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A_B -> (8/6/2001 1:06:00 AM)

I think 5-6 battles in the operation would be ok. To make the game fun, it will have to be less historic. The germans weren't putting up much of a fight, and were very short on equipment. Success could be a made a matter of attrition (or lack of it). Six consecutive battles with no rebuild points, and your core force starts to loose its edge. If we need to drop a couple battles, it could come from winter of 44, or the 44/45. I don't think we should sacrafice any of '43, it was to important to the war. Winter of '44 will be very fun too, at the Korsun pocket - destroying tons of desperate Germans :) . So we'll probably have to loose some from '45. I think people may be getting pretty board at this point anyway, and it would be hard to keep up the challenge in game terms, without taking great liberties with history. Perhaps we should have the russians invade Iran in '45. We'd get some better battles fighting US/UK forces for the domination of the Middle east, lol. Mike, i read your battle brief last night - very good. One point though. The english language has many good swear words other than '****'. I'm sure we can furthar you grasp of the english language by informing you of these, if you so desire ;) . dan



kutalik -> (8/6/2001 1:17:00 AM)

Hey all, Back from academic research land. The collective sounds very, very promising. Having lazily worked on a SCW campaign now since version 4.something I have to say I want something I can play too. If you're still looking for volunteers count me in. Battle 3 looks pretty interesting...



A_B -> (8/6/2001 1:36:00 AM)

Welcome aboard Kutalic. I'll email the info we have so far. There are about 5 of us who are involved right now, and anther 10 with interest but very little time. battle three should be interesting - tough to build right though. You interested? I'm going to be mailing out battle one to a few play testers this afternoon.



Gen. Maczek -> (8/6/2001 2:58:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by A_B: Mike, i read your battle brief last night - very good. One point though. The english language has many good swear words other than '****'. I'm sure we can furthar you grasp of the english language by informing you of these, if you so desire ;) . dan
As I said before, my English is not perfect...Or perhaps simply lacking in several departments :D BTW, please send me a copy of that first battle. Regards. Gen. Maczek



kutalik -> (8/6/2001 2:58:00 AM)

Yeah it looks a little tough but I think its doable. The trick is as always play balance -- making it challenging without making it impossible. I'm assuming that the Soviets will go in a little beat up so won't design something that will utterly clobber a clear-thinking player. I like the river crossing aspect adds a twist.



Gallo Rojo -> (8/6/2001 11:11:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by kutalik: Hey all, Back from academic research land. The collective sounds very, very promising. Having lazily worked on a SCW campaign now since version 4.something I have to say I want something I can play too. If you're still looking for volunteers count me in. Battle 3 looks pretty interesting...
Hi Kutalik! Is good to see you on this project! By the way... how does goes this Madrid campaign? :) Best regards



kutalik -> (8/7/2001 2:59:00 AM)

Like-wise Gallo. Madrid Campaign is moving as slowly as always. The rapid changes in from the many upgrades has caused hell (especially all the infantry tinkering) with my play balance so trying to work that out. I dunno if things go well it could be out in a couple of weeks. Maybe.



A_B -> (8/7/2001 7:35:00 AM)

Update; the first battle has been sent out to playtesters. We'll try to finish it by thursday for those who want it. The core force (if you choose to take the 'selected core'), consists of the following; Recce Company (with attached engineer platoon) 2 Rifle companies (each platoon has 3 rifle squads, and one smg squad, and attached MG and AT rifle section) 1 smg company (same as above, but platoons have 2 smg squads, and two auto rifle squads) Weapons Company with morter platoon, AT gun platoon (76mm), Heavy MG platoon, AT rifle platoon, 2 truck platoons. Tank Company - three platoons of five tanks each. 2 are t/34's, and 3 are BT7's. 2 x Truck Companies - three platoons of five each (used to motorize infantry, and upgrade when possible). 45mm at gun platoon 37mm aa gun platoon 2 platoons of wagons (for above guns) This campaign is for those that like their battles big and bloody. There won't be any hiding behind support and auxillery units. Usually, your core will be it. It's not to late to join the fun, but you gotta set up at least one battle to play. this is a collective effort, so do your homework (via Wild Bills lessons), and do your part. A_B



skukko -> (8/7/2001 3:10:00 PM)

