multiple races. Races should be able to form coalitions against particular threats even if sometimes temporary through just pragmatic reasons.

In my opinion diplomacy and relations between empires often get a backseat in these types of games when they should be a pretty important part to be more fleshed out.


I saw nothing about this in the poll which is a bit sad, this is way more important than most of the stuff in there in my opinion.


I also give a lot of importance to diplomacy and character-mediated gameplay in general but, to be fair, the extent of changes on diplomacy in DW2 is still a bit of an unknown (Erik said things here and there that make me think it is already a lot more fleshed out than in DW1), so what an expansion on this topic would be is still unclear at this point.




Erik gave a minor info regarding diplomacy

"Ambassadors in DW2 can help with Empires, Independents and Pirate Factions. In fact, _not_ having an ambassador assigned to a faction can also cause possible diplomatic penalties.

Regards,

- Erik"



zgrssd -> RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? (2/2/2021 11:12:57 AM)

Jump gates are a problem on two fronts:
1. They are largely unessesary, given the wide access to hyperdrives
2. They are a pathfinding nightmare. Every gateway is connected to all other gateways, meaning the number of paths to take from any gateway increaes exponentially with the number of gateways.
Even real life pathfinding does not have to deal with Teleporters in every major city. And that one at least can calculate a few seconds to a minute for any pathing question.



Miletkir -> RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? (2/2/2021 12:00:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

Jump gates are a problem on two fronts:
1. They are largely unessesary, given the wide access to hyperdrives
2. They are a pathfinding nightmare. Every gateway is connected to all other gateways, meaning the number of paths to take from any gateway increaes exponentially with the number of gateways.
Even real life pathfinding does not have to deal with Teleporters in every major city. And that one at least can calculate a few seconds to a minute for any pathing question.


But hyperdrives jumps are limited in distance. Especially in a large galaxy, a jump gate technology can be a decisive strategic advantage. Also, they can be a great storytelling element. In a more realistic setting where the galaxy's mass is composed at 90% of dark matter, probe exploration and the building of gateways would actually be the travel method of choice, because the chance of crashing into a dark matter clump would be too high.
Technically, they can be a superseding path to regular travel (like a shortcut), but they could also be just manually used/activated. Apart from what was said in the FAQ, I don't know what it'd take specifically to integrate them to the modified engine Erik and Elliot have built, but considering this system was integrated for instance to Stellaris, Endless Space or the last Master of Orion, surely this isn't out of reach.



zgrssd -> RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? (2/2/2021 12:42:37 PM)

quote:

Also, they can be a great storytelling element. In a more realistic setting where the galaxy's mass is composed at 90% of dark matter, probe exploration and the building of gateways would actually be the travel method of choice, because the chance of crashing into a dark matter clump would be too high.

That is the background story of Galactic Civilisations:
All they had was sublight probes to explore and give others the plans for the Stargates. Wich did block interstellar warfare, as a side effect and also was not conductive for trade.

Humans just had the (somehow!) unique technology fusion and so managed to turn those gates into proper hyperdrives instead, strating the game:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwYfjMlsuSk



Whiskiz -> RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? (2/2/2021 2:47:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

Jump gates are a problem on two fronts:
1. They are largely unessesary, given the wide access to hyperdrives
2. They are a pathfinding nightmare. Every gateway is connected to all other gateways, meaning the number of paths to take from any gateway increaes exponentially with the number of gateways.
Even real life pathfinding does not have to deal with Teleporters in every major city. And that one at least can calculate a few seconds to a minute for any pathing question.


You think jump gates would be a pathfinding nightmare try orbital planets in a 3D world



Miletkir -> RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? (2/2/2021 3:12:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiskiz


quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

Jump gates are a problem on two fronts:
1. They are largely unessesary, given the wide access to hyperdrives
2. They are a pathfinding nightmare. Every gateway is connected to all other gateways, meaning the number of paths to take from any gateway increaes exponentially with the number of gateways.
Even real life pathfinding does not have to deal with Teleporters in every major city. And that one at least can calculate a few seconds to a minute for any pathing question.


You think jump gates would be a pathfinding nightmare try orbital planets in a 3D world


"And after eight years of hard work, Distant Worlds 2 finally gets its first expansion: Orbiting Jump Gates!"



Erik Rutins -> RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? (2/2/2021 3:16:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Miletkir
"And after eight years of hard work, Distant Worlds 2 finally gets its first expansion: Orbiting Jump Gates!"


Ooh, now we're talking. [8D]



Whiskiz -> RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? (2/2/2021 6:09:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Miletkir


quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiskiz


quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

Jump gates are a problem on two fronts:
1. They are largely unessesary, given the wide access to hyperdrives
2. They are a pathfinding nightmare. Every gateway is connected to all other gateways, meaning the number of paths to take from any gateway increaes exponentially with the number of gateways.
Even real life pathfinding does not have to deal with Teleporters in every major city. And that one at least can calculate a few seconds to a minute for any pathing question.


You think jump gates would be a pathfinding nightmare try orbital planets in a 3D world


"And after eight years of hard work, Distant Worlds 2 finally gets its first expansion: Orbiting Jump Gates!"


