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YohanTM2 -> renamed: wrong original heading (4/9/2004 5:37:56 AM)
First, let me state that I am always in favour (note the Canadian accent) of delaying a game until it is ready for market. I must also raise the issue that expectations have been set and shattered too many times by Matrix on EiA. The game was tentative for release over a year ago and now is a maybe for late July/early August. Several friends of mine have recently stated (prior to the comment by Heath that we are now into August) that they have moved on and are looking forward to or are already playing new games. Even if Matrix eventually gets this game to market the interest and corresponding willingness to pay a decent $$ for this game are deflated. As this occurs the secondary impact begins to be felt. I will only buy this game (and I still want it) if I can play with gamers I know. And yes I will play with new guys but I still love games with my buddies. So, I may now be out as well. Damn!

donkuchi19 -> RE: Matrix may have blown this game (4/9/2004 7:00:24 AM)
I'll admit that I am getting a little impatient waiting for the release of this game. I haven't been able to play it in so long because of my kids always finding a way to destroy the game once play starts. I can wait a little longer and still plan on buying it. Please get it out soon though!! The withdrawal is getting worse!!!!!

Becket -> RE: Matrix may have blown this game (4/9/2004 6:26:24 PM)
Since this will be my first foray in the Napoleonic era, I'm still very much interested in it.

carnifex -> RE: Matrix may have blown this game (4/9/2004 7:29:20 PM)
People shouldn't worry about when this game is going to be out because there is nothing they can do about it besides demoralize others.

pasternakski -> RE: Matrix may have blown this game (4/9/2004 8:47:56 PM)
What a throughly silly post. You can't blackmail a sincere and honest game developer into releasing a game by mewling from your little corner of the world about how you're not going to buy it. Look at some history. This project started as a fresh attempt to create a turn-based computer simulation of the Napoleonic wars (which was part of its initial title). Some development took place. Then, Matrix cut the deal to "port" EiA to the computer. The projected publishing date information went out the window. You can't fault Matrix for taking the time necessary to develop computer EiA when that was not what the original product was going to be. I personally would have preferred a fresh effort unfettered by the constraints of trying to reproduce a paper-and-cardboard game, but, c'est la vie. Anyone who has "moved on," as you assert, is just cheating himself by purchasing inferior designs on less interesting topics. One last thing. Those on these forums who constantly clamor for release dates, screenshots, and other matter peripheral to the game itself do all of us a disservice. How about discussing games, suggesting features, and engaging in fruitful dialogue? What good is, "Wah wah wah, I want it now or I ain't gonna buy it" to anyone?

Sonny -> RE: Matrix may have blown this game (4/9/2004 9:28:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pasternakski ............................... Anyone who has "moved on," as you assert, is just cheating himself by purchasing inferior designs on less interesting topics. ...................... You mean like Campaigns on the Danube??[:D]

pasternakski -> RE: Matrix may have blown this game (4/9/2004 10:50:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sonny You mean like Campaigns on the Danube??[:D] As Franklin Delano Roosevelt said soon after equipping his family with CB radios, "10-4, Eleanor."

Hanal -> RE: Matrix may have blown this game (4/10/2004 12:40:40 AM)
You know something, developers must wish internet forums were never invented....back in the day, you knew a game was released when you saw it sitting on the shelf in a brick and mortar store...many times you never even knew the game was in the process of being made until you saw it...with conventional military board games from companies like SPI and Avalon Hill, you would see an ad in The General of a pending game and you would simply look for it on one of your forays to The Complete Strategist...if the game wasn't out yet, you simply moved on to something else and waited until it came in.... but to say you wont buy a game because it wasn't released when you wanted it is like cutting off your proverbial nose to spite your face...and if you are honest, who are you kidding?...when the game is released and there are (hopefully) alot of positive comments about it, I would like to see if you and your buddies really will pick up your crayons and go home, rather than buy a game that truly interests you....we all are impatient for this game, even me, but stop fooling yourself...you'll buy it....[8\|]

