RE: UV retrofit (Full Version)

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Jaypea -> RE: UV retrofit (6/16/2004 7:19:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

All I can say right now for sure is that if we do Med War (and we've started initial database work) it will be roughly 30 mile hexes but will start from the WitP code base. Thus it will have all the WitP features, adjusted to a 30 mile hex (since it's a much smaller area than the half the globe shown in WitP). Next month after WitP has hit the streets we'll sit down and figure out what we can or can't do with UV vs WitP. My gut tells me that features will not be brought to UV as the time it would take to do it (if even possible)would make no sense for anyone interested in our games except those that will only own UV (and if there are many of those people in the world we won't be in business next year [:)]).


Well I really enjoyed WIR (I have played it again recently) but the idea of UV Med also sounds great. I would buy either one but my vote goes for UV MED (bomb Alley). I would hope it covers from 1939 onwards (start with British vs Italiens).

JP



Von Rom -> RE: UV retrofit (6/16/2004 7:43:00 PM)

I would also have to cast my vote for Bomb Alley. I like naval scenarios/campaigns. If UV Med is to be done, I hope that all of the Med will be included, such as North Africa (land battles), Malta, Crete, with the resulting naval clashes. . .

This would be a real fight for supply: trying to keep the Afrika Korps supplied by running the British naval/air blocades. . .

And of course, the big decision about whether to invade Malta. . .

Cheers!



Ron Saueracker -> RE: UV retrofit (6/16/2004 7:45:39 PM)

Would definitely need mid ocean naval intercepts in a Bomb Alley remake for sure.



Damien Thorn -> RE: UV retrofit (6/16/2004 7:47:49 PM)

What is this Bomb Alley that eveyone keeps talking about?



Nikademus -> RE: UV retrofit (6/16/2004 7:51:54 PM)

"Bomb Alley" was an old SSI title from back in the early 80's that covered the naval, air and land war in the Mediterranian

It used Gary Grigsby's "Guadalcanal" game engine for 8 bit computers.



elmo3 -> RE: UV retrofit (6/16/2004 8:17:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

quote:

For UV, any bugs remaining that WITP cleared up, the pilot bug for instance, should be fixed. Maybe the ship refits if it is simple since they are sooo cool. Aside from that, on to Bomb Alley or any other game which puts some money into the coffers. These boys did us all a favour with WITP, let UV stand on it's own from there.


Don't think the pilot bug can be fixed in UV Ron, remember just how many iterations we had to go through to actually fix it in WitP [;)]


One would hope that if the bug is fixed in WitP that it wouldn't be necessary to go though all those iterations again to fix it in UV!

quote:

Really, the only clear ones I can see fixing are: CV vs CV air problems (3 bugs) and bombing hexes with friendly troops.

Since they affect both sides equally, they just change the play a bit, if it was a Japan only or a Allied only bug, I'd see a lot more merit to it.


So it's OK if the something is broken as long as it's broken for both sides?! [8|]

How about this one from the UV forum that only affects one side?

Wildcats will upgrade to Corsairs if at a land base, or to Hellcats if on a carrier. So it's possible have a CV squad transferred to a land bae, upgrade to Corsairs, then jump back on a carrier. This is a bug, and intentionally doing this is generally considerd innapropriate. There have been many discussions on the topic in the past.



mjk428 -> RE: UV retrofit (6/16/2004 10:51:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ZOOMIE1980

MS no longer supports Win 3.1, Win95, or Win98, NT 3.51, or NT 4.0, why should 2x3 support a obsoleted product????


I don't know about the other OS but Win98 is still being supported with critical updates until 2006. I updated a family friend's computer yesterday. They did change their mind about this after announcing they would no longer be supporting it. And UV isn't obsolete yet. I expect it will be in a couple of weeks but that will depend on WitP living up to its promise.


In regards to the 'quick poll', I'd rather see Bomb Alley than an upgraded UV. The Med is a whole new theatre whereas the South Pacific is already part of WitP. Also, I very much enjoyed the original Gary Grigsby Bomb Alley; although I wonder just how simplisitic it would seem to me now.

Having said that, I also agree with others that a patch to fix any newly discovered bugs in UV should be done. As long as they can be corrected without a major investment. I think spending any significant amount of effort to add features to UV is a waste of limited resources. I think (hope) the UV players would be understanding about such a decision.



Mr.Frag -> RE: UV retrofit (6/16/2004 10:56:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: elmo3

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

quote:

For UV, any bugs remaining that WITP cleared up, the pilot bug for instance, should be fixed. Maybe the ship refits if it is simple since they are sooo cool. Aside from that, on to Bomb Alley or any other game which puts some money into the coffers. These boys did us all a favour with WITP, let UV stand on it's own from there.


