Mega Campaigns as ESDs? (Full Version)

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Scorpion_sk -> Mega Campaigns as ESDs? (11/7/2001 3:11:00 AM)

Well, I found out about the Mega Campaign 2 and immediately headed into the store to pre-order it....19,95$ I thought, not bad.....but surprise surprise, the shipping costs are 27$. Now, while I donīt mind supporting Matrix Games, I couldnīt care less about the U.S. postal service. Additionally, the finnish customs would charge me for 25 or so % of the combined value PLUS Iīd have to go and pick it up at the customs (another 10$ for bus fares) Looking at my occupation you can guess whether itīs a good option for me to submit and pay it up.... So I am asking from the Matrix staff whether it could be at all possible to offer the Mega Campaigns as ESDs (like Firefight)... I donīt care if itīs hundreds of megs.... I think a lot of people that have broadband connections would buy the campaigns that way... What do you at Matrix and the forumites think? Shall I be forced remain indefinitely without the campaigns, or....?
Regards
Sami



Larry Holt -> (11/7/2001 3:34:00 AM)

This has been asked about before. Matrix replied that chargebacks on downloads, redownloads (What if you pay for a download but its corrupted?), etc. were headaches that they could not or did not want to overcome.



Mikimoto -> (11/7/2001 3:48:00 AM)

Hello Sami. I understand you. Shipping costs for Spain are 26.50$... a lot more expensive than the CD (20$). Sometimes I think Matrix only wants US market for his products.
But some weeks ago someone posted about a store in UK willing to import Matrix products for europeans. But no news about this. Hey Matrix, what about this, please?



David Heath -> (11/7/2001 4:13:00 AM)

Hi Everyone I did post a notice few weeks ago. Look in the store and on our main page for dealers. We are looking and will post them there as we make agreements.



kao16 -> (11/7/2001 8:02:00 AM)

Had a quick look at the dealer sites. One of them had MCNA for 375 F (~$51.00) - compared with 25 + 27 = $52 to late order and get it priority post (I assume that is what you get for $27). A better bet would be to try and get a group together to group order, dividing the $27 between more people (a problem with this is that it increases the size of the the package, and thus its decared value which may put it into mport taxable zone). Another option is to arrange for someone in US to buy you a copy and mail it to you regular post (something like $3.75 USA to New Zealand) - you lose the ability to track delivery, and it takes an extra 7-11 days from when your contact posts it.



RichardTheFirst -> (11/7/2001 10:42:00 AM)

This all seems like is happening in the XIX century. HEY MATRIX wake up please!



Warrior -> (11/7/2001 11:57:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by RichardTheFirst:
This all seems like is happening in the XIX century. HEY MATRIX wake up please!
If it wasn't for Matrix giving you a FREE game of SPWaW, you wouldn't be here posting your little funny. A little more gratitude and a lot less sarcasm would be polite. Matrix is a gang of VOLUNTEERS, not some big-ass company with mega profits. How about cutting them some slack?



Mikimoto -> (11/7/2001 2:47:00 PM)

Hello. Only one thouht: I must wait for months since I preorder a MC until it is available. It dont matters to me to wait some weeks more when it begins shipping. Not urgent at all. Not need tracking or air service. If I am waiting for months, It is not so important to send so speedy the cd... sorry for my english. If you can make it a litte less expensive for overseas buyers... Another solution for me is to wait until you have finished some games of my interest, and order them in one package. But it can take months to complete more games and/or megacampaigns... and it goes against you. It is important for me to support Matrix, not some postal sevices. Thanks. [ November 07, 2001: Message edited by: Mikimoto ]



David Heath -> (11/7/2001 3:00:00 PM)

Hi Guys First the dealers have been given discounts and should be selling games a little cheaper. We can not control how much the CD are going to be sold for. If you know of a dealer overseas that might be interested in sell our products please let them and us know. The shipping is high because we only use FedEx to make sure your products get to you Yes in 2001 . We could charge $40.00 bucks for Mega campaign and the shipping would not look so bad. We should be release SPWAW v7.0 very shortly and two new Mega Campaigns. Its will soon be time for a new round of the best SP ever.