pasternakski -> RE: Matrix may have blown this game (4/10/2004 1:07:11 AM)
Great post. I remember those times. I thought of myself as some social outcast along the lines of Raskolnikov or Julien Sorel, walking along in my poverty and pea coat into the warmth of a wargame store on a cold Minneapolis day. I had most of the games of interest already, "Waterloo," "Afrika Korps," "Stalingrad," "Gettysburg," "USN," but felt the slight tremor of excitement that a new title would be on the shelves today. Would the War in the Pacific guys be around so that we could play another turn or two? Was the rumor that Avalon Hill had just published a monster game on the Normandy invasion true? "Oh, it seemed like a holy place, protected by amazing grace, Where we could sing right out loud the words we could not say."

Hanal -> RE: Matrix may have blown this game (4/10/2004 2:27:13 AM)
Now if you want to talk about waiting impatiently for a game....for years Avalon Hill was touting the arrival of a pacific version of Third Reich, but it never came to be as it passed on from one developer to another...finally, they did release the game, but man it was one helluva wait!

pasternakski -> RE: Matrix may have blown this game (4/10/2004 2:39:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: J P Falcon Now if you want to talk about waiting impatiently for a game....for years Avalon Hill was touting the arrival of a pacific version of Third Reich, but it never came to be as it passed on from one developer to another...finally, they did release the game, but man it was one helluva wait! Yeah, but you've got to remember what happened to paper-and-cardboard wargaming in the last days of AH. They had literally run out of gas after the Victory Games consortium fell apart. Great games had been produced even though economic ruin loomed over everything. Advanced Third Reich was a farmed-out operation all the way, and the follow-on Empire of the Rising Sun was much anticipated by the 10 or 15 guys who really cared anymore. In the meantime, Hasbro stepped in and brought a screeching halt to everything we held dear. Now, you've got "Third Reich with Axis and Allies combat resolution" and "Gee, I like the plastic miniatures in your grognard strategic WWII simulation." It's a plastic and crap mess over there. I hope it doesn't spill over any more than it already has to serious computer wargaming.

NeverMan -> RE: Matrix may have blown this game (4/10/2004 3:15:38 AM)
Fact is: Matrix bit of more than they can chew. Fact is: This isn't the "good 'ol days". Opinion is: Sometimes I think pasternaski only posts to practice his typing skills, or to see his name on a thread, or to maybe increase his post count?? I don't know. Fact is: EiA is simply BETTER than anything Matrix could have done, so it's a good thing Matrix is "porting" (but not really in my opinion) EiA. Fact is: I don't care how long Matrix takes to get this thing out, when it's out, I will be playing.

pasternakski -> RE: Matrix may have blown this game (4/10/2004 4:41:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NeverMan pasternaski only posts to practice his typing skills, or to see his name on a thread, or to maybe increase his post count?? You're right. I'm so ashamed. I should change my name to NeverMan and become a worthless @$$hole just like you.

VicKevlar -> RE: Matrix may have blown this game (4/10/2004 7:18:11 PM)
@NeverMan Knock off the trolling/baiting. @pasternakski Knock off the personal insults. You are now both warned.....it happens again here or anywhere else on the Matrix Forums and you will both be on vacation.

YohanTM2 -> RE: Matrix may have blown this game (4/10/2004 11:06:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pasternakski What a throughly silly post. You can't blackmail a sincere and honest game developer into releasing a game by mewling from your little corner of the world about how you're not going to buy it. Maybe this will make sense to someone like you... Consumers base purchasing decisions on a companies statements. When they no longer believe statements from a company they stop buying from them. If you had taken the time to start at the top of my post you would have noticed I would not want a buggy or defective product released. I joined these forums in late 2002 based on a release somewhere in the Fall of 2003 (I think there were earlier potential dates but I'm not sure) It is now looking to be almost a year delayed. Sorry if you feel this is mewling from my little corner of the world but frankly insulting posts from trolls like you are just a way to stifle dialogue. I have no intention of blackmailing Matrix for a release date, I was just passing on comments from two of my friends which have concerned me.