[sm=happy0065.gif]



SirHoraceHarkness -> RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? (2/2/2021 6:29:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

Jump gates are a problem on two fronts:
1. They are largely unessesary, given the wide access to hyperdrives
2. They are a pathfinding nightmare. Every gateway is connected to all other gateways, meaning the number of paths to take from any gateway increaes exponentially with the number of gateways.
Even real life pathfinding does not have to deal with Teleporters in every major city. And that one at least can calculate a few seconds to a minute for any pathing question.


My asking for at least a mod function for wormholes/jump gates isn't for this game its for the other sci fi universe mods that use such a mechanic. As to the implementation there isn't any requirement they link to all gates just one other gate. Most of the games that feature this do it that way like in sins of a solar empire. Any ship crossing a certain boundary leaves that wormhole and appears in its paired wormhole. Same with jump gates. This isn't an overly complicated mechanic to code in but it is an extra mechanic the game as designed doesn't use so as Erik has said it will be for some future expansion so they can focus on getting the core game out and us happily playing and forging our new empires.

As to the orbiting planets? Eh. It made for some interesting defensive situations when you would get three planets all aligned and their defenses overlapping but it rarely lasted long enough to ever matter. Doing it this way will allow for some interesting system configurations and possibly the introduction of 'terrain' inside a system that blocks or slows direct travel.



ASHBERY76 -> RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? (2/2/2021 7:11:37 PM)

So happy most have good taste.The best and unique part of this game is the economy so making more of it is the choice.

Playing pirates zzzzzz.To be honest it was a weak expansion in DW1.



Miletkir -> RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? (2/2/2021 7:12:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins


quote:

ORIGINAL: Miletkir
"And after eight years of hard work, Distant Worlds 2 finally gets its first expansion: Orbiting Jump Gates!"


Ooh, now we're talking. [8D]


Ladies and gentlemen, Erik Rutins officially takes on the challenge.

[image]https://media.giphy.com/media/1jXzpfi6nzkEWjdSUk/giphy.gif[/image]



geforth -> RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? (2/2/2021 8:00:39 PM)

Sorry, but non orbiting planets means that the game is static like Stellaris and I dont understand, why it should be more cpu intensive than in the previous one? Is there a y axix or a simulation of the gravitation like in Universe Sandbox? Why don't you give the user the choice? The dynamic of the universe was unique in Distant Worlds and that is one point, why I love this game. I hope that distant worlds 2 won't go too far away from its predecessor. [:)]



Erik Rutins -> RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? (2/2/2021 8:19:42 PM)

I can assure you it still feels like Distant Worlds and the galaxy is dynamic and active. It is not a static game. I realize many folks loved the orbiting planets, but I explained earlier and I believe it's quoted above or in the FAQ thread why planets now rotate but do not orbit.



geforth -> RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? (2/2/2021 8:34:40 PM)

Thank you for your answer. [:)] And please don't get me wrong, I'm still looking forward to the game [:)]



UsF -> RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? (2/2/2021 9:27:20 PM)

I would love the pre-warp phase be expanded. Sending out colonist ships at slower than light speed obviously would require a much larger time scale to adapt for that, but the effects and challenges that would come with such alterations would be very interesting. Probably a different kind of game though, as it would need to model the lack of instant information and it traveling at the speed of light, too.



Miletkir -> RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? (2/2/2021 9:38:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: UsF

I would love the pre-warp phase be expanded. Sending out colonist ships at slower than light speed obviously would require a much larger time scale to adapt for that, but the effects and challenges that would come with such alterations would be very interesting. Probably a different kind of game though, as it would need to model the lack of instant information and it traveling at the speed of light, too.


Have you tried Aurora 4X? The interface is daunting, but it offers pretty much what you describe.



Erik Rutins -> RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? (2/2/2021 9:43:50 PM)

I'd also like to do that in the future. We'll see if we get to it, I imagine it's a somewhat niche interest as there is an element of watching paint dry to sublight play.



UsF -> RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? (2/2/2021 10:02:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miletkir
Have you tried Aurora 4X? The interface is daunting, but it offers pretty much what you describe.


I have. The turn based nature and lack of automation makes it more difficult to get into. Plus before the C version it was very hard to run.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

I'd also like to do that in the future. We'll see if we get to it, I imagine it's a somewhat niche interest as there is an element of watching paint dry to sublight play.


True it might need a conversion of the whole advancement of time, to set it at an about similar pace, but that would throw the interactions in your own solar system off.



OnePercent -> RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? (2/2/2021 10:55:30 PM)

Orbiting planets! Orbiting Planets! Orbiting Planets!



Miskatonic81 -> RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? (2/3/2021 12:08:48 AM)

I would also love to see an expanded pre-warp phase at some point. While it's true there's an element of paint-drying, I also never play DW1 without starting in pre-warp. It's one of the more unique phases of the game, and the contrast makes the tech advances feel more meaningful.



Whiskiz -> RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? (2/3/2021 3:46:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

I'd also like to do that in the future. We'll see if we get to it, I imagine it's a somewhat niche interest as there is an element of watching paint dry to sublight play.


