RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions

RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions (Full Version)

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Rune Iversen -> RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions (2/28/2004 11:23:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Goblin Every version since 4.5 that came out, I have greeted positively. 4.5 -This is the greatest game ever!!! 5.0 -Internet- Awesome! 5.2, 5.3+?- Great! 6.1- Hmm, some changes that seem bad, but screw it, awesome anyways!! 7- Same as 6.1, but I love it! 7.1- More of the same. Changes, yes, but its great! 8.0- Hmm, they know about all the mistakes from before, and all the errors found by us during testing of MCSE, so this is gonna be the best ever!!! Then? WTF?!? This has to be an error!! They issued the wrong version or something! Nope. I want it established that I am not an OOB basher. People are sure to think I am. I have played and loved every version up until now. But I sure as hell am going to speak up now. I refuse to play with players that send me OOB's of their making with stats like this stuff in it, so I don't want this kind of thing the 'official' version that all players are stuck using. eric Yeah, I feel the same. The true jewel of WaW is in the armor engine with it´s sophisticated rendtion of vehicle damage and repairs, which is lightyears ahead of WW2 (or MBT for that matter). Now that the current OOB team has turned that into Haggis I see no reason to play WaW

harlekwin -> RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions (2/28/2004 11:27:15 PM)
Yeah when you play games with the ballistics values in order to "make the right armies" macho you sort of ruin the whole armor system.... another reason we were once implicitly told not to change values lightly.

KG Erwin -> RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions (2/28/2004 11:36:06 PM)
Harlekwin, no, I wasn't there. Neither were you. In any case, I will stand by my beliefs, both here and at the Depot. I have a specific role to play here, and you know that. It is perfectly logical for me to separate my personal opinions vis a vis my responsibilities, and this is the correct course for me to take. So, my "bully pulpit" isn't here--that would be taking advantage of my position. Nothing that my Gunny Erwin alter ego stated at the Depot was intended to be as a "nattering nabob of negativism". That role is being played out by others. I never thought I'd use a term from Spiro Agnew, but there it is. I find some ironic humor in that.

Goblin -> RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions (2/28/2004 11:37:32 PM)
I would be just as negative about watching my house burn down and being unable to stop it. Same thing. Goblin

Rune Iversen -> RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions (2/28/2004 11:38:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KG Erwin Harlekwin, no, I wasn't there. Neither were you. In any case, I will stand by my beliefs, both here and at the Depot. I have a specific role to play here, and you know that. It is perfectly logical for me to separate my personal opinions vis a vis my responsibilities, and this is the correct course for me to take. So, my "bully pulpit" isn't here--that would be taking advantage of my position. Nothing that my Gunny Erwin alter ego stated at the Depot was intended to be as a "nattering nabob of negativism". That role is being played out by others. I never thought I'd use a term from Spiro Agnew, but there it is. I find some ironic humor in that. Does this mean that you won´t answer any of the legitimate points that has been put forward so far?

Goblin -> RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions (2/28/2004 11:40:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rune Iversen quote: ORIGINAL: KG Erwin Harlekwin, no, I wasn't there. Neither were you. In any case, I will stand by my beliefs, both here and at the Depot. I have a specific role to play here, and you know that. It is perfectly logical for me to separate my personal opinions vis a vis my responsibilities, and this is the correct course for me to take. So, my "bully pulpit" isn't here--that would be taking advantage of my position. Nothing that my Gunny Erwin alter ego stated at the Depot was intended to be as a "nattering nabob of negativism". That role is being played out by others. I never thought I'd use a term from Spiro Agnew, but there it is. I find some ironic humor in that. Does this mean that you won´t answer any of the legitimate points that has been put forward so far? Guys, in Gunny's defense, he is only speaking for the OOB team because they won't do it. He did not sign on as a spokesperson for them, they stuck him with it because he is (pardon me, Glenn) sap enough to care about answering us. He could easily have just followed current policy and ignored us. That said, Gunny, you bring alot of fire onto yourself by answering us...[;)] Goblin