Hi A_B and all others involved :D I did find from Battle1beta little things that needs to be taken care of if you are using this *Collective* -core as I am going to do. This should be used atleast to testing to get opposite force ( GE )balanced to some level of difficulty. I did mail my suggestions for fixing the problem. mosh



A_B -> (8/7/2001 11:40:00 PM)

Mosh, good comments. I sent a reply. We need builders for battles 2 and 3. dan



Tombstone -> (8/8/2001 7:32:00 AM)

I wanna do 3. I have dibs, I said so earlier!! Tomo



A_B -> (8/8/2001 8:10:00 AM)

Ok, tomo, you got dibs :) Have you checked out the map? I may have too much 'fog' on it. You can probably tell where if was heading with the plot, based on the victory locations/types/and turns they appear. Also, if it is going to be at night, will we use the adjusted preferences to better simulate a night fight? Keep in mind that the core force may be very chewed up at this point in the game, and that most of us play with CC on.



A_B -> (8/8/2001 9:00:00 AM)

I just emailed the 'raw' scenarios 4 through 12 to everyone. It is mostly just the map, and the date. Some have the VH layed out, but that is usually all. We could use some more hands, so post or email if you're interested. AB



Slayer -> (8/8/2001 10:56:00 AM)

I'll give 9 a shot. Is there any historic forces used in the battle I should know about, or should I just put in what seems reasonable?



mucius -> (8/8/2001 3:07:00 PM)

Hi, if you still need volunteers, count me in. Just assign any battle to me...the bigger the better ;) mm



A_B -> (8/8/2001 11:59:00 PM)

kutalik and Mucius, i've sent you both files of scenarios for you to pick from. Email with any questions. AB



A_B -> (8/10/2001 3:02:00 AM)

Update; we need designers for battles 4 and 5. Once these are covered, we're dialed through battle 11. Darroch and Mike, could you do these? Wild Bill and Stuart Mills are each doing a battle as well (7 & 10 i think). This is very good new, and will add a lot to this campaign. Several of the campaigns are being designed by newbies. This is also very good news. The more people that start designing, means the more campaigns there are to play (my true motivation is revealed :) )



darroch -> (8/11/2001 2:18:00 AM)

I'll take #4 - counterattack from Pripet Marshes if I recall correctly.... Please confirm the scenario constraints for me - 1) since this is #4, do I assume combat erosion of the original force (for playbalancing?) - if so, how much? 25% 35%... 2) Are we hitting the north flank of Pzg1 (Kleist) or the south Flank of PzG2 (Guderian)? Or, since it's August, am I hitting German infantry? 3) What restrictions on AUX units did we agree on? I like to incorporate more AUX units in order to be able to justify more nastiness but zero AUX is fine too.... Thanks! BTW - it's a real treat to be associated with WBW under any circumstances!!



lnp4668 -> (8/11/2001 2:52:00 AM)

Just my luck to have my first design experience (battle #6) as opening act for WB :eek:



A_B -> (8/11/2001 2:56:00 AM)

Darroch, This is after the 'escape' battle, and there is some time between this and yours. I'm thinking the player will get 400 to 700 to rebuild some of thier core, or all of it if they are super duper good :) . So assume the average player is at 90%,with the spread being 75% to 100%. Historically, this battle is a little hard to fit in on this date. So, let just say the South, since this is the way the map is oriented. It could also be a smaller marshy area further east, not the Pripets, if that sits better with you. I'm more worried about the fun factor. As far as enemy forces, surprise us (but not too much). Whatever auxilleries you want are fine. I imagine there will be some russian partisans somewhere in there :) . This is not meant to be one of the 'monster' battles, like battle #1, battle #7, Battle 21 (stalingrad). It'll be big, yes, but not a major turn in the campaign. I'd keep the support points at a min., or at zero. Other than that, it's your baby.



darroch -> (8/11/2001 3:13:00 AM)

Cool.... I will kick this off as soon as I get done with your first battle to get a feel for things.... I will assume 90% of core force I am tempted to use the southern version (Russians pouring down from the North) as this sort of resembles problems that Kleist had - his supply lines were cut by strong Soviet armored forces under Kirponos for a couple days - the Germans took heavy losses to clear the road - and they encountered KV-2s :eek: There may be a modest amount of AUX units that will be offset by more Germans :eek: Cheers



