SPWAW v7.0 & Mega Campaigns ?

SPWAW v7.0 & Mega Campaigns ? (Full Version)

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DELTA32 -> SPWAW v7.0 & Mega Campaigns ? (10/12/2001 4:38:00 PM)
Rumor I'm hearing is that Matrix has completely forsaken the game and the Mega Campaign series. Any truth to that ? Delta 3-2

Ross Moorhouse -> (10/12/2001 6:26:00 PM)
Well if you had of read some of Wild Bills posts he was dropping great big hints for the next Mega GC after Lost Victorys. Dont listern to rumours. Thats all they are.

AbsntMndedProf -> (10/12/2001 8:39:00 PM)
From what I gather from reading posts here since I joined the forums, every time a new version of SP:WaW comes out rumors fly that it will be the last one, and that Matrix will abandon SP:WaW. I doubt Matrix would abandon such a poplular game and its mega-campaigns. Eric Maietta

ruxius -> (10/13/2001 3:01:00 AM)
Oh-oh-oh to some guys of you ...I need to ask to some of you one thing : HAVE YOU REALLY exausted to play ALL the scenarios ,ALL the campaigns &megacampaigns ,A VERY GOOD NUMBER OF PBEM and ONLINE games...a TRY with the editor and some rest ? It seems that if even Matrix is going on producing new patches and versions ..YOU have never enough..I mean why do not we let them work and we try to enjoy the HUGE AMOUNT of wonders we actually have to enjoy ? Sorry but I had to say ..if you let me know..

Alby -> (10/14/2001 12:24:00 AM)
quote: Originally posted by DELTA3-2: Rumor I'm hearing is that Matrix has completely forsaken the game and the Mega Campaign series. Any truth to that ? Delta 3-2 Hmm Im begining to wonder, what ever happened to 7.0?

Ross Moorhouse -> (10/14/2001 10:22:00 AM)
Paul Vebber has said that Lost Victories will come with V7 of SP:WaW. So an update from V6.1 should also be up on the SP:WaW updates site once LV is out..

Alby -> (10/15/2001 5:24:00 AM)
well this was last i saw about it, it was originally supposed to be released labor day, then two more weeks, then 2 more weeks, so I know version 7 was supposed to be out before the shipping of the MC, at least i'm pretty sure. dated october 3 Paul Vebber Administrator Member # 24 posted October 03, 2001 01:49 PM "We have had to delay ver 7 another week or so"

DELTA32 -> (10/17/2001 6:41:00 AM)
Odd....nothing from the Matrix boys on this topic. Oh, and don't forget....Wild Bill retired....hmmmm.....he was a prime mover of the game and the MC's. I'm telling you....SPWAW is DEAD regarding any new stuff. MAYBE you'll see Lost Victories. Delta 3-2

Alby -> (10/17/2001 7:35:00 AM)
Got me, I heard from a source i feel is reliable (he works on the MC) that version 7 is now slated for oct 31 release along with lost victorys, plus one more MC due out maybe around Xmas

Randy -> (10/19/2001 11:52:00 AM)
The last I heard was for Oct. 31 also. From what I read the terrorist attack screwed things up, since I guess some of the guys were being mobilized and called up, so I thing Paul or Dave said it would be the end of this month.

LeibstandartePzD -> (10/25/2001 3:37:00 AM)
I was just wondering what the word was on the release of Lost Victories and SPWaW version 7.0? Thanks.

generalrichmond -> (10/25/2001 4:44:00 AM)
Man, if things for SPWaW slow down, that's fine.. Just please don't let it die!! I JUST got into this game!!!!

Grumble -> (10/25/2001 6:05:00 AM)
Well, given the new deals Matrix is striking with designers, seemingly a new one's posted every week, I would think that, yes SPWAW is ending. Matrix's got to make money dudes/dudettes. Paul admitted that Megacampaign NA is NOT generating the revenue they thought it would; ergo they are probably not expecting #2 to do exceedingly well either (perfectly logical business sense). Admittedly that may be due to the buffoonery with the initial mail-order, but the powers-that-be also suspect the exaggerated number of "OH MY GOD A BUG!!" posts on this very forum discouraged would be buyers. [Which oughta be a cautionary note to those who think by screaming bug, they are actually improving the game-you might be hastening its demise...editorial comment] What Paul and Wild Bill were hoping/expecting is that the users would take up the slack and continue release of scenarios/campaigns etc. Matrix isn't totally abandoning the game; just moving it to the back burner for a while-probably a LONG while.

