Japan production oil issue/bug??? (Full Version)

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jzardos -> Japan production oil issue/bug??? (5/1/2021 7:12:19 PM)

I've conquered DEI and UK Sarawak and Kuala B for several turns now. I see Japan oil production much lower than what my convoy screen shows. I have enough MM, so why does my production of oil show something much lower than what convoys say they are bringing in? At this rate I'll not have enough oil to do anything and almost all my fleets are in port and I'm only at 20 upkeep, but making almost half of that.

What am I missing? Japan will run out of oil in 1942 even after taking all the historical oil areas some even sooner than historical... [&:]

thanks.



gwgardner -> RE: Japan production oil issue/bug??? (5/1/2021 9:29:31 PM)

Hover the mouse over a convoy lane to see what is getting through. Make sure no air units are in full support mode, unless you definitely want them to be.



sveint -> RE: Japan production oil issue/bug??? (5/1/2021 9:48:43 PM)

Same problem here, all of DEI captured, everything looks good except oil income is... 7.



AlbertN -> RE: Japan production oil issue/bug??? (5/1/2021 9:56:28 PM)

I pointed out that issue in my the other forum thread that I ran out of oil with Japan in February '42.



LeLiquid -> RE: Japan production oil issue/bug??? (5/1/2021 9:57:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sveint

Same problem here, all of DEI captured, everything looks good except oil income is... 7.



Partisans maybe ?



sveint -> RE: Japan production oil issue/bug??? (5/1/2021 10:11:46 PM)

This is catastrophic.

[image]local://upfiles/2348/52D8B315CEF94448A8D88C36D733D8A8.jpg[/image]



sveint -> RE: Japan production oil issue/bug??? (5/1/2021 10:16:13 PM)

OK I'll have to halt all my games. I can't see anything that I'm doing wrong.



AlvaroSousa -> RE: Japan production oil issue/bug??? (5/1/2021 11:16:43 PM)

Did you take NEI and Philippines?

I made a modification on the map to get the oil easier.



abchambe -> RE: Japan production oil issue/bug??? (5/2/2021 12:13:34 AM)

It takes a couple of turns for the Japanese to repair the Dutch sabotage of the oil rigs, and get the production flowing.

I have also seen some hexes do not change to Japanese when a country surrenders (Allied planes occupying hexes) so check that all hexes from the Oil rigs to the necessary port are Japanese controlled.



sveint -> RE: Japan production oil issue/bug??? (5/2/2021 12:24:24 AM)

Check the screenshot. 22 resouces are being transported (in the hex I hovered over).
Only 4 oil arrives in Japan. There are no Allied raiders. Something is seriously wrong.



AlbertN -> RE: Japan production oil issue/bug??? (5/2/2021 12:39:06 AM)

Make also sure oil resources and their relative routes to the ports are guarded (each hex in ZoC).
I've experienced partisans making things blow up...

I am not sure (not checked but I can easily emulate it in single player) if conquest or moving on an oil rig destroys it (as per zero's its value and then it slowly repairs).




jupiter999 -> RE: Japan production oil issue/bug??? (5/2/2021 2:27:22 AM)

By the way, I saw many posts appear recently regarding these issues...
I wonder if a better UI/UX is possible, where: when player mouse over a value, say that value 4 in "4 oil arrives in Japan" pointed out by sveint, then a popup will shows a simple ledger how the values being calculated so... [sm=terms.gif]
This way, player knows better, while dev can use it as debugging tool...



sveint -> RE: Japan production oil issue/bug??? (5/2/2021 3:32:12 AM)

This alone is 8 oil. There is a bug somewhere.

[image]local://upfiles/2348/232A9FEE519E4AA0A87AF4CFF543F528.jpg[/image]



echo9c -> RE: Japan production oil issue/bug??? (5/2/2021 5:02:47 AM)

I'm no expert in Warplan, and I'm still learning the game but,

Just for another view, on April 26 1942 my Japanese Oil is:

Oil 61, Oil Upkeep 27 and Oil Stockpile 134 / 27%

I'm not saying its not broken in some peoples games but it seems to be working in my game at least for now.




AlbertN -> RE: Japan production oil issue/bug??? (5/2/2021 12:22:27 PM)

I start to suspect numbers are wrong just in general.

