SP2WW2v6.1 versus SPWAWv8.1 (Full Version)

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Robert J. Smead -> SP2WW2v6.1 versus SPWAWv8.1 (2/27/2004 1:27:49 AM)

Hello. Used to play 7.1; I gave it up in favor of SP2WW2v6.1. Need input regarding which is better, I am considering getting version 8.1.

SP2WW2 does seem to have better auto generated maps for example and OOB's are better. SPWAW has better mechanics of game setup and play. I do think that vehicle movement is too great in SPWAW. Any additional comments?

Also, ran into people playing SPWAW PEBM games who had increased their unit capabilities. Is there a way to easilly discern whether this has been done? In these cases such had not been agreed to during the set up.



VikingNo2 -> RE: SP2WW2v6.1 versus SPWAWv8.1 (2/27/2004 1:40:51 AM)

The quickest way to tell is if you get the OOB corrupt message, it doesn't mean they have increased anything but it means they have different OOB's than you. Hope this answeres your question.

As for a comparison can't help you, I have never played SP2ww2. SPWAW 8.2 will be up very soon I think it will be very good. I recomend downloading H2H from panzer Leos site. Currently I play H2H, 8.01 and 7.1 and like them all if 8.2 has the changes as advertised I will replace 7.1 with it.



Buzzard45 -> RE: SP2WW2v6.1 versus SPWAWv8.1 (2/27/2004 5:39:19 AM)

I don't know that you can check what OOBs that they are using.

I gave up SPWW2 because it crashed too often and if you did anything at all wrong you lost the ability to play on with taht match. If you are worried about the OOB thing here make sure that you share your OOB before the set up. You can send yours to your partner or they to you. If OOB errors show up later then there is a problem.

Warning: Any game set up by a third party or any game involving more than two people will always have OOB errors.

I liked many things about SPWW2 over SPWaW. The bigggest is that the game engine is based on the 50 metre hex size and not a 200 metre hex size inherited from SP3 that SPaW is based on. I like VCR in SPwaw better than the one in SPWW2 and have mixed feelings about the * and #. SPWW2 tended to be more historically accurate IMHO than SPWaW. Combat was more fair it seemed. I get frustrated that a tank in the same hex with an enemy tank at 0 range has a hit chance of 8% because it doesn't have the moral or experience to do better. I also get frustrated at the Pen ratings and armor ratings. Many times I'll hit a vehicle with enough penetration power but suddenly the armour rating is way over maximun and has no effect or even if it is above the reported armor rating it still no effect. I think SPWW2 did this much better.

But if the game doesn't play..... the rest doesn't matter. My experiences are based on several versions ago in SPWW2. It also helps that SPWaW is a stand alone game that you can pass on to your buddies. I never did that with SPWW2.

Both game are far superior to their base games. I never did like SP3 and the modern battles held little interest for me. I do like the recon planes that the modern battle helicopter evolved into in SPWW2. You could drive them around the board and look for targets and if you were too high or too low, you got shot down by AA. SPWaW has no such feature available.

They both are good games. I choose to stick with this one. I like the players.

As for 8.1 or 8.2. Well, honestly, and I hate say it but I'm dissappointed that it wasn't a finished product. The fact that there is an 8.2 after only a month or two is reason enough to doubt the accuracy of the changes. I know its free and I'm grateful that someone has given their time and efforts that I might enjoy some fun. Its just that....well, have you ever tried to play basketball with a brand new Christmas present ball that doesn't enough air in it? Yep , you'll get the air, but should you have to?



Warrior2 -> RE: SP2WW2v6.1 versus SPWAWv8.1 (2/27/2004 2:40:59 PM)

I'm confused. You need other people to tell you which game you like better?



Belisarius -> RE: SP2WW2v6.1 versus SPWAWv8.1 (2/27/2004 3:21:54 PM)

In PBEM, it's just to check the preferences menu. If the opponent has tweaked his units using that, you'll see it.

I've never heard of it being done, though. [&:] The usual way to avoid this is - dont play with people you don't trust.



arethusa -> RE: SP2WW2v6.1 versus SPWAWv8.1 (2/27/2004 9:18:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Buzzard45

I liked many things about SPWW2 over SPWaW. The bigggest is that the game engine is based on the 50 metre hex size and not a 200 metre hex size inherited from SP3 that SPaW is based on. I like VCR in SPwaw better than the one in SPWW2 and have mixed feelings about the * and #. SPWW2 tended to be more historically accurate IMHO than SPWaW. Combat was more fair it seemed. I get frustrated that a tank in the same hex with an enemy tank at 0 range has a hit chance of 8% because it doesn't have the moral or experience to do better.