rich12545 -> (10/25/2001 6:52:00 AM)
How much more is really needed. Hopefully the next incarnation will make it bug free. I have over 250 scenarios, a random generator, several campaigns and a third mega campaign coming up. Believe me that will keep me busy for the rest of my life and then some even if they do nothing more. I still can't believe the amount of work these folks put into this game for the pittance from the mega campaigns.

brianleeprice -> (10/25/2001 6:56:00 AM)
Sweeping a problem under the rug does not make it go away. If a person has a problem or happens to encounter an actual bug either this forum or the technical forum seems a logical place to seek help. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see sales go up a bit if version 7 fixes the majority of the bugs. I've twisted the arm of numerous wargaming friends into downloading and trying the game. A few are waiting for the v7 patch before making a final decision. A few were turned off on sp:waw because of bugs and other problems. While I like the UI in general I've found some other more experienced wargamers really don't like it and more than one has complained about the ease of accidently exiting the game during internet play due to the proximity and similarity in the end game/end turn buttons. To the best of my knowledge NOT A SINGLE ONE of the people I've introduced to this game has come to this forum. They all based their buy/not buy/wait/abandon decision on the free sp:waw v6.1 download itself and the experiences of others whom they trust. I believe the lack of commercial success of the mega campaigns is due to the fact that matrix is unable to charge for the basic modified engine itself - having to give the basic sp:waw away for free provides a great game, imo anyhow regardless of any bugs, with very little incentive to purchase expansions. Shipping out MC:NA with known cat 0 and cat 1 bugs didn't help either. Failing to make the v7.x beta patch for the MC:NA bugs easily accessible was a major administrative oversight. Those problems were simply a combination of bad luck and bad marketing decisions and hopefully matrix will learn from them and not repeat them. I'm just hoping that sometime within the next year or so, after they've sold as many MCs as the market will support, they are both willing and able legally to release the sp:waw source code to the public as open source so that any programmers in the wargamming community who enjoy the game can try their hand at fixing any remaining bugs and/or making a few minor improvements here and there. Brian Price

Wild Bill -> (10/25/2001 11:12:00 AM)
Though not an integral part of Matrix, I will continue to support SPWAW game for a long time to come. I've waited too long for the game to reach this point to walk away from it now. As for the word, "abandon," I think that is a little harsh. I don't believe the Matrix Team is going to abandon any of their projects. Laying them aside for awhile to give attention to other things, yes, but I can't see them abandoning an almost three year effort. In regards to me personally, for the last three months,over 30 people and I have been working on a new Mega Campaign called Operation Watchtower 42. This will be the third of the series. I hope it is not the last. MC-W is almost completely done with all bells and whistles attached. As a lover of SPWAW and one who also immensely enjoys both Mega Campaigns and the Pacific theater, this one will be really good. Bruce Hodgman and Steve Avery as assistants and team captains have done a superb job of working with me in coordinating the design of 71 scenarios for this campaign. Marketing issues and products are matters about which I know little. Enjoying and looking for ways to help others enjoy a game is what I like to do. And it is what I hope to continue to do. I'm sure Matrix has some great things in store for you. Hang in there, team! Wild Bill

ruxius -> (10/25/2001 11:12:00 PM)
DADDY WB !!! Your presence here is always an health bonus for many of us ! Good words...I do not think they can abandon SPWAW but it is obvious now it is time to pull efforts towards the natural evolution of this game that they name as CL We have been provided so much SPWAW 'food' that we can not starve for a long time also SPWAW has been enhanced with houndreds of new issues so we can also make a stop for a while... I can not believe the majority of us had already explored all the OOB all the scenarios the campaigns the support programs..ecc.ecc. In the meanwhile they are moving their primary attention to other goals within the same big project.... It' a kind of growth we have to expect now..

DoubleDeuce -> (10/25/2001 11:49:00 PM)
quote: Originally posted by Wild Bill: Though not an integral part of Matrix, I will continue to support SPWAW game for a long time to come. Wild Bill I think now is the time for us "players" to step forward. Matrix has given us the foundation and it is up to us to add to it. Campaigns, scenarios, tournaments and more will continue to keep this game alive and it will fall to us to do that while Matrix works on new projects. The possibilities are endless and limited only by our imaginations and hard work. Are you doing your part?

