RE: Tomorrow, and tomorrow and tomorrow Axis (HLYA) vs Guctony (Soviet) (Full Version)

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K62 -> RE: Tomorrow, and tomorrow and tomorrow Axis (HLYA) vs Guctony (Soviet) (9/17/2021 5:27:04 PM)

I would call it primary objective center-south as Voronezh is beyond the historical line and poses a threat to Moscow. The idea is to keep the panzers out of woods/swamps and force the Soviets to defend a lot of open steppe in a lot of different directions.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Tomorrow, and tomorrow and tomorrow Axis (HLYA) vs Guctony (Soviet) (9/17/2021 5:30:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: vvs007

quote:

All my games are "No Early End" scenarios after the release of this scenario. It is only fair.


of course its were all won early (Bravo Master!). There was hope for M60A3TTSs strong resistance! , but something does not start in any way, it's a pity.

"finally"... in the sense that this is an example for other matches (for other players) to write for houserules! Fight till the end! :)

Good Game!

p.s. of course You are free to play as You want (this is to the question of "historical" moves 2,3 - of course it doesn't make sense, we love the WITE2 for simulating different paths: "what would happen if ...")

p.p.s. English is not my native language, sorry if I offend someone, it is difficult for me to express my thoughts correctly and gently.


@Para #1 = Are you sure that a game isn't with M60 already ;-)

@Para #2 = I think No Early End gives a better showing of the game

@Para #3 = Great :)

@Para #4 = Yes, but you can still give me an objective so I can do a tally for my primary. Will make it fun. Guctony may do it for the Soviets when he rolls over to the Offense.

#Para #5 = No offense taken. It is all about understand everyone.

Please give me your objective that I should try for. Thank you in advance.



Bitburger -> RE: Tomorrow, and tomorrow and tomorrow Axis (HLYA) vs Guctony (Soviet) (9/17/2021 5:38:50 PM)

Since you obviously love a challenge, i say Stalingrad, cutting the vital oil shipments along the volga and leaving the caucasus as low hanging fruit for 42.
let's see what you can do with unlimited motorization :)



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Tomorrow, and tomorrow and tomorrow Axis (HLYA) vs Guctony (Soviet) (9/17/2021 6:14:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: K62

I would call it primary objective center-south as Voronezh is beyond the historical line and poses a threat to Moscow. The idea is to keep the panzers out of woods/swamps and force the Soviets to defend a lot of open steppe in a lot of different directions.


Thank you for your objective.

Another for the South



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Tomorrow, and tomorrow and tomorrow Axis (HLYA) vs Guctony (Soviet) (9/17/2021 6:17:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bitburger

Since you obviously love a challenge, i say Stalingrad, cutting the vital oil shipments along the volga and leaving the caucasus as low hanging fruit for 42.
let's see what you can do with unlimited motorization :)


Thank you for your objective.

Another for the South. I don't have unlimited Motorization since I need Moto/PZ to convert the hexes first before moving into Soviet Territory with just bought Motorized Inf Division. But it will help.



quantas -> RE: Tomorrow, and tomorrow and tomorrow Axis (HLYA) vs Guctony (Soviet) (9/17/2021 7:22:58 PM)

i prefer moscow



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Tomorrow, and tomorrow and tomorrow Axis (HLYA) vs Guctony (Soviet) (9/17/2021 9:49:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: quantas

i prefer moscow


Thank you for your objective.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Tomorrow, and tomorrow and tomorrow Axis (HLYA) vs Guctony (Soviet) (9/17/2021 10:03:22 PM)

I want to thank everyone for posting your Objectives as Virtual Hitler for me to try obtain in the game so far.

I have done a quick tally of these objective for a total of 12. I received two emails, one for Moscow and one for the South Rostov. I have tallied the total to come out as follows.

