RE: Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub (Full Version)

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M60A3TTS -> RE: Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub (8/20/2021 8:41:45 PM)

The game might well hinge on this choice no matter what you pocket. If you ignored these units and bypassed them, and successfully gotten to Rzhev, he'd be compelled to give up a big chunk of real estate. So you're choosing men over ground. It will be fun to see how that works out. I really think it could go either way.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub (8/20/2021 8:41:58 PM)

Turn 6 (Real time update)

Smolensk has been taken. I deliberate attack to cause as much carnage as possible but the Airborne brigade routes away.



[image]local://upfiles/53556/A7A980061F564BC6A98D14F9A960642B.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub (8/20/2021 8:46:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

The game might well hinge on this choice no matter what you pocket. If you ignored these units and bypassed them, and successfully gotten to Rzhev, he'd be compelled to give up a big chunk of real estate. So you're choosing men over ground. It will be fun to see how that works out. I really think it could go either way.


Ya, he may be perfectly fine. It is a race against time for sure but I am 100% after his men. Moscow is a nice 2nd prize if you will. But this isn't the only spot on the field of battle for sure to grab men. The North is looking pretty good again I bet :)

I feel Jubjub re-enforced the northern area pretty hard. More of a knee jerk reaction. Years of experience tell me this was the case.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub (8/20/2021 9:05:55 PM)

Turn 6 (Real Time Update)

I bring up my 3 Moto Div and attack. The Soviet Rifle division retreats shown in Orange. Not the way I wanted it too :( Oh well

No reserve activation.

[image]local://upfiles/53556/4E9F5E3498AF4D92BD6CB7F01A9E738D.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub (8/20/2021 9:08:59 PM)

Turn 6 (Real Time update)

I attack the unit to the east. It retreats one hex correctly to my estimated pocket to form in yellow. good.

No Soviet Reserve activation yet. Hmmmmm, maybe I was wrong

[image]local://upfiles/53556/AF17E878DFA546D597752A39C2198AF2.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub (8/20/2021 9:12:11 PM)

Turn 6 (Real Time Update)

I move up and now have an Rifle Div on left and Sec regiment. I attack the regiment and route it away.

Hmmmmm, still no activation. My forcast suxs at this game :(

[image]local://upfiles/53556/BD939C8655B946E9873D74C8ED4A9446.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub (8/20/2021 9:16:43 PM)

Turn 6 (Real Time Update)

4 attack and Finally get a reserve activation. Sheesh about time. I wanted more Soviet Armor/Meck activation to destroy tanks :( But you can see the results in this slide on tank losses from 3 German Moto Divs. Of course these 3 division are pretty exhausted otherwise it would have been far worse for them if they weren't.

Yes, I was fishing for Soviet Armor/Mech Activation.

[image]local://upfiles/53556/9DE374C201CC4DEE87F73C182DA01BD5.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub (8/20/2021 9:54:52 PM)

Turn 6 (Real Time Update)

I move up 2 regiments of Totenkopf. I have to be careful for what I wish for since I got a reserve activation. Luckily it was turned into a Scout result. Lost 343 men but got 39 Soviet tanks. :( My boys are tired but ask them to attack the Airborne Regiment again.

[image]local://upfiles/53556/460EA12D2AC24FE88E55AE137E321353.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub (8/20/2021 9:56:22 PM)

Turn 6

2nd attack does the trick and the pesty Airborne Brigade routes off.


[image]local://upfiles/53556/C0FBDA6D965B43B8927862C3BC267EB0.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub (8/20/2021 9:59:56 PM)

Turn 6

Attack from the North to finish off the pocket. I had to do other attacks in the north to make this happen.

Now I need to pause and give thought on some things. May revise my strat. Gotta think about it. Going to save the turn and come back later.

[image]local://upfiles/53556/3B6D4037B27849DD8B1D29AAA0F293FE.jpg[/image]



M60A3TTS -> RE: Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub (8/20/2021 10:15:19 PM)

My suggestion to jubjub is:

Last time those interdiction attacks cost you some painful air losses.

