What kind of rifle is this? (Full Version)

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ShermanM4 -> What kind of rifle is this? (4/25/2004 3:03:31 AM)

I am not here to discuss the circumstances of this photo. I just want to know what kind of rifle this young man is holding. Does anybody know?

[image]local://upfiles/9520/Sq476766950.jpg[/image]



Nickel -> RE: What kind of rifle is this? (4/25/2004 3:08:00 AM)

I'll take a guess that it might be an FNAL.



Raverdave -> RE: What kind of rifle is this? (4/25/2004 3:44:00 AM)

7.62mm(NATO Rimless) M1A1 FNAL SLR...wast he standard rifle for Australian Army until the late '80s. The one pictured has a twenty round mag but there was a thirty round mag also in use. Very easy to keep clean as was good for targets upto 300 meters, not bad for an open sight !

I loved this rifle and even though it was longer and heavier than the M16, you knew that whatever you hit would not be getting up again in a hurry, or if they did, would be missing a major body part.



ShermanM4 -> RE: What kind of rifle is this? (4/25/2004 4:01:48 AM)

quote:

I'll take a guess that it might be an FNAL.
quote:

7.62mm(NATO Rimless) M1A1 FNAL SLR...wast he standard rifle for Australian Army until the late '80s. The one pictured has a twenty round mag but there was a thirty round mag also in use. Very easy to keep clean as was good for targets upto 300 meters, not bad for an open sight !

I loved this rifle and even though it was longer and heavier than the M16, you knew that whatever you hit would not be getting up again in a hurry, or if they did, would be missing a major body part.



Thanks a lot guys I appreciate the quick answers[:)] I reckon with that answer you must have served Raverdave?



Les_the_Sarge_9_1 -> RE: What kind of rifle is this? (4/25/2004 4:32:36 AM)

Definitely a FAL family example.

And after eating sleeping and living day to day with one, I would know hehe.



Raverdave -> RE: What kind of rifle is this? (4/25/2004 4:58:00 AM)

Yup I was a grunt from head to toe(5/6 RVR), but I did a six month stint in arty (2/15 Field battery)........bugger that, those guys worked too hard !



Raverdave -> RE: What kind of rifle is this? (4/25/2004 4:59:55 AM)

Yeah I loved it Les......it was a great rifle. The ONLY thing that could have improved it was a battle scope say maybe a 2 to 1 magnification?



Zakhal -> RE: What kind of rifle is this? (4/25/2004 3:21:25 PM)

Heh i thought it was FNAL too. Remember it from som first person shooter.



Les_the_Sarge_9_1 -> RE: What kind of rifle is this? (4/25/2004 5:12:47 PM)

Depends on how you want to pronounce the name.

FN FAL/FNAL basically the same thing.

Fabrique Nationale Fusile Automatique Legere (stretching myself there, so no one get picky :) ).

Beautiful weapon. But it's a battlefield rifle ie, the idea is you use it differently than the way an M16 is used. I think of the M16 as a mid range supression weapon.

I was taught to aim it, and kill my target.
The US train their men to lay waste to the area while the LT decides exactly what to do :)

Depends on many things, but I would rather be with 20 Canadians trained to efficiently eliminate their targets, as opposed to being with 20 Americans that can defoiliate a region with small arms fire, and still need to call in air support hehe.

Ok I am aware I am going to get flak over picking on the US and their inability to hit the broad side of a barn door :)



Nickel -> RE: What kind of rifle is this? (4/25/2004 8:01:50 PM)

It's called supressive fire and it is used to make guys that are exposing themselves to take "well aimed shots" try to find the lowest dirt in their immediate area. BTW, who holds the record for the longest sniper shot?



Les_the_Sarge_9_1 -> RE: What kind of rifle is this? (4/25/2004 9:18:40 PM)

20 cool headed guys that can drop you in one shot, encounter 20 guys that spray rounds "in your general direction".

14 of the 20 cool headed guys hit their target while 5 of the lead for sale loonies actually are shooting close enough to hit anything at all.

What are the chances the 20 cool headed guys will be surpessed long by 14 dead or seriously wounded loonies? Especially as you might have hit 3 of the cool headed guys if you're lucky.

Supressive fire only works if you are alive.

Now the problem is, the US and their M16 have not exactly fought a lot of fights recently against what I would call a real army.

I can't think of one recently.

Last trained army I can recall then actually fighting, was the Germans in WW2.

And they did just fine without the M16



Raverdave -> RE: What kind of rifle is this? (4/26/2004 1:49:20 AM)

Yeah I'm with Les on this one.....it is one of the reasons that I like the Marines so much, they are trained "one shot one man", much like the Canadians and Aussies.