harlekwin -> RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions (2/28/2004 11:40:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KG Erwin Harlekwin, no, I wasn't there. Neither were you. In any case, I will stand by my beliefs, both here and at the Depot. I have a specific role to play here, and you know that. It is perfectly logical for me to separate my personal opinions vis a vis my responsibilities, and this is the correct course for me to take. So, my "bully pulpit" isn't here--that would be taking advantage of my position. Nothing that my Gunny Erwin alter ego stated at the Depot was intended to be as a "nattering nabob of negativism". That role is being played out by others. I never thought I'd use a term from Spiro Agnew, but there it is. I find some ironic humor in that. No, but oddly tech specs are seldom guilty of altering themselves. I don't think the 88mm went to 98mm because he started eating like a human being again after the war. So what should OOBs be based on? Idealized myth factoring in unevenly on the tech side of the house or hard technical data with other factors taken care of by EXP/Morale? I will posit that the reason that you are getting complaints about the "gear not being up to snuff" is because people do not use equipment within its envelope and have a poor understanding of the tactics needed to ride that envelope the best. but since EVERY spwaw player thinks they are a genius at tactics who could school Rommel et al it MUST be that the OOBs need a tweaking'.... regards, sven

KG Erwin -> RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions (2/28/2004 11:42:24 PM)
Let me make one thing perfectly clear (oh my, I'm quoting another dead Republican)--it's up to the head of the OOB Team (Bryan Melvin), and others on the team to respond to you guys on OOB issues on this forum.

Rune Iversen -> RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions (2/28/2004 11:42:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KG Erwin Let me make one thing perfectly clear (oh my, I'm quoting another dead Republican)--it's up to the head of the OOB Team (Bryan Melvin), and others on the team to respond to you guys on OOB issues on this forum. Then why don´t they? You are dodging the issue here.

Goblin -> RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions (2/28/2004 11:45:14 PM)
They don't because the whole list of OOB changes are 'right'.[X(] Goblin

harlekwin -> RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions (2/28/2004 11:45:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rune Iversen quote: ORIGINAL: KG Erwin Let me make one thing perfectly clear (oh my, I'm quoting another dead Republican)--it's up to the head of the OOB Team (Bryan Melvin), and others on the team to respond to you guys on OOB issues on this forum. Then why don´t they? You are dodging the issue here. they are too busy making the batter for the cookies.... don't you retain anything you read? These OOBs are NOT subject to review or testing by mere human being outsiders until they are consecrated "official".

Rune Iversen -> RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions (2/28/2004 11:48:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Goblin They don't because the whole list of OOB changes are 'right'.[X(] Goblin Well, given the nature of artfull dodging taking place I tend to agree with you

Goblin -> RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions (2/28/2004 11:50:05 PM)
It doesn't 'feel' like you agree with them, watch it... Goblin[X(]

Rune Iversen -> RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions (2/29/2004 12:00:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Goblin It doesn't 'feel' like you agree with them, watch it... Goblin[X(] I can take care of myself[:D] [image]http://indyfan.com/gallery/wander/raiders/boulder.jpg[/image]

KG Erwin -> RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions (2/29/2004 12:15:25 AM)
Goblin, my friend, you were asked to look these over, and you said no. You're my friend, but you have just closed the door on playing a part in testing these OOBs by an outside observer. What does this tell me? Simply that you, amongst others, have predetermined that you will not like the changes no matter how well-researched or thought-out they are. As a moderator, this is confusing and disappointing. Nevertheless, discussion is encouraged. We're all concerned about the same thing, but are just disagreeing on the way to go about it. You guys are doing well, and keeping this discussion on a civil level. That's all that I ask for. Otherwise, have at it.

Rune Iversen -> RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions (2/29/2004 12:17:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KG Erwin Goblin, my friend, you were asked to look these over, and you said no. You're my friend, but you have just closed the door on playing a part in testing these OOBs by an outside observer. What does this tell me? Simply that you, amongst others, have predetermined that you will not like the changes no matter how well-researched or thought-out they are. As a moderator, this is confusing and disappointing. Nevertheless, discussion is encouraged. We're all concerned about the same thing, but are just disagreeing on the way to go about it. You guys are doing well, and keeping this discussion on a civil level. That's all that I ask for. Otherwise, have at it. It tells me that the OOB team is getting desperate in trying to cover up their half assed job. Tell me, just what would the price be in order to get a peek at those much vaunted OOBs? Are you afraid of criticism and if not, why is the proposed changes not put up for discussion?