North = 1
Center = 4
South = 6
Historical = 1




HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Tomorrow, and tomorrow and tomorrow Axis (HLYA) vs Guctony (Soviet) (9/17/2021 10:11:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

I want to thank everyone for posting your Objectives as Virtual Hitler for me to try obtain in the game so far.

I have done a quick tally of these objective for a total of 12. I received two emails, one for Moscow and one for the South Rostov. I have tallied the total to come out as follows.

North = 1
Center = 4
South = 6
Historical = 1



Fuhrer Directive #21 has been accepted and the South with the rich grain fields, industry and Oil fields are the primary objective for the game as Germany. I have just now accepted the challenge and will begin the VERY long trek to the Oil Fields.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Tomorrow, and tomorrow and tomorrow Axis (HLYA) vs Guctony (Soviet) (9/17/2021 10:13:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

I want to thank everyone for posting your Objectives as Virtual Hitler for me to try obtain in the game so far.

I have done a quick tally of these objective for a total of 12. I received two emails, one for Moscow and one for the South Rostov. I have tallied the total to come out as follows.

North = 1
Center = 4
South = 6
Historical = 1



Fuhrer Directive #21 has been accepted and the South with the rich grain fields, industry and Oil fields are the primary objective for the game as Germany. I have just now accepted the challenge and will begin the VERY long trek to the Oil Fields.



God have mercy on us if we fail.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Tomorrow, and tomorrow and tomorrow Axis (HLYA) vs Guctony (Soviet) (9/17/2021 10:16:27 PM)

As in all my AAR's my opponent is free to post & read at all times. Again, we have a 4 turn delay but I will ask Guctony if ok to post the first turn as Germany since there are not any Soviet moves.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Tomorrow, and tomorrow and tomorrow Axis (HLYA) vs Guctony (Soviet) (9/18/2021 12:49:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

As in all my AAR's my opponent is free to post & read at all times. Again, we have a 4 turn delay but I will ask Guctony if ok to post the first turn as Germany since there are not any Soviet moves.


Addendum

Guctony has lifted the 4 turn delay on AAR posting for the game with the note that he is following the AAR. I figured that "Ultra" information would in a round about way make its way to the Soviet Union through Britain so I don't have a problem with this. I do this in all my AAR's anyway and if my opponent can use the information then that is fine. I am sure many do. Personally I would rather post to give my 2 cent commentary while fresh in my memory and maybe some of my horrid musings will play out for others to use. It is all about the journey.

Lets begin



tm1 -> RE: Tomorrow, and tomorrow and tomorrow Axis (HLYA) vs Guctony (Soviet) (9/18/2021 1:52:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

As in all my AAR's my opponent is free to post & read at all times. Again, we have a 4 turn delay but I will ask Guctony if ok to post the first turn as Germany since there are not any Soviet moves.


Addendum

Guctony has lifted the 4 turn delay on AAR posting for the game with the note that he is following the AAR. I figured that "Ultra" information would in a round about way make its way to the Soviet Union through Britain so I don't have a problem with this. I do this in all my AAR's anyway and if my opponent can use the information then that is fine. I am sure many do. Personally I would rather post to give my 2 cent commentary while fresh in my memory and maybe some of my horrid musings will play out for others to use. It is all about the journey.

Lets begin



You need this man as your Chief Of Intelligence to run interference



[image]local://upfiles/44686/B0B78E6648B745F8980DC89D49645355.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Tomorrow, and tomorrow and tomorrow Axis (HLYA) vs Guctony (Soviet) (9/18/2021 2:19:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tm1


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

As in all my AAR's my opponent is free to post & read at all times. Again, we have a 4 turn delay but I will ask Guctony if ok to post the first turn as Germany since there are not any Soviet moves.


Addendum

Guctony has lifted the 4 turn delay on AAR posting for the game with the note that he is following the AAR. I figured that "Ultra" information would in a round about way make its way to the Soviet Union through Britain so I don't have a problem with this. I do this in all my AAR's anyway and if my opponent can use the information then that is fine. I am sure many do. Personally I would rather post to give my 2 cent commentary while fresh in my memory and maybe some of my horrid musings will play out for others to use. It is all about the journey.

