RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? (Full Version)

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LordMM -> RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? (2/3/2021 4:05:25 PM)

Just like Pirates got an expansion for a separate faction. Wonder if the Private sector can get named subfactions- like a mining company and a transport company etc. Could really add a lot of elements to this game. They will still work for the govt.
-Separate taxable company revenue,
-Company relationship with Empire(based on revenue, tax, freighters getting destroyed etc... )
-Maybe competition between other companies
-Playable private sector in the future? - Maybe?

Just an idea, Would really be one of the most unique expansions in 4x Gaming. Something which would be totally unrivaled by any space 4x for a long long time.



MTGian -> RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? (2/3/2021 4:21:48 PM)

What would I prefer in an expansion?

There are two things that get me excited to play 4X games.

1) Realness/Character/Uniqueness/Replayability - For good or ill, I have been playing 4X games for 30 years. As a result, I am very sensitive when a game experience does not change from playthrough to playthrough.

How do you avoid that? The only way to do it is to go against a core design tenet of making games - scalability. You need uniqueness.

Every planet needs to feel unique. When we do find another colonizable planet in this universe, I am confident that it will be very different from Earth.

Every star system needs to feel unique.

Every region in the galaxy needs to feel unique.

How do you create uniqueness? Good question.

For planets, you could create a handful of characteristics that would make planets different: gravity, axial tilt, atmospheric composition, weather, fauna and so on. Not too many that a player gets bogged down in details, but enough that it makes planets unique. No two planets should be alike. After that, since some of those things would be linked, an algorithm needs to be designed that generates combinations that are realistic. Add in as many wild cards as the designers/players (ask for proposals) can dream of. Comb science fiction. Go nuts!

For star systems, do the equivalent. I am fairly clueless on interstellar objects, but age could be an important factor. A young star systems that is still forming would have a very different composition than one that is old and dying. You could have non-planet objects such as large asteroid belts that could be mined. What about number of stars such as a binary star systems? As with planets, if it exists (or can be imagined), implement it. Ask for proposals from players. If multiple factors would be linked, then create an algorithm that creates possibilities that feel as realistic as possible. Again, go nuts. Have fun with it!

Same goes for regions of the galaxy. Outside of nebulae, I have no idea what type of non-star system objects might exist, but I am sure that there are other players that have ideas.

All of this would be a massive undertaking, but an absolute blast for anyone that loves science fiction. Let the designer's and player's imaginations run wild and just create something where every playthrough is filled with uniqueness. JUST GO NUTS!

That would be my first choice for an expansion. Call it the "JUST GO NUTS!" expansion. Given a choice between this and planets orbiting around the star...ummm, is there really any question which would be more awesome?

2) Economy, economy, economy. Anything that makes the economy feel more real, more detailed, etc.

Thanks for reading.

Edit: I wanted to add before it gets brought up that it has already been acknowledged that more uniqueness/character has been added to planets. I do not mean to disrespect that effort or imply that it was insufficient before I have even seen it. The point that I am trying to make in this post is that I would like to see what would be possible if this sort of thing was the *focus* of development for an expansion. I just think some really cool ideas would be possible if this is the main course rather than part of an ensemble. I hope that makes sense.



Miletkir -> RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? (2/3/2021 4:37:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

Most species in DW1 are fully aware there are other species



I've usually found the story messages a bit ambiguous about that. When you find an artifact of "clearly alien origin" at the start, this may imply the existence of alien civilizations wasn't a certitude. I guess it depends which era you're playing too.

quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

In DW1 you usually have 3 habitable planets (just add technology) in your home System.



Talking about this, I would find natural to start colonization inside your home system, but I usually started by colonizing better-suited planets in neighboring systems. I would like to have different "colonization" levels, such as perhaps small outposts and full-fledged colonies. Surely humans would colonize Mars or Titan in some form before establishing millions of people in another star system.



Rising-Sun -> RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? (2/3/2021 4:47:33 PM)

Guess i am the only one voted for multiplayer, yes those planets orbiting around the sun is more interesting and more alive as the real thing.

