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darroch -> (11/2/2001 12:33:00 AM)

No restart needed. I don't think that was the idea. These are good battles but they need to be played and critiqued. I don't think we can make any really educated decisions until several players have run through at least the first 7-10 battles. The previous discussions would be interesting and might help new designers better understand the approach. If you have time, definitely post them. Let's wait for at least a couple players to make it through battle 10 before considering any major or minor course corrections. There's nothing wrong with the initial approach - my hunch is that it will work out nicely. Besides, Wild Bill has shown us the way in this area as in so many others: his VICTORS campaign game came in two flavors: HARD and EASY - the player just picked his preferred level of pain! GPW 2.0 could be the same way - RUSSIAN-style and REGULAR! But I think we'll all have to grind through some battles to know for sure. I think the guidance I have been providing the new designers is still correct: balance the battle against a Soviet battalion-sized battlegroup and try and limit expected core losses to about 33% in any one battle. Thus, by battle 16 (June 1942), the core force, at full-strength, is probably 30-40 tanks, 30-40 infantry squads, 8 x ATG, 8 x AA, 8 x mortar and various transport and support units. Experience levels will tend to run about 33% elite and the rest mostly veteran with some good (plus whatever replacements have shown up). This does not reflect a lot of upgraded trucks which is a pet peeve for many folks. We might consider eliminating trucks from the core force completely and providing them as AUX just like the Stalingrad scenario does...upgrading trucks to T-34s will definitely skew the playbalance but is easily done and impossible to prevent. I'm pretty sure the force above is a very likely core from what I have seen so far. So, unless the battle is designated an "easy" one, the core force ought to lose 10+ tanks each battle so that by the end of the operation, there are a handful of operational tanks left... I think this is valid advice for now and the battles can be easily modified based upon lessons learned after players play the first 10 battles. I do think, A_B, that to achieve your vision, a second round of design will be needed - but perhaps only one or two designers. What I mean is that after the first 10 battles have been played by several players, a designer will go and open up each scenario in the editor and fix bugs, correct errors, and then make subtle changes to make the battle conform to the GPW vision (i.e. tweak each battle to get the right level of destruction of core force). Then GPW Version 2.0 can be released - minimal bugs and balanced to provide the kind of challenge you're looking for. Cheers



A_B -> (11/2/2001 1:10:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by darroch:

Thus, by battle 16 (June 1942), the core force, at full-strength, is probably 30-40 tanks, 30-40 infantry squads, 8 x ATG, 8 x AA, 8 x mortar and various transport and support units. Experience levels will tend to run about 33% elite and the rest mostly veteran with some good (plus whatever replacements have shown up).
How is this for a way to handle upgrades;
rather than strict limits, have a mandated section of the core, inf./med tanks/AA guns, which reflect a realistice force composition, and if a player can achieve the prescibed level when rebuilding, they can then get hvy tanks/flame tanks, etc. just a thought. The other way that all of the play balancing is handled is through the 'operational' format. medium player just won't be able to achieve complete breakthroughs (as simulated by playing all of the battles of an operation), and a major set back is manageable (ie; you are not on a glide path to eventual defeat)because you skip to the next operation and get the same available points. The great player doesnt' get to build the massivly bigger core, they just get to play more battles, and in the process accumulate many more 'points'. also helps the replay value.
quote:


This does not reflect a lot of upgraded trucks which is a pet peeve for many folks. We might consider eliminating trucks from the core force completely and providing them as AUX just like the Stalingrad scenario does...upgrading trucks to T-34s will definitely skew the playbalance but is easily done and impossible to prevent.
Cheers[/QB]
Well, the whole idea of the trucks was to upgrade them to T34's. The core force starts as a battalion of mech inf. with trucks, but ends as a inf. battalion and a tank battalion (plus attachments). In a regular campaign, i usually buy some trucks & scouts for just this purpose. Does anyone else do this?



asgrrr -> (11/2/2001 10:28:00 PM)

A_B, if you have a map intended for scen. 16, send it to me asap.



asgrrr -> (11/2/2001 11:09:00 PM)

A_B, if you have a map intended for scen16, send it to me asap.



