RE: IDEA/PROPOSAL: Community creation/review of unit description (Full Version)

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CV60 -> RE: IDEA/PROPOSAL: Community creation/review of unit description (12/28/2021 9:35:13 PM)

quote:

For the .DJVU manual you can convert this file to pdf via for example: https://converter.app/djvu-to-pdf/convert.php

I did it but the file is too large to attach.
Good luck
Thanks! I'll give it a go




CV60 -> RE: IDEA/PROPOSAL: Community creation/review of unit description (12/28/2021 10:21:24 PM)

DRAFT SPO-15 Beryoza aka L-006 RWR for community review. Surprisingly, the reported frequency of this system may be narrower than the SPO-10 or SPO-3, based on the machine-translated advertising brochure attached to this post.


OVERVIEW: The SPO-15 Beryoza aka L-006 airborne radar warning receiver (RWR) is a passive airborne sensor that detects and warns aircrew of hostile radars.

DETAILS:
The SPO-15 Beryoza used three or four antenna installed on different quadrants of an aircraft to locate threat radars that were "painting" the aircraft. The system provides warning of threat radars in 360° (azimuth) and ±30° (elevation) around the aircraft The system then provided the aircrew with an audible alert and a visual threat axis. Unlike earlier generations of RWR, it is capable of detecting pulse doppler radar and frequency agile radars. The SPO-15M is capable of automatic chaff dispensing.


Specifications:

Frequency: 4.4-10.3 Ghz
Accuracy: ± 10°


NOTES: IOC 1978 (approx).


SOURCES: Mladenov, Alexander. Soviet Cold War Fighters. Fonthill Media, 2017, (Kindel ed., locations 4269; International Electronic Countermeasures Handbook, 2004 "SPQ-15 Beryoza." pg. 77. ; Friedman, Norman. The Naval Institute Guide to World Naval Weapons Systems, 1997-1998. Annapolis, MD: Naval Inst Press, 1997, pg.pg. 516

[image]local://upfiles/43164/A933E45510B64EDEA45A531A538A8D9C.jpg[/image]




CV60 -> RE: IDEA/PROPOSAL: Community creation/review of unit description (12/29/2021 10:01:03 PM)

DRAFT Kub-3M description for comment

OVERVIEW: The Kub-3M aka KOOB-3 aka SRA-10 is an airborne ELINT system receiving in the centimetric (3-30 Ghz) waveband.

DETAILS:
The Kub could capture pulsed and CW radar emissions up to a 450 km away. However, there was a dead zone of 45 km right below the aircraft. The system could relay via a data link to a ground station while in flight.

Specifications:

Frequency: 3-30 Ghz
Accuracy: 2-10 km


NOTES:


SOURCES: Burdin, Sergey. Tupolev TU-22. Barnsley: Pen and Sword, 2005. ;
"3.4 Reconnaissance and Electronic Warfare." Etoiles Rouges Sur L'Allemagne. Accessed December 29, 2021. https://www.16va.be/3.4_la_reco_part5_eng.html.;"[1.0] MiG-25 Foxbat." AirVectors. Accessed December 28, 2021. https://www.airvectors.net/avmig25_1.html. ; "MiG-25RB (product 02B; «FoxBat – B»)." Испытатели. Accessed December 29, 2021. https://testpilot.ru/en/rossiya-e/mikoyan/mig25rb/.




Parel803 -> RE: IDEA/PROPOSAL: Community creation/review of unit description (1/3/2022 6:34:57 PM)

#1022 - F 134 Laksamana Hang Nadim (Malaysia - 1998)

OVERVIEW: The Laksamana Hang Nadim missile corvet class having 4 MTU diesels with 4 shafts. Equiped with Otomat mark2/Teseo ASM (Anti-Ship Missile) and Albatros MBDA for PDMS (Point Defense Missile System).

DETAILS: 4 MTU TB92 diesels with 126 tons of fuel. There is a crane to launch the small RHIB (Rigid-Hulled Inflatable Boat). the crew can vary between 47 and 56 pax.
Sensors are the RAN12L/X Air&Surf search radar, KH navigation radar, for Fire and weapon Control RTN-10X, RTN-20X, Selenia NA21 radars and 3 CO3 EO directors. ASO84-41 hull-mounted sonar and the INS-3B ESM system. There weapon fit is 6 Ota Melara/Matra Otomat Teseo Mk 2 ASM, 1 x 4 Albatros SAM (Surface to Air Missile)(6 Aspide), 76mm/62 OTO-Melara Compact, 1 twin 40mm/70 OTO-Breda Compact, 2 triple 324mm ILAS TT (Torpedo Tubes) for A244s torpedoes. For ECM 2x Breda 105mm 6-tybed decoy launchers and Selenia TQN-2 jammer.

SPECIFICATIONS:
Displacement: 705 tons (full), .. tons (standard)
Speed: 36 kts (max)
Engineering: 4 MTU 20V 956 TB92 diesels, 20120 hp(m) (14.8MW) sustained. 4 Shafts
Range: 2300 nm @ 18 kts, 1200 nm @ 31 kts
Complement: 47 pax (56 pax max)

NOTES:
- Build for Iraq but after refit in 1996 sold to Malaysia, due to UN sanctions. Upgraded in 2003/2004 with new CMS (IPN) including Link-Y and TQN-5 & Nettuno 1400 ECM suite. The TT are later removed, confirmed by images.

SOURCES: JFS 2015-2016;
"LAKSAMANA HANG NADIM (F-134) class". Miltary Periscope. July 2011. file:///J:/Documentation_PlatformInfo/Books%20MilPerisc2018/weapons/ships/frigatescorvettes-small-combatants/laksamana-hang-nadim-f-134-class.html;
"LAKSAMANA HANG NADIM missile corvettes (1987/1997-1999)". Navypedia. 2019. https://navypedia.org/ships/malaysia/mal_es_laksamana_hang_nadim.htm;
"Laksamana Class Missile Corvette". Naval-Technology. 03-05-2001. https://www.naval-technology.com/projects/laksamana/;

regards GJ




Parel803 -> RE: IDEA/PROPOSAL: Community creation/review of unit description (1/7/2022 6:53:32 PM)

#1031 - F 30 Lekiu (Malaysia - 2000)

OVERVIEW: The Lekiu Guided missile Frigates has four diesel engins and two shats with cp props.