Raverdave -> RE: What kind of rifle is this? (4/26/2004 2:49:03 AM)

Oh yeah, and the SLR looks great with the bayonet on the end of it.......someone is going to think twice when there is 8inches of cold steel waiting for them.[:)]



thirsty -> RE: What kind of rifle is this? (4/26/2004 4:57:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nickel

It's called supressive fire and it is used to make guys that are exposing themselves to take "well aimed shots" try to find the lowest dirt in their immediate area. BTW, who holds the record for the longest sniper shot?


Hathcock has the record at 2,250 meters. It is presently being challenged by a shot made in Afghanistan by an unidentified Canadian sniper. At just over 2400 meters it would be the longest shot ever made.

http://www.darwinmag.com/connect/opinion/column.html?ArticleID=510

http://www.stormpages.com/swellal/sof.html



JudgeDredd -> RE: What kind of rifle is this? (4/26/2004 4:00:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Raverdave

Oh yeah, and the SLR looks great with the bayonet on the end of it.......someone is going to think twice when there is 8inches of cold steel waiting for them.[:)]


Yes...but what a B*stard to hold!! Way too long...especially with bayonet...way too heavy and it had a kick like a mule on it.



Raverdave -> RE: What kind of rifle is this? (4/26/2004 4:11:32 PM)

Weak as piss.........well I guess thats what happens when you eat curry and chips and drink warm beer[;)]



Raverdave -> RE: What kind of rifle is this? (4/26/2004 4:19:45 PM)

We used to "jack' the rifle by inserting a matchstike somewhere near the sear-pin (IIRC) so you could fire it full-auto[:D] Anyway one night there was an attack and Pvt Raver lets fly with a whole mag as quick as you can say "zip". Unknown to me the ejected blanks were landing on a rather large dark form to my right...you can imagine my horror when I finally realised that it was none other than the RSM ![X(] Now there is NOTHING and I mean NOTHING that strikes fear into a young soldiers heart more than a chewing out by god himself..............made all the worse by him dragging me out in front of the company by the scruff of the neck while he "educated" the rest of the blokes as to why it was a stupid idea to jack your rifle.[8|]



Les_the_Sarge_9_1 -> RE: What kind of rifle is this? (4/26/2004 5:34:55 PM)

I once fell asleep standing up during inspection eh, and "god" complimented my uniform. Of course I didn't hear him say it though, I was asleep.

I sure heard him the second time though. Also gave the wall a great smash with my head when I recoiled in fright upon waking.

GOD DAMNIT WAKE UP WHEN I COMPLIMENT YOU SOLDIER!!

I think that was the most scared I have ever been in my life.

Oh, for those complaining about weight, stop whining. :)



JudgeDredd -> RE: What kind of rifle is this? (4/26/2004 10:48:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Les_the_Sarge_9_1
...Oh, for those complaining about weight, stop whining. :)


No....it was heavy. I mean - I was a remf - so it was heavy!![:(]



Raverdave -> RE: What kind of rifle is this? (4/27/2004 1:14:40 AM)

[:D] Nah it is the warm beer that saps your strength.[:D]



joki -> RE: What kind of rifle is this? (4/28/2004 9:57:49 AM)

Nickel -
About your question about the record. I recall seeing a confirm kill from the first Gulf war at the range of 1600 m ( not really sure about the exact range but it was over 1200 m ). If it is a long range record I donīt know. There might be others...

/Jonas



Belisarius -> RE: What kind of rifle is this? (4/28/2004 9:26:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thirsty

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nickel

It's called supressive fire and it is used to make guys that are exposing themselves to take "well aimed shots" try to find the lowest dirt in their immediate area. BTW, who holds the record for the longest sniper shot?


Hathcock has the record at 2,250 meters. It is presently being challenged by a shot made in Afghanistan by an unidentified Canadian sniper. At just over 2400 meters it would be the longest shot ever made.

http://www.darwinmag.com/connect/opinion/column.html?ArticleID=510

http://www.stormpages.com/swellal/sof.html


2,250 meters? [X(] Either he was *really* lucky, or his target was sleeping like a bear. Even with a high-power sniper rifle, that's gotta be over 2 seconds "bullet time" before impact.



Bart_Breedyk -> RE: What kind of rifle is this? (4/28/2004 10:47:10 PM)

I have Hathcock's biography at home somewhere. IIRC, he made that shot with a M2HB onto which he mounted an 8X scope. Pretty incredible if you ask me, especially when you consider that the Canadian Corporal who may have beaten it used a bolt-action .50 calibre sniper rifle.

Either way, these men are both an order of magnitude better shot than I could ever hope to be.

B



Nickel -> RE: What kind of rifle is this? (4/29/2004 5:50:22 AM)

It was a rhetorical question, I know who Carlos Hathcock is, but I wanted to give "the Sarge" something to chew on when he was talking about US soldiers not being able to shoot. Notice he avoided that question in his response?



Les_the_Sarge_9_1 -> RE: What kind of rifle is this? (4/29/2004 6:51:37 AM)

It is popular to say "oh yeah" and then quote a US source as if that magically eliminates the basis of the remark.