Maybe make sublight interesting by making it a mini version of the rest of the game - put a mini threat/faction that needs to be fought to expand in the starting system, maybe that sends small attacks with small ships towards your stuff - either a small pirate outpost or a little creature enclave.

That way there's early need for more military, more early combat than just a couple static creatures to clear, early expansion still requires consideration and strategy etc.

Maybe a ragtag pirate bunch in a rundown Spacestation with compromised shield/hull/weapons.

See what makes the rest of the game interesting and try to replicate it on a smaller scale.



Miletkir -> RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? (2/3/2021 8:37:33 AM)

Meh. I wouldn't want my "first contact" to be too early.
What could be good though would be a "unite your empire" early storyline where your starting empire would be made of different factions getting their hands on different assets of your system, and you would have to convince or force them to join. Though a bit tricky if you can only start with a single starport.



Whiskiz -> RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? (2/3/2021 8:54:29 AM)

Yeah you don't start off with any assets.

You build a couple then they take over/faction break?

What would that look like and what support would it need just for pre-warp - since it hasn't been made and supported in the rest of the game.

At least with downsizing the game to a sector level, everything's already there.

You say first contact would be too early but it was otherwise likened to watching paint dry, so sounds like there's some sort of room for it [:'(]

Especially if only pirates/creatures, not other actual empires - could even be a split part of your faction instead of pirates/creatures to keep the whole first contact novelty intact. Not that you don't meet pirates or creatures soon after, in the first sector anyway.

And not that that matters to people after like the first couple playthroughs.



Miletkir -> RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? (2/3/2021 12:52:21 PM)

I like the assumption that when your civilization starts, its people think they are alone in the galaxy, or at least that they don't know. If you have another species in the system or some close by or even space monsters within sensor range, that breaks it. Since you just met the requirements for sustained space travel, having established pirates somewhere in the system already doesn't make sense either - I suppose by a stretch of the imagination, they might have done it "secretly"...

In what is a contender for my favorite space strategy/rts game of all times, Haegemonia: Legions of Iron, the starting scenario has Mars breaking off from Earth's influence, and a war for Sol ensues (granted, it's a recurrent theme in games and TV shows...). But this provides tension early on and sets the stakes - when you finally manage to unite your people to conquer the stars as one, it feels great.

There could be several ways to make that happen. Since it's now 3D, you could allow concurrent spaceports at your starting planet, representing the different factions. Or you could queue assets to build at the spaceport but not actually own it at first. Or since you can apparently build anything on your planet without spaceport in DW2, you could pop faction ships from the planet directly.



zgrssd -> RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? (2/3/2021 1:33:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miskatonic81

I would also love to see an expanded pre-warp phase at some point. While it's true there's an element of paint-drying, I also never play DW1 without starting in pre-warp. It's one of the more unique phases of the game, and the contrast makes the tech advances feel more meaningful.

A big issues in DW1 was that you only could move STL in the pre-warp phase, so most of the places in your own system were not realy exploitable - or defendable. Especailly not against fully FTL capable pirates.
In DW2 we will have the "skip drive" as a very early FTL. Basically a Hyperdrive that only works within the System. This would be a requirement to make a extended interplanetary phase viable.

Maybe they could add the "Skip Drive Age" between Pre-FTL and Interstellar Civilisation?


quote:

ORIGINAL: Miletkir

Meh. I wouldn't want my "first contact" to be too early.
What could be good though would be a "unite your empire" early storyline where your starting empire would be made of different factions getting their hands on different assets of your system, and you would have to convince or force them to join. Though a bit tricky if you can only start with a single starport.

Pirates can build spaceports without needing a colony.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Miletkir

I like the assumption that when your civilization starts, its people think they are alone in the galaxy, or at least that they don't know. If you have another species in the system or some close by or even space monsters within sensor range, that breaks it. Since you just met the requirements for sustained space travel, having established pirates somewhere in the system already doesn't make sense either - I suppose by a stretch of the imagination, they might have done it "secretly"...


Most species in DW1 are fully aware there are other species. It is strongly indicated that civilisation follows a circle:
1. Planets aquire the space age roughly at the same time
2. Planets become interstellar empires
3. Galactic Civilsiation collapses, leaving only scattered colony worlds
4. Return to 1

In DW1 you usually have 3 habitable planets (just add technology) in your home System. And 1-2 derilict ships.

Stellaris actually cares quite a bit for "having encountered another species". It is a requirement for the Faction System to become enabeled, among other things. And the space fauna/sentient geology/sentient gasclouds do not count.
The early signs of intelligence (the mining drones) are just remanents. Not any more interesting then ruin to show "there is other life now".

Maybe this was a pirate station in hibernation, crew in stasis, on the far side of a gas giant. And scanners/early FTL activity activated it.
Maybe it was a "nest" of mining drones or cosmozeans, activated by your scanners.
Maybe this is a splinter faction, that had infiltrated your military and created a hidden spaceport and build some ships in secret.
There are many ways to probide a early challenge, without saying "there is alien life active right now!"



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