DETAILS: 4 MTU 1163 TB93 diesels, the hull and superstructure are design to reduce RCS (Radar Cross-Section) signature. They have two RHID's over starboard side with one crane. The Lekiu class has a hanger and helicopter spot for a Super Lynx.
There Radars in the sensor fit are DA-08 for Air-search, the Sea Giraffe for Surface-search, two FC (Fire-Control) Marconi 1802 and a Racal Dezza for navigation. The other sensors are a Thomson Sintra Spherion Hull-mounted sonar, AEG Telefunken/Marconi Mentor-A ESM (Electronic Support Measures) interceptor and for EO Radamec 2400 optronic weapon director, V3901 EO (Electro-Optical).
The weapon fit of the Lekiu class consists of 8x MM-40 block II Exocet SSM (Surface to Surface Missile), 16x Seawolf SAM (Surface to Air Missile). Guns are 1 Bofors 57mm/70 SAK Mk2, 2x MSI 30mm/75 DS30B and 2x 12.7mm/90 MG's. Also 6x (2 triple) B515 324mm TT (Torpedo tubes) for Marconi Stingray torpedo's, 2x Super Barricade 12 barrelled launchers for chaff, Scimitar ECM suite and the Graseby Sea Siren torpedo decoy.

SPECIFICATIONS:
Displacement: 2390 tons (full), 1845 tons (standard)
Speed: 28 kts (max)
Engineering: CODAD (Combined Diesel And Diesel); 4 MTU 20V 1163 TB93 diesels; 33,300 hp(m) (24,5 MW) sustained; 2 shafts; Kamewa cp (Controllable Pitch) props
Range: 5000 nm @ 14 kts
Endurance: .. days
Complement: 146 pax

NOTES:
The class name giver, Lekiu, is higest number in class. The update in 2015 included Scanter 6000 as replacement for there navigation and helicopter control radar. Thales Vigile 100 Mk2 ESM and a Chess Dynamic Sea Eagle FCEO.

SOURCES: JFS 2015/2016; MP Jul 2011;
"Lekiu Class Frigates". Naval-Technology. 03-05-2001. https://www.naval-technology.com/projects/lekiu/;
"JEBAT frigates (1999)". Navypedia. 2019. https://navypedia.org/ships/malaysia/mal_es_jebat.htm;
Royal Malaysian Navy Selects Terma SCANTER Radar for LEKIU-class Frigates "" . Defense Studies. 22-10-2016. https://defense-studies.blogspot.com/2016/10/royal-malaysian-navy-selects-terma.html

regards GJ




CV60 -> RE: IDEA/PROPOSAL: Community creation/review of unit description (1/7/2022 8:43:55 PM)

EDITED: MiG-23F-13 for community Comment.

OVERVIEW: The MiG-21F-13 Fishbed C is a single seat, single engine, short-range, daytime/clear-weather, Mach 2.0, 2nd generation point defense interceptor. It also had a secondary ground attack capability.

DETAILS: The MiG-21F-13 Fishbed C is a delta wing design, with a circular air intake and a automatically-adjusted moveable intake cone in the nose. This design gave it excellent climbing characteristics. However, it limited the MiG-21 as a dogfighter, as any turning combat led to a rapid loss of speed. Additionally, the small space available for radar limited its ability as a fighter for anything beyond close-range combat. It was further hampered as a fighter by a short range, and the poor placement of the fuel tanks ahead of the center of gravity, making the aircraft unstable as fuel was consumed. Consequentially, a "clean" Fishbed C had an effective endurance of only 45 minutes. It's engine also suffered from fuel starvation issues in ACM engagements with less than half of its fuel remaining. The pilot also had a poor visibility, further limiting its use in ACM. The MiG-21 also had maneuvering problems at all altitudes when the airspeed is below 215 KIAS and above 510 KIAS. At low speeds, the aircraft may become uncontrollable, and at high speeds longitudinal stick forces become extremely heavy. Because of this various limitations, The Soviets considered GCI essential to the use of the MIG-21 for effective attack, usually attempting to vector the aircraft to approximately a 20-degree angle from the rear of the target.

The Fishbed had some positive combat characteristics. It's high thrust to weight ratio allowed it to quickly accelerate from low and medium airspeeds. It was also sturdy, reliable, and easy to maintain, and its unsophisticated design increased its combat survivability.

The aircraft was powered by a Tumansky R-11F-300 turbojet engine, producing 12675 lb of thrust. The design cruising speed is 478 knots.

The Fishbed C was armed with two rear-aspect only R-3S/AA-2 ATOLL IR missiles and an internal 30mm cannon and 30 rounds of ammunition. Its radar was the short range SRD-5M Kvant (Quantum) ranging radar.


NOTES: IOC: 1961. An estimated +8,000 MiG-21s built, the most of any modern jet aircraft.


SOURCE: Mladenov, Alexander. Soviet Cold War Fighters. Fonthill Media, 2017, (Kindel ed., locations 1492; "[1.0] MiG-21 Single-Seat Variants." AirVectors. Accessed January 7, 2022. https://www.airvectors.net/avmig21_1.html#m2. ; "The MiG-21 Page - Performance Data." Imprimante Si Copiatoare, Produse IT: Xerox, Brother, Cisco, Microsoft - Top Edge Engineering. Accessed January 7, 2022. https://www.topedge.com/panels/aircraft/sites/kraft/data.htm. ; Images, Skytamer. "Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21F-13 Fishbed E." Accessed January 8, 2022. https://www.skytamer.com/MiG-21F-13.html ; Pike, John. "MiG-21 / J-7 FISHBED / YF-110." GlobalSecurity.org. Last modified 10, 2021. https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/mig-21.htm.