Mikimoto -> (11/7/2001 4:57:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by David Heath:

The shipping is high because we only use FedEx to make sure your products get to you Yes in 2001 . We could charge $40.00 bucks for Mega campaign and the shipping would not look so bad.
What? If I understand, you are saying we must close our mouth or it will be more expensive?



Resisti -> (11/7/2001 8:03:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by Mikimoto:
What? If I understand, you are saying we must close our mouth or it will be more expensive?
No,I think what David means is that they could have decided to include part of the shipping costs DIRECTLY in the cd price in order to make the shipping costs BY THEMSELVES appearing lower, but they preferred to keep the CD cost low, instead.



RichardTheFirst -> (11/8/2001 12:49:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Warrior:
If it wasn't for Matrix giving you a FREE game of SPWaW, you wouldn't be here posting your little funny. A little more gratitude and a lot less sarcasm would be polite. Matrix is a gang of VOLUNTEERS, not some big-ass company with mega profits. How about cutting them some slack?
My intention wasn't to offend anyone, but I agree it could be interpreted as sarcastic and for that I present my appologies. I have my reserves about everybody in Matrix being a volunteer, but never mind. Anyway my prime intention with that comment was to alert Matrix that if they depend on the sales of the Mega Campaigns as sorce of revenue than they should do business better. Like having a download page for example or have another sending system. For us, non USA residents, to pay 52 USD for a CD versus the 24 you pay it's excessive. Why not an alternative shipping system cheaper even if it takes more time? My commentary was due also to the fact you have to ask Matrix to e-mail you patches. Why not have it available for download? (see related topic Mega Campaign 1 patch) In conclusion: maybe Matrix can do more money if they do businesses better. And having sales systems that very few companies even very small ones have abandoned is not good in marketing terms. This was a constructive critic. If Matrix don't see it that way: well... their problem. And our problem too because in short term Matrix could stop to support this game. So: it is all very pretty all this thing of the volunteer contributions (and I mean it) but in the end the cold bucks are very important, aren't they?



Mikimoto -> (11/8/2001 2:44:00 AM)

Hey Richard. Fully agree with you.



scimitar -> (11/8/2001 3:36:00 AM)

A little precision concerning costs for Europeans: let's assume I order from Duchet. 375 French francs = approx. 2250 Belgian francs. 52 US Dollars = approx. 2340 Belgian francs. But oredering from Duchet signifies for all members of the European Community NO CUSTOM COSTS!!! As those can be very high (in the example above, you can estimate the custom costs for an order placed in the USA to approx. 800 Belgian franks.
So, I admit that for a New Zealander it's not interrestive to order in Europe; but for Europeans it's REALLY cheaper!



SkyVon -> (11/8/2001 5:49:00 AM)

The release date says 10/31 yet here we are a week later and no delivery. Did the game go out on time or is there a delay?



Les_the_Sarge_9_1 -> (11/8/2001 6:07:00 AM)

I still say the best way to get a Mega Campaign to some place like Europe has to be locating a reliable friend in the US step two mail them the money (yes just mail the the dang money) step three the friend buys the cd for nothing more than it really should cost anyone in the civilised world. step four he merely puts it in ordinary mail, yes ordinary mail, nothing fancy, a bubble envelope and a piece of card board shipped airmail. With conversion to US funds, Matrix shipping costs to friend, friends cost to mail to person wanting cd, I refuse to believe this will exceed half the cost it appears to be for fans in Europe. Its insane to do it otherwise. I have thought about it. I have sent music to a girl I know in the US. I never ask for anything. I just like to be nice.
I can garantee you if I plan on buying Mega Campaign, and I likely will, I am not planning on letting any insanity ruin my purchase. I happen to know she can buy it for the civilised price of what it costs a US citizen and then no more than a couple of bucks for re routing through mail to me. And since I am nice she will likely not even ask for the mail cost to me. I might as well be living in the US effectively. Why isnt anyone thinking of these sort of strategies (or is this why my friends routinely lose to me hehehe, I think outside of the box).