Lets begin



You need this man as your Chief Of Intelligence to run interference



[image]local://upfiles/44686/B0B78E6648B745F8980DC89D49645355.jpg[/image]


Sorry, I don't know who this is :)



tm1 -> RE: Tomorrow, and tomorrow and tomorrow Axis (HLYA) vs Guctony (Soviet) (9/19/2021 12:15:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain


quote:

ORIGINAL: tm1


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

As in all my AAR's my opponent is free to post & read at all times. Again, we have a 4 turn delay but I will ask Guctony if ok to post the first turn as Germany since there are not any Soviet moves.


Addendum

Guctony has lifted the 4 turn delay on AAR posting for the game with the note that he is following the AAR. I figured that "Ultra" information would in a round about way make its way to the Soviet Union through Britain so I don't have a problem with this. I do this in all my AAR's anyway and if my opponent can use the information then that is fine. I am sure many do. Personally I would rather post to give my 2 cent commentary while fresh in my memory and maybe some of my horrid musings will play out for others to use. It is all about the journey.

Lets begin



You need this man as your Chief Of Intelligence to run interference



[image]local://upfiles/44686/B0B78E6648B745F8980DC89D49645355.jpg[/image]


Sorry, I don't know who this is :)


I just so happening to be watching the extended version of this movie and noticed your post about " Ultra " finding out about the " Ostheer's " plans for the Eastern Campaign and thought it would be fun to post a picture of one the iconic characters ( getting into the spirit of the upcoming Battle ).


Oberst Max Radl ( AKA Robert Duvall )

Alpenkorps Officer and Head of Section III Abwehr Under Admiral Wilhelm Canaris

Great film to watch

By the way you will probably have more trouble with the enemy getting there intelligence about your plans through " The Lucy Spy Ring " that operated out of Switzerland.

cheers





[image]local://upfiles/44686/A4997C5215F54EF691258AC1AEFA5042.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Tomorrow, and tomorrow and tomorrow Axis (HLYA) vs Guctony (Soviet) (9/19/2021 2:05:26 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tm1


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain


quote:

ORIGINAL: tm1


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

As in all my AAR's my opponent is free to post & read at all times. Again, we have a 4 turn delay but I will ask Guctony if ok to post the first turn as Germany since there are not any Soviet moves.


Addendum

Guctony has lifted the 4 turn delay on AAR posting for the game with the note that he is following the AAR. I figured that "Ultra" information would in a round about way make its way to the Soviet Union through Britain so I don't have a problem with this. I do this in all my AAR's anyway and if my opponent can use the information then that is fine. I am sure many do. Personally I would rather post to give my 2 cent commentary while fresh in my memory and maybe some of my horrid musings will play out for others to use. It is all about the journey.

Lets begin



You need this man as your Chief Of Intelligence to run interference



[image]local://upfiles/44686/B0B78E6648B745F8980DC89D49645355.jpg[/image]


Sorry, I don't know who this is :)


I just so happening to be watching the extended version of this movie and noticed your post about " Ultra " finding out about the " Ostheer's " plans for the Eastern Campaign and thought it would be fun to post a picture of one the iconic characters ( getting into the spirit of the upcoming Battle ).


