RE: oi! bad day to be a merchant.....either side!!!!!

RE: oi! bad day to be a merchant.....either side!!!!! (Full Version)

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Capt. Harlock -> RE: oi! bad day to be a merchant.....either side!!!!! (6/29/2004 6:57:22 AM)
quote: Sinapore can last at least until early March.......Clark is another issue alrady the troops are on half rations Does the game give the option of transporting supplies overland from base to base? (That was MacArthur's one big mistake in the PI: he should have trucked out more stores instead of declaring Manila an open city. The Japanese bombed it anyway.)

Luskan -> RE: oi! bad day to be a merchant.....either side!!!!! (6/29/2004 10:59:11 AM)
Option? It happens automatically. It is just that he isn't producing any because I bombed or captured all the resource centres in the PI.

Raverdave -> RE: oi! bad day to be a merchant.....either side!!!!! (6/29/2004 4:18:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Luskan It is just that he isn't producing any because I bombed or captured all the resource centres in the PI. Nassty Lussskan, wes hates him wes does wes hates him![:@]

Capt. Harlock -> RE: oi! bad day to be a merchant.....either side!!!!! (6/30/2004 5:06:04 AM)
quote: Option? It happens automatically. It is just that he isn't producing any because I bombed or captured all the resource centres in the PI. Okay . . . but what about stockpiles of existing supplies? Are those moved automatically? (I know that it's possible to evacuate them by loading them on ships.)

Raverdave -> RE: oi! bad day to be a merchant.....either side!!!!! (6/30/2004 11:37:39 AM)
Move the HQ and the supplies will follow.

Raverdave -> Luskan has gone mad! (6/30/2004 11:47:31 AM)
Luskan has lost all reason.........I have just spotted KB (who else could it be?) due west of PH and have no doubt that he is going to strike. Madness! Moving against a fully alert PH is like putting your nuts in a vice and turning the handle to see what will happen! I can only guess that he is trying to catch my CVs (which are safely tucked-up on the west coast waiting for one other carrier to arrive), and maybe try and sink some more of my wounded BBs.......most of which are now in the shipyards in the US. But it is not his presumed attack on PH the bothers me as much as the fact as to how close he got to PH before being detected. Note the screenie below...........this is the FIRST indication that I had of Luskan being in the area despite having four squadrons of PBYs flying. [image]local://upfiles/5619/Ki190243512.jpg[/image]

Subchaser -> RE: Luskan has gone mad! (6/30/2004 12:59:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Raverdave But it is not his presumed attack on PH the bothers me as much as the fact as to how close he got to PH before being detected. Note the screenie below...........this is the FIRST indication that I had of Luskan being in the area despite having four squadrons of PBYs flying. He is still 300 miles away from Pearl, he can’t attack from this position KB will have to come closer and they’re already detected. PBY guys did their job right.