Paul Vebber -> (10/26/2001 4:12:00 AM)
AS I've said several times, recent events have reduced the time available to several key individuals involved in the Lost Victories/SPWaW v7 end game and delayed it. Beyond our control, what can I say? We hope to be around the bend here shortly but we are not making any official announcements about when it will be released. We are getting finished as soon as we can, but there are only 24 hours in a day. Lost Victories and SP:WaW v7 is coming but we can't say for certain when. We hope by the end of the month, but it depends on the ability of the key people involved to get it done, and right now we can't control that entirely. As to the "bugs" problem, I've written missives about the problems with making a silk purse out of a sows ear before. There is only so far we can go to take a 5 year old DOS game and make it competitive with current expectations. I am currently spending most of my time working on Combat Leader - a fresh ground up rework is the only way to solve the "bug" problem - (most of which aren't, they are limitations in the engine to meet players preconceived notion about how things should work, but I've given up trying to argue about it...) I would be interested in hearing what show stopping bugs are still present that have people tossing the game - the exit button is too close to the end turn button...you've got to be kidding me?? There are some latency issues with the online game producing out of sequence results. Happens to most flight sims too. There are odd problems with occassionally teh game being warped by some fluke of windowsinto teh wrong play mode, cuasing timers to appear and online type problems to crop up in non-online play. None of these problems has been repeatable, or a significant detraction form play (you exit the game reboot your computer and try again). There are several hundred thoussands data elements in the OOBS, some of which are wrong. Efforts to discuss what is "right" has produced threads hundreds of posts long on what "right" is. The answer is ALL teh data in the OOBs is "wrong" because NOBODY knows what the "real" metrics should be. SO OOB "bugs" range from typos to disagreements, but in all cases are easily changed by the user. Similarly the vast majority of "bugs" regarding combat results can be addressed using the pref settings. There was a window of nearly 2 months where I sent the MC:NA patch to anyone who asked for it. Not many did. If more had we more had we might have handled it differently, damned if we do, damned if we don't post it. What are the "Known cat 0 and cat 1 bugs" did we shipped MC:NA with? I've explained the "time rate of bug discovery" several times. 50 guys play testing for 200 hours find 10,000 play hours worth of bugs, 1000 players playing 10 hours find those same number of bugs in 1 day. PLayers want the game now, we either delay it forever and sell nothing, or fix the bugs we know about in teh time we have and "know" that more bugs will found, but the more complex the software, the more intractable the bug hunt becomes. The "Bug" issues are not about "sweeping things under the bug" but what has become a 24/7 job to constantly respond to reports of "strange things happening" reported as the game being "broken". Repeating the responses for the upteenth time. While obviously there is a need to report "real" bugs, there is a grain of truth I think to the tone and content of many posts "killing the goose that lays the golden egg". That is a problem that is not going to go away, and it will take continued education of the gaming community about the issues with games of increasing complexity, being increasingly IMPOSSIBLE to bug-proof. My open participation and level of engagement on this forum was in many ways an experiment. At times my presence here was almost 24/7. From a business standpoint that experiment was effectively a failure. That level of effort was not rewarded in a business sense, so there is little incentive to continue, or repeat it. Well we did our best on SP and the MC's. The players have spoken with their wallets and the answer is - move on. They have kept us afloat, and for that we thank those of you who stuck with us. We will continue to support SP:WaW with periodic bug fixes - but not on the scale we have - don't expect a 7.1 for at least a year, we just have too many potentially paying projects now to guild the lilly on something that the community is not supporting with their wallets, what ever the reason. We went WAY overboard supporting the game in the hopes teh community would respond. a few of you did and we are very thankful, but most out there did not. Maybe because we suck. Maybe because the game sucks. That is for you folks to argue about. I am going to work my butt off the next few months to make Combat Leader the best game I can make it. You will either reward that effort, or not. Those of you comparing wargames and wargaming companies with "mainstream" games better adjust your expectaions though, because wargames will NEVER be comparable to mainstream games. We working to get as close as we can, and we hope to improve. SP:WaW has been a large part of my life the last 6 or 7 years, but its time to move on. COmbat Leader is shaping up nicely and there is much to be done there. Here's hoisting a cold one to those of you who have supported the effort, contributed to making the great game many feel it is. I'm no longer involved in SP:WaW development. To those of you that feel the game sucks, well, hopefully you will find the new games more to your liking. We can't please everyone though. Some will always be disappointed. The torch is passed. You folks have demonstrated you can carry on smartly. The leaders are out there, you know who you are. Those of you who say that content on a forum like this has little influence on the buying habits, appear to be correct. I had hoped that was not the case, and apparantly wasted far more time than I should have trying to prove it wrong, but the proof is in the bank, and it appears that presence on a forum like this is not a very good time investment. Feel free to prove me wrong...I hope eventually someone does, but for now I have a lot of work to do and will be around the Combat Leader and Close Assault forums reading your thoughts, PLEASE post them there, I will be reading them, but time spent significantly engaged responding appears not to be time well spent.

