RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions

RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions (Full Version)

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Voriax -> RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions (3/4/2004 11:19:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kevin E. Duguay Agreed, but if the unit has no ON board unit why wast the space? Kevin, it may even be that the icon dates back to SP3 where the unit probably was an on-board unit. Apparently there has been no need to remove the icon. Voriax

Tombstone -> RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions (3/4/2004 11:36:49 AM)
Whoah. Didn't expect this storm... utter insanity. I'm sure there is blame on both sides, but people outta just cool off. Everything posted seems to polarize one way or the other. But, nothing changes the most important factor here, which is that there are those people who are working on the oobs and those who are not. The way it is supposed to work is that we voice our concerns and give our suggestions... period. They are in no way required to respond or rationalize their decisions... they don't even have to tell us what their decisions are. Certainly they will be making some bad choices along the way, but we're gonna tell them about each and every one, once they come out. If things can stay civil, the oob team wont be in such a contrary mood as to not give them a serious think through. The beauty of SPWAW and Matrix is how much the users are involved in the development of the game. We are involved, and that's cool. That doesn't mean we're in control. We need to be super wary of our feelings of entitlement, and see things for how they really are. I think it boils down to this: Matrix has firmly expressed its view on the tensions as a result of the 8.0 oob discussion, and they want it to stop. People should do as they say... I feel like it's perfectly acceptable to take the embittered complaints to spwaw.com or something, but I don't want to speak for anyone. Tomo

Frank W. -> RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions (3/4/2004 1:01:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KG Erwin Furthermore, this is directed at three members--we know who they are, they know who they are, so the rest of you should not let these guys screw up this community. I realize that these problems have driven away some of the valued members. This was their intent, so don't let them keep you from offering your comments and opinions. agreed. let them make their own OOB and then let´s see which is better. their´s or the official one... simple ! also i got bored on that complaining and whining, too ( even before they have seen the new OOB )[>:]

Frank W. -> RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions (3/4/2004 2:31:56 PM)
i buyed some of them in our game, stuart.... let´s see how long they live [:@]

Rune Iversen -> RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions (3/4/2004 3:39:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KG Erwin Furthermore, this is directed at three members--we know who they are, they know who they are, so the rest of you should not let these guys screw up this community. I realize that these problems have driven away some of the valued members. This was their intent, so don't let them keep you from offering your comments and opinions. Goodbye and thanks for all the fish. I will leave you to work your magic in peace, byt don´t be surprised if people turns their backs on what appears to be a set of scenario designer tools for the Raider team to use. If anybody is interested in playing a game against me (PBEM) you can find me in AoW (for now), my Yahoo site or at the SP Depot. I will play CAMOs MBT or WW2 only.

JJKettunen -> RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions (3/4/2004 3:52:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Frank W. agreed. let them make their own OOB and then let´s see which is better. their´s or the official one... simple ! also i got bored on that complaining and whining, too ( even before they have seen the new OOB )[>:] Oh boy...We have all seen the 8.1 OOB with all its magic fudge (excuse me sven). You believe that without criticism, which has not been just complaining and whining, it will disappear from 8.2?...Alternative OOB will appear sooner or later if 8.2 still has the magic fudge, no doubt about that.[8D]

JJKettunen -> RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions (3/4/2004 4:06:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Goblin With respect, but anyone who disagrees with you people is causing rancor and trouble. The responses you intially gave to cited fact were things like 'We feel its right.', and 'It was changed to reflect historic fact' when someone had posted the facts, and were different from yours. You also state 'game engine limitations' about everything, but only change one weapon in an entire category. Why does the game engine randomly take the same kind of weapons and treat them differently? Why were numbers that were real-world accurate, and working in the game, changed to fantasy numbers? Why, why, why is what we ask. Granted, we were answered with the reasons of some of the changes, but not the why. You say that some of us have bred the rancor in this forum section, and I say it takes two to breed. Ditto.