PN79 -> RE: IDEA/PROPOSAL: Community creation/review of unit description (1/8/2022 11:25:35 AM)

I know that some sources says that 30mm gun in MiG-21F-13 carries just 30 rounds.

But I believe that this is wrong and that correct capacity is 60 rounds. Firstly 60 rounds are mentioned in US assesment based on captured example and also czech sources repeatedly stress 60 rounds capacity. The 30 rounds were mentioned in one czech source as half capacity used as standard for live firing trainig.




CV60 -> RE: IDEA/PROPOSAL: Community creation/review of unit description (1/8/2022 1:02:16 PM)

quote:

I know that some sources says that 30mm gun in MiG-21F-13 carries just 30 rounds.

But I believe that this is wrong and that correct capacity is 60 rounds. Firstly 60 rounds are mentioned in US assesment based on captured example and also czech sources repeatedly stress 60 rounds capacity. The 30 rounds were mentioned in one czech source as half capacity used as standard for live firing training.

< Message edited by PN79 -- 1/8/2022 11:26:15 AM >


The MiG-21 had so many variations that it does become confusion which one has what. However, the sources I am seeing are claiming the MiG-21F-13/FISHBED C had 30 rounds for the single 30mm cannon. See https://www.skytamer.com/MiG-21F-13.html; Mladenov, Alexander. Soviet Cold War Fighters. Fonthill Media, 2017, (Kindel ed., locations 1492; Possibly there is some confusion, as the first production model MiG-21/FISHBED C had 2-30mm cannons with 60 rounds each? Can you link to your sources or post them? I'd be happy to make a change and also request a database change.




PN79 -> RE: IDEA/PROPOSAL: Community creation/review of unit description (1/8/2022 2:59:34 PM)

I cannot rule out that some MiG-21F-13 were built with just 30 rounds capacity as more factories were building them and there were different changes during production.

Here is US evaluation of captured example and on page 22 (1-6) it clearly says one cannon with 60 rounds:
https://theaviationist.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/havedoughnut.pdf

This german page also says 60 rounds: https://www.mig-21-online.de/lsk-lv/mig-21-f-13/

Thing is back in 1990s information available about MiG-21F-13 were consistent that capacity is 60 rounds. Then new information come in that it is 30 rounds and since that it is copied without clear explanation where that difference originated.

It is said that original basic MiG-21F had two cannons with 60 rounds - thing is according to czech sources whole 60 round belt goes to the other side - i.e. one canon was removed but place for rounds stayed unchanged.




CV60 -> RE: IDEA/PROPOSAL: Community creation/review of unit description (1/8/2022 5:12:46 PM)

quote:

I cannot rule out that some MiG-21F-13 were built with just 30 rounds capacity as more factories were building them and there were different changes during production.

Here is US evaluation of captured example and on page 22 (1-6) it clearly says one cannon with 60 rounds:
https://theaviationist.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/havedoughnut.pdf

This german page also says 60 rounds: https://www.mig-21-online.de/lsk-lv/mig-21-f-13/

Thing is back in 1990s information available about MiG-21F-13 were consistent that capacity is 60 rounds. Then new information come in that it is 30 rounds and since that it is copied without clear explanation where that difference originated.

It is said that original basic MiG-21F had two cannons with 60 rounds - thing is according to czech sources whole 60 round belt goes to the other side - i.e. one canon was removed but place for rounds stayed unchanged.


Thanks for providing the HAVE DOUGHNUT document. I was unaware it had been published. You are right, it clearly states that the Iraqi MiG-21F-13 that was tested had a 60 round gun capacity. I'm wondering if this is a reflection of the fact it was an Iraqi MiG-21? They were using them against the Kurds in a anti-ground role at the time, so possibly they modified the aircraft for additional capacity. The MiG-21 that was tested was a late production model (1963), so possibly this was a subsequent modification for export? The various sources I'm seeing, including reliable Russian ones are pretty clear about the 30 round capacity




PN79 -> RE: IDEA/PROPOSAL: Community creation/review of unit description (1/8/2022 6:20:44 PM)

Searching through Google shows other discussions about this. One mentioned information says that first series of MiG-21F-13 had one gun with just 30 rounds after removal of the second gun for making space for blocks connected with missile usage and that only later series used free space for rounds from removed second gun by connecting it with first gun and getting 60 rounds capacity in total.

Anyway I can clearly say that czechoslovak produced had 60 rounds capacity.




CV60 -> RE: IDEA/PROPOSAL: Community creation/review of unit description (1/8/2022 8:07:03 PM)

quote:

Searching through Google shows other discussions about this. One mentioned information says that first series of MiG-21F-13 had one gun with just 30 rounds after removal of the second gun for making space for blocks connected with missile usage and that only later series used free space for rounds from removed second gun by connecting it with first gun and getting 60 rounds capacity in total.

Anyway I can clearly say that czechoslovak produced had 60 rounds capacity.

I think I'm going to split the baby. It is clear the Iraqi Mig-21 had 60 rounds, and the Czech versions did also, so I think it is fair to say that late model MiG-21F-13 had 60 rounds, whether from the factory or via a field modification. Certainly, having only 30 rounds would be a major disadvantage in combat, especially in an aircraft that was capable of only engaging in short range gun and missile combat. Because of this, it is likely the gun capacity issue would have been fixed, so that any aircraft in the DB3000 database should have 60 rounds. I'll note the dispute in my description file, and recommend a database change for the DB3000 series.




CV60 -> RE: IDEA/PROPOSAL: Community creation/review of unit description (1/8/2022 9:40:38 PM)

Revised MiG-21F-13 for comment

OVERVIEW: The MiG-21F-13 Fishbed C is a single seat, single engine, short-range, daytime/clear-weather, Mach 2.0, 2nd generation point defense interceptor. It also had a secondary ground attack capability.