Oberst Max Radl ( AKA Robert Duvall )

Alpenkorps Officer and Head of Section III Abwehr Under Admiral Wilhelm Canaris

Great film to watch

By the way you probably has more trouble with the enemy getting there intelligence about your plans through " The Lucy Spy Ring " that operated out of Switzerland.

cheers





[image]local://upfiles/44686/A4997C5215F54EF691258AC1AEFA5042.jpg[/image]


Oh! Thank you for sharing. I will look it up to watch.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Tomorrow, and tomorrow and tomorrow Axis (HLYA) vs Guctony (Soviet) (9/19/2021 2:22:37 AM)

Turn 1

Air Phase

In this game I am going back to bombing Airfields instead of just intercepting with just fighters. I really don't care what they bomb on the Soviet Airfields as long as I destroy something. I have found that bombing at 5,000ft draws no fighters over 99% of the time and take overall less losses. The only time that Soviet fighters seem to intercept is on JU-87's and still pretty rare in my tests previous to this game(I only have 1 hex with Stuka bombings). I have a twist to this too but decided not to do the twist which incorporates night bombing into the equation. BUT I had not perfected this technique prior to the start of this game thus was not going to hold up the game any longer with further testing of night bombing. You can get even less losses at a certain altitude but I was getting varying numbers. I will work on it more to figure it out later.

Anyway, here are my numbers, which I know I could have done better but this will work just fine. Also, don't know who wrote it in another post but you can 100% have more than 32 Air Directives and they will all go off if done properly. I did it here with these results. Without further ado here are just my bombing numbers, without any fighter escort, bombing at 5,000 ft for the Germans & Hungarians & 7,000 ft with the Rumanians. Again, not bad numbers but can be improved on. 37 German planes for 3,035 Soviet planes.

[image]local://upfiles/53556/91ACE1A160054A189400BE5330B67EB2.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Tomorrow, and tomorrow and tomorrow Axis (HLYA) vs Guctony (Soviet) (9/19/2021 2:25:45 AM)

Turn 1

Air Phase

I send all the BF-110's off to retrain to fighters. Will see them on turn 8 again when I send them all to the Western Front.

[image]local://upfiles/53556/CADC9773A9234BF0BF08387A8E4A8F2E.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Tomorrow, and tomorrow and tomorrow Axis (HLYA) vs Guctony (Soviet) (9/19/2021 2:28:54 AM)

Turn 1

Air Phase

I bring the two (2) RAD units from Norway for rail repair. I send from the map to Norway two construction workers and these units will be in place turn 4.

[image]local://upfiles/53556/002C5179DCB34487B95BE7076C48C008.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Tomorrow, and tomorrow and tomorrow Axis (HLYA) vs Guctony (Soviet) (9/19/2021 2:49:31 AM)

Turn 1

Air Phase

Marked in Orange is the minimum acceptable Fuhrer 1941 objectives. This will give us a nice springboard into the rich oilfields, and to Stalingrad to occupy Stalin City to rename it Hitlergrad. The key cities of Kiev, Kharkov, Sevestopol, and Stalino being the big 4 Cities marked for occupation as quickly as possible. Voronezh & Rostov as 2 cities marked for occupation as a rest and relaxation spots for the winter since we are expecting a very mild winter and very little Russian resistance as we just have to kick in the door before it all crumbles. Should be a leisure drive in the countryside ;-)





(***Please note the above is just me roleplaying although I am not good at it***)

[image]local://upfiles/53556/7B7516F03B534F1898FCE7D1AEE06FC5.jpg[/image]



AlbertN -> RE: Tomorrow, and tomorrow and tomorrow Axis (HLYA) vs Guctony (Soviet) (9/19/2021 4:27:12 AM)

In case of bombing, isn't more efficient to use the Bf110s on T1 and send them back to retreat in T2 or so?
My opinion at least!



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Tomorrow, and tomorrow and tomorrow Axis (HLYA) vs Guctony (Soviet) (9/19/2021 4:44:49 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AlbertN

In case of bombing, isn't more efficient to use the Bf110s on T1 and send them back to retreat in T2 or so?
My opinion at least!


Yup, 100% correct. But I messed up and converted them the 1st thing on getting the game. Only to realize later I messed up. :-(. No biggie, I just continued forward with my mistake.