Mikimoto -> (11/8/2001 6:09:00 AM)

Hey Scimitar. Firs MC shipping costs were 17$ for Spain. Second MC shipping costs are 26.50$. Total cost for MCLV in Spain are almost 47$. No Custom charges here. If I buy from Duchet I pay five dollars more... One fantastic board wargames company, "the Gamers" send me every year a package with errata and mods counters, the last rules errata and news (for all his games, not only those I own). By air mail, and shipping costs are 5$(FIVE DOLLARS) more or less. And they pay all the shipping costs: Its free for me!!! I can't understand so expensive shipping costs here in Matrix. Scimitar, Really cheaper?



kao16 -> (11/8/2001 6:19:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Mikimoto:
Hey Scimitar. Firs MC shipping costs were 17$ for Spain. Second MC shipping costs are 26.50$. Total cost for MCLV in Spain are almost 47$. No Custom charges here. If I buy from Duchet I pay five dollars more... I can't understand so expensive shipping costs here in Matrix. Scimitar, Really cheaper?
Matrix Games sends the games by a postal method where they can track the article (to prove that it actually arrives). The cost is greater for the second MC because they are no longer using USPS (because so many failed to arrive). FedEx works and is quick (2-3 days USA to NZ, then waiting until Monday because I wasn't home at 1425hr on a Friday )



kao16 -> (11/8/2001 6:27:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Les the Sarge 9-1:
I still say the best way to get a Mega Campaign to some place like Europe has to be locating a reliable friend in the US step two mail them the money (yes just mail the the dang money) step three the friend buys the cd for nothing more than it really should cost anyone in the civilised world. step four he merely puts it in ordinary mail, yes ordinary mail, nothing fancy, a bubble envelope and a piece of card board shipped airmail. With conversion to US funds, Matrix shipping costs to friend, friends cost to mail to person wanting cd, I refuse to believe this will exceed half the cost it appears to be for fans in Europe. Its insane to do it otherwise.
Rather than sending money, another option is arranging to use something like PayPal - adds something like 2.5% + 30c to the cost. But compared with $5 to buy cash, or $20 to get a bank check in another currency.... Another possible advantage.... the article is posted by an individual and not a company... hopefully it will not attract import tax (as it cant be proven to be a purchase) If I managed to gete someone in the US to send me a copy it would cost something like $20 for the MC CD (pre-order), a share of the postage to my contact (how much?), Postage to NZ ~$4, the cost of PayPal ~$1 ~=$26-27



Mikimoto -> (11/8/2001 6:44:00 AM)

Hi again. The price for a game in Spain is more or less 40$ (Between 6500 and 7495 ptas): It includes original game, colour manual, box, voices and manual translated to spanish, etc.. MCLV costed to me exacty 46.99$ = 52.23€ = 8690Ptas. And the first CD (North Africa) was only the Cd (no box, no rules, no translated). I know you will flame me (ingrate) but shipping costs make me get Hungry. By the way, what are shipping costs for a US resident? Would to know how much MC sales could you make at 47$ in the US.



AmmoSgt -> (11/8/2001 7:29:00 AM)

I think there is a couple of things that are not exactly understood that i would like to comment on ....
First the Patch for the MCNA CD with Version 5.3 ... not everybody needs the Patch ( Most compuers work fine without it ) and the Patch is included in Version 6.1 so it is available for download ..so i don't see that problem ..
Last Time I checked ( about 3 minutes ago ) patches for anout 4 languages are available that work for any version of SPWAW and while i didn't see Spanish ..I know i saw some posting about folks working on a Spanish Version of the manual ..
SPWAW comes with a Manual and editors and all sorts of other FREE goodies ..
Version 5.3 is old history and was replaced by 6.1 so why folks are still complaining about not being able to download a patch , that is probably not needed , only occurs on some configurations if yoiu insist on using 5.3 is beyond me .. Load the game .. try it ...see if you need the patch before complaining about not having something you don't need , then if you do , then upgrade to 6.1 ???
If you want a Spanish language version , then volunteer to translate it from english to spanish, and I am sure somebody at Matrix ..will do what they have always done ... post it ..
geeze louise...
If shipping costs are too high via the Fedex route then, get a buddy stateside to relay it to you at regular postal rates.