A well known US scientist (departed now though), Carl Sagan, a man I personally find incapable of uttering something that might sound outright stupid, thus I am inclined to consider it seriously, stated that fully 50% of the US adult population is unaware the earth revolves around the sun (and not the other way around).

50%

Think about that for a minute. Take two minutes if you like.

Now I can only conclude from that, one conclusion.

50% of the US adult population is incredible undereducated.

But, to state, some of the greatest scientific break throughs have occurred in the US, won't magically invalidate that statistic.

Thus, if the world record for longest sniper shot is indeed held by a US soldier, it still does not state anything supportive for the average US soldier, whom is not trained to hit the broad side of a barn door with aimed accurate rifle fire.

Oh, keep in mind, none of this is in any way a slag on the US. You can't fault me for quoting a US person's comments. And yes, I have that comment by Carl Sagan here in print. It's in his book.



ShermanM4 -> RE: What kind of rifle is this? (4/29/2004 10:14:45 AM)

Well if you think that is bad there is a horrifyingly high number of Harvard Graduates who do not realize that the Earths Northern Hemisphere is tilted away from the sun in the Summer and tilted closer in the Winter because of the Earths actual proximity in orbit from the sun. I guess in either case neither my example nor yours teaches anybody to be a better shot.

Les, I know your not bad mouthing the US. I have a question, is that shooting and engagement rule true for all of the US Army. Or is it only true for regular infantry? What about paratroopers? What about rangers?



Les_the_Sarge_9_1 -> RE: What kind of rifle is this? (4/29/2004 3:13:15 PM)

I have no comment on whether it is something that infects the entire US military.

I am hoping that the more specialised branches though, due to higher levels of expectation from their members, tend to attract a higher order of serviceman.

There is no actual basis for that hope though, just me hoping hehe :)

Generalizatons are often bad though as we all know.

Take for instance the current issue of Macleans magazine. It implies Canadians are getting increasingly annoyed with the US as a whole. I don't really agree though. I think it is only that are normally squeeky wheels are just that more squeeky lately.

My attitude towards the US has basically never changed.
I tend to hate the government there, and tend to only know people I have liked.
Being Canadian, I see trade based interaction for what it is, a little guy trying to deal with a large guy.
We end up with most of our media being largely dominated by the US viewpoint, as most of our media is essentially originating from the US.

Canada actually shares a lot in common with little guy nations like say Jordan.
The moment we depart from the viewpoint of our neighbour(s), we get dumped on by those neighbours for breaking ranks.
Everything would be rosy in Canada, if we had just said "sure George we will send troops to Iraq", and just did as we were told.
But Canada isn't the 51st state.

Time to stop rambling now hehe



Nickel -> RE: What kind of rifle is this? (4/29/2004 3:19:00 PM)

Carl Sagan was professor of astronomy at Cornell and quite a learned man. I have even read The Cosmos. This does not make him one of the USA's leading scientists. Keep in mind he won the Pulitzer Prize which is a literary prize, not the Nobel Prize in one of it's science forms. He did write many books that had a science basis but were filled with his conjecture about how things are or would be. A great guy, but not someone I would choose as the "reliable source" when I was trying to impress someone with my knowledge of the literacy rate in the USA. This is one of those "I saw it on TV so it must be true" things and I assume you are saying this with tongue in cheek or you may be calling your own literacy into question.

Yes Carlos Hathcock does hold the sniper record and the correct answer to the question certainly does imply some base knowledge of the history of accurate shooting. BTW there is a Canadian that may have superceded Hathcock and if he does he gets an outstanding. That puts him in a class of shooters that I can read about and admire and only dream to emulate. Be that as it may, I am hard pressed to believe that the Canadian miltary holds the franchise on the most accurate shooters in the world, no slag intended. I am guessing that you have some intimate knowledge of how the US trains its forces, like having gone through bootcamp (I did) and would like to share that knowledge with the forum in some way that the "less knowledgeable" can verify. Canada is a good ally but like all free nations has a population that represents a cross section including all opinions, some based in fact and some otherwise.

Feel free to take as long as you need to digest this, hopefully it doesn't take too much chewing.



Les_the_Sarge_9_1 -> RE: What kind of rifle is this? (4/29/2004 3:47:03 PM)

For the record, I can knock down my FN in 45 seconds.

Ok if you like that sort of thing.

But I always hit high and to the right (drives me crazy). Even when I aim at your left hip, I always seem to muck up getting a good chest shot.

Being taught to aim, won't make a person a good shot :)



Bart_Breedyk -> RE: What kind of rifle is this? (4/29/2004 3:53:38 PM)

Nickel;

I was simply stating my opinion that Hathcock's achievement is more noteworthy considering he did it with a tool that is unsuited for the task.

I have no intention of becoming involved whatsoever in so ultimately futile an argument as 'Canada vs. the US' in any form, on any subject.

B



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