AlbertN -> RE: Tomorrow, and tomorrow and tomorrow Axis (HLYA) vs Guctony (Soviet) (9/19/2021 2:19:34 PM)

Given atm bombing post T1 is highly inefficient but in '41 to have some bombers that can survive without getting minced if unescorted & intercepted by shoddy Soviet planes is not a bad thing.
Presently certainly they're useless as bombers - but assuming that will get a 'fix' somewhen in the future my original line of thought was to retrain them as fighters through the winter. (When supposedly they're not exactly used anyhow).



GibsonPete -> RE: Tomorrow, and tomorrow and tomorrow Axis (HLYA) vs Guctony (Soviet) (9/19/2021 3:28:57 PM)

Your turn one air use is interesting. Much more successful than anything I have accomplished. I will have to go back and run some playtests. I am curious about your other 'tactic' you hint at.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Tomorrow, and tomorrow and tomorrow Axis (HLYA) vs Guctony (Soviet) (9/19/2021 3:30:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AlbertN

Given atm bombing post T1 is highly inefficient but in '41 to have some bombers that can survive without getting minced if unescorted & intercepted by shoddy Soviet planes is not a bad thing.
Presently certainly they're useless as bombers - but assuming that will get a 'fix' somewhen in the future my original line of thought was to retrain them as fighters through the winter. (When supposedly they're not exactly used anyhow).


Ya, not getting intercepted was a very nice element that I discovered. I did not see anywhere else on the forums where people mentioned it so I shared it. The night bombing on the first turn(the twist) is really neat too. Hope to have that figured out for my next game in the future.

I should be able to get over 4,000 planes for the first turn when all said and done. As for the BF-110's I use them to replace the 109's that are supposed to go to Western Europe. So the sooner they convert the better for me. The BF-110's probably would have been able to add another 100-250 Soviet Aircraft destroyed on the ground is my estimation.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Tomorrow, and tomorrow and tomorrow Axis (HLYA) vs Guctony (Soviet) (9/19/2021 3:34:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GibsonPete

Your turn one air use is interesting. Much more successful than anything I have accomplished. I will have to go back and run some playtests. I am curious about your other 'tactic' you hint at.


If you take out the Hungarian & Rumanian losses and the Stuka losses (which are crazy high) you will see I lost only 20 level bombers. Stuka losses are crazy high at 7 alone :(

The "Twist" is bombing at night on the first turn. I have been playing around with it for awhile now but just can't get it right :( But is showing really good promise.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Tomorrow, and tomorrow and tomorrow Axis (HLYA) vs Guctony (Soviet) (9/19/2021 11:08:31 PM)

Turn 1

Air Phase

Here were my Air Directives for bombing if you want to try them out. Please note that you may want to put 109's with the Stukas since they can get murdered. I took the off chance they would not get intercepted. Good luck and let me know how it turns out in your tests.

Picture 1 of 3

[image]local://upfiles/53556/67BA787F72C64A5D995A675DBC3A90FB.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Tomorrow, and tomorrow and tomorrow Axis (HLYA) vs Guctony (Soviet) (9/19/2021 11:08:57 PM)

Turn 1

Air Phase



Picture 2 of 3

[image]local://upfiles/53556/B326D77D254A4E17B7D0ECB748C8E23B.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Tomorrow, and tomorrow and tomorrow Axis (HLYA) vs Guctony (Soviet) (9/19/2021 11:09:39 PM)

Turn 1

Air Phase


Picture 3 of 3

[image]local://upfiles/53556/4EE8E0D5BAEF41DCBA542B33D1C204F7.jpg[/image]



carlkay58 -> RE: Tomorrow, and tomorrow and tomorrow Axis (HLYA) vs Guctony (Soviet) (9/19/2021 11:59:32 PM)

The Stukas are dive bombers and must reach the airspace at over 8000 in order to use their dive bombing bonuses. So your Stukas were level bombing and sitting ducks for the AAA.



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