Luskan -> RE: Luskan has gone mad! (6/30/2004 2:49:17 PM)
No they didn't - I've eben there for three turns trying to sink his bloody ASW hunter killer group and got frustrated and moved 1 hex closer. Well, the allied airforce lies continue. And so my pilots lie too, to keep things even. The actual stats for this turns second pearl harbour. 1. I lost a total of 40 aircraft in it, mostly vals. I had appoximately 32 damaged planes land on deck however. I also had 4 op losses on top of this - most of the 40 aircraft were vals lost to flak. 2. Raver probably lost about 110 aircraft in reality. In the fantasy world fighter pilots live in, he lost thousands. In any case, I brutalised his aircraft with my massively superior plane and pilot quality, linked with a numerical superiority. KB still has 401 aircraft on her decks (and I've now got hundreds of replacement aircraft for the pilots that made it). 3. The allied airstrike didn't land any hits. Or if they did, the bombs were duds because there ain't no damage at ALL. That is right, those two cvs are both 3 sys each and 0 and 0 fire and flt, and the Kirishima is up to 5 sys damage, and 0 and 0. So to those inventive bomber pilots - when you land a 1000lbs bomb in a jap flat top's deck, you'll find that at the very least you start a little fire. if there is just a puff of water, you missed, or a puff of smoke, that is my AA firing at you. 4. Low on fuel so I won't be able to continue the fight, but it doesn't matter as Raver decided to put New mexico and Colorado in a tf rather than in port. If they'd been in port I couldn't have sunk them and I would have lost a lot more planes (was actually hoping for a port raid to get some AR ships blown to hell, but oh well. Both ships sank immediately. Makes up for my pathetic pearl harbour. I think that is 5 enemy bbs sunk so far. Raver thought he could use them as floating AA platforms - and although flak cost me about 26 aircraft . . . it is just too early in the war for those bbs to have the super flak they have later. I'll take the 44 lost planes and about 35 lost pilots and put two big USN bbs to the bottom thanks along with crippling Pearl's air defence for months to come. More wildcats than I expected however. Enjoy - and also take note of some of the more amazing lies that pilots and flak gunners come up with. AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 01/22/42 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sub attack at 47,103 Japanese Ships SS I-173 Allied Ships DD Stuart DD Le Triomphant -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Day Air attack on TF at 109,69 Japanese aircraft A6M2 Zero x 65 Allied aircraft F4F-4 Wildcat x 8 SBD Dauntless x 13 P-40B Tomahawk x 24 P-40E Warhawk x 3 B-18A Bolo x 17 A-20B Boston x 6 B-17E Fortress x 11 Japanese aircraft losses A6M2 Zero: 28 destroyed, 4 damaged - erm . . . more like 12 destroyed 1 damaged. Allied aircraft losses F4F-4 Wildcat: 14 destroyed, 2 damaged SBD Dauntless: 17 destroyed, 1 damaged P-40B Tomahawk: 42 destroyed, 2 damaged P-40E Warhawk: 6 destroyed B-18A Bolo: 14 destroyed, 8 damaged A-20B Boston: 3 damaged B-17E Fortress: 4 destroyed, 6 damaged Japanese Ships CV Akagi CV Shokaku CV Zuikaku, Bomb hits 1 - actually . . . no. CV Soryu, Bomb hits 1 - 'fraid not fellas! better luck next time - be seeing you! BB Kirishima, bomb hits 1 - maybe, I can't tell, but there isn't any damage. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Day Air attack on TF, near Pearl Harbor at 112,68 Japanese aircraft A6M2 Zero x 39 D3A Val x 110 B5N Kate x 90 Allied aircraft F4F-4 Wildcat x 16 P-40B Tomahawk x 37 P-40E Warhawk x 3 Japanese aircraft losses A6M2 Zero: 22 destroyed - again, uh . . .no. D3A Val: 19 destroyed, 13 damaged - what are you guys smoking? B5N Kate: 16 destroyed, 38 damaged - sure you're not getting confused with you own planes?? Allied aircraft losses F4F-4 Wildcat: 15 destroyed, 2 damaged P-40B Tomahawk: 65 destroyed, 6 damaged - note to self, my pilots are just as bad! Double the actual number of tomahawks in the air were claimed as kills . . . P-40E Warhawk: 2 destroyed, 1 damaged Allied Ships BB Colorado, Bomb hits 15, Torpedo hits 7, on fire, heavy damage BB New Mexico, Bomb hits 14, Torpedo hits 5, on fire DD Hughes -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Day Air attack on TF, near Pearl Harbor at 112,68 Japanese aircraft A6M2 Zero x 50 D3A Val x 101 B5N Kate x 90 Allied aircraft F4F-4 Wildcat x 9 P-40B Tomahawk x 7 P-40E Warhawk x 2 Japanese aircraft losses A6M2 Zero: 14 destroyed not even close. D3A Val: 2 destroyed, 3 damaged B5N Kate: 4 destroyed, 7 damaged Allied aircraft losses F4F-4 Wildcat: 12 destroyed P-40B Tomahawk: 6 destroyed, 1 damaged P-40E Warhawk: 2 destroyed Allied Ships BB Colorado, Bomb hits 5, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage, sunk BB New Mexico, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 6, on fire, heavy damage, sunk.

Subchaser -> RE: Luskan has gone mad! (6/30/2004 3:11:52 PM)
Congratulations! That was a good raid and good plan after all. 2 BBs and 100+ a/c for 44 planes lost... impressive. I think next time you should bring a couple of divisions to Pearl… [;)] truly speaking I can’t understand why PH defenses did so poorly, no surprise, everything was ready to meet the attackers… and…there must be something behind Japanese luck.

Huskalator -> RE: oi! bad day to be a merchant.....either side!!!!! (6/30/2004 3:16:52 PM)
I don't understand. Are the game AARs the same for both sides?

Ron Saueracker -> RE: oi! bad day to be a merchant.....either side!!!!! (6/30/2004 3:17:24 PM)
I wanna see a sunk ships list![:D]

Raverdave -> RE: oi! bad day to be a merchant.....either side!!!!! (6/30/2004 3:55:57 PM)
Well at least I now know where KB is[8\|] And that means that my operation can now go ahead ! There is no way that Luskan will be able to react in time ! Yorktown is about three days from SF and THAT will bring my CV TF to 4 carriers ! Time to start planning a Midway.