DETAILS: The MiG-21F-13 Fishbed C is a delta wing design, with a circular air intake and a automatically-adjusted moveable intake cone in the nose. This design gave it excellent climbing characteristics. However, it limited the MiG-21 as a dogfighter, as any turning combat led to a rapid loss of speed. Additionally, the small space available for radar limited its ability as a fighter for anything beyond close-range combat. It was further hampered as a fighter by a short range, and the poor placement of the fuel tanks ahead of the center of gravity, making the aircraft unstable as fuel was consumed. Consequentially, a "clean" Fishbed C had an effective endurance of only 45 minutes. It's engine also suffered from fuel starvation issues in ACM engagements with less than half of its fuel remaining. The pilot also had a poor visibility forward and rearward, further limiting its use in ACM. Although it was capable of 8 G maneuvering while clean, it was limited to 6 Gs when loaded. The gunsight was incapable of tracking a target maneuvering at more than 3Gs. The MiG-21 also had maneuvering problems at all altitudes when the airspeed is below 215 KIAS and above 510 KIAS. At low speeds, the aircraft may become uncontrollable, and at high speeds longitudinal stick forces become extremely heavy. Extreme buffeting made it incapable of reaching Mach 1 below 15,000 feet. Because of this various limitations, the Soviets considered GCI essential to the use of the MIG-21 for effective attack, usually attempting to vector the aircraft to approximately a 20-degree angle from the rear of the target, and making a single high speed pass before disengaging.

The Fishbed had some positive combat characteristics. It's high thrust to weight ratio allowed it to quickly accelerate from low and medium airspeeds, although this was largely mitigated by very slow engine throttle response. Although the Fishbed bled energy in a turn, it also had a smaller turn radius than most contemporaneous U.S. fighters. It was also sturdy, reliable, and easy to maintain, and its unsophisticated design increased its combat survivability.

The aircraft was powered by a Tumansky R-11F-300 turbojet engine, producing 12675 lb of thrust. The design cruising speed is 478 knots.

The Fishbed C was armed with two rear-aspect only R-3S/AA-2 ATOLL IR missiles and an internal 30mm cannon and 60 rounds of ammunition. Its radar was the short-range SRD-5M Kvant (Quantum) ranging radar to help target its weapons.


NOTES: IOC: 1961. An estimated +10,000 MiG-21s built, the most of any modern jet aircraft. Some sources give 30 round capacity for the 30mm cannon.


SOURCE: Mladenov, Alexander. Soviet Cold War Fighters. Fonthill Media, 2017, (Kindel ed., locations 1492; "[1.0] MiG-21 Single-Seat Variants." AirVectors. Accessed January 7, 2022. https://www.airvectors.net/avmig21_1.html#m2. ; "The MiG-21 Page - Performance Data." Imprimante Si Copiatoare, Produse IT: Xerox, Brother, Cisco, Microsoft - Top Edge Engineering. Accessed January 7, 2022. https://www.topedge.com/panels/aircraft/sites/kraft/data.htm. ; Images, Skytamer. "Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21F-13 Fishbed E." Accessed January 8, 2022. https://www.skytamer.com/MiG-21F-13.html ; Pike, John. "MiG-21 / J-7 FISHBED / YF-110." GlobalSecurity.org. Last modified 10, 2021. https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/mig-21.htm; DIA, HAVE DOUGHNUT(U)-TACTICAL, FTD-CR-20-13-69 Vol. II (1 August 1969), pgs 1-6 to 1-7. https://theaviationist.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/havedoughnut.pdf




Parel803 -> RE: IDEA/PROPOSAL: Community creation/review of unit description (1/9/2022 11:49:34 AM)

#3019 - 331 Martadinata [Sigma 10514] (Indonesia - 2018)

OVERVIEW: The Martadinata guided-missile class Frigate is based on the SIGMA 10514 to perform various missions, including deterrence, maritime security, anti-surface, and electronic and anti-air warfare. they have CODOE (Combined Diesel or Electric) propulsion and 2 shafts with 3.55m CP (Controllabel Pitch)

DETAILS: The Martadinata class Frigates are designed to perform various missions, including patrolling the exclusive economic zone (EEZ) of Indonesia, deterrence, maritime security, search-and-rescue, anti-surface, and electronic and anti-air warfare also used for humanitarian support tasks. The CODOE (Combined Diesel or Electric) propulsion consists of two 10,000kW maximum continuous rating (MCR) diesel engines, two 1,300kW electric motors, two double input / single output gearboxes, and two 3.55m controllable pitch propellers. The three position for RAS (Replaenishment At Sea) are SB/Port side and astern. The hanger can acommadate a 6 ton helicopter and the helicopter deck is suitable for a 10 ton helicopter including refueling. 2 RHIB's (Rigged-Hulled Inflatable Boat), launched with the two cranes, one on each side. The Crew are 100 pax with the possibility to go up to 120 for extra personel.
There sensor-fit for RADAR is the SMART-S Mk2 3D Air/Surface surveillance radar, Bridgemaster navigation radar. The other sensors are STIR 1.2 Mk2 FC EO, UMS4132 Kingklip SONAR, DR3000 ESM system. There also fitted with the LINK-Y system. The Martidinata class frigates have 2x2 MM40 Exocet SSM, 12x VL MICA SRSAM, 1 single 76mm/62 Oto-Melara Compact SR gun, 1 CIWS Rheinmetall Milennium 35mm/90, 2x3 324 B515 Torpedo tubes and for ECM the Scorpion-2L Suites with Terma SKWS chaff & Flare decoys,

SPECIFICATIONS:
Displacement: 2365 tons (full), .. tons (standard)
Speed: 28 kts (max)
Engineering: 2 SEMT-Pielstick 20PA6BSTC diesels, 2 shafts with CP. Plus 2 1300 kW electric propulsion motors
Range: 4800 nm @ 14 kts
Endurance: >20 days
Complement: 100 pax with 20 spare