Don't think the pilot bug can be fixed in UV Ron, remember just how many iterations we had to go through to actually fix it in WitP [;)]


One would hope that if the bug is fixed in WitP that it wouldn't be necessary to go though all those iterations again to fix it in UV!

quote:

Really, the only clear ones I can see fixing are: CV vs CV air problems (3 bugs) and bombing hexes with friendly troops.

Since they affect both sides equally, they just change the play a bit, if it was a Japan only or a Allied only bug, I'd see a lot more merit to it.


So it's OK if the something is broken as long as it's broken for both sides?! [8|]

How about this one from the UV forum that only affects one side?

Wildcats will upgrade to Corsairs if at a land base, or to Hellcats if on a carrier. So it's possible have a CV squad transferred to a land bae, upgrade to Corsairs, then jump back on a carrier. This is a bug, and intentionally doing this is generally considerd innapropriate. There have been many discussions on the topic in the past.



Not true at all, completely different code base, completely different data. Fixing stuff in UV is just as likely to add new bugs. As far as the CV aircraft swap, you have the ability to not play people who exploit what is obviously a bug to win.

I listed the ones that were UV 2.30 specific that could be fixed. Anything beyond that is likely to cause more bugs. Better the bugs you know then having to learn to work around a whole new set of unknown bugs.



Synjin -> RE: UV retrofit (6/16/2004 11:11:48 PM)

Bomb Alley would be my vote, though if I could get more, I'd actually rather see a game along the lines of WitP for that side of the world. Basically the same map size as WitP, starting around the Mississippi River of the US and going east to the border of China, and the north and south from the Arctic Ice Pack to the southern edge of the Sahara.

I'd like that more than just a "UV Med" game... though I'm sure I'll end up buying whichever you decide to produce. ;)



Damien Thorn -> RE: UV retrofit (6/16/2004 11:37:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

"Bomb Alley" was an old SSI title from back in the early 80's that covered the naval, air and land war in the Mediterranian

It used Gary Grigsby's "Guadalcanal" game engine for 8 bit computers.


Thank you for pointing that out. I wonder how I missed that one back in teh 80's. So what is the difference between a new "Bomb Aley" and a "UV Med"?
For some reason I hate the sound of the name Bomb Alley. It makes be think of "Back Alley" and some sort of street gang or crime game.



elmo3 -> RE: UV retrofit (6/17/2004 12:49:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

...Fixing stuff in UV is just as likely to add new bugs. As far as the CV aircraft swap, you have the ability to not play people who exploit what is obviously a bug to win....



You don't have much confidenece in the programmers do you!

You are certainly entitled to your opinion but I hope you're not expressing the official position of Matrix or 2by3 on whether bugs will be fixed or not.



dwesolick -> RE: UV retrofit (6/17/2004 1:00:44 AM)

It would be great if they could squeeze a little of the Atlantic into any potential UV Med game. Perhaps the eastern half so that you could do a little more U-boat stuff, as well as hunting the Bismarck, etc.

Or would it be better to have a "Battle of the Atlantic" as a stand-alone after UV Med??

Murmansk Run anyone?

edit: going to answer my own question: There would be PLENTY for another stand alone "UV-Atlantic" (convoys, u-boats, Norway invasion, Bismarck, etc, etc, drooooool)

[image]local://upfiles/6913/Yw678695661.jpg[/image]



Onime No Kyo -> RE: UV retrofit (6/17/2004 8:42:53 AM)

quote:

Murmansk Run anyone?


Umm, no thank you. That would be the most boring, one-sided game ever.



dwesolick -> RE: UV retrofit (6/17/2004 4:11:39 PM)

Uhhh, I meant Murmansk Run as part of a larger "Battle of the Atlantic" campaign...not as a stand-alone game.[8|]



ZOOMIE1980 -> RE: UV retrofit (6/17/2004 4:25:55 PM)

quote:


Also, I very much enjoyed the original Gary Grigsby Bomb Alley; although I wonder just how simplisitic it would seem to me now.


Well, I loaded an Apple IIc emulator last spring for kicks and replayed some old SSI stuff from the early-mid 80's, including that one. Still FANTASTIC games!



ZOOMIE1980 -> RE: UV retrofit (6/17/2004 4:28:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: elmo3

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

...Fixing stuff in UV is just as likely to add new bugs. As far as the CV aircraft swap, you have the ability to not play people who exploit what is obviously a bug to win....



You don't have much confidenece in the programmers do you!

You are certainly entitled to your opinion but I hope you're not expressing the official position of Matrix or 2by3 on whether bugs will be fixed or not.