I think the reason getting a low hit probability with a 0 range in tanks is that if they're close enough, the turrets can't traverse fast enough to keep up with a moving tank. A target going 30mph at a distance of 1/2 mile hardly seems to be moving at all and is easy to get a bead on. The same target going the same speed 20 feet away from you is almost impossible to track with a turret in RL.



john g -> RE: SP2WW2v6.1 versus SPWAWv8.1 (2/28/2004 7:12:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Buzzard45

As for 8.1 or 8.2. Well, honestly, and I hate say it but I'm dissappointed that it wasn't a finished product. The fact that there is an 8.2 after only a month or two is reason enough to doubt the accuracy of the changes. I know its free and I'm grateful that someone has given their time and efforts that I might enjoy some fun. Its just that....well, have you ever tried to play basketball with a brand new Christmas present ball that doesn't enough air in it? Yep , you'll get the air, but should you have to?


So I guess you are also disappointed that windows isn't a finished product? After all they are on which revision of windows now?

And Cars, they keep coming out with new models each year, you would figure after 100 years of making cars they could finally get it right and sell the same car from then on.

[:)]

Honestly, I like v8.1, I like v7.1, I liked v4.3b, v2.3, and v1.0. There hasn't been a version of SPWAW that I haven't liked. I guess the concept of a labor of love is lost on you, remember they don't even get paid for all this work. If thine eye offends thee, pluck it out.



Gavris Narcis -> RE: SP2WW2v6.1 versus SPWAWv8.1 (2/28/2004 9:54:15 AM)

SPWW2 have many good things. Tough SPWAW is more good from distance. MANY TIMES I speak that if the team guys of SPWAW import some features of SPWW2, the game will be at least 50% more good.
The SPWW2 have more good and accurate OOB's. That's true.
Other thing which I remark good in SPWW2 is that the hitting chance for an AA unit is more flexible and accurate. For example, SPWAW have an incredible bad implementation of the AA units, all have almost fixed percent hiting chance (this is aprox. 8%), no matter the planes is aproaching, no matter the quality of the AA crew, no matter the firing unit, etc. Not long ago I gave an airplane which was fired by 2 units from the same hex, an infantry unit and an 37 mm AA, and both have 8% hit chance ! It's wrong. Something had to be changed here.


On the other way, SPWW2 have more unit categories (aprox. 200), and all are implemented. For example, SPWAW have categories which are present and not (good)implemented. An example, is the helicopter category. In SPWW2 an helicopter can be fired with only the AA weapons, but in SPWAW it can be fired with all wepons, even grenades and assaultings !!?
Other extremely good points for SPWW2 is the more rooms for units in OOB's. They have now 600 slots, and SPWAW only 255, which is not enough. I think even 1500 isn't enough because to develop the game in the good direction, on german side we need more than 1500 free slots to
input all types of weapons/units/ammo. The most visible example, is the german OOB and the airplane section which is a great shame.
I work personally for Romania OOB, airplane section, and until now I have at least 30 slot ocupied (excluded the level bombers, the recon, observers, etc.).


Leo.



Warrior2 -> RE: SP2WW2v6.1 versus SPWAWv8.1 (2/28/2004 2:48:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gavris Narcis

SPWW2 have many good things. Tough SPWAW is more good from distance. MANY TIMES I speak that if the team guys of SPWAW import some features of SPWW2, the game will be at least 50% more good.
The SPWW2 have more good and accurate OOB's. That's true.
Other thing which I remark good in SPWW2 is that the hitting chance for an AA unit is more flexible and accurate. For example, SPWAW have an incredible bad implementation of the AA units, all have almost fixed percent hiting chance (this is aprox. 8%), no matter the planes is aproaching, no matter the quality of the AA crew, no matter the firing unit, etc. Not long ago I gave an airplane which was fired by 2 units from the same hex, an infantry unit and an 37 mm AA, and both have 8% hit chance ! It's wrong. Something had to be changed here.


On the other way, SPWW2 have more unit categories (aprox. 200), and all are implemented. For example, SPWAW have categories which are present and not (good)implemented. An example, is the helicopter category. In SPWW2 an helicopter can be fired with only the AA weapons, but in SPWAW it can be fired with all wepons, even grenades and assaultings !!?
Other extremely good points for SPWW2 is the more rooms for units in OOB's. They have now 600 slots, and SPWAW only 255, which is not enough. I think even 1500 isn't enough because to develop the game in the good direction, on german side we need more than 1500 free slots to
input all types of weapons/units/ammo. The most visible example, is the german OOB and the airplane section which is a great shame.
I work personally for Romania OOB, airplane section, and until now I have at least 30 slot ocupied (excluded the level bombers, the recon, observers, etc.).

