How to use 105mm howitzer for suppress (Full Version)

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cristianwj -> How to use 105mm howitzer for suppress (2/2/2022 1:23:52 PM)

I have played Dien Bien Phu scenarios recently.
According to the history and briefing, I use 105mm howitzer gun for suppress french's bunker and trenches.
But after several turns, I found the french didn't suppressed by my shells strom.
What is the best way to use 105mm and other mortals for suppress the enemy?



Crossroads -> RE: How to use 105mm howitzer for suppress (2/2/2022 1:35:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cristianwj

I have played Dien Bien Phu scenarios recently.
According to the history and briefing, I use 105mm howitzer gun for suppress french's bunker and trenches.
But after several turns, I found the french didn't suppressed by my shells strom.
What is the best way to use 105mm and other mortals for suppress the enemy?

French units are quite well trenched, as they were historically, while 105mm is not the heaviest weapon around. You are doing things correctly from the sound of it, just keep pounding them and hope for that lucky die roll.



TomWalton -> RE: How to use 105mm howitzer for suppress (2/3/2022 9:22:45 AM)

I've always been slightly doubtful as to whether or not all the CS series games don't skew the results too far against the attacker.

Playing the amazing Street Without Joy scenario in CSVN, I had the VC surrounded in a bunker for something like 15 turns, but never managed to overwhelm them. Leaving a gap for them to slip out through didn't work either (when surely that's what they would historically have done?).

I believe that, as units in bunkers, their chances of recovery from disruption are (very, too?) high, so with say four units in a bunker, it's going to be tough to beat them (though in the SWJ scenario, I did in a couple of cases).

Maybe lowering their chances of recovery from disruption at least slightly would give a historically more accurate result...?

(In East Front, units in bunkers can sometimes be persuaded to leave and go and grab a nearby objective, if you leave it empty, which is gamey, but beats the frustration... But these CSVN VC are stubborn little b#gggers with a mind of their own! The AI is actually clever ;-) !)



devoncop -> RE: How to use 105mm howitzer for suppress (2/3/2022 9:32:06 AM)

To balance against your experience Tom I just had two machine gun VC units in a pillbox, never mind a bunker obliterated over two turns by Hog Helicopter gunships in my current MP game with Thomas[:@]

On the other hand he got hammered with adverse EP as my pillbox was in a town so public opinion was unimpressed[:)]

I appreciate the French do not have this particular luxury in Street Without Joy though !



TomWalton -> RE: How to use 105mm howitzer for suppress (2/3/2022 9:35:39 AM)

Interesting!

But another doubt: I don't see that happening always when (I think!) I'm seeing attack values of 60+ -- which in previous CS games you very, very rarely see.

Does CSVN tweak things further against the attacker? (Or is that that I just need to be more patient and/or tactically better ?!)



devoncop -> RE: How to use 105mm howitzer for suppress (2/3/2022 9:41:45 AM)

I do note that the attackers advantage in storming a bunker is maximised if the attack comes in from three sides or more simultaneously from the 2 oclock, 7 oclock and 11 oclock directions rather than 6,7 and 8 oclock directions for example and especially if the defenders are already isolated (but it sounds like you did this anyway).

I guess some resistance fights like Rorkes Drift will always beat the odds !



Crossroads -> RE: How to use 105mm howitzer for suppress (2/3/2022 9:49:20 AM)

Thanks guys, interesting observations. In general, there are new parameters in place in Vietnam that were there not before, including "Weak Defend" for those rearguard actions for instance where you just want to slow down the opponent with minimum casualties. Then the opposite, "Fanatical Defend", where the defender tries to hang onto its position no matter what.

Enhanced Assault optional rule is are renamed for a reason, it takes more factors into calculation, and also allows for higher casualties, both for attacker, and defender.



TomWalton -> RE: How to use 105mm howitzer for suppress (2/3/2022 9:59:19 AM)

Jeje, it certainly provided for higher casualties for me, the attacker ;-) !

Tried everything years of experience with East and West Front gives me and also the direction of the assaults, as @devoncop suggests, but couldn't get the results.

Two things I saw: (1) some of the ARVN (not sure they were called that in the 1950s) have terrible assault values so I swopped them out for Foreign Legion and paras but (2) I'd not been nearly careful enough over keeping them in supply range, which looks as if it might be critical now...

It can be a little frustrating at times (which in fact feels historically realistic) but what a terrific game CSVN is!



devoncop -> RE: How to use 105mm howitzer for suppress (2/3/2022 10:07:04 AM)

You got that right Tom its an epic game.

The VNA that fought with the French perform pretty much similarly to regular ARVN in the later wars so you did the right thing using the French Paras.

The HQ positioning could well have been crucial as you suggest. I assume you committed French leaders to the attack too ?

Did the VC have a leader present ?



TomWalton -> RE: How to use 105mm howitzer for suppress (2/3/2022 3:00:07 PM)

Yes, @Devoncop, that might also have been a factor. I finished up besieging three or four villages and where I did bring up a leader succeeded; where I didn't failed.

On a huge map, it's all too easy to end up with your companies split up, instead of keeping them nice and compact (and on a small screen is sometimes hard to locate them afterwards) -- but I'm starting to understand that that is super important.

Hotkey "N" takes you to the next unit but one to take you to the next platoon in the company would be amazing...



Jason Petho -> RE: How to use 105mm howitzer for suppress (2/3/2022 3:20:02 PM)

I'm giving Street Without Joy a try, up to turn 10 now and devoncop said things are going to start getting ugly now. *laughs* That's not good.

It is easy to split up the companies on this map, yes, for sure. Organization is definitely important. As is paying attention to the type of company you're sending to particular tasks.

Seems that the Marines at the best French units at the start of the scenario. The para's haven't arrived yet, so will be curious to see what their stats are.



Schlonz -> RE: How to use 105mm howitzer for suppress (2/13/2022 7:29:18 PM)

I've finished "Street Without Joy" today.........man, this scenario lives up to its name.


I've besieged and shelled the bunker in Xom Trung Hoa (79,95), occupied by five Vietminh units, for ages.
In the final turn, five platoons from four directions overran the last surviving MG squad.
BTW, I've captured all but three objectives, but still missed a minor victory by 187 VP's.



[image]local://upfiles/26299/F5615829DDA64FBC97478C26A56B5B48.jpg[/image]



Jason Petho -> RE: How to use 105mm howitzer for suppress (2/13/2022 8:04:30 PM)

Great job!!

Hope you had fun!



Schlonz -> RE: How to use 105mm howitzer for suppress (2/14/2022 6:56:28 AM)

I had a lot of different emotions while playing this scenario, but fun was definitely not one of those [:D]



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