It's not the programmers, its the availablity of resources vs their demands. The programmers could probably retrofit the entire WitP engine into UV and fix just about anything, if they had the time. Remember, there are only two programmers dedicated to this stuff and one is "on loan" from Matrix....and there are still only 24 hrs in a day and you have to eat, sleep, etc.... some time.



ZOOMIE1980 -> RE: UV retrofit (6/17/2004 4:31:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dwesolick

It would be great if they could squeeze a little of the Atlantic into any potential UV Med game. Perhaps the eastern half so that you could do a little more U-boat stuff, as well as hunting the Bismarck, etc.

Or would it be better to have a "Battle of the Atlantic" as a stand-alone after UV Med??

Murmansk Run anyone?

edit: going to answer my own question: There would be PLENTY for another stand alone "UV-Atlantic" (convoys, u-boats, Norway invasion, Bismarck, etc, etc, drooooool)

[image]local://upfiles/6913/Yw678695661.jpg[/image]


I would think replaying convoy after convoy after convoy would get pretty old after a while. I remember in GG's North Atlantic '86 after the initial combat phase, by the third convoy to Scapa Flow I was getting pretty bored with that phase of the game....



Oleg Mastruko -> RE: UV retrofit (6/17/2004 5:02:21 PM)

You guys are incredible. WITP, the biggest, largest, meanest, most detailed mothalovin' monster of a wargame in the history of the planet isn't officially out yet, and thread after thread is devoted to discussions what 2by3 should be doing next, and what game will you want to see [sm=00000007.gif]

I'd expect WITP to occupy us all for at least 6-8 months (though I personally plan to play this game in 5, 8, perhaps even 10 years from now, considering it's scope and size.)

Anyway, check out the game in my sig. That's officially next 2by3 project, I have the pleasure of being the beta tester for this game and it's just incredibly enjoyable and addictive once you get the hold of it. I can already hardly think of spending the summer vacation without it (my oldish laptop does have problems with it unfortunatelly, but I'm campaigning to get the new one [:D] just to be able to play WAW betas thru summer).

GG WAW is already very stable and refined and I've seen major game releases being published in less polished state. It's approach is very different from WITP, but I guess since I manage to love BOTH games (UV and WAW) same may apply to at least some of you as well. I'm grognardy as anyone here, have 5 UV long campaigns active, but WAW is going to be PBEM hit for sure, excellent to fill the time between UV/WITP turns (or the other way round [:D])

Check out the site below and longish alpha PBEM AAR here:
http://www.matrixgames.com/default.asp?URL=http%3A//www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp%3Fm%3D617205

Oh, and to stay on topic, I'd love to see them *ALL*: WiR, UV Med, UV Atlantic, UV Cold War Going Hot (a la Harpoon, only turn based) so I'm no better than you after all I guess [:D][:D][:D]

Oleg



Mr.Frag -> RE: UV retrofit (6/17/2004 5:14:33 PM)

quote:

Anyway, check out the game in my sig.


Get back in there and hurry up testing! [:D]

Now that is going to be a fun game, getting a bunch of us all together at once to fight! Looking forward to it.



dwesolick -> RE: UV retrofit (6/17/2004 5:56:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ZOOMIE1980

quote:

ORIGINAL: dwesolick

It would be great if they could squeeze a little of the Atlantic into any potential UV Med game. Perhaps the eastern half so that you could do a little more U-boat stuff, as well as hunting the Bismarck, etc.

Or would it be better to have a "Battle of the Atlantic" as a stand-alone after UV Med??

Murmansk Run anyone?

edit: going to answer my own question: There would be PLENTY for another stand alone "UV-Atlantic" (convoys, u-boats, Norway invasion, Bismarck, etc, etc, drooooool)

[image]local://upfiles/6913/Yw678695661.jpg[/image]


I would think replaying convoy after convoy after convoy would get pretty old after a while. I remember in GG's North Atlantic '86 after the initial combat phase, by the third convoy to Scapa Flow I was getting pretty bored with that phase of the game....


It wouldn't just be convoys, how about Operation Sealion, or the invasion of Norway, how about Normandy, German commerce raiders, Bismarck, the Channel Dash, the "Happy Time", etc. God, there's at least as much as UV Med is going to have...hell, more if you ask me.

Anyway, I agree with Oleg. Witp will be my focus for at least the next two years, though I do plan to purchase WaW (and EiA, Guns of August, Battlefields) don't know if I'll play much else besides WitP though.



52nd Lowland -> RE: UV retrofit (6/17/2004 6:21:41 PM)

I agree that WitP will keep us all busy for a long time.I still play UV after buying it all those months ago[:)] Best money I ever spent for a computer game [:)]



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