SOURCES: "RADEN EDDY MARTADINATA frigates (2017-)". Navypedia. 2019. https://navypedia.org/ships/indonesia/ino_es_raden_eddy_martadinata.htm;
"SIGMA 10514 “PERUSAK KAWAL RUDAL” FRIGATE". DSNS. -. https://products.damen.com/-/media/products/images/clusters-groups/naval/sigma-frigate/sigma-frigate-10514/docs/product_sheet_damen_sigma_frigate_10514_02_2017.pdf?la=en&rev=488ea5e1b855497a926058f8f3c7ba20;
"SIGMA 10514 Guided Missile Frigate". GlobalSecurity. 19-03-2019. https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/indonesia/kri-pkr-sigma-specs.htm;
"SIGMA 10514 PKR Guided-Missile Frigates". NavalTechnology. 30-01-2017. https://www.naval-technology.com/projects/sigma-10514-pkr-guided-missile-frigates/;

regards GJ




Parel803 -> RE: IDEA/PROPOSAL: Community creation/review of unit description (2/5/2022 11:36:47 AM)

#1562 - 357 Bung Tomo [Nakhoda Ragam, F2000] (Indonesia - 2015)

OVERVIEW: The bung Tomo class are guided missile Corvettes mainly used for offshore patrols to protect the EEZ (Exclusive Economic Zone). Powered by for diesels with two shafts and armed the Excot MM40 SSM.

DETAILS:
4 Diesels MAN 20RK270 with ocmbined power output of 40500 shp. Two shafts with controllable pitch.
This class has no Hanger but do have a helicopter platform for medium sized helo's like the AS565 Panther. Crew consists of 79 pax with 24 spare berths. A RHIB (Rigid-Hulled Inflatable Boat) on both sides, launched by crane.
There weapon fit is 8x MM40 Exocet SSM (Surface-to-Surface Missile), 1 single Otobreda 76mm/L62 Super Rapid gun, 2x DS30M 30mm AA gun, 2x triple Marconi 324mm torpedo tubes and for EW 2x Super Barricade chaff launcher and the Thales Scorpion jammer. Sensor-fit is AWS-9 Air/Surface search radar, KH1007 navigation radar, SCOUT FMCW LPI radar, Marconi 1802 FC (Fire Control) radars, hull-mounted 4130C1 sonar, Radamec 2500 EO director and for EW the Thales Cutlass242 RESM and the Falcon DS300 CESM.

SPECIFICATIONS:
Displacement: 2000 tons (full), 1500 tons (standard)
Speed: 30 kts (max)
Engineering: CODAD (Combined Diesel And Diesel) 4 MAN-B&W 20RK270. 2 shafts, CP Props (Controllable Pitch)
Range: 5000 nm @ 12 kts
Endurance: 14 days
Complement: 79 pax with 24 spare

NOTES: Originally built for Brunei. Sources state an update for the class in 2023 ready for the first unit. Planned update consists of SMART-S Mk2 3D radar, STIR 1.2 EO Mk2 radars, Vigile Mk2 ESM, Link-Y and TACTICOS CMS and for weapons the VL-MICA SAM.

SOURCES: JFS15/16;
"BUNG TOMO frigates (2003-2004/2014)". Navpedia. 2019. https://navypedia.org/ships/indonesia/ino_es_bung_tomo.htm;
"Bung Tomo class". Military-today. - . https://www.military-today.com/navy/bung_tomo_class.htm;
"Indonesian Navy to Upgrade Multi-Role Corvette". MilitaryLeaks. - . https://militaryleak.com/2020/09/03/indonesian-navy-to-upgrade-multi-role-corvette;
"Bung Tomo Class Corvettes Indonesia". PakistanDefenceForum. 18-04-2016. https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/bung-tomo-class-corvettes-indonesia.427341

regards GJ

sorry did this one for the second time




ClaudeJ -> RE: IDEA/PROPOSAL: Community creation/review of unit description (2/5/2022 2:03:28 PM)

Hey there,

out of curiosity, what does it bring you having some specifications written in the description while the actual ingame specification appear just below in the database viewer ?

What I feel is the most useful is the intended usage of the platform such as "The bung Tomo class are guided missile Corvettes mainly used for offshore patrols to protect the EEZ (Exclusive Economic Zone)." eg. or "a single seat, single engine, short-range, daytime/clear-weather, Mach 2.0, 2nd generation point defense interceptor. It also had a secondary ground attack capability."




CV60 -> RE: IDEA/PROPOSAL: Community creation/review of unit description (2/5/2022 5:45:23 PM)

quote:

Hey there,

out of curiosity, what does it bring you having some specifications written in the description while the actual ingame specification appear just below in the database viewer ?

What I feel is the most useful is the intended usage of the platform such as "The bung Tomo class are guided missile Corvettes mainly used for offshore patrols to protect the EEZ (Exclusive Economic Zone)." eg. or "a single seat, single engine, short-range, daytime/clear-weather, Mach 2.0, 2nd generation point defense interceptor. It also had a secondary ground attack capability."


We try to include mostly a description of what the platform is and how it is used. However, we do include some specifications because 1) it is frequently difficult to find some of the precise info in the shear mass of info that is in the DB viewer and 2) The information we include in the specifications is frequently a good short-hand for describing the capabilities of the system. Also, some of the information we include is not included in the database, but may be of general interest.

So, for example we begin with an 1-2 sentence "Overview" which gives an extremely condensed description of the platform. In the "Details", we go into a little more information about the use of the platform and possible limitations. In the "Specifications", we include some (not all) of the more relevant specs in a relatively consistent, easy to find format. (we also double check the database while writing this). Next, we have the "Notes" section which gives "nice to know" information. Finally, we include references to back up the description.

Finally, this standardized format allows a player to quickly check what he is looking for. Because it is a standard format, he knows where to look to find the information he is interested in.




ClaudeJ -> RE: IDEA/PROPOSAL: Community creation/review of unit description (2/5/2022 7:26:13 PM)

Thanks for the clarification, Steven. I do better understand your design philosophy there.