I think the most important features would be, making it modable as possible. But that wasnt on the list, this would be my first choice.



arvcran2 -> RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? (2/3/2021 5:05:55 PM)

This is a good time to ask, where did this list come from?



Miletkir -> RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? (2/3/2021 6:05:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: arvcran2

This is a good time to ask, where did this list come from?


From the inquisitive mind of yours truly. Based on suggested expansions that popped up when compiling the FAQ.



SaltiMilk -> RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? (2/3/2021 6:55:55 PM)

After watching just watching the final episode for the Expanse, Its still for me internal politics. Imo it should be possible to play as the only civ in the galaxy and still go through hardships and potentially even loose due to conflicting objectives from prominent characters through out your state.



Miletkir -> RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? (2/3/2021 9:26:08 PM)

Results at 114 votes:

[img]https://i.imgur.com/BdfHkCMl.png[/img]

Looks like there's been an orbiting planets frenzy...



Kingah -> RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? (2/3/2021 10:34:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Miletkir
Looks like there's been an orbiting planets frenzy...


Tbf it's just a meme at this point. Just funny because when I first stumbled upon DW as a wee lad the moving planets was one of the first things that pulled my interest for the game, and the economy got me hooked.

Which reminds me, I really hope they the another "Distant Worlds - Introduction" video with the same script, just new game. Like they did for DW:U [:D]



Miskatonic81 -> RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? (2/4/2021 12:03:13 AM)

My brain says too much work for too little gain, but my heart says: Orbiting planets!



Miletkir -> RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? (2/4/2021 6:19:43 AM)

Maybe Erik and Elliot can patch up something quick before release like:

[image]https://i.imgur.com/3RKd7An.gif[/image]



swappan -> RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? (2/4/2021 8:27:24 AM)

Orbiting planets dont add anything to the game at all. Only annoyance to keep moving the screen or constantly locking into a planet. Also needless computational power which is better spend otherwise. Glad they didnt make it in. The moved too slow to notice really anyway. And who misses them just remember that you can just move your sceen constantly with same effect [:D]

I really would like to see a factory mechanic in DW2 with raw and processed resources. This ties in really well with the unique economy system and real resource transportation. Would also limit the abundance of resources that was present in DW1.



Whiskiz -> RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? (2/4/2021 9:03:35 AM)

raw/processed/manufactured is great extra depth for the players and would great if this was something like Simcity, but otherwise is way too complex for AI, very complex in itself to design especially around the simulated galactic trading economy, kind of pointless just extending resource simulation and is easy to exploit against enemy AI.

It's almost like orbiting planets.



Miletkir -> RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? (2/4/2021 3:06:26 PM)

The top 2 requests are certainly the most challenging...
Erik seemed interested by the concept of layered resource management though, even if he mentioned it in the context of modding.



MTGian -> RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? (2/4/2021 4:19:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: swappan

Orbiting planets dont add anything to the game at all. Only annoyance to keep moving the screen or constantly locking into a planet. Also needless computational power which is better spend otherwise. Glad they didnt make it in. The moved too slow to notice really anyway. And who misses them just remember that you can just move your sceen constantly with same effect [:D]

I really would like to see a factory mechanic in DW2 with raw and processed resources. This ties in really well with the unique economy system and real resource transportation. Would also limit the abundance of resources that was present in DW1.


I would not go so far as to say that it adds nothing, but the orbiting planets is mostly just a cool visual. The planets move slowly enough that outside of pre-warp, you can ignore the movement entirely.

Does that mean the cool visual brings nothing to the game? No, I am not saying that. Visuals do matter. It is like cool special effects in a movie. That does matter, but story (gameplay) matters more. To take this analogy a step further, my last post on "uniqueness" could be interpreted as a request for more character development.

I voted for the raw/processed/manufactured resources, but I don't really know what that would mean as far as gameplay. I just think more economic depth would be cool. That depth could be in the handling of resources, but it could also be more economic depth when it comes to planets.