David Heath -> (11/8/2001 1:51:00 PM)

Hi Everyone Let me try to make some things clear. First my comments should NOT have been taken that I was mad. I understand very much the shipping problems. We will not ship anything that can not be tracked. If a order is placed on a credit card and I can not prove it got there the credit card company will credit my account. Matrix lost so much money with the poor service of the USPO and then people making charge backs it was just not worth it. FedEx and UPS makes it so everyone the customer and the company can see what is going on with an order. Richard The First I was not offended by your comments at all. and I fully understand what the problem is. Please understand that FedEx and UPS are really the only way we can ship our products and know for a fact what is going on. The patch email was done as a quick fix to our customers by Paul. We have been fine tuning and working on SPWaW v7.0 for sometime now as well as the OOB and the formations. The new full update to v7.0 should be ready soon and it will be available as a download. My comment on the $40.00 game was not to say that if people keep talking about shipping issues we were going to raise the price. Many gamers have said the shipping cost are more then the game. This is true, but to for us to give quick and effective shipping to our customers the shipping costs are going to higher. My comment was meant to say we did not want to charge more then $25.00 for the game would you really feel better about the shipping cost? The real bottom line is we are trying to get our games to everyone at the best shipping rates and in a way everyone knows what is going on. We have signed on with some wargame dealers overseas and are talking to more as we speak. I have notice many game publishers are now switching to a FedEx or UPS solution. So we understand and we know about the problem and we are doing our best to fix them. Matrix Games is a company that loves gaming, good or bad we want to hear you and do our best to address these issues. [ November 08, 2001: Message edited by: David Heath ] [ November 10, 2001: Message edited by: David Heath ]



scimitar -> (11/9/2001 1:43:00 AM)

Hey Mikimoto,
Your comments are very interrestive: so you don't have to pay custom costs in Spain for foreign softwares? I understand that in such a case you prefer to order directly to Matrixgames; it's evident and the money go directly to Matrixgames; better for them...
So, in the European Community, goods can be cheaper for me but not for you: harmonization in Europe for all Europeans is not yet a reality...



Mikimoto -> (11/9/2001 3:01:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by scimitar:
Hey Mikimoto,
Your comments are very interrestive: so you don't have to pay custom costs in Spain for foreign softwares? I understand that in such a case you prefer to order directly to Matrixgames; it's evident and the money go directly to Matrixgames; better for them...
So, in the European Community, goods can be cheaper for me but not for you: harmonization in Europe for all Europeans is not yet a reality...
Hey Scimitar.
I dont know if we pay custom cost for foreign software... In fact when I received the package with the first MegaCampaign, well, it was in my mailbox, and nobody went home to ask a bill. United Europe is a dream...



K G von Martinez -> (11/9/2001 3:53:00 PM)

Scimitar,
in my experience it just depends on your luck if you have to pay import tax or not. Irrespective of value sometimes yes, sometimes no, but I have the impression: the bigger the package the more likely you have to pay. By the way: I've got MCNA without taxes and - good old times, when it was possible - by USmail from Matrix.



Gen.Hoepner -> (11/9/2001 4:17:00 PM)

It's always the same old problem here....!!!I think that we,european,we cannot complain about the price of the shipping cost,just because Matrix can't do anything more....or better:anything more would be anti-economic.The point,guys,is that we are few.....a 10 % of the matrix custumers probably...or even less.....our demand curve is not that strong to influence the offer matrix's curve.....(well,maybe Keynes here doesn't really focuses the point,but i hope i've explained my thought).
It's not only matrix......!try to order a Cadillac or a tipical american car which is not directly imported in europe...... We pay the service of an trans-atlantic mail service...and that's all
Another way to skip this problem should be to make only few orders for many people....organizing the packages for states.......all the Italians ne order with 5 or whatever MCcds ,all the Spanish...etc etc....