SirRodneyOfGout -> RE: Luskan has gone mad! (6/30/2004 5:09:23 PM)
A 2nd PH????? Woo-hoo!!!! Thats what wargames are all about. Can you imagine the alt history? Roosevelt: "This will go down in history as another day of infamy..." So who's the poor PH commander to get keelhauled for this boo-boo? [:'(] BTW, any chance the AI might pull off a move like this, or is this just too over the top? Great game guys!

kaleun -> RE: Luskan has gone mad! (6/30/2004 5:37:12 PM)
Ditto

52nd Lowland -> RE: oi! bad day to be a merchant.....either side!!!!! (6/30/2004 5:40:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Raverdave Well at least I now know where KB is[8\|] And that means that my operation can now go ahead ! There is no way that Luskan will be able to react in time ! Yorktown is about three days from SF and THAT will bring my CV TF to 4 carriers ! Time to start planning a Midway. Hopefully not a Midway in reverse the way Yamamoto planned [:)]

Grotius -> RE: oi! bad day to be a merchant.....either side!!!!! (6/30/2004 6:00:27 PM)
quote: I don't understand. Are the game AARs the same for both sides? Yes and no. (If UV is any guide anyway; I haven't played WITP yet.) The printed AAR, the text you see posted here ("Air attack on TF near Pearl Harbor, etc"), is the same for both sides. The game generates one per turn. But this report isn't always completely accurate because pilots tend to over-report kills, etc. Moreover, the two players see very different maps as they play the game, because fog of war is a major consideration in this series of games.

Onime No Kyo -> RE: oi! bad day to be a merchant.....either side!!!!! (6/30/2004 7:08:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Raverdave Move the HQ and the supplies will follow. No kidding?! Thanks Raver, it would have taken me years to fugure that one out by my lonesome (at which point I would have probably given myself a concussion by slapping myself on the forehead).

Nikademus -> RE: oi! bad day to be a merchant.....either side!!!!! (6/30/2004 7:25:21 PM)
reminds me of the time the "AI" (yeah...the AI!!!) did the same thing to me in an old PacWar game......had warships including the Colorado sitting at Pearl minding their own business thinking i was perfectly safe....then two words KIDO BUTAI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Colorado sunk....more aircraft damaged and destroyed, and one pissed off Allied commander... [:@]

Ron Saueracker -> RE: oi! bad day to be a merchant.....either side!!!!! (6/30/2004 7:36:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nikademus reminds me of the time the "AI" (yeah...the AI!!!) did the same thing to me in an old PacWar game......had warships including the Colorado sitting at Pearl minding their own business thinking i was perfectly safe....then two words KIDO BUTAI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Colorado sunk....more aircraft damaged and destroyed, and one pissed off Allied commander... [:@] Been farting around with Japan AI, no AI surprises by late June 42. The Dutch East Indies is still predominantly Dutch (entire Malay Barrier), Wake is US, Burma is Allied from Mandalay north, I've used US CVs for one raid on Kwajalein in Jan 42 (have been swinging at anchor since!). My point...I need more PBEM opponents![:D]

Nikademus -> RE: oi! bad day to be a merchant.....either side!!!!! (6/30/2004 10:17:30 PM)
hmmm well i suppose bashing one canadian is as good as another.....

ADavidB -> Second Pearl Harbor (7/1/2004 1:22:24 AM)
quote: truly speaking I can’t understand why PH defenses did so poorly, no surprise, everything was ready to meet the attackers… and…there must be something behind Japanese luck. What we are seeing is that WitP is truly a GG game. As with Pacwar and UV, the Allies won't be able to contest the Japanese air until late 42 at the earliest. And against the AI (in contrast to PBEM) it will take even longer to be able to do anything. It's GG's reality, and if we want to play, we'll have to dish out our $70 or so and play by his rules. I'll buy the game anyway, as I did Pacwar so many years ago and UV a couple of years ago, but I wish that things would be different this time around. Dave Baranyi

freeboy -> RE: Second Pearl Harbor (7/1/2004 2:00:51 AM)
quote: What we are seeing is that WitP is truly a GG game. As with Pacwar and UV, the Allies won't be able to contest the Japanese air until late 42 at the earliest. And against the AI (in contrast to PBEM) it will take even longer to be able to do anything. why will it take longer against the ai? got me scratching my er head on that one?