Planets are pretty simplistic in DW1. Other games have adopted a Civ-like system where the player actually spends resources to build buildings on planets. DW1 has a tiny bit of that with some special projects. My impression is DW2 will expand on that. I think that is a good idea, although I wonder what implementation would be the most fun.

My preference would be something that makes planets feel more alive. I find the Civ-like implementation in other games to be *very* boardgame-like and that gives the opposite of realism for me. This feels like a good topic for a separate thread.

The thing that I will finish this post with is that realism when it comes to gameplay involves mechanics that a player influences rather than controls directly. To use a planet as an example, a planet should build agriculture, manufacturing, research facilities, etc without the player's involvement. If the player has to control each of these, then that does not feel real. However, the player could influence this development by providing extra money, lowering taxes, commissioning special projects, etc. If a planet is developed differently by the AI based upon the quality/characteristics of the planet, which can still be influenced by the player, then you have hit the sweet spot. Mix in different priorities and development styles for different races and you have something incredible.



Jorgen_CAB -> RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? (2/4/2021 6:43:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MTGian

quote:

ORIGINAL: swappan

Orbiting planets dont add anything to the game at all. Only annoyance to keep moving the screen or constantly locking into a planet. Also needless computational power which is better spend otherwise. Glad they didnt make it in. The moved too slow to notice really anyway. And who misses them just remember that you can just move your sceen constantly with same effect [:D]

I really would like to see a factory mechanic in DW2 with raw and processed resources. This ties in really well with the unique economy system and real resource transportation. Would also limit the abundance of resources that was present in DW1.


I would not go so far as to say that it adds nothing, but the orbiting planets is mostly just a cool visual. The planets move slowly enough that outside of pre-warp, you can ignore the movement entirely.

Does that mean the cool visual brings nothing to the game? No, I am not saying that. Visuals do matter. It is like cool special effects in a movie. That does matter, but story (gameplay) matters more. To take this analogy a step further, my last post on "uniqueness" could be interpreted as a request for more character development.

I voted for the raw/processed/manufactured resources, but I don't really know what that would mean as far as gameplay. I just think more economic depth would be cool. That depth could be in the handling of resources, but it could also be more economic depth when it comes to planets.

Planets are pretty simplistic in DW1. Other games have adopted a Civ-like system where the player actually spends resources to build buildings on planets. DW1 has a tiny bit of that with some special projects. My impression is DW2 will expand on that. I think that is a good idea, although I wonder what implementation would be the most fun.

My preference would be something that makes planets feel more alive. I find the Civ-like implementation in other games to be *very* boardgame-like and that gives the opposite of realism for me. This feels like a good topic for a separate thread.

The thing that I will finish this post with is that realism when it comes to gameplay involves mechanics that a player influences rather than controls directly. To use a planet as an example, a planet should build agriculture, manufacturing, research facilities, etc without the player's involvement. If the player has to control each of these, then that does not feel real. However, the player could influence this development by providing extra money, lowering taxes, commissioning special projects, etc. If a planet is developed differently by the AI based upon the quality/characteristics of the planet, which can still be influenced by the player, then you have hit the sweet spot. Mix in different priorities and development styles for different races and you have something incredible.



One thing that sort of don't exist are trade between planets in terms of their civilian economies. In my opinion civilian trade probably should be one of the most common thing that civilian ships do and should in this case be part of the game. This can be part of a resource manufacturing system where planets tend to overproduce certain things and importing others. So instead of resources raising the development level it is these produced goods that does which will then act as catalyst of trade between planets who consume resources to produce them. Most of these produced goods would sort of replace luxury resources, the one that exist now would instead be used to produce different civilian goods.

Aside from this there could also be more governmental buildings and projects one can do to either enhance planets or make them strategic from a military perspective. You can have military academies, galactic stock exchanges or centres of trade projects, galactic universities and many, many more stuff.