NeverMan -> RE: Matrix may have blown this game (4/11/2004 2:40:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: VicKevlar @NeverMan Knock off the trolling/baiting. Now, THAT'S professionalism at work!! [8\|][8\|]

pasternakski -> RE: Matrix may have blown this game (4/11/2004 2:51:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Yohan insulting posts from trolls like you Well, if you say so...here I am in all my radiant beauty, if you're interested (please note that this is directed at me, not at anyone else. Far be it from me to give offense). [image]local://upfiles/6977/Tr517457563.jpg[/image] I am flattered at having been called a "troll" for the first time. I wonder what other wonders await my wonderment? In any event, what I said before still goes. Matrix has had a long, convoluted adventure trying to get this game produced. I would have preferred a fresh start, but I am anxious to play the EiA port, for better or worse, richer or poorer, until Vic doth us part. Marshall Ellis, Bart Koehler, and others from the design team have made comments and given updates that encourage me to believe that this will be a product worthy of addition to the Matrix line. I'm buying it, friends, and I encourage those of you who want to play Napoleonic games to do the same. Like UV and WitP with regard to WWII in the Pacific, it's going to be the only, and by far the best, game in town.

NeverMan -> RE: Matrix may have blown this game (4/11/2004 5:28:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pasternakski I am flattered at having been called a "troll" for the first time. I wonder what other wonders await my wonderment? It's ok, I have been called a "troll" by the moderator of this entire forum. [:D] It's interesting that someone would ask you to stop name calling by calling you a name. [&:] quote: ORIGINAL: NeverMan Fact is: I don't care how long Matrix takes to get this thing out, when it's out, I will be playing. So, yes, despite all the huff huff, I too anxiously await the arrival of this game. However, it I can see how it gets frustrating watching the release date slip backs a few months everytime the release date draws near. It's like the never ending story.

pasternakski -> RE: Matrix may have blown this game (4/11/2004 6:14:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NeverMan It's ok, I have been called a "troll" by the moderator of this entire forum. [:D] It's interesting that someone would ask you to stop name calling by calling you a name. [&:] Hey, that's right, isn't it? You're a celebrity (of sorts). Me, I'm just a nasty little troll. But I'm a nice nasty little troll (spreads sweetness and light throughout the forums). I really am intrigued by how this game is going to look, how it will play, what kind of "feel" it will have. Now that I think about it, this will be the first "ported" game I will have owned since AH's old Third Reich, which wasn't really all that bad, considering the amount of memory the designers had to work with.

New York Jets -> RE: Matrix may have blown this game (4/12/2004 8:48:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pasternakski quote: ORIGINAL: Yohan insulting posts from trolls like you Well, if you say so...here I am in all my radiant beauty, if you're interested (please note that this is directed at me, not at anyone else. Far be it from me to give offense). [image]local://upfiles/6977/Tr517457563.jpg[/image] I am flattered at having been called a "troll" for the first time. I wonder what other wonders await my wonderment? In any event, what I said before still goes. Matrix has had a long, convoluted adventure trying to get this game produced. I would have preferred a fresh start, but I am anxious to play the EiA port, for better or worse, richer or poorer, until Vic doth us part. Marshall Ellis, Bart Koehler, and others from the design team have made comments and given updates that encourage me to believe that this will be a product worthy of addition to the Matrix line. I'm buying it, friends, and I encourage those of you who want to play Napoleonic games to do the same. Like UV and WitP with regard to WWII in the Pacific, it's going to be the only, and by far the best, game in town. Bravo, Pasternakski! I have lurked about in the EiA forum for quite awhile just to get an idea of when it would be released. After an indepth reading of this thread it has become apparent that you are a fellow 'old timer', in that you remember with warmth the old board gaming days. BTW, I was one of the 10-15 guys who still cared when Empire of the Rising Sun was finally released. I also spent many, many hours poised over an SL/ASL game going back to '76 and onward. These new gaming guys don't know what patience is. In the old days if a game was prematurely released you had a door stop. There was no such thing as a patch for a board game with set of rules that was full of holes. Nowadays they have patches. So why do they whine, so? Like you I will wait patiently and buy it when it is released. If the guys who complain and threaten not to buy it because it is still not released then I say, 'Good Riddance!" They're probably the kind of opponent who will forget your e-mail address when you start kicking their arses. As soon as it releases I'll look you up. I'm looking forward to a game of EiA with an old 'board gamer'.