KG Erwin -> RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions (2/29/2004 12:18:03 AM)
Rune, that was fired by an LMG, wasn't it? [:D] quote: ORIGINAL: Rune Iversen quote: ORIGINAL: Goblin It doesn't 'feel' like you agree with them, watch it... Goblin[X(] I can take care of myself[:D] [image]http://indyfan.com/gallery/wander/raiders/boulder.jpg[/image]

Rune Iversen -> RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions (2/29/2004 12:19:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KG Erwin Rune, that was fired by an LMG, wasn't it? [:D] quote: ORIGINAL: Rune Iversen quote: ORIGINAL: Goblin It doesn't 'feel' like you agree with them, watch it... Goblin[X(] I can take care of myself[:D] [image]http://indyfan.com/gallery/wander/raiders/boulder.jpg[/image] We academics have our ways....

harlekwin -> RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions (2/29/2004 12:21:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Goblin quote: ORIGINAL: Rune Iversen quote: ORIGINAL: KG Erwin Harlekwin, no, I wasn't there. Neither were you. In any case, I will stand by my beliefs, both here and at the Depot. I have a specific role to play here, and you know that. It is perfectly logical for me to separate my personal opinions vis a vis my responsibilities, and this is the correct course for me to take. So, my "bully pulpit" isn't here--that would be taking advantage of my position. Nothing that my Gunny Erwin alter ego stated at the Depot was intended to be as a "nattering nabob of negativism". That role is being played out by others. I never thought I'd use a term from Spiro Agnew, but there it is. I find some ironic humor in that. Does this mean that you won´t answer any of the legitimate points that has been put forward so far? Guys, in Gunny's defense, he is only speaking for the OOB team because they won't do it. He did not sign on as a spokesperson for them, they stuck him with it because he is (pardon me, Glenn) sap enough to care about answering us. He could easily have just followed current policy and ignored us. That said, Gunny, you bring alot of fire onto yourself by answering us...[;)] Goblin Oh I understand that reality. Erwin at least has the testicular fortitude to face criticism, and stand reference when asked (ie Garands). No the silence of the "wizards" is deafening.

KG Erwin -> RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions (2/29/2004 12:22:18 AM)
Hmmm---do you have any good-looking sisters or cousins? Are they at least 15? Scratch that. 18? [sm=00000619.gif] quote: ORIGINAL: Rune Iversen quote: ORIGINAL: KG Erwin Goblin, my friend, you were asked to look these over, and you said no. You're my friend, but you have just closed the door on playing a part in testing these OOBs by an outside observer. What does this tell me? Simply that you, amongst others, have predetermined that you will not like the changes no matter how well-researched or thought-out they are. As a moderator, this is confusing and disappointing. Nevertheless, discussion is encouraged. We're all concerned about the same thing, but are just disagreeing on the way to go about it. You guys are doing well, and keeping this discussion on a civil level. That's all that I ask for. Otherwise, have at it. It tells me that the OOB team is getting desperate in trying to cover up their half assed job. Tell me, just what would the price be in order to get a peek at those much vaunted OOBs? Are you afraid of criticism and if not, why is the proposed changes not put up for discussion?

Goblin -> RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions (2/29/2004 12:25:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KG Erwin Goblin, my friend, you were asked to look these over, and you said no. You're my friend, but you have just closed the door on playing a part in testing these OOBs by an outside observer. What does this tell me? Simply that you, amongst others, have predetermined that you will not like the changes no matter how well-researched or thought-out they are. As a moderator, this is confusing and disappointing. Nevertheless, discussion is encouraged. We're all concerned about the same thing, but are just disagreeing on the way to go about it. You guys are doing well, and keeping this discussion on a civil level. That's all that I ask for. Otherwise, have at it. Well researched and thought out?!!?!?!?!?!?!?! Did you read what you typed? I will tell you now why I turned you down. We were asked to review the OOB's while playtesting MCSE, and report mistakes. I did. I played 3 campaigns for 40+ battles, all with armor, and was told that my findings on the track-busting MG's were not what others were finding, I must be wrong. Other reported it also. I and others reported the nuclear bazookas, etc etc etc. All of it must have been mistakes, and it was all 'right'. After I really turned up the emails, I was then invited to help refine the errors before release. Great! I spent craploads of my time finding and reporting errors. During all of this, the rest of the MCSE team was not even allowed to see the OOB's after their revisions. Then I get an email saying 'sorry about it, its all final and turned in'. Hmmm. It was only my time. After wasting all of that time, They come out like they did, with the errors and more. Now you want me to go round two? I'm not an idiot. Goblin