Brits are out of oil in March '42! (Brits lend some to India, which to me is still Brits)
USA has only 66 oil (I've read they'll gain more later)

Right now more than a game it feels that each turn I can only move so few pieces, barring mundane infantry.



AlvaroSousa -> RE: Japan production oil issue/bug??? (5/2/2021 2:43:27 PM)

This issue appears in WPE also. It is that the Axis player believes they can do anything at anytime with any amount of units which isn't the case.

Oil is a resource in this game that has to be managed, saved, and planned for.

Enough beta games have been played that the oil isn't really an issue.

However there are some map modifications I made to make flowing the oil easier in the first patch next week. It was done to remove easy exploits.

30m later......

Ok I just started a 1941 vs the A.I. as Japan.

It is February 1942. 63 oil production, 29 oil stockpile only. But I was sloppy in moving and utilizing my naval and air units, forgot ships at sea back to port, and left the PH strike force at sea by accident for 2 months.

It works just fine.

So generals get your logistical and strategic mind in gear or some hot shot Allied player is going to destroy your oil.



AlbertN -> RE: Japan production oil issue/bug??? (5/2/2021 3:03:35 PM)

So past unkeep Japanese gain of oil per turn will be fluctuating between 20 to 40. Which means few usage of air units and / or navies a turn.

Turns are already 2 week long.

The risk is that the turns will be 'move few pieces, pass turn' which translates into potentially boredom striking hard once the novelty of the game pass.

I think that is a risk - a big one for a game - but it is your game Alvaro; and I suspect that bit will backfire hard later on once the hype subsides.

It will probably turn also the game in a one-strategic dimension about Sumatra (which factually will cut Japan oil income to a net of 0, subtracting unkeep to the other income). Be it as first invasion target OR strategic bombing campaign, it will paralyze Japan making the rest of the map kind of redundant. No fuel, no fleet that sails, no planes that intercept. Even with a cap of 600ish fuel stocked, how long that will last of operational nature - if in 2 months the starting 200+ are burnt at the intensity of combat (nihil) of December'41, where the Allies have hardly fighters flying and naval operations going on?

I am not here to demolish the game, I am here to play it and improve it as I know I won't get a refund but as it is now - I do not know how long I can play the game in an enjoyable way because OIL is a far too heavy factor.



gwgardner -> RE: Japan production oil issue/bug??? (5/2/2021 3:17:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sveint

This alone is 8 oil. There is a bug somewhere.

[image]local://upfiles/2348/232A9FEE519E4AA0A87AF4CFF543F528.jpg[/image]


The 30 oil site has been bombed/damaged.



AlvaroSousa -> RE: Japan production oil issue/bug??? (5/2/2021 3:31:34 PM)

That's the NEI blowing up their oil from scorched earth.



FeanorX66b -> RE: Japan production oil issue/bug??? (5/2/2021 4:35:38 PM)

I am starting my 3 rd game as Japan now because i also have issues with Oil and i dont understand where those problems lie, i remember not having such problems in WP.
If it works as intended, we need more information on the map, and the explanation in the manual is rather poor maybe.



theWombat -> RE: Japan production oil issue/bug??? (5/2/2021 4:45:01 PM)

Interesting discussion. I cannot comment on the mechanics too much, as I have not really done much with the game yet, but I do think that tackling the Pacific War is tough no matter how you do it. Japan had little chance of coming out of the war on top once they attacked the USA. Barring a miraculous coup de main by Japan and a total implosion of American leadership, once Tokyo brought Washington into the fray the issue was not if, only when, Japan would finally run out of steam. Given that resources were the reason for the war, more or less, and that the Japanese went to war with the Allies largely due to needing resources to prosecute the war in China, it seems relatively reasonable to make the game turn on the supplies of things like oil. The challenge is that from a game perspective, the entire situation is hardly balanced or appealing for a potential Japanese player. A game like WitP:AE can get away with it easier because it overwhelms you with minutia and detail; no matter how horribly your war effort is collapsing, there's always a ton of decisions to make and things to fiddle with. Here, with a more elegant and streamlined approach (which I find much more appealing overall, FWIW) you do run the risk of exposing the baked-in strategic imbalance pretty starkly.



