Hulls, ship classes and sizes (Full Version)

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Hanekem -> Hulls, ship classes and sizes (5/19/2021 1:50:44 PM)

One of th things that I was more iffy about was the ship designer, I am not sure if I am sold on the idea of hulls as opposed to max size, but I liked what I saw in the latest video, and I can see how it is an improvement over the old system (far less annoying with the crew/life support thingie for one)

I was thinking mostly late game or the like, or alternative ways of constructing hulls and, at the end of the day one thing I liked of the old system was that I could build my ships as big and powerful (and/or cheap) as I felt they needed to be.
With the current system it seems I would need to research hulls, and we could end up with lots of hull designs. Which can be both good and bad, would it be possible to "erase" a particular hull type, for instance (if not erase, to remove it from the options in the construction menu)
Another thing I think could be interesting is if we could build an escort out of, say, a frigate hull, maybe as an option for late game or as an expensive alternative (assuming trying to build tall instead of wide, it could be useful to have fewer, far more capable ships, so having a Frigate (defensive) taking the slot of the escort could be something worth exploring, or alternatively using a "combat frigate" for offensive fleet work that is a cheaper destroyer hull or even a cruiser hull.

Anyway, hoping we will see a release this year, this is shaping to be a must buy at this stage! (Well, it always was, even if I was argumentative about it)



Galaxy227 -> RE: Hulls, ship classes and sizes (5/20/2021 12:53:21 AM)

Cool blob of text. Let me paraphrase for everyone else.

Can we override ship hulls to behave as if the hull were another ship class? For example, a frigate hull taking on the role of an escort.

Speaking out of my ass here, but I'd wager Code Force won't due to the overall "balance" of the game. Hopefully DW2 will be mod-friendly enough to allow for as much though.



Hanekem -> RE: Hulls, ship classes and sizes (5/20/2021 4:58:41 AM)

Also being able to hide hulls, call it "retiring them" after all if we will have N hulls of each type, being able to not seeing them in the build screen would be a godsend



Erik Rutins -> RE: Hulls, ship classes and sizes (5/20/2021 3:16:24 PM)

How a ship behaves and what role it plays in a fleet is based on settings that can be changed by the player both in the ship design stage and once it's built in the tactical settings.

The ship hulls in the research tree are also moddable. If you want fewer or more, you can do that, the only limitation is you have to choose a model that can support all the external components you are including in your hull.

What you see on the design screen is as in DW1 configurable so that you can choose to see or not see obsolete or inactive designs.



Hanekem -> RE: Hulls, ship classes and sizes (5/20/2021 3:45:30 PM)

That's cool
Specially being able to obsolete/retire hulls, unlike components I wasn't sure we'd get the option and with the number seen in the video, I feared we'd end up with a rather large list (which is nice, because options, but can add to clutter at times)

Mind my question was less about modability, you've been clear enough about that (and is all good), and more how ship design and fleet templates interacted. That is why I was asking if, in game without modding, I could classify a ship built off a frigate hull as, say, an escort ship.

I suppose I should have asked more about possible detail in the fleet template screen (now or in the future), say if we can, for instance, set up classes of ships rather than hull types, which didn't seem evident in the screen (just escort, frigate and so on, and how many of each), and that is why I was trying to see if we could classify a ship built off a hull type as another class, which is probably not the best way to go around that, mind.





Jorgen_CAB -> RE: Hulls, ship classes and sizes (5/22/2021 3:05:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hanekem

That's cool
Specially being able to obsolete/retire hulls, unlike components I wasn't sure we'd get the option and with the number seen in the video, I feared we'd end up with a rather large list (which is nice, because options, but can add to clutter at times)

Mind my question was less about modability, you've been clear enough about that (and is all good), and more how ship design and fleet templates interacted. That is why I was asking if, in game without modding, I could classify a ship built off a frigate hull as, say, an escort ship.

I suppose I should have asked more about possible detail in the fleet template screen (now or in the future), say if we can, for instance, set up classes of ships rather than hull types, which didn't seem evident in the screen (just escort, frigate and so on, and how many of each), and that is why I was trying to see if we could classify a ship built off a hull type as another class, which is probably not the best way to go around that, mind.


Ship role and ship class (or hull) is two completely separate thing if I understand correctly. You could design a battleship hull and assign it as en escort ship. Your assistant AI will then use that ship in the escort role.

That is probably how things work... so the hull does not really matter in terms of role. The player will define the role.