Playing a few scenarios with various platforms I wasn't very familiar with recently, I was quite puzzled to read figures in the description that wasn't matching the DB entry's specs it was describing. I'll write down specific cases to be brought to your attention when I'll encounter them again.

That said, I really enjoy having the descriptions around, and I salute the work you do put curating them since all these years.




CV60 -> RE: IDEA/PROPOSAL: Community creation/review of unit description (2/5/2022 9:47:34 PM)

quote:

Thanks for the clarification, Steven. I do better understand your design philosophy there.

Playing a few scenarios with various platforms I wasn't very familiar with recently, I was quite puzzled to read figures in the description that wasn't matching the DB entry's specs it was describing. I'll write down specific cases to be brought to your attention when I'll encounter them again.

That said, I really enjoy having the descriptions around, and I salute the work you do put curating them since all these years.


I'm glad you enjoy the descriptions. We have a team working on them (its not just me), and we are always looking for more help. If you see any systems you want to do an entry on, just post it in this page, using the format and I'll put it in the next update.

Sometimes there is a difference between what we put in, and what the DB has. One of the reasons we do the descriptions is to double check the database. Frequently, it is the database that needs to be updated (which is no surprise given its size and the fact that new information about systems is constantly coming out). In those cases here there is a difference, I put in a request to update the database. However, I don't alter what the description file says to comport with the database, as I am including my sources with the description files, and my information is generally based on the most up to date unclassified information publicly available (at least in English). With that said, if you notice any errors in the description files, please let me know, and I'll be happy to correct them.

ALso, we will be releasing an updated image and description file set soon (in the next 30 days or so).




ClaudeJ -> RE: IDEA/PROPOSAL: Community creation/review of unit description (2/6/2022 6:42:37 AM)

Hey there,

on a fresh CMO and Descriptions install, it seems that the following DB3000 items have an MIM-23 HAWK description set for them :

Weapon_65 RIM-66A SM-1MR Blk IV ASuW
Weapon_466 GBU-24/B Paveway III LGB [BPG-2000 PGM, CPE-800 Penetrator]
Weapon_494 100mm/59 A-190 HE
Weapon_657 RIM-66L-2 SM-2MR Blk IIIA
Weapon_658 RIM-66L-1 SM-2MR Blk III
Weapon_659 RIM-66J SM-2MR Blk II
Weapon_660 RIM-66H SM-2MR Blk II
Weapon_668 20mm GAM-BO1 Oerlikon Burst [20 rnds]
Weapon_671 SS.12
Weapon_672 Red Top
Weapon_674 R.440N Crotale V3S
Weapon_675 R.440N Crotale V3N
Weapon_679 57mm/81 ZIF-75 Quad DP Burst [6 rnds]
Weapon_681 Aster 30 Blk 1
Weapon_685 120mm M256 HE
Weapon_686 120mm M256 HEAT
Weapon_688 120mm M256 APFSDS-T
Weapon_691 105mm M68A1 HE
Weapon_692 BGM-71A TOW
Weapon_697 125mm HEAT
Weapon_699 SA-N-20a Gargoyle [48N6]
Weapon_708 F17P Mod 2
Weapon_710 Mk37 Mod 2
Weapon_711 Mk37 Mod 1
Weapon_716 CBU-58A/B CB [650 x BLU-63/B Frag Bomblets]
Weapon_718 AIM-120C-7 AMRAAM P3I.3
Weapon_719 ASMP-A [300kT Nuclear]
Weapon_733 AIM-92E Stinger ATAS RPM Blk I
Weapon_734 FIM-92D Stinger RMP
Weapon_739 AIM-92C Stinger ATAS RPM
Weapon_743 FIM-92C Stinger RMP
Weapon_745 40mm/70 Twin Breda Vesta Fast Forty Burst [32 rnds]
Weapon_749 37mm/63 Single Burst [20 rnds]
Weapon_750 Commando
Weapon_788 100mm/55 Model 1953 PFHE
Weapon_793 Elma ASW-600 ASW Mortar Salvo [M90 Hard Kill DC, 9 rnds]
Weapon_802 CBU-97/B SFW [10 x BLU-108/B Anti-Tank Bomblets]
Weapon_815 BGM-71F TOW 2B
Weapon_817 500 USG Conformal Tank
Weapon_2237 Condib 120


Also, the following weapons appear not to be in the DB3000 (anymore?):

Weapon_608
Weapon_690
Weapon_703
Weapon_704
Weapon_706
Weapon_805
Weapon_806





Parel803 -> RE: IDEA/PROPOSAL: Community creation/review of unit description (2/6/2022 11:18:23 AM)

#2367 - 365 Diponegoro [Sigma 9113] (Indonesia - 2008)

OVERVIEW: The Diponegro is the Sigma 9113 Multi-Purpose Guided Missile Corvette equipped with MM40 Exocet. This class is used to protect the EEZ for Maritime Deterrence, ASW, SAR and other duties like peace-keeping, antipiracy, counter smuggling and fisheries patrols.

DETAILS:
The SIGMA-class corvettes are powered by two SEMT Pielstick diesel engines driving two controllable pitch propellers via two shafts. Each engine delivers a maximum power output of 8,910kW. The corvettes also integrate passive roll stabilisation system. Two RHIB's, one on each side, lauched with a crane. The helicopter deck can hold helicopteors up to 5 tons with the ability to refuel but no hanger.
There Weapon-fit consists of 4x MM-40 Exocet SSM, 2x4 MBDA Mistral SR-SAM, 1 Oto-Melara 76mm/62 (3in) SuperRapid gun, Giat 20mm/90 AA-gun, 2x3 324mm torpedo tubes with A244-S torpedo and for EW 2x Terma SKWS 130mm launchers and the Thales Scorpion jammer. For sensors they have the MW-08 3D surveillance radar, Bridgemaster navigation radar, Lirod FC radars (+EO), Kingklip hull-mounted sonar and for ESM the DR-3000