GBirkn -> RE: Luskan has gone mad! (7/1/2004 2:08:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Subchaser truly speaking I can't understand why PH defenses did so poorly, no surprise, everything was ready to meet the attackers... and...there must be something behind Japanese luck. Part of it is that the Zero gets a bonus in the first few months of the war. As the manual puts it: quote: During the timeframe December 1941 - April 1942, the Japanese aircraft types A6M2 Zero and A6M3 Zero are given an advantage in air to air combat by having a bonus added to their maneuverability as follows: December 1941: +5 January 1942: +4 February 1942: +3 March 1942: +2 April 1942: +1 This is to account for the fact that the extreme maneuverability of the Zero was unknown to most Allied pilots. This allowed for the Japanese to take advantage of poor Allied tactics. Eventually the Allies began to appreciate the performance aspects of the Zero and devised tactics to offset its advantage. So an even number of Wildcats and Warhawks against Zeros is going to be a losing proposition for the Allied player early in the war, even before the high skill and morale of the Japanese pilots is taken into account.

Raverdave -> RE: Luskan has gone mad! (7/1/2004 2:45:54 AM)
It takes into account the the edge that not only did the Zero have (as wellas the pilots) but also the allies lack of an answer.

ADavidB -> RE: Second Pearl Harbor (7/1/2004 3:03:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freeboy quote: What we are seeing is that WitP is truly a GG game. As with Pacwar and UV, the Allies won't be able to contest the Japanese air until late 42 at the earliest. And against the AI (in contrast to PBEM) it will take even longer to be able to do anything. why will it take longer against the ai? got me scratching my er head on that one? The AI is given an edge in all of GG's games. It shows up in particular in air combat, but also in other factors. Play any GG game and switch sides against the AI. You will receive a good education... But despite GG's approach, his games give enough entertainment to compensate for the quirky rules and Gary's bias. Just pretend that a GG game is an "alternate world sci-fi" game and you can develop reasonable strategies to combat them. Just don't expect to end up with terribly historic results. Dave Baranyi

ADavidB -> RE: Luskan has gone mad! (7/1/2004 3:05:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GBirkn quote: ORIGINAL: Subchaser truly speaking I can't understand why PH defenses did so poorly, no surprise, everything was ready to meet the attackers... and...there must be something behind Japanese luck. Part of it is that the Zero gets a bonus in the first few months of the war. As the manual puts it: quote: During the timeframe December 1941 - April 1942, the Japanese aircraft types A6M2 Zero and A6M3 Zero are given an advantage in air to air combat by having a bonus added to their maneuverability as follows: December 1941: +5 January 1942: +4 February 1942: +3 March 1942: +2 April 1942: +1 This is to account for the fact that the extreme maneuverability of the Zero was unknown to most Allied pilots. This allowed for the Japanese to take advantage of poor Allied tactics. Eventually the Allies began to appreciate the performance aspects of the Zero and devised tactics to offset its advantage. So an even number of Wildcats and Warhawks against Zeros is going to be a losing proposition for the Allied player early in the war, even before the high skill and morale of the Japanese pilots is taken into account. Hmmm - this sort of thing is starting to make me wonder if the game will really be worth the money. I hate ahistoric tweaks. Dave Baranyi

52nd Lowland -> RE: Luskan has gone mad! (7/1/2004 3:06:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Raverdave It takes into account the the edge that not only did the Zero have (as wellas the pilots) but also the allies lack of an answer. Did the AVG in China not come up with tactics to deal with the Zero ? Probably did but got lost in the chain of command.[:)]

rroberson -> RE: oi! bad day to be a merchant.....either side!!!!! (7/1/2004 3:56:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker quote: ORIGINAL: Nikademus reminds me of the time the "AI" (yeah...the AI!!!) did the same thing to me in an old PacWar game......had warships including the Colorado sitting at Pearl minding their own business thinking i was perfectly safe....then two words KIDO BUTAI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Colorado sunk....more aircraft damaged and destroyed, and one pissed off Allied commander... [:@] Been farting around with Japan AI, no AI surprises by late June 42. The Dutch East Indies is still predominantly Dutch (entire Malay Barrier), Wake is US, Burma is Allied from Mandalay north, I've used US CVs for one raid on Kwajalein in Jan 42 (have been swinging at anchor since!). My point...I need more PBEM opponents![:D] Drop me a line and let's chat. I have one active (with xargun) and one waiting the release (with reiyc) I can probably squeeze a third in...:). Rob

Luskan -> RE: oi! bad day to be a merchant.....either side!!!!! (7/1/2004 8:48:57 AM)
Well I'll note Raver hasn't officially responded beyond saying that now he knows where KB is. My one strong point is that I have a seamless air umbrella around my front line. Took a while to get supplies, betties and zeroes and lots of search float planes into position, but now that they're there, i'll be using kb a bit more.