This would make individual planets more valuable and immersive as they can be important both from a trade perspective or that you have built some specific important project on them.



Ranbir -> RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? (2/4/2021 6:48:46 PM)

Planetary orbits were really cool. I've personally never liked warping within solar systems and played with a gravity well. So that or pre-warp, you actually cared about the position of your planets because sometimes they'd align and transport would be a short trip but in '6 months' that gas giant is now on the opposite side of the sun and ships need a longer trip.

It just felt really good. Another aspect that made DW feel authentic compared to every other 4x space game which is droll, dry and boring.

That said I don't expect orbiting to come back (if it ever does) any time soon.



Miskatonic81 -> RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? (2/4/2021 6:57:28 PM)

What is stopping every planet from producing every possible processed good? My only concern is that you'd have to limit the planets by some sort of industrial slots, or districts, or some other gamey system. If it requires some arbitrary gamey system, I think I'd prefer it be abstracted like it is now.



zgrssd -> RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? (2/4/2021 9:51:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorgen_CAB


quote:

ORIGINAL: MTGian

quote:

ORIGINAL: swappan

Orbiting planets dont add anything to the game at all. Only annoyance to keep moving the screen or constantly locking into a planet. Also needless computational power which is better spend otherwise. Glad they didnt make it in. The moved too slow to notice really anyway. And who misses them just remember that you can just move your sceen constantly with same effect [:D]

I really would like to see a factory mechanic in DW2 with raw and processed resources. This ties in really well with the unique economy system and real resource transportation. Would also limit the abundance of resources that was present in DW1.


I would not go so far as to say that it adds nothing, but the orbiting planets is mostly just a cool visual. The planets move slowly enough that outside of pre-warp, you can ignore the movement entirely.

Does that mean the cool visual brings nothing to the game? No, I am not saying that. Visuals do matter. It is like cool special effects in a movie. That does matter, but story (gameplay) matters more. To take this analogy a step further, my last post on "uniqueness" could be interpreted as a request for more character development.

I voted for the raw/processed/manufactured resources, but I don't really know what that would mean as far as gameplay. I just think more economic depth would be cool. That depth could be in the handling of resources, but it could also be more economic depth when it comes to planets.

Planets are pretty simplistic in DW1. Other games have adopted a Civ-like system where the player actually spends resources to build buildings on planets. DW1 has a tiny bit of that with some special projects. My impression is DW2 will expand on that. I think that is a good idea, although I wonder what implementation would be the most fun.

My preference would be something that makes planets feel more alive. I find the Civ-like implementation in other games to be *very* boardgame-like and that gives the opposite of realism for me. This feels like a good topic for a separate thread.

The thing that I will finish this post with is that realism when it comes to gameplay involves mechanics that a player influences rather than controls directly. To use a planet as an example, a planet should build agriculture, manufacturing, research facilities, etc without the player's involvement. If the player has to control each of these, then that does not feel real. However, the player could influence this development by providing extra money, lowering taxes, commissioning special projects, etc. If a planet is developed differently by the AI based upon the quality/characteristics of the planet, which can still be influenced by the player, then you have hit the sweet spot. Mix in different priorities and development styles for different races and you have something incredible.



One thing that sort of don't exist are trade between planets in terms of their civilian economies. In my opinion civilian trade probably should be one of the most common thing that civilian ships do and should in this case be part of the game. This can be part of a resource manufacturing system where planets tend to overproduce certain things and importing others. So instead of resources raising the development level it is these produced goods that does which will then act as catalyst of trade between planets who consume resources to produce them. Most of these produced goods would sort of replace luxury resources, the one that exist now would instead be used to produce different civilian goods.

Aside from this there could also be more governmental buildings and projects one can do to either enhance planets or make them strategic from a military perspective. You can have military academies, galactic stock exchanges or centres of trade projects, galactic universities and many, many more stuff.

This would make individual planets more valuable and immersive as they can be important both from a trade perspective or that you have built some specific important project on them.