A_B -> (11/3/2001 1:31:00 AM)

I sent 16 out to you this morning, with instructions. Have you designed battles for SP before? Battle 16 is a doozy, so some experience would help (otherwise, it is a lot of testing). AB



darroch -> (11/6/2001 1:31:00 AM)

bump status?
Mucius - did you ever do battle 12? could you send it to me or A_B or both please... Did anyone sign up for battle 13? If no, anyone want ot a raid scenario? Cheers
Brad



darroch -> (11/6/2001 1:33:00 AM)

If no, anyone want ot a raid scenario? translated means: anyone want to do a raid scenario? sorry



Tombstone -> (11/6/2001 3:33:00 AM)

Send me some specifications for the scenario and I'll go for it. Tomo



A_B -> (11/6/2001 4:50:00 AM)

13 is an ambush, and I want to do it. Darroch, these were my latest; Battle 16 – Asgeir Petursson
Near Millerovo, July 29th, 1942 – Delay battle along dry river bed. Battle 17 - Alessandro
Morozovsk, July 29th, 1942 –. Russian defense Battle 18
Don River, August 2nd, 1942 –. Escape Battle. Battle 18 (hard)
Don River, August 2nd, 1942 –. Escape Battle. You should have Tomo work on Kurgan with you. You have similar styles, so it should go without much friction. Also, based on his scenario 3 (peeking, not playing), he has a good grasp of using a lot of units in creative ways. Who do you have for 18? That will be a tricky one to do right.



darroch -> (11/6/2001 10:45:00 AM)

Jorgen Vausshaug has agreed to do battle 18 - both versions. The raid I am referring to is battle 20 - the artillery raid - so Tomo could have it and you can have 13... I'll write you in for 13 and that answers my question about 13... ANy idea about 12?



Tombstone -> (11/6/2001 12:00:00 PM)

#20 it is then. Sounds like an interesting scenario, unlike what I'm used to... probably be a good experience for me. I'll email more details to Darroch and A_B. Tomo



generalrichmond -> (11/6/2001 9:22:00 PM)

Battle 16 - I was under the impression that I was to do that one?



asgrrr -> (11/6/2001 9:46:00 PM)

Too late generalli... It's almost done. Sorry dude if you were already started.



A_B -> (11/6/2001 10:42:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by Penetrator:
Too late generalli... It's almost done. Sorry dude if you were already started.
Penetrator, how is the battle going? Were the instructions clear enough? AB



asgrrr -> (11/7/2001 12:00:00 AM)

I was meaning to get back to you, the battle is almost ready. I am doing some basic testing to see if it is working properly, you should get it very soon.



color -> (11/7/2001 12:03:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by darroch:
Jorgen Vausshaug has agreed to do battle 18 - both versions. The raid I am referring to is battle 20 - the artillery raid - so Tomo could have it and you can have 13... I'll write you in for 13 and that answers my question about 13... ANy idea about 12?
You have got my last name spelled wrong, it's Vasshaug.
Maybe I should change it, everyone get's it wrong where I live unless I give to them with a teaspoon. Even then they manage to get it wrong I'll do the two 18 battles, and if they are tricky, the better. That's the way I like them.
I don't have any experience designing SPWaW scenarios but let me surprise you. Color



generalrichmond -> (11/7/2001 1:18:00 AM)

My faurt - I am doing battle 19 which is also a delay. Exsqueeze me, please. Anyhow, c'mon along well on the battle. Will send out a few ?'s in a day or so.



asgrrr -> (11/8/2001 9:26:00 PM)

Scenario 16 has been delivered to A_B. Anyone want to test it? Be warned, it is looooooong......



skukko -> (11/9/2001 7:44:00 PM)

I am going to struggle Kurgan battles, but I do not know which ones are of it gone. So let me know what is left or do I all of them (5) its not much work to build. I've received info and map of those battles. I have something else today but I'll dig into these in this weekend. mosh



asgrrr -> (11/10/2001 12:38:00 AM)

A_B, can you send me info and map for scen26 if available?



generalrichmond -> (11/10/2001 9:31:00 PM)