Hanekem -> RE: Hulls, ship classes and sizes (5/22/2021 6:13:39 PM)


That sounds great and does put to rest my whole issue with the hulls.

Though I still would like more detail about the fleet template, mostly because from what I've seen in the videos it is escort or frigate and so on and so forth, and it could be tricky if you have, say, second line designs, or are starting to build a new class of, say, destroyers and want to have those be in the big offensive fleets.
So, for instance being able to mark a fleet template to have, say 10 Type 23 destroyers and Type 40 destroyers (that is to say a total of ten of those two, or even go into detail and say you want four of one and six of the other) as opposed to 10/20 destroyer class ships

So you could have, dunno, a defensive destroyer design for the defensive fleets (maybe faster, shorter ranged? Then the offensive) or older ships (either upgraded or not) in some reserve fleets (waiting for slips to open up, or for new construction to finish before putting them in the refit queue (or waiting for some tech to finish researching)
I mean having that sort of detail possible would make managing different sort of fleets easier, and upgrade cycles could be easier and hands off (ish)



Patrick Slater -> RE: Hulls, ship classes and sizes (5/24/2021 5:40:24 PM)

Striking power of the U.S. Navy once consisted of battleships, but now their role has shifted to aircraft carriers. The largest U.S. warships are aircraft carriers Type Nimitz (Abraham Lincoln, Harry Truman, George Washington), weighing 97,000 tons and 333 meters long. Aircraft carriers are usually named after U.S. presidents. The aircraft carrier commander has the rank of Rear Admiral, corresponding to the Russian Rear Admiral, as he coordinates his activities with the captains of other ships.

Apart from aircraft carriers, the largest ships in the US Navy are heavy cruisers, with displacement varying from 10,000[10] to 17,000 tons[11].

The next class of ships are destroyers (destroyer: fighter) and submarines (submarine: submarine). They have a displacement of 6,000-9,000 tons and vary in length from 110[12] to 153 meters[13]. Submarines are often named after American cities. The commander of this class of ship is usually a commander. The frigate class, which has a smaller displacement (from 1,500[14] to 4,000[15] tons), adjoins the destroyer class. The title of frigate captain is synonymous with commander and is analogous to the Russian captain of the 2nd rank.



Hanekem -> RE: Hulls, ship classes and sizes (5/26/2021 1:24:30 PM)

I am not sure if I understand your point, Patrick

I mean I'd argue that the US navy has no real cruiser class ship, they do have enlarged destroyers that got the label due to politics, hell the difference between Frigate and destroyer is a bit iffy, the former is supposedly a cheaper alternative, kinda like the WWII era Destroyer Escort, but then you start looking at the rest of the NATO and you noticed that some of the European Frigates are Destroyers, I mean, classifications are a case by case basis, think the brits consider a frigate a ship that is more ASW prepared, for instance.
Or we can go a bit back and remember that frigates used to hold the same slot of the cruiser, in the age of sail and the re use of frigates is something of the XX century, prolly british, as a way of assigning an unused name to a ASW small combatant
Honestly, class names are a morass with exceptions and politics all around with labels used mostly inconsistently (even within a same navy), even in times when there was a desire to keep things cleanish.

But ultimately I don't understand what has to do with the topic here



Jorgen_CAB -> RE: Hulls, ship classes and sizes (5/26/2021 10:42:48 PM)

Use of classes have always been a blurry line and differed between countries and the time they found themselves in.



Hanekem -> RE: Hulls, ship classes and sizes (5/27/2021 12:11:39 AM)

That much I agree, hence why I wasn't very enthusiastic about the hulls having a type names.
I mean, it shows how awesome an influence Master of Orion had on the genre, but it is a bit static and... dated.

Still I am more interested in seeing how the fleet template is going to work, and what limitations will have, since that was, ultimately, part of my issue with the system because being able to have not only differentfleet types but classes themselves could help a lot with creating different fleets (main fleet, reserve, second line, raiding fleets, defensive fleets and so on and so forth)




Erik Rutins -> RE: Hulls, ship classes and sizes (5/27/2021 12:23:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hanekem
That much I agree, hence why I wasn't very enthusiastic about the hulls having a type names.
I mean, it shows how awesome an influence Master of Orion had on the genre, but it is a bit static and... dated.


Frankly it was more of a historical influence than MOO in this case, but agree that MOO has had a huge influence on all Sci-Fi 4xs that came after it. RFTS and the original Gal Civ and many others have also been big influences, alongside a lot of other great strategy games and military/sci-fi novels.

Regards,

- Erik



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