Isn't that alrady in DW1?
No planets will produce every Luxury and Strategic Resource it needs for growth. But there is sure to be a planet or mining station that does. If it is a planet, you get interplanetary trade. And planets should be prefered, given that you might be able to transport something in both directions.

Maybe they could add some inherent tourism between planets? IIRC tourism in 1 was only towards places with bonus scenery (and propably a resort base), but there should be some tourism attraction for every planet. Especially if it is a different clime and as high quality/development.



OnePercent -> RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? (2/4/2021 11:11:16 PM)

For me orbiting planets is what differentiated distant worlds from the rest, almost no other 4X esque game did it, apart from Hazeron.

Like I mentioned earlier, i'm sure the whole AI pathing issue can be rectified if you drag ships along with planets in a gradient as they get closer to the planet, it totally solved the problem in X Rebirth and X4, because in the previous X games capitol ships use to always collide with fighters as collision avoidance didn't factor in avoiding moving objects.



Jorgen_CAB -> RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? (2/5/2021 7:57:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd
Isn't that alrady in DW1?
No planets will produce every Luxury and Strategic Resource it needs for growth. But there is sure to be a planet or mining station that does. If it is a planet, you get interplanetary trade. And planets should be prefered, given that you might be able to transport something in both directions.

Maybe they could add some inherent tourism between planets? IIRC tourism in 1 was only towards places with bonus scenery (and propably a resort base), but there should be some tourism attraction for every planet. Especially if it is a different clime and as high quality/development.


Yes... the difference would then be that those goods have different uses and abilities and you ONLY find them no populated and industrialised planets you can't find them and mine them anywhere else. These resources still are part of planets development and should be able to change over time depending on the supply and demand of it's surrounding. A planet that are developing should be more likely to provide a good that there is a high demand of as that would earn the planet more income and a slightly higher development which means more goods produces.

Already developed worlds could change the good or the amount they produce but the more developed the world the slower the change should be. This would mean a world that once produced a very sought of good might later produce something that is not so hot anymore and as the world have a high development it is slow to change. Small developing colonies will change their production of goods much more rapidly as they are still able to change more quickly.

I would like such a system where large developed planets are more stagnant than small new developing colonies. It also would encourage more "trade" between planets without a complicated resource production system in place. It also wouldn't burden the player in other ways than providing the infrastructure and making sure you get trade agreement with other powers that have the goods that you want or can sell.



Miletkir -> RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? (2/5/2021 8:18:37 AM)

I know food is abstracted within the private sector, but I wonder if it wouldn't be worth adding as a limiting factor. Historically, it has always been a central element controlling the expansion of empires and the length of wars. On that note, to me, war weariness shouldn't be an abstracted penalty either. It should be a consequence of direct resource and maintenance costs increase.



Jorgen_CAB -> RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? (2/5/2021 8:27:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miletkir

I know food is abstracted within the private sector, but I wonder if it wouldn't be worth adding as a limiting factor. Historically, it has always been a central element controlling the expansion of empires and the length of wars. On that note, to me, war weariness shouldn't be an abstracted penalty either. It should be a consequence of direct resource and maintenance costs increase.



Food really have not been an issue for developed nations since before the industrial revolution and a galactic civilisation would only need basic minerals and energy (the stars) to provide all the food they need. I personally don't think food is realistically an important resource outside the means as a luxury resource.

I do agree on war weariness though... it would be nice if war weariness was hugely impacted on how disruptive it is to the civilian life in more direct ways such as falling development on planets, destruction of civilian assets etc...



Raagun -> RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? (2/5/2021 8:28:24 AM)

Weird that people mostly want things which add practically nothing to game.
Orbiting planets -> visual only. And **** ton of work on programming level.
Resources -> DW is not about resource management essentially. DW only cares about resources on strategic level. Except fuel which is really operational thing. So adding essentially resource management minigame will be bad for game overall I think.