Leo.


Kindly go play your SPWW2 in the middle of the nearest freeway.



JJKettunen -> RE: SP2WW2v6.1 versus SPWAWv8.1 (2/28/2004 3:05:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Warrior

Kindly go play your SPWW2 in the middle of the nearest freeway.


[8|]



Rune Iversen -> RE: SP2WW2v6.1 versus SPWAWv8.1 (2/28/2004 3:53:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Warrior

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gavris Narcis

SPWW2 have many good things. Tough SPWAW is more good from distance. MANY TIMES I speak that if the team guys of SPWAW import some features of SPWW2, the game will be at least 50% more good.
The SPWW2 have more good and accurate OOB's. That's true.
Other thing which I remark good in SPWW2 is that the hitting chance for an AA unit is more flexible and accurate. For example, SPWAW have an incredible bad implementation of the AA units, all have almost fixed percent hiting chance (this is aprox. 8%), no matter the planes is aproaching, no matter the quality of the AA crew, no matter the firing unit, etc. Not long ago I gave an airplane which was fired by 2 units from the same hex, an infantry unit and an 37 mm AA, and both have 8% hit chance ! It's wrong. Something had to be changed here.


On the other way, SPWW2 have more unit categories (aprox. 200), and all are implemented. For example, SPWAW have categories which are present and not (good)implemented. An example, is the helicopter category. In SPWW2 an helicopter can be fired with only the AA weapons, but in SPWAW it can be fired with all wepons, even grenades and assaultings !!?
Other extremely good points for SPWW2 is the more rooms for units in OOB's. They have now 600 slots, and SPWAW only 255, which is not enough. I think even 1500 isn't enough because to develop the game in the good direction, on german side we need more than 1500 free slots to
input all types of weapons/units/ammo. The most visible example, is the german OOB and the airplane section which is a great shame.
I work personally for Romania OOB, airplane section, and until now I have at least 30 slot ocupied (excluded the level bombers, the recon, observers, etc.).

Leo.


Kindly go play your SPWW2 in the middle of the nearest freeway.


With WaW ****ed up by the Spec. Ed. Class I just might.



harlekwin -> RE: SP2WW2v6.1 versus SPWAWv8.1 (2/28/2004 3:55:14 PM)

Now Rune be nice. Remf is a good guy who is a little frustrated at the "critical acclaim" 8.x+ is getting. Also he likely has dealt with more of Gavris' "Breakthrows" than we have lately.

regards,
sven



Rune Iversen -> RE: SP2WW2v6.1 versus SPWAWv8.1 (2/28/2004 3:57:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: harlekwin

Now Rune be nice. Remf is a good guy who is a little frustrated at the "critical acclaim" 8.x+ is getting. Also he likely has dealt with more of Gavris' "Breakthrows" than we have lately.

regards,
sven


Well, I think I will let it go then [;)]



Buzzard45 -> RE: SP2WW2v6.1 versus SPWAWv8.1 (2/28/2004 4:20:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: john g


So I guess you are also disappointed that windows isn't a finished product? After all they are on which revision of windows now?

And Cars, they keep coming out with new models each year, you would figure after 100 years of making cars they could finally get it right and sell the same car from then on.

[:)]

Honestly, I like v8.1, I like v7.1, I liked v4.3b, v2.3, and v1.0. There hasn't been a version of SPWAW that I haven't liked. I guess the concept of a labor of love is lost on you, remember they don't even get paid for all this work. If thine eye offends thee, pluck it out.


Now this was not polite. Mr Spock would raise his eyebrows at you.



Warrior2 -> RE: SP2WW2v6.1 versus SPWAWv8.1 (2/29/2004 5:27:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rune Iversen

quote:

ORIGINAL: harlekwin

Now Rune be nice. Remf is a good guy who is a little frustrated at the "critical acclaim" 8.x+ is getting. Also he likely has dealt with more of Gavris' "Breakthrows" than we have lately.

regards,
sven


Well, I think I will let it go then [;)]


I appreciate this, especially after having some glider pilot tell me in a private message that I'm nasty, sarcastic, impolite, and either an idiot or a drunk. I confess without reservation to being all the aforementioned except idiot & drunk. [:D] [:D] [:D]



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