SPECIFICATIONS:
Displacement: 1719 tons (full)
Speed: 28 kts (max)
Engineering: 2x SEMT Pielstick 20PA6B diesels. 2 shafts with cp props. 4 Caterpillar 3460C dieses generators.
Range: 4000 nm @ 18 kts, 4800 nm @ 14 kts
Complement: 80 pax

SOURCES: MilPer update Mar2011; JFS15/16;
"DIPONEGORO corvettes (2007-2009)". Navpedia. 2019. https://navypedia.org/ships/indonesia/ino_es_diponegoro.htm;
"SIGMA-Class Corvettes". naval-technology. 28-02-2014. https://www.naval-technology.com/projects/sigma-class-corvettes;
"Diponegoro class / Sigma class Corvette". GlobalSecurity. 11-09-2013. https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/indonesia/kri-diponegoro.htm;

regards GJ

If it is helpfull I can check differences with current DB. Saw the entry from Claude and realized I didn't really check. Extra complex is sometimes that different sources have different data :-), intell weigth on the source. So the DB manager might have different sources that might cause my inconsistency. Just let me know.
- Displacement full (JFS15/16)
- Speed max (JFS15/16)
- 4 diesel generators (MilPer)
- One source mention different torpedo: Eurotorp Mu-90 (JFS15/16)
- ?Missing RHIB's




ClaudeJ -> RE: IDEA/PROPOSAL: Community creation/review of unit description (2/11/2022 2:14:17 PM)

Hey there,

minor issues here :

- in DB3k, the aircraft #1305 Tu-22RDK Blinder C have a MiG-23ML description.


- in CWDB, the weapon #445 AS.20 have an R-98MR AA-3 description.

[image]local://upfiles/20124/ABBA90B1F4F54A7DB1F2B5E56201ECB0.jpg[/image]

[image]local://upfiles/20124/2F6B15CDE49D47789E7C54D19A5B46DE.jpg[/image]




CV60 -> RE: IDEA/PROPOSAL: Community creation/review of unit description (2/11/2022 4:09:54 PM)

Claude-Thanks. In keeping with the Soviet theme, that description file has been purged.[:)]




CV60 -> RE: IDEA/PROPOSAL: Community creation/review of unit description (2/12/2022 8:26:56 PM)

DRAFT description of the SPS-141 jammer for community comment/corrections


OVERVIEW: The SPS-141M airborne DECM active noise jammer for self-protection operating in the I-band.

DETAILS:
The SPS-141 is a first generation pod-mounted repeater jamming system that breaks angle track in systems employing either pulsed or continuous wave illumination. System employment is against tracking radar systems and either active or semiactive missile seekers. The SPS-141 jams two distinct bands. It works in four modes: individual protection, two-aircraft protection (both aircraft having the SPS-141, cooperating with each other in jamming the enemy radar), "Doppler noise" mode, and low-level mode, where the equipment uses the terrain bounce effect in jamming.

When used by Iraq in the 1980's, strike formations using the jammer typically were composed of a of four aircraft, each consisting of two elements of two aircraft. The lead of each element carries the SPS-141 for the protection of the section. The pod is activated about 5-10 NM outside the maximum range of the threat weapon system and deactivated when clear of the threat.


Specifications:

Frequency: 8.3-10.3 Ghz
Power: 15W
Coverage: 60° azimuth, 30° elevation


NOTES: Airborne "thermal" jammer in the Gvozdika series.



SOURCES: DIA, "Electronic Warfare Forces Study-Iraq (August 1990) https://www.archives.gov/files/declassification/iscap/pdf/2014-033-doc01.pdf; Friedman, Norman. The Naval Institute Guide to World Naval Weapons Systems, 1997-1998. Naval Inst Press, 1997, pg. 515 ; "Soviet MiG-21SM Fishbed-J." Eastern Order of Battle. Accessed February 12, 2022. https://www.easternorbat.com/html/soviet_mig-21sm_fishbed-j_eng.html.




ClaudeJ -> RE: IDEA/PROPOSAL: Community creation/review of unit description (2/12/2022 10:18:49 PM)

Nice one Steve!

About the SPS-141MVG's* modes, here's what a German source says :

- PROGRAM-1: "Individual Protection" Self-protection for the carrier aircraft
- PROGRAM-2: "Collective Protection" Protection of two or more aircraft with only one pod
- PROGRAM-3: "Doppler Noise Mode" Cooperation of two pods on two aircraft (one pod per aircraft)
- PROGRAM-4: "Low Flight Mode" Flight altitude below 500 m, using the "terrain-bouncing" effect (deflecting interference by illuminating the earth's surface), but also effective over forested areas and especially over sea

* #2038


The same source also adds some interesting lore about its use within the German Air Force :

quote:

In 1984, the supply of SU-22M4s to NVA-LSK began. At the same time, the two units each received 14 SPS-141 MVG-A (export version of the SPS-141) self-protection deceptive jammers. It automatically generates active response jammers (repeaters) depending on the type of radar signals received and, through combinations of various range and angle deception techniques, enables individual self-protection and protection of aircraft formations against antiaircraft, air-to-air missiles and radar-guided antiaircraft guns. Response interferences are directed against pulse, continuous wave (CW), or quasi-CW radars.
(...)
The main focus of the SPS-141 was against the FlaRak system HAWK. The working frequency range is in the G to I band.

The introduction of the successor model SPS-143 was planned, but the procurement was cancelled due to political events at the end of 1989. In the Bundeswehr, the SPS-141 MWGÄ has been tested by the Wehrtechnische Dienststelle 61 (WTD-61) in Manching after a trial phase on the type SU-22M4 taken over from the NVA, and after appropriate adaptation also on a McD F-4F Phantom II (KWS) of Jagdgeschwader 73 Pferdsfeld and on a Phantom II (KWS) of Jagdgeschwader 74 "Mölders" (JG 74 "M") from Neuburg/Donau. However, it did not make it to a "regular" mission.