Les_the_Sarge_9_1 -> (11/9/2001 10:58:00 PM)

My input here where specifically Matrix is concerned... Matrix doesnt owe us anything period. The Mega Campaigns exist as a result of us all being offered, repeatedly I might add, a game that is totally free. Matrix has given us a game, that I put at a value three times the worth of any Mega game cd. And they gave it to us for free. Now if Steel Panthers WaW is merely bait to lure us to buy Mega Campaign cds, well Matrix, you deal in some damn fine bait. Fish never had it so good. If Matrix cant lower shipping costs, then thats the way it is, get over it, save the crying for a closet where it belongs. If you live outside the US where shipping costs are outrageous, tough. Its YOUR challenge to fix that, not Matrix's challenge.
I know what I intend to do. It was my own initiative that sparked the idea. I am certainly not going to put the burden on Matrix. Matrix you keep doing the excellent job and stop fussing over whether some fans have trouble. Its our hassle to fix our hassles.



RichardTheFirst -> (11/10/2001 11:36:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by Les the Sarge 9-1:
My input here where specifically Matrix is concerned... Matrix doesnt owe us anything period. The Mega Campaigns exist as a result of us all being offered, repeatedly I might add, a game that is totally free. Matrix has given us a game, that I put at a value three times the worth of any Mega game cd. And they gave it to us for free. Now if Steel Panthers WaW is merely bait to lure us to buy Mega Campaign cds, well Matrix, you deal in some damn fine bait. Fish never had it so good. If Matrix cant lower shipping costs, then thats the way it is, get over it, save the crying for a closet where it belongs. If you live outside the US where shipping costs are outrageous, tough. Its YOUR challenge to fix that, not Matrix's challenge.
I know what I intend to do. It was my own initiative that sparked the idea. I am certainly not going to put the burden on Matrix. Matrix you keep doing the excellent job and stop fussing over whether some fans have trouble. Its our hassle to fix our hassles.
I beg your pardon Les but if I own a company I don't want you in there as a manager. In the competitive world we live nowadays every company's service ends not only when the product is delivered but with the post-sale feed-back as well. We are not crying here, we are giving feed-back. C u later. "Vini, vidi, vinci" - Iulius Cæsar



Les_the_Sarge_9_1 -> (11/11/2001 1:09:00 AM)

Richard you have to give Matrix credit where its due. They could have marketed Mega Camapign sans Version X Steel Panthers. But they didnt. They could have developed Mega Campaign sans online furom and just boxed it for the store shelf, but they didnt do that either. And thats the heart of my comment. Matrix has not only gone waaaaaay wide of the mark, they have exceeded normal business practices exceedingly well. They are doing what most businesses routinely dont do. And doing it damn well. So when I say its not the fault of Matrix if they cant ship a new program on a cd, that is likely being piggy backed on the program they actually want to sell, to countries that enjoy oppressing consumers to an obscene sum of money. I say its no longer credibly decent to ask for more. As for being a manager, hmmmm well actually I would never work for someone actually. I dont do the "cog" thing well. But I do have my own business. And if I was healthier I would venture I would be to busy to type this heheh. There comes a time when a business has the right to say sorry we have done our part. You cant please everyone all the time (well you can, but those businesses tend to go bankrupt).



AmmoSgt -> (11/11/2001 1:26:00 AM)

Have any of the Overseas folks considered actually complaining to the shiping outfits or customs authorities who set the high prices or to the cheaper postal agencies that have such high loss rates that make shiping things thru cheaper channels impractical due to the high loss rates ?
I would think complaining to the folks actually causing the problems or charging the high premiums or high custom rates would be the folks to complain to ? I mean realistically thats who is causing these problems .. Not Matrix .. just a thought ...
Matrix has a Free product with great performance ( i have never had a lock up or malfunction , maybe i just set it up right or something .. heck I got windows 98 I got SP1 that runs SP2 SP3 SPWAW in versions 4.5 5.3 6.1 and 7.0beta , I got SPWW2 versions 3 and 4 and I even have SPSquad leader version 1.1, SP Moderna and a couple of SP1 variants for Poland all curently on my computer all work flawlessly , Had most on the early versions when i was running windows 95 ( had a motherboard overheat once .. but nothing ran right then not just SP series stuff ..
So every SP wargaming possibility except the Mega Campiagns are either free or by somebody else other than matrix .. why folks rag on matrix for charging a fair prices for the mega campaign is beyong me .. and if it is shipping and postage well heck talk to the customs and postage folks for petes sake .. geeze louise



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