john g -> (10/26/2001 4:40:00 AM)
quote: Originally posted by Paul Vebber: AS I've said several times, recent events have reduced the time available to several key individuals involved in the Lost Victories/SPWaW v7 end game and delayed it. Beyond our control, what can I say? Paul, glad to see you back posting, sorry about all your problems and Godspeed with your current project. I for one am still happy with SPWAW, just as I have been since v1.0. If the whiners put as much effort into constructive help as they did in just complaining the game couldn't help but get better. thanks, John.

AlvinS -> (10/26/2001 5:09:00 AM)
Paul Well said. I have played Steel Panthers since the beginning and there is no comparison in quality of the game as we know it now. I for one appreciate the hard work you and others have put into this great game. There are so many ways to enjoy playing this game that a problem in one are will not stop me from playing it. I pre-ordered the Lost Victories campaign and and am patiently waiting for it. I look forward to Combat leader and other games that you are working on. Alvins

Gen.Hoepner -> (10/26/2001 5:11:00 AM)
Well,I must say that Paul is right.Many people here do complains about a free game without spending any money.We all have to understand that Matrix guys are real persons.People who woek and need to earn for their work.It's a service.the forum is a service too,and each service must be paid.The Bug problem.....well I think that everyone here has done his best.Even if I'm still hit by Yugo Bug I'm waiting to buy LV 'cause i do believe in this great project called Matrix.Combat Leader is the future.SPWAW is still the present,and as long as it lasts will be a piece of my heart. Keep on working and keep of having fun with your job Paul!We all believe in YOU! Regards

ruxius -> (10/26/2001 5:58:00 AM)
and BROTHER PAUL ! (I make 'some' difference within my 'family' ONLY because I know you are younger than WB .. ..but both of you are higly esteemed here for your dedication to SPWAW at the same level.. When reading your post I feel very sad..because I discover here one thing I never knew before..I never knew efforts hadn't been succesfull ! (I am talking in 'business' therms) I never doubt the MegaCDs were the primarily way we have to say thank you for what you have done... I bought the first MEGACD and also Firefight I ordered the second MEGACD and stay sure I will not stop to give my support...I will buy the third MEGACD and also Combat LEader is full of expectation for me... What let me down is that now I hear that many of us didn't appreciate the revolution you ,WB, and the MAtrix ,brought here.. "The first time a software house decides to interact with their supporters to enhance its work always and always.." I remember a lot of posts at the beginning which were full of congratulations...but now I understand better ....that topics were written by 45..70 100 fellows...perhaps always the same crew of loyal supporters... How many are we? 100 ? 200 ? 300 ? Give us a number to know... Now I understand what made you write that post....it is that the majority of 4500 readers of this forum didn't deserve what they received... Whiners are not the problem..they are very few..and they had been always contrasted by us , the Loyal ones.. The problem is that the Loyals are not so many.. Gosh ! Now I understand what it may mean to read here only complaints about bugs ...and only a programmer can understand what it means trying to work on a complex source code written by others... I will follow you in the Combat LEader forum since now..I believe this game will be a noble heir of the SPAWAW's tradition..you prooved since the first day this belief ! You prooved since the first day what you CAN DO.. Also WB ..even if he physicallly retired he will always live through this forum and through his scenarios.. Matrix is a 'band of Benefactors' for wargaming community..let me cry it out !! So Good work Paul.. don't forget your loyal supporters.. [ October 25, 2001: Message edited by: ruxius ]