YohanTM2 -> RE: Matrix may have blown this game (4/12/2004 3:33:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pasternakski I am flattered at having been called a "troll" for the first time. I wonder what other wonders await my wonderment? Funny, first time it has ever been suggested I was mewling...cause and effect perhaps?

Black Hat -> RE: Matrix may have blown this game (4/13/2004 12:09:02 AM)
The best thing about EiA with an AI is.... The mewing, mewling, whining, whimpering, moaning... (hopfully) will thankfully be absent!

YohanTM2 -> RE: Matrix may have blown this game (4/13/2004 3:31:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Black Hat The best thing about EiA with an AI is.... The mewing, mewling, whining, whimpering, moaning... (hopfully) will thankfully be absent! LOL

Marshall Ellis -> RE: Matrix may have blown this game (4/13/2004 5:30:24 AM)
Hey guys: I'm enjoying this post quite a bit LOL! Seriously, If you think your wait is full of agony ... ??? I'm the one in charge of making sure that you cannot mix feudal factors with regular infantry factors. I'm the one that has to make sure that a depot IS in a valid supply chain. I'm the one who has to make sure that when you commit the guard, the opponent must break that round OR your break. I'm also the one that has to make sure that Turkey can stand down their feudals, bring them back up to full strength (only in the December Levy step AND only Turkey AND only some of her units!). I'm the one that has to make sure your casualty selections are non-infantry when you lose more than 2.0 morale AND even then only when you have non-infantry factors available. You get the picture? We must do these things ALMOST perfectly or WE'VE FAILED in your eyes. I've been involved in this thing for over two years and I've seen it turn from a small Napoleonic Wars original design into an old favorite that has a VERY particluar following :-) This is no Axis and Allies or Tic Tac Toe but a very complicated game that duplicates a very complicated time in history when enemies become friends and friends become enemies in the same game! WWII didn't even have the comlicated diplomacy since the bad guys were always the bad guys and the good guys were always the good guys. We don't have time to do this thing twice so we MUST do it right the first time! There is rarely a second time in PC Gaming for one game! In summary, I apologize for the long delay BUT do so recognizing that you might think more of us later when the game's quality is sufficient! It's OK to vent to us! We understand ... BELIEVE ME, WE DO! We'll get there ... I'm counting on it! Thank you

denisonh -> RE: Matrix may have blown this game (4/13/2004 5:41:18 AM)
Thanks for the efforts to you and the Matrix staff Marshall. I think that there is a great deal of support for a finished product. There is absolutely no doubt that a delayed release with the extra attention paid to making it quality is much better than a "coaster" (or like Paradox games, work in progress until the 5th patch) quote: ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis Hey guys: I'm enjoying this post quite a bit LOL! Seriously, If you think your wait is full of agony ... ??? I'm the one in charge of making sure that you cannot mix feudal factors with regular infantry factors. I'm the one that has to make sure that a depot IS in a valid supply chain. I'm the one who has to make sure that when you commit the guard, the opponent must break that round OR your break. I'm also the one that has to make sure that Turkey can stand down their feudals, bring them back up to full strength (only in the December Levy step AND only Turkey AND only some of her units!). I'm the one that has to make sure your casualty selections are non-infantry when you lose more than 2.0 morale AND even then only when you have non-infantry factors available. You get the picture? We must do these things ALMOST perfectly or WE'VE FAILED in your eyes. I've been involved in this thing for over two years and I've seen it turn from a small Napoleonic Wars original design into an old favorite that has a VERY particluar following :-) This is no Axis and Allies or Tic Tac Toe but a very complicated game that duplicates a very complicated time in history when enemies become friends and friends become enemies in the same game! WWII didn't even have the comlicated diplomacy since the bad guys were always the bad guys and the good guys were always the good guys. We don't have time to do this thing twice so we MUST do it right the first time! There is rarely a second time in PC Gaming for one game! In summary, I apologize for the long delay BUT do so recognizing that you might think more of us later when the game's quality is sufficient! It's OK to vent to us! We understand ... BELIEVE ME, WE DO! We'll get there ... I'm counting on it! Thank you