Rune Iversen -> RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions (2/29/2004 12:25:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KG Erwin Hmmm---do you have any good-looking sisters or cousins? Are they at least 15? Scratch that. 18? [sm=00000619.gif] quote: ORIGINAL: Rune Iversen quote: ORIGINAL: KG Erwin Goblin, my friend, you were asked to look these over, and you said no. You're my friend, but you have just closed the door on playing a part in testing these OOBs by an outside observer. What does this tell me? Simply that you, amongst others, have predetermined that you will not like the changes no matter how well-researched or thought-out they are. As a moderator, this is confusing and disappointing. Nevertheless, discussion is encouraged. We're all concerned about the same thing, but are just disagreeing on the way to go about it. You guys are doing well, and keeping this discussion on a civil level. That's all that I ask for. Otherwise, have at it. It tells me that the OOB team is getting desperate in trying to cover up their half assed job. Tell me, just what would the price be in order to get a peek at those much vaunted OOBs? Are you afraid of criticism and if not, why is the proposed changes not put up for discussion? No, but if you could get Stuart Millis or Melvin or some of the other "Grand Wizards" to answer our queries you would help yourself greatly. For better or worse people see YOU as the person behind these Disneyland changes.

Goblin -> RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions (2/29/2004 12:26:22 AM)
Rune, other things that the OOB team didn't like have disappeared...[;)] Goblin

KG Erwin -> RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions (2/29/2004 12:30:34 AM)
Sap? Hardly. I just like talking to you guys--this keeps me from eating or sleeping or all those other normal human activities--wait a minute, where did my pee-bucket go? Oh, well--mind if I go the bathroom? (aaaaaahhh). quote: ORIGINAL: harlekwin quote: ORIGINAL: Goblin quote: ORIGINAL: Rune Iversen quote: ORIGINAL: KG Erwin Harlekwin, no, I wasn't there. Neither were you. In any case, I will stand by my beliefs, both here and at the Depot. I have a specific role to play here, and you know that. It is perfectly logical for me to separate my personal opinions vis a vis my responsibilities, and this is the correct course for me to take. So, my "bully pulpit" isn't here--that would be taking advantage of my position. Nothing that my Gunny Erwin alter ego stated at the Depot was intended to be as a "nattering nabob of negativism". That role is being played out by others. I never thought I'd use a term from Spiro Agnew, but there it is. I find some ironic humor in that. Does this mean that you won´t answer any of the legitimate points that has been put forward so far? Guys, in Gunny's defense, he is only speaking for the OOB team because they won't do it. He did not sign on as a spokesperson for them, they stuck him with it because he is (pardon me, Glenn) sap enough to care about answering us. He could easily have just followed current policy and ignored us. That said, Gunny, you bring alot of fire onto yourself by answering us...[;)] Goblin Oh I understand that reality. Erwin at least has the testicular fortitude to face criticism, and stand reference when asked (ie Garands). No the silence of the "wizards" is deafening.

Rune Iversen -> RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions (2/29/2004 12:34:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Goblin Rune, other things that the OOB team didn't like have disappeared...[;)] Goblin Ï know[:D] [image]http://indyfan.com/gallery/wander/raiders/meetbelloq.jpg[/image]

KG Erwin -> RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions (2/29/2004 12:36:01 AM)
All right, you guys are cutting into my partying time--I just bought the "Band of Brothers " DVD box set, and a 12-pack of Heineken--you guys behave yourselves, and I'll see you later. [sm=party-smiley-012.gif]

Rune Iversen -> RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions (2/29/2004 12:37:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KG Erwin All right, you guys are cutting into my partying time--I just bought the "Band of Brothers " DVD box set, and a 12-pack of Heineken--you guys behave yourselves, and I'll see you later. [sm=party-smiley-012.gif] Send our regards to Stuart and Melvin[;)]

JJKettunen -> RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions (2/29/2004 12:40:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KG Erwin All right, you guys are cutting into my partying time--I just bought the "Band of Brothers " DVD box set, and a 12-pack of Heineken--you guys behave yourselves, and I'll see you later. [sm=party-smiley-012.gif] Speaking of BOB, I was really dissapointed about...err...nevermind. [:'(]

Goblin -> RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions (2/29/2004 12:47:37 AM)
KG, you also mentioned that I am determined to dislike the OOB's, no matter what. I do dislike the changes that have been made thus far, because they appear to involve two six-sided dice and a pencil... Goblin

JJKettunen -> RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions (2/29/2004 12:52:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Goblin KG, you also mentioned that I am determined to dislike the OOB's, no matter what. I do dislike the changes that have been made thus far, because they appear to involve two six-sided dice and a pencil... If you're not with us, you're against us. Naysayers be damned! [;)]

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