Beethoven1 -> RE: Turn 1 Axis Panzer Group Combat Results (2/19/2022 12:02:11 AM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins quote:
ORIGINAL: Stamb Please fix Soviet logistic system. It is completely unhistorical that they can use supply priority 4 for almost all of their units if not all, already from the start of the game. Anyone can use Supply Priority 4. If you're saying they are actually getting far more supplies/ammo/fuel than what is historical, we can have that discussion. I'd like to see what you're seeing and some historical comparisons. Regards, - Erik Hi Erik, Personally I can't speak to exactly what level of supply difficulty is historical for Soviets, but I can definitely speak to having no supply problems basically at all in the game while playing the Soviets, past turn 4-5 or so, and at least from what I am aware it is not historical for Soviets to have no real supply issues at all (for example in the Battle of Kharkov, I think they had some significant supply problems, but I'm not a historian so don't quote me on that). During the initial few turns of the game, Soviets can have supply issues because they are still in the process of mobilizing trucks, and many new units are appearing on the map and being railed around (initially starting off with low supply until they have a chance to start receiving supply for a turn or two). However, if you simply put the entire Red Army on supply priority 4 and build some depots and set depots near the front to level 4 priority, all of these issues very quickly disappear and essentially every Soviet division will quickly have 100%+ levels of supply/ammo/fuel. I suspect that part of the issue might be related to how the game treats all vehicles as a standardized single entity. As far as I am aware, the game treats all "vehicles" as a 2.5 ton truck. However, in reality as far as I am aware many of the civilian vehicles mobilized by the Soviets in 1941 would have been random civilian vehicles, not actual specialized military transport trucks, and accordingly probably many of them had much less carrying capacity than 2.5 tons. This might be one part of what contributes to Soviet logistics being so good (at least as long as they are not fighting far away late in the game in Germany or Poland in 1944/45). I have also played Soviets in 1942/43 in the StB scenario and similarly had no significant supply issues outside of a handful of local areas by simply putting my whole army on supply priority 4. Here are some screenshot from my Soviet game against jubjub as an example. This is a server game so you can look at the saves directly if you want. On turn 12, I have an enormous surplus of trucks, with 66k in the pool: [image]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/939283895394910298/944386047926734859/unknown.png[/image] Having had my entire army on supply priority 4 since the start of the game, by this point I am easily receiving a lot more supply than my units need on any given turn, because of all the supply they received and have stocked up from previous turns. I am receiving 26k supply, and need 8k, so I am getting more than 3x as much as I need to be at full supply, consistently, on every turn. [image]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/939283895394910298/944386747230461994/unknown.png[/image] All of this adds up to basically having all my units be in good supply, basically all of the time. The only time when units are not in good supply is right after they have lost a battle and routed or something, in which case they just need a turn or so to refit (or just air transport supplies to them) and then they are restored to full supply. How much is this costing me? Am I losing a large number of trucks as a result of putting my entire army on supply priority 4 the whole time? Not as far as I can see. I have lost a total of 955 "Trucks Lost in Freight" over 12 turns of having my entire army on supply priority 4. [image]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/939283895394910298/944393157196533881/unknown.png[/image] If those truck losses cause a problem at all, it seems like one that can be fixed by simply having one or two fewer tank corps later in the game and instead using more tank brigades which I can assign to my Guards Rifle Corps to make them even stronger. What is even more striking, however, is my supply situation in this OTHER game... AAR here - https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5141454 In this other game, I am trying to test out just how broken Soviets are, especially if they don't waste a lot of troops trying to defend the south. So I am playing deliberately with both hands tied behind my back. As such, among other things, I am not using any army HQs or corps HQs at all, and all units are directly controlled by STAVKA except for assault fronts, which are directly controlled by the assault fronts (with no armies). I am also using bad leaders for STAVKA and the assault fronts, at the moment whichever ones Stalin decides to give me. That means that I have truly horrendous leader rolls, with all my troops being assigned either directly to STAVKA or directly to my 2 assault fronts. And yet, here is my logistics report on turn 11 of that game: [image]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/939283895394910298/944394601211498576/unknown.png[/image] So despite literally not using generals or leaders at all, and consequently having absolutely horrendous admin rolls, my units basically all have excellent supply, with 20k received compared to 8k needed. And in this game, my truck losses from using supply priority 4 are even lower, only 158 trucks lost over 11 turns of continuous supply priority 4: [image]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/939283895394910298/944397046696247306/unknown.png[/image] So I guess I must have been doing something wrong in the jubjub game to even lose 955 trucks. And in this game, I have a truck pool on turn 11 of 116k extra trucks just sitting around: [image]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/939283895394910298/944397692853944340/unknown.png[/image] The 116k is admittedly inflated because I disbanded all my army HQs, so I am saving trucks on those, but still... 116k trucks just sitting around, not even having to use them. While I am sure Soviets had better supply than Germany in late 1941, I am doubtful it was really quite so easy as this.
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