Becket -> RE: Matrix may have blown this game (4/13/2004 6:55:00 AM)
Marshall, All of your time and effort is appreciated. I'd rather wait for a fantastic conversion (especially since, as I mention ad naseum [:'(], this is my first foray in this era of wargaming). Now, give us some screenshots and a feature list! [:D]

New York Jets -> RE: Matrix may have blown this game (4/13/2004 8:20:51 AM)
As someone who owned the original board game and could NEVER find opponents for ftf play. I EAGERLY await this game. Take as long as you need to get it right, boys!

Marshall Ellis -> RE: Matrix may have blown this game (4/13/2004 3:19:31 PM)
BTW: I should have used the word Militia as opposed to Infantry when I spoke about taking casualties when your morale loss was greater than or equal to 2.0 . That was a typo on my part and not a rules deviation from our game. Just another example of how high the bar is here! Thank you

Sonny -> RE: Matrix may have blown this game (4/13/2004 4:19:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis Hey guys: I'm enjoying this post quite a bit LOL! Seriously, If you think your wait is full of agony ... ??? I'm the one in charge of making sure that you cannot mix feudal factors with regular infantry factors. I'm the one that has to make sure that a depot IS in a valid supply chain. I'm the one who has to make sure that when you commit the guard, the opponent must break that round OR your break. I'm also the one that has to make sure that Turkey can stand down their feudals, bring them back up to full strength (only in the December Levy step AND only Turkey AND only some of her units!). I'm the one that has to make sure your casualty selections are non-infantry when you lose more than 2.0 morale AND even then only when you have non-infantry factors available. You get the picture? We must do these things ALMOST perfectly or WE'VE FAILED in your eyes. I've been involved in this thing for over two years and I've seen it turn from a small Napoleonic Wars original design into an old favorite that has a VERY particluar following :-) This is no Axis and Allies or Tic Tac Toe but a very complicated game that duplicates a very complicated time in history when enemies become friends and friends become enemies in the same game! WWII didn't even have the comlicated diplomacy since the bad guys were always the bad guys and the good guys were always the good guys. We don't have time to do this thing twice so we MUST do it right the first time! There is rarely a second time in PC Gaming for one game! In summary, I apologize for the long delay BUT do so recognizing that you might think more of us later when the game's quality is sufficient! It's OK to vent to us! We understand ... BELIEVE ME, WE DO! We'll get there ... I'm counting on it! Thank you As Super Chicken said to Fred - "You knew the job was dangerous when you took it."

pfnognoff -> RE: Matrix may have blown this game (4/14/2004 9:09:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis We must do these things ALMOST perfectly or WE'VE FAILED in your eyes. I've been involved in this thing for over two years and I've seen it turn from a small Napoleonic Wars original design into an old favorite that has a VERY particluar following :-) I bet you now wish you knew, those two years ago, just how particular we are. [:D][:D][:D][:D] P.S. I'm very pleased to know the non-infantry vs. militia was a typo [:D] P.P.S. Matrix, take all the time you need to make it right, just don't give up!

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