JJKettunen -> RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions (3/4/2004 4:32:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KG Erwin Tomo, you have hit the nail on the head. Not only forum administrators but the top man, Dave Heath, have gotten drawn into this. Steps have been taken to address the problems, but apparently more drastic action will have to be taken. It will be done. Enough is enough. The perps have been identified, and they will be the first to respond, or else they will just shut up and let us go about our business. To the troublemakers-- this is your final public warning. Any more spamming or trolling will result in your banning from the Matrix forums. If this is done, and you come back under a different name, I will simply delete your posts. This crap has to stop, now. I try to hold my temper here since this post is so out of line. You are just trying to convince more casual readers with your questionable political rhetorics, which reminds me of Fascism or Bolshevism, that there are three identified terrorists here who try to hamper the work of the OOB-team. That is just BS. You can FE check my posts about T-34s and improved aircrafts and see that they are no spam, but pointing out concerns about the current OOB, and backed by facts. My agenda has been to point out more or less obvious errors in the OOBs, keeping in mind that historical realism, within the game limits, is the goal of the game. If it is not, then it has been just waste of time, and I should apologize.

Kevin E. Duguay -> RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions (3/4/2004 4:50:05 PM)
Erwin, It was pointed out to me that maybe because of range limitations of the weapon involved that the T34 Calliope should be an on board artillery asset. Any thoughts on this?[&:]

harlekwin -> RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions (3/4/2004 4:53:43 PM)
Keke this is correct but also a lost cause. The German early use of the 76.2, the off-board nature of the calliope, all valid concerns. We have a forum to vent at and the last official "by the company" 8.2 OOB appears to be a personal scenario toolset more than an attempt to portray an accurate model of the evolution of combined arms warfare. Please allow me to ask you to consider impacting 8.2 as a lost cause and join me in waiting to cast a gaze at it when released with a wary but fair appraisal. At a minimum an honest and brutal assessment needs to be made of their use of the limited slots available and this can be done more openly at the Depot or on another forum. Your research was good, and your cites not flawed I particularly like the point about the heat round for the 76.2 but you know the drill "engine issues" or whatever. Keke there is more reasonable input and cross-x elsewhere. If 8.2 is smashing success I will happily be red-faced, if not well there are things that can be done and the behind the scenes guys are NOT the monolith that is being presented here. Flaming Erwin while fun and arguably warranted is a distraction form the real work being done, and a distraction from the valid concerns being raised. David Heath has said he will give oversight to the scrub. That is good enough for me to back off and wait he is a stand up guy. If there needs to be an "8.3" or a "7.12" made by a third party we will cross that bridge when it comes. regards, sven quote: ORIGINAL: Keke quote: ORIGINAL: KG Erwin Tomo, you have hit the nail on the head. Not only forum administrators but the top man, Dave Heath, have gotten drawn into this. Steps have been taken to address the problems, but apparently more drastic action will have to be taken. It will be done. Enough is enough. The perps have been identified, and they will be the first to respond, or else they will just shut up and let us go about our business. To the troublemakers-- this is your final public warning. Any more spamming or trolling will result in your banning from the Matrix forums. If this is done, and you come back under a different name, I will simply delete your posts. This crap has to stop, now. I try to hold my temper here since this post is so out of line. You are just trying to convince more casual readers with your questionable political rhetorics, which reminds me of Fascism or Bolshevism, that there are three identified terrorists here who try to hamper the work of the OOB-team. That is just BS. You can FE check my posts about T-34s and improved aircrafts and see that they are no spam, but pointing out concerns about the current OOB, and backed by facts. My agenda has been to point out more or less obvious errors in the OOBs, keeping in mind that historical realism, within the game limits, is the goal of the game. If it is not, then it has been just waste of time, and I should apologize.

KG Erwin -> RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions (3/4/2004 5:12:41 PM)
Ok, gentlemen. Since we've reached an impasse here, I have no choice but to lock this thread. I've informed the OOB Team, so we will wait until the dust settles, and then start over. My apologies to those who have attempted to make positive contributions.

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