During the NATO exercise "ELITE 2005" over the Heuberg training area, the SPS-141 was seen on the F-4F of JG-74 "M" 38+24. Also in 2006, the pod was spotted on the F4-F 37+15 of WTD-61.
During the last flight of an Luftwaffe F-4F at the "PHANTOM PHAREWELL" on June 29, 2013 at JG-71 "R" in Wittmund, the 37+15 of WTD-61 with the SPS-141 was also seen again in the aircraft display ('Static Display').


Source : http://www.manfred-bischoff.de/SU22.htm#St%F6r-/T%E4uschbeh%E4lter%20SPS-14


I'm not sure the Iraqi operated the SPS-141M. As far as I can tell, it was the SPS-141MVG export variant.

A poster on ACIG forum mentioned that the English transcription should be SPS-141V (СПС-141В), and provided a picture of that early version, also mentioning that it's unidirectional.
http://www.acig.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=497&p=255311&hilit=SPS+1414#p255311




CV60 -> RE: IDEA/PROPOSAL: Community creation/review of unit description (2/13/2022 5:08:28 PM)

Claude-Thank you for the links. I'll add them. Regarding the version the Iraqi's had, it isnt clear from the DIA article. That's the problem with doing description files on ECM gear: THere isn't much info out there, and much of it is for slightly different models (which in the ECM world, could result in fairly drastic changes in capability). I write the description files with the idea that for the ECM gear I will try to establish a baseline of what the equipment was generally capable of, which should be enough for CMO. By including the sources, I leave room for debate/discussion and further refinement. In any case, thank you for the links, and I'll add them to description file.

Regarding the directionality of the system, the images of the pod seem to indicate that it is a directional system (which makes sense given it was primarily used against HAWK SAMs). The "Naval Institute Guide to World Naval Weapons Systems" also states it was directional (that is where I got the coverage info from). Possibly early systems were not?




CV60 -> RE: IDEA/PROPOSAL: Community creation/review of unit description (2/13/2022 5:24:02 PM)

REVISED SPS-141 (Sensor_5252) for comment

OVERVIEW: The SPS-141 series airborne DECM active noise jammer for self-protection and aircraft element protection, operating in the G -I band.

DETAILS:
The SPS-141 is a first generation pod-mounted repeater jamming system that automatically generates active response jammers (repeaters) depending on the type of radar signals received and, through combinations of various range and angle deception techniques, enables individual self-protection and protection of aircraft formations against antiaircraft, air-to-air missiles and radar-guided antiaircraft guns. Response interferences are directed against pulse, continuous wave (CW), or quasi-CW radars.

The SPS-141 is against tracking radar systems and either active or semiactive missile seekers. The SPS-141 jams two distinct bands. It works in four modes: individual protection, two-aircraft protection (both aircraft having the SPS-141, cooperating with each other in jamming the enemy radar), "Doppler noise" mode, and low-level mode, where the equipment uses the terrain bounce effect in jamming.

When used by Iraq in the 1980's, strike formations using the jammer typically were composed of a of four aircraft, each consisting of two elements of two aircraft. The lead of each element carries the SPS-141 for the protection of the section. The pod is activated about 5-10 NM outside the maximum range of the threat weapon system and deactivated when clear of the threat.


Specifications:

Frequency: 4-10 Ghz
Power: 15W
Coverage: 60° azimuth, 30° elevation


NOTES: Airborne "thermal" jammer in the Gvozdika series. The system was primarily designed to work against the NATO HAWK SAM system.



SOURCES: DIA, "Electronic Warfare Forces Study-Iraq (August 1990) https://www.archives.gov/files/declassification/iscap/pdf/2014-033-doc01.pdf; Friedman, Norman. The Naval Institute Guide to World Naval Weapons Systems, 1997-1998. Naval Inst Press, 1997, pg. 515 ; "Soviet MiG-21SM Fishbed-J." Eastern Order of Battle. Accessed February 12, 2022. https://www.easternorbat.com/html/soviet_mig-21sm_fishbed-j_eng.html ; "SU22M4." Homepage Manfred Bischoff. Accessed February 13, 2022. https://www.manfred-bischoff.de/SU22.htm#St%F6r-/T%E4uschbeh%E4lter%20SPS-14.




PN79 -> RE: IDEA/PROPOSAL: Community creation/review of unit description (2/13/2022 9:21:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CV60

Regarding the directionality of the system, the images of the pod seem to indicate that it is a directional system (which makes sense given it was primarily used against HAWK SAMs). The "Naval Institute Guide to World Naval Weapons Systems" also states it was directional (that is where I got the coverage info from). Possibly early systems were not?


Early wing pod for SPS-141 could apparently jam only frontally.

See here picuture of it on czechoslovak Su-7 (upper photo): https://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=154181




ClaudeJ -> RE: IDEA/PROPOSAL: Community creation/review of unit description (2/13/2022 9:55:46 PM)

That's what I meant by "unidirectional" : that it, the early SPS-141V (СПС-141В), could jam only "frontally".

Here's what Tom Cooper wrote about that :
quote:

Re: Russian/Soviet Airborne ECM (equipment and tactics)
Postby Tom » Thu May 27, 2021 5:54 pm

They called it the SPS-141, and it only had antennas pointing forward. As mentioned above: later on, they began installing some of these rearwards, to improve protection in that direction (with fins removed, of course). So, no idea if it was the SPS-141M or else.

The whole thread is worth reading by the way.

By looking at the schematics on that "German source" I posted above, the SPS-141MVG had front side and back side emmiters. It thus would be "omnidirectional".


---

Now, as for the proposal Steve just posted, if it's specific to the #5252, "The SPS-141 is a first generation pod-mounted(...)" wouldn't match since that sensor is specifically internal.

Other than that, it looks good to me.




CV60 -> RE: IDEA/PROPOSAL: Community creation/review of unit description (2/14/2022 12:12:09 AM)

Claud-Unfortuantely, I'm not a member of that board, (which requires board accesss to view posts). I don't see where to sign up for membership. Could you copy the interesting comments and post them here? ALternatively, if you are not comfortable with that, do you have a link where I can apply to join the board?




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