Alby -> (10/26/2001 7:16:00 AM)
quote: Originally posted by AlvinS: Paul Well said. I have played Steel Panthers since the beginning and there is no comparison in quality of the game as we know it now. I for one appreciate the hard work you and others have put into this great game. There are so many ways to enjoy playing this game that a problem in one are will not stop me from playing it. I pre-ordered the Lost Victories campaign and and am patiently waiting for it. I look forward to Combat leader and other games that you are working on. Alvins Ditto from me!!! Paul V, David H, WB just seemed to vanish there for a long while, Glad to see your still out there!!!! We all are like ur children, we need a phone call every now and then hehehheheh. Thanks for all the hard work, as has been stated before, this is the best SP game out there, There are no glaring bugs that I have experienced, So I am more than happy with the way spwaw has gone. Thanks Again

LeibstandartePzD -> (10/26/2001 9:28:00 AM)
I have bought the first MC, have the second and a few t-shirts on preorder and as far as I'm concerned i will buy whatever you put up in the store. We all and by that I mean the gaming public need to do what we can to purchase all we can from Matrix. In the end it is to our benefit because we get a hold of some of the absolutly best games out there. It might sound stupid but I would buy Matrix Games matchbooks if it would help out the company. I realize the people on here are from many different countries, different ages, and from different financial situations but we need to all do our part in supporting Matrix as they have done for us providing us these great games. Heck it's gotten to the point where all I play is SPWaW and Europa Universalis. This will of course change once more Matrix Games are on the market. Anyway off my soap box. I hope I haven't offended anyone. P.S. Let's not forget our nations troops deployed overseas and at home. No matter what country your from show your support for them.

Kilroy -> (10/26/2001 12:29:00 PM)
Never have I experienced wargaming as it is presented by Matrix. Times I've been frustrated with minor bugs and an order delay, however a simple email to Paul, David, or Wild Bill prompted an immediate response. Interaction is what it's all about and I know I'll not find anything better, any where else, any time soon. I could't put a monatery value on the hours of enjoyment I've had with SPWAW, and the wealth of expertise and wisdom which is present on this forum. Ruxius said, and I'll second it, anyone who played every scenario, all the campaigns, including Desert Fox, genereated campaigns, editing ,map making, and all else SPWAW has to offer is one heck of an individual. With 2 more Megs ready to roll and more down the road , things are looking great. Can't wait for Uncommon Valor.

Wild Bill -> (10/26/2001 3:02:00 PM)
Gentlemen, Let me thank you so very much for remembering the old Colonel. I've put many years into this hobby. My #1 goal was to be able to learn, share and enjoy the hobby with other gamers of like mind. Brian, I'm delighted to know MCNA was fun for you in spite of some of the initial coding bugs. I've found just that here at this forum and throughout the years the camaraderie and mutual respect has more than rewarded anything I have done. It's very much appreciated that you guys have enjoyed what we have done. And I'm still here. Like Steel Panthers and the Everready battery, I just keep "going...and going..and going" Wild Bill

gnoccop -> (10/26/2001 3:44:00 PM)
Many thanks to all Matrix staff! Wonderful wargame. Great support from you and the fans. Big (?) companies like EA are lightyears beyond from you in support and post-sales services (they sold beta product and they say are gold and good for sales (like MIcro$oft). I think that Matrix is a very good and serious company! Thak you I'll buy CL (is it possible to preorder NOW? And why not you develop under LINUX?)

brianleeprice -> (10/26/2001 3:48:00 PM)
I had a couple earlier replies after Mr Vebber's post that I ended up deleting because they were either too long and or too forthright. The only thing I'll say is - somebody please give that poor man a vacation. Wild Bill, I've definately become of fan. Any company that provides a canvas for your scenario and campaign design artistry is going to have me as a customer. Brian Price

kurtbj -> (10/26/2001 4:02:00 PM)
I for one have never really experienced any bugs with the game, if there were any they were just one off events that disn't bother me or so small I never noticed. All in all SPWAW is the best computer game I've ever played, I can't think of anything else that has held my attention for so long. Paul V. Sorry to hear that the sales of the MCs were below what you expected. The work you guys have done with Steel Panthers is immense. I'm sure it will be used as the benchmark wargame for many years to come!

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