Now do it again. Keep burning off his admin movement while he's hung up in the woods. You won't get a much better opportunity than this to slow him down and give you time to get more stuff where you need it.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub (8/20/2021 10:30:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

My suggestion to jubjub is:

Last time those interdiction attacks cost you some painful air losses.

Now do it again. Keep burning off his admin movement while he's hung up in the woods. You won't get a much better opportunity than this to slow him down and give you time to get more stuff where you need it.


Nice suggestion... But I am within 2 hexes of the front line already with the whole 4th Army and 4th Panzer. So please go ahead and send them anyway.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub (8/20/2021 10:31:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain


quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

My suggestion to jubjub is:

Last time those interdiction attacks cost you some painful air losses.

Now do it again. Keep burning off his admin movement while he's hung up in the woods. You won't get a much better opportunity than this to slow him down and give you time to get more stuff where you need it.


Nice suggestion... But I am within 2 hexes of the front line already. So please go ahead and send them anyway.


You may slow up the FBD but the FBD is almost to the airport Nelidovo next turn.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub (8/20/2021 10:33:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain


quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

My suggestion to jubjub is:

Last time those interdiction attacks cost you some painful air losses.

Now do it again. Keep burning off his admin movement while he's hung up in the woods. You won't get a much better opportunity than this to slow him down and give you time to get more stuff where you need it.


Nice suggestion... But I am within 2 hexes of the front line already. So please go ahead and send them anyway.


You may slow up the FBD but the FBD is almost to the airport Nelidovo next turn.


Which means supply is within 3-4 hexes. Now, the things that make you say, "Hmmmmmmmm" ;-P



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub (8/20/2021 10:38:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain


quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

My suggestion to jubjub is:

Last time those interdiction attacks cost you some painful air losses.

Now do it again. Keep burning off his admin movement while he's hung up in the woods. You won't get a much better opportunity than this to slow him down and give you time to get more stuff where you need it.


Nice suggestion... But I am within 2 hexes of the front line already. So please go ahead and send them anyway.


You may slow up the FBD but the FBD is almost to the airport Nelidovo next turn.


Which means supply is within 3-4 hexes. Now, the things that make you say, "Hmmmmmmmm" ;-P


All 3 supply lines are converged and I am past Vitsbek going towards Smolensk now. Minsk > Vitsbek, VL and back to Germany is a 3 way railway now. With lines going from VL to Riga using the Coast and another going down through Vilinus.



M60A3TTS -> RE: Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub (8/20/2021 10:43:00 PM)

I never bank on interdiction doing much of anything related to supply. It's all about doubling your cost to move through light woods hexes and make heavy woods movement costly for the mech. Also, after the offensive is over in the Fall, much of this becomes not so important as interdiction becomes less of a "thing". Right now, movement denial/degradation has to be a part of the Soviet playbook.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub (8/20/2021 10:45:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

I never bank on interdiction doing much of anything related to supply. It's all about doubling your cost to move through light woods hexes and make heavy woods movement costly for the mech. Also, after the offensive is over in the Fall, much of this becomes not so important as interdiction becomes less of a "thing". Right now, movement denial/degradation has to be a part of the Soviet playbook.


But "what" unit is being denied? 4th Army and 4th Pz are on the front line.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub (8/20/2021 10:48:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

I never bank on interdiction doing much of anything related to supply. It's all about doubling your cost to move through light woods hexes and make heavy woods movement costly for the mech. Also, after the offensive is over in the Fall, much of this becomes not so important as interdiction becomes less of a "thing". Right now, movement denial/degradation has to be a part of the Soviet playbook.


But "what" unit is being denied? 4th Army and 4th Pz are on the front line.