Text files for the scenarios... Are we going to have someone translate them into Russian so that we have the campaign available for our fellow Russian players? Secondly, on the matter of proofreading. I have gone over a few of the texts for a mini-campaign that Brad gave me. Granted, maybe these are still in rough format. But we should have a stickler for proofreading and proper English go over these. Just wanted to throw that out there for quality support.



darroch -> (11/11/2001 12:09:00 AM)

Skukko - we've talked via email - you get Kurgan battle 2: the 13th Guards have had all night to dig in the the east slope of Kurgan - can they hold against renewed German attacks? GenRichmond - improvements always welcome - if someone has the time to proofread, have at it. Good way to get spouses involved? Send me your edits and I'll update the text. GenRichmond - Russian? Hey, if someone can, it would be great - I'd settle for someone writing down some commonly used Russian map texts, jargon, Unit names, etc...would love to add more flavor but the only Russian I know is Roulette... just a nakulturny...



asgrrr -> (11/11/2001 7:58:00 AM)

Well, if we have some russian friends then I have one idea...
Why not ask them to go over the submitted texts and rephrase them in a manner that matches the semantics of the russian language, and the kind of wording, manner of speaking and perhaps euphemisms that was likely to be found in russian battle orders?



Stirling -> (11/12/2001 6:28:00 PM)

Nice plan, Penetrator!
I got a russian girlfriend -she might be able to help in turning the english into "russian", but nevermind her writing stavka style: she's not too much into mil.hist. .... Stirling



generalrichmond -> (11/13/2001 9:21:00 AM)

Excellent idea. I say that because I am having a Brit reword my text files for an all-British campaign I am working on. It really does add something to have cultural colloquialisms (is that redundant?) and era-specific phrasing in the text files. I can smell right off when it is one of my fellow European culture-deficient Americans who has written a text file! :-) [No flaming - just a prod in the rear!] Even still, for American campaigns, we as Americans in the 2000's don't speak in quite the same fashion as was done in the 1940's. This is something even my British translator understands. He asked if I wanted current British phrasing or that of the 1940's. I know - it's just more effort. But it does add a nice touch. I don't even know if it's possible to get the game to recognize the cyrillic alphabet.



darroch -> (11/15/2001 9:42:00 AM)

Status Update: Battle 16 finished testing
Battles 8, 19, 21 entering testing Next subject: Does any one have good maps of the Kursk battleground? I have found great maps for the battles 25-34 - old WW2 German maps! Keep on truckin!



asgrrr -> (12/16/2001 9:48:00 AM)

Wellwell... A bump from page 11 (45 posts per page). Tssstssss, this is sad.
Well messrs, this project getting rusty on us. I suggest we publish part one of our effort covering june 1941 - end of stalingrad operation. It is a natural break in the story, and also the new version is coming out. I think the future of the project will be decided by the reception this gets. If we don't publish now we might as well realise the project is dead. Can we set early february as a deadline? (surrender of stalingrad).



Kuroshio Apocal -> (12/16/2001 3:31:00 PM)

Even though I'm not a fan of larger battles, this sounds too good to pass up. Please release it.



sebagonzalez -> (12/16/2001 4:07:00 PM)

I OFFER U GUYS MY NEW SPWAW WEBSITE "LA WEB DEL SPWAW" TO POST YOUR CAMPAIGN ONCE U SET A RELEASE. JUST SEND ME ALL THE INFO AND THE ZIP FILE WHEN RDY SO I CAN MAKE A WEBPAGE FOR IT. HTTP://SPWAW.TRIPOD.COM/



asgrrr -> (12/23/2001 8:27:00 AM)

Just to let everyone know I am temporarily taking over as coordinator due to casualties at high
level. I intend to try pushing this project forward with the aim of publishing part one, june41-feb43 in the near future. To anyone who has been involved in this project: If you have been assigned scenarios that are still incomplete, please keep working on them or pass them up. I have heard from several of you, and the project is definitely moving forward. To everyone: Several battles of the period are unassigned, namely 25 and 27 through 34, perhaps more. Further help would be most welcome.



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