Luskan -> RE: oi! bad day to be a merchant.....either side!!!!! (7/1/2004 9:00:49 AM)
Don't have time to post a proper summary so: 1. Raver had these two transports ins eperate tfs sitting at Akyab doing nothing. Originally they probably unloaded rtoops but I think he was trying to bait my betties into launching and gettnig tackled by the buffalos he had rpesent. I know he has buffaloes and catalinas there. So I sent in a little fast tf first to clear out the transports, and then had three similar sized bombardment tfs go in. You'll be able to pick which of my admirals is "aggressive" and the two that are "careful/cautious". Should have sent Tanaka. However the place is certainly flattened, and I doubt I'll be seeing any catalinas on search out of there for a whlie. AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 01/23/42 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ASW attack at 47,103 Japanese Ships SS I-173 Allied Ships DD Stuart DD Le Triomphant -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ASW attack at 107,67 Japanese Ships DD Kasumi DD Isokaze DD Akigumo DD Kagero DD Urakaze DD Tanikaze DD Arare DD Shiranuhi DD Hamakaze CV Hiryu Allied Ships SS Pompano, hits 2, on fire, heavy damage -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Akyab at 30,29 Japanese Ships CL Naka CL Kitakami DD Oyashio DD Hagikaze DD Oshio DD Arashio DD Sanae Allied Ships AK Empire Hawk, Shell hits 25, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Akyab at 30,29 Japanese Ships CL Naka CL Kitakami DD Oyashio DD Hagikaze DD Oshio DD Arashio DD Sanae Allied Ships AK Jalatarang, Shell hits 10, and is sunk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Naval bombardment of Akyab, at 30,29 Allied aircraft Allied aircraft losses PBY Catalina: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged Japanese Ships CL Jintsu CL Kinu DD Kuroshio DD Hayashio DD Arashi CA Chokai CA Takao BB Hyuga BB Mutsu Allied ground losses: 319 casualties reported Guns lost 11 Vehicles lost 3 Airbase hits 1 Airbase supply hits 1 Runway hits 6 Port hits 1 Port supply hits 6 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Naval bombardment of Akyab, at 30,29 Allied aircraft Allied aircraft losses Buffalo I: 1 destroyed, 3 damaged PBY Catalina: 4 destroyed, 2 damaged Japanese Ships DD Natsushio DD Hatsukaze DD Yugumo CL Isuzu CL Yura CA Kumano CA Suzuya CA Atago BB Nagato BB Kongo Allied ground losses: 35 casualties reported Guns lost 1 Airbase hits 2 Airbase supply hits 2 Runway hits 9 Port hits 4 Port supply hits 6 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Naval bombardment of Akyab, at 30,29 Allied aircraft Allied aircraft losses PBY Catalina: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged Buffalo I: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged Japanese Ships DD Minegumo DD Kuretake DD Wakatake CA Kako CA Furutaka CA Kinugasa BB Haruna Allied ground losses: 27 casualties reported Guns lost 1 Airbase hits 1 Airbase supply hits 1 Runway hits 5 Port supply hits 5 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Day Air attack on Singapore , at 23,50 Japanese aircraft Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 51 Ki-48 Lily x 46 Ki-15 Babs x 5 Japanese aircraft losses Ki-43-Ib Oscar: 8 destroyed, 11 damaged Ki-48 Lily: 8 damaged Allied ground losses: 42 casualties reported Airbase hits 12 Airbase supply hits 7 Runway hits 54 Aircraft Attacking: 20 x Ki-43-Ib Oscar bombing at 2000 feet 27 x Ki-48 Lily bombing at 15000 feet 24 x Ki-43-Ib Oscar bombing at 2000 feet 6 x Ki-48 Lily bombing at 15000 feet 4 x Ki-48 Lily bombing at 15000 feet 3 x Ki-43-Ib Oscar bombing at 2000 feet 3 x Ki-48 Lily bombing at 15000 feet 4 x Ki-48 Lily bombing at 15000 feet 2 x Ki-48 Lily bombing at 15000 feet -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Day Air attack on 5th Division, at 23,50 Allied aircraft Wirraway x 7 no losses Aircraft Attacking: 7 x Wirraway bombing at 2000 feet -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ASW attack at 47,103 Japanese Ships SS I-173, hits 2, on fire Allied Ships DD Stuart DD Le Triomphant Enjoy.

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