I guess the local cattle or forest animals could be denied Admin movement ;-P



M60A3TTS -> RE: Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub (8/20/2021 10:53:29 PM)

There's a good answer for that, but I'll let you ponder it for a while. I need to save a few things for our game after all. [;)]



AlbertN -> RE: Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub (8/20/2021 11:05:10 PM)

I may be wrong but supply too traverse the forest in the Logistic phase and is subject to the Interdiction.
So I believe the issue there is that - a matter of how much supply goes around and how many trucks are used / lost.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub (8/20/2021 11:05:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

There's a good answer for that, but I'll let you ponder it for a while. I need to save a few things for our game after all. [;)]


I already know.

But this was about admin movement of a unit coming through the woods. Was it not?



M60A3TTS -> RE: Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub (8/20/2021 11:12:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AlbertN

I may be wrong but supply too traverse the forest in the Logistic phase and is subject to the Interdiction.
So I believe the issue there is that - a matter of how much supply goes around and how many trucks are used / lost.


You're pretty much spot on Albert. The amount of supplies and trucks lost are really rather trivial to the point of not really having an impact. It was a subject that was brought up some time ago but to my knowledge there was no real interest on the part of the devs to do anything about it. Bigger fish to fry I suppose.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub (8/20/2021 11:12:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AlbertN

I may be wrong but supply too traverse the forest in the Logistic phase and is subject to the Interdiction.
So I believe the issue there is that - a matter of how much supply goes around and how many trucks are used / lost.


Correct.




HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub (8/20/2021 11:15:54 PM)

Either way it is fine with me. The airport will expand & will have a depot next turn with rail link and I will bring in fighters either this turn or next. I really dont mind the massacre to continue of the Soviet bombers.



AlbertN -> RE: Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub (8/20/2021 11:17:08 PM)

Hmm - I think it is a long term trickle the one of supplies and trucks lost.
Not something felt now but in X game time, yes.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub (8/20/2021 11:21:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AlbertN

Hmm - I think it is a long term trickle the one of supplies and trucks lost.
Not something felt now but in X game time, yes.


Correct.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub (8/23/2021 1:32:41 PM)

Turn 6 End of Turn (Real time German turn End. Turn is with the Soviets right now)

Center

Final snapshot of the start of Operation Typhoon.

Shown in Orange is the FBD that went through VL for the front. Hope to be done in a turn or two on this rail line since I need the FBD elsewhere. The two other FBD's linked up at Vitsbek this turn.

Shown in Yellow is 2nd Armys 16 Division in the Center waiting behind the line. This infantry Army is waiting for the pounce as soon as the slippery Soviets stop retreating. I have been accumulating CCP and they are primed and ready to go.

Shown with a Lime arrow is my weakest defense point hex of 15

8 Divisions and 1 Security in the pocket. Not much of a pocket but it is a start.

[image]local://upfiles/53556/B440490031DE40C886D446C8396E99FC.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub (8/23/2021 1:51:47 PM)

Turn 6

Payback is hell!

Whatever the Soviets can do in 1941 the Germans can do twice as well. Soviets molested my poor Romanians to the south last turn(see post #198) Time for payback.

Force route a Soviet Rifle Division across the river with good losses. I could have gotten units to the NW and SE of the Soviet Division before attacking(marked in blue) but would not have been able to continue north with those units that could have made it. So decided to go with straight up attack.



[image]local://upfiles/53556/F056E965B9A6482898ADF9974FF7DBBF.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub (8/23/2021 1:56:21 PM)

Turn 6

Payback a 2nd time is even nicer.

This time I occupy the two hexes marked in orange before the Deliberate attack. The attack shatters the unit stationed in front of the major river. I retreat behind my infantry with armor/Moto here mimicking the Soviet attacks.

The Soviet Division remnants(20 men) are still trying to figure out what hit them. Rumor has it it was supernatural beings from another plane of existence.



[image]local://upfiles/53556/566425F110D34B7FB02736B5C7113972.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub (8/23/2021 2:08:58 PM)

Turn 6

The 2 RAD battalions that I brought from Norway 3 turns ago went straight to work on rail. (I sent 2 construction units to Norway in their place)

[image]local://upfiles/53556/91064D2A58E444DFB98A27481EC14D56.jpg[/image]



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