Fight me!! [sm=00000028.gif]



Jorgen_CAB -> RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? (2/5/2021 8:32:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Raagun

Weird that people mostly want things which add practically nothing to game.
Orbiting planets -> visual only. And **** ton of work on programming level.
Resources -> DW is not about resource management essentially. DW only cares about resources on strategic level. Except fuel which is really operational thing. So adding essentially resource management minigame will be bad for game overall I think.

Fight me!! [sm=00000028.gif]


I agree, resource management is what the civilian part of the game take care of. The players role is to provide the infrastructure and security for the civilisation to thrive.

Any type of hands on resource system by the player would be counter productive and not in the spirit of what the player are suppose to be doing. We also should not be able to micro manage production of resources or control how they are produced.



Raagun -> RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? (2/5/2021 8:55:35 AM)

I see more in depth resource part as industry expansion. I see that as ships requiring maintenance and parts which require established industrial base. Basically extra layer on fuel management. But would require industrialized worlds, space ports and something else. This could be really interesting expansion. But it doesnt even require "manufactured resources" actually.



Jorgen_CAB -> RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? (2/5/2021 9:34:11 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Raagun

I see more in depth resource part as industry expansion. I see that as ships requiring maintenance and parts which require established industrial base. Basically extra layer on fuel management. But would require industrialized worlds, space ports and something else. This could be really interesting expansion. But it doesnt even require "manufactured resources" actually.


In my case when I talk about "manufactured" goods it is basically unique resources only produced by planets and not something you can find and mine in space. A resource system that is only important to populated worlds and maybe some strategical resources to advanced ship components but mainly as a trade resource for colonies and developed worlds.

You don't interact with such a system as a player in more ways than you normally do, they just impact the games economy a bit different. I think some of this can be modded into the game though, but planets producing "manufactured" goods somewhat based on supply/demand you probably can't mod into the game.



Whiskiz -> RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? (2/5/2021 9:41:50 AM)

What i'd want for a first expansion isn't new or pretty bells-and-whistles added on, but more of what's already there.

A couple more races, a couple more creature types and behaviors/traits, maybe a couple more hull variants each size of hull, another size hull/ship up from the current largest, some new pieces of tech including weapons and say shields or armor that work differently, some new infrastructure etc.

Maybe more unique racial identity, like each has a unique structure - say Teekans better mining stations, a peaceful nation better defence battery, humans better tourism station, intelligent race better research station etc.

Maybe more world texture and interactivity like with Nebulae (Not that we know exactly what's done with Nebulae yet, but still)

More events and use of deadspace.

More sidegrades of existing techs.

Any number of any of that kind of thing.



Raagun -> RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? (2/5/2021 10:53:06 AM)

I think flagship/hero ship could be interesting mechanic for expansion. Add bit more RPG mechanic next to existing characters. Maybe add morale mechanic to fleets. Making fleet an institution with experience and mechanics adding them character. So ships in well established fleet would be drastically different from freelancing ships. And total fleet wipe out would be devastating.

I mean we will have brand new game. We can expand on formula with new interesting ideas.



Miletkir -> RE: Poll: First DW2 expansion? (2/5/2021 11:38:43 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorgen_CAB

Food really have not been an issue for developed nations since before the industrial revolution and a galactic civilisation would only need basic minerals and energy (the stars) to provide all the food they need.



Really? There were terrible starvations in Russia and Europe during both world wars, and later into the first half of the 20th century. From the 50s, food has been massively wasted and unequally distributed globally, but by no means this is an issue of the past. Distant Worlds is at the scale of entire planets and solar systems. You still need land to have crops, even if science can turn a desert to be fertile (perhaps sustainably someday...). You can even have "agri-domes", sure, but you'd need pretty big ones to feed hundreds of millions of people. Not to mention the logistics.

Should the economy/management aspect of DW2 be expanded, I think food sould be an important factor to introduce for many reasons, one being the realism and "living" feel DW has shined for. Also because, at least in DWU, medical development was the only way to directly boost population growth (aside from ruins and character traits), and that was a bit weak for such a critical variable in the game.



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