FeanorX66b -> RE: Japan production oil issue/bug??? (5/2/2021 5:14:57 PM)

I dont mind running out of oil or ressources as historically happened.
Problem is in this game you cant move any Air Units or Fleets in February 42, which is not historical.
And the System is hard to grasp.
Example:
February 42: 1 Oil Production (or Income), Last turn it was 16.
Convoys say they ship 22 Oil, where are they ?

I dont mind fighting a historical uphill battle, thats why i play Japan. But you cant move anything in February 42, this means there will be no Solomons, no Midway, just Infantry action.....



AlbertN -> RE: Japan production oil issue/bug??? (5/2/2021 6:05:53 PM)

I believe Wombat possible underlined another issue I can forecast too already.

Somewhen there will be 'decisive naval combat'. Which will be 'I move my CV fleet in range of yours, battle happens'.
Without ulterior control from player end I suspect.

Somewhen the waves of USA resources and CVs will prevail. And then the game may boil down to a rince-repeat of 'blockade island, wait for island to run OOS and garrison wither' at operational level where Allies repeat that and the Japanese has little or nothing to do.

I may be wrong and some LBA trap can be setup too.

Anyhow I am digressing. But as we're in hot themes here...
Glad I am not the only player that feel the oil matter quite wrong.



srd5090 -> RE: Japan production oil issue/bug??? (5/2/2021 6:29:43 PM)

It seems like people are chalking low oil up to a bug when they are not examining the game situation properly?

Sveint's screenshot straight up shows his oil resources have been damaged and if player's are over spending oil while not making sure they have solid shipment and generation, then they won't have much oil eventually.

I suspect this game is not meant to be an Axis fantasy land where Japan can do whatever they like. Ships and planes use a lot of oil. Play any other game like WiF and you will see the Japanese are always strapped for resources and need to do a lot with little. It is that challenge that makes Japan fun to play.

EDIT: Typo fix.



sveint -> RE: Japan production oil issue/bug??? (5/2/2021 6:39:18 PM)

I'll try one last time:

My screenshot clearly shows 8 resources leaving Bandar Lampung. My total oil income for the turn is 4.



srd5090 -> RE: Japan production oil issue/bug??? (5/2/2021 6:45:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sveint

I'll try one last time:

My screenshot clearly shows 8 resources leaving Bandar Lampung. My total oil income for the turn is 4.



I'm not an expert on the game, but lacking other screenshots sounds like 8 are leaving and half are being lost on the way? You playing multiplayer or against AI? Any raiding? Enough convoys?



generalfdog -> RE: Japan production oil issue/bug??? (5/3/2021 4:46:09 AM)

The problem is Borneo, as Japan only one of the oil resources ever becomes part of the trade convoy the rest are lost, in the 41 start, 42 it works, i am sure it will be in a patch hopefully sooner rather then later



AlvaroSousa -> RE: Japan production oil issue/bug??? (5/3/2021 3:08:16 PM)

I ran 1941 till February very sloppily and got all the oil.

Someone isn't taking resources correctly.

Remember enemy control of a hex where a convoy is prevents that convoy from going through. So there are some bottle necks. This is part of the map change for the patch. But once you take NEI and Phil you are good.



Friedrich3 -> RE: Japan production oil issue/bug??? (5/3/2021 4:54:36 PM)

I can't see the problem, too. In the turn after the fall of NEI I got all the oil from them. It is not that much but I am carefully with my fleets and aircraft groups. In the British part of Borneo you have to invade both resources because this country has no capital and will never surrender. There is another oil resource in Burma that should be secured early.



bwheatley -> RE: Japan production oil issue/bug??? (5/3/2021 7:20:46 PM)

hit `s` and look at the supply, i'm betting the factories haven't been repaired.

I noticed the first few months i over did it and i was boned until they repaired.

Now i'm finally running with a surplus.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9x-s1kOBojI this video gives a great overview how to use the oil system.
It might be a little different then WPP is but it should help you figure out you're just not understanding how the game is.
I don't mean that to sound like a jerk either. I was there myself, it's just conceptually took a whole different route then most wargames.

It all makes sense but there is a learning curve.



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