Tombstone -> (8/11/2001 4:01:00 AM)

What percentage of force should I assume for #3? I'm halfway through building it currently. Its going to require that the player hold open a corridor for some reinforcements to arrive, and then try to break out towards the south across a river. I'm going with a ridgeline along the river being the most significant terrain feature and moderate woods coverage... does that sound on target? Tomo



A_B -> (8/11/2001 4:32:00 AM)

Tomo, I'm guessing casualties between 50% and 75%. So the core will be considerably weakened. Because it is an escape battle, the goal of the russians should be to avoid fighting except to help with the breakout. Kind of interesting to play a battle while trying to avoid fighting (it can be really fun if done right). Are you using the map i sent out? Let me know if you aren't, because it can be recycled back to '44 - the bagration guys (darroch and Mike) may be able to put it to good use. If your using a fresh map, that is great. If you've pulled a map from the ones that come with the game, email it to me, so i know if it had been sloted somewhere else already, and can make alterations. I think you should coordinate with Mosh a bit. He'll be able to tell you more about the core force shape at this point. Battle one is hard. If Mosh makes battle 2 real hard, that may impact what you want to do - make it more of a thinking scenario. Or vice versa if Mosh is doing a thinking scenario. Just don't tell us what your doing :) It would spoil the surprise.



Tombstone -> (8/11/2001 5:30:00 AM)

I didn't get your map I guess. Its ok if I make one right? As far as fighting, the scenario will have two basic stages. One where you have to hold open a corrdor to the edge of the map for like 4 turns, until some units arrive on the battlefield that you have to take off the southern map with you. (Maybe someone famous, or the BARGES to cross the river) THEN get the hell out of there. There'll be a fair amount of auxiliary units in this one, and the battle will be big, but probably wont demand a lot of losses. Death is always a possibility, but I'm gonna try and make it more of an exciting story, rather than a grueling, unpleasant grind to freedom. Tomo



A_B -> (8/11/2001 6:01:00 AM)

Tomo, sounds good - an exciting escape story. The story of battle 1 is just the feeling of shock and helplessness when first confroted by the blitzkrieg. Not that players will be helpless against the AI, but compared to the usual easy victory, it may feel like that. I'm not sure what Mosh is doing on his, but i don't imagine it is going to be a pleasant sunday picnic. So by battle three, players will be ready to see a little sunlight at the end of the tunnel. Looking forward to your map :)



Gen. Maczek -> (8/11/2001 11:01:00 PM)

Just thought I would let you know that I'm not using map #5, so if anyone wants to have it, its ready and built... Im guessing the core force will be rather weathered once it reaches scenario #5? Im thinking of adding a modderate amount of AUX forces (mostly partisans, since Im assuming this is a railhead behind the front lines) but nothing too heavy... Regards. Gen. Maczek



A_B -> (8/11/2001 11:32:00 PM)

We'll have to put that map back in somewhere else, it was a nice one :) . Everyone sounds like they are making good progress. I haven't heard from Mosh or Lu Pham lately though. Here are the assignments; Battle 1 - AB Battle 2 - Mosh Battle 3 - Tomo Battle 4 - Darroch Battle 5 – Mike (the General) Battle 6 – Lu Pham Battle 7 - Wild Bill Battle 8 - AB Battle 9 – Eric Aube (slayer) I'd like to get the scenarios in to me by next Saterday - one week from now. I can then compile them into the campaign format and send them back out. The initial points issue in battles will be guesswork. Once several people are into the campaign, we can get some averages of casualites, and use this to refine the build point system.



A_B -> (8/13/2001 9:08:00 PM)

UPDATE;
Everything seems to be ontrack for battles up through number 7. Wild Bill has already completed his. Lets try to get them all back to me by Sunday the 18th. Then the fun really begins. I'll be gone this week - until sunday, so won't be able to answer any questions. Dan



kord -> (8/13/2001 10:08:00 PM)

Hi all !!! Is it still possible to participate ? Best regards,
Kord.



Gen. Maczek -> (8/13/2001 10:47:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by kord:
Hi all !!! Is it still possible to participate ? Best regards,
Kord.
When Dan (A_B) comes back on Sunday, mail him and ask for an assignment. Im sure he'll be more than happy to get you working on something.
Regards.
Gen. Maczek



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