Wounded ships detaching (Full Version)

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Shadow of the Condor -> Wounded ships detaching (7/1/2004 6:46:40 PM)

Hi. Not too sure if this is a "bug", but definitely something I couldn't find or understand, so maybe one of the players here can help.

I'm still confused about some of the carrier operations in UV. In my game against Tabpub, Saratoga took two torpedoes and was limping home when subs tracked her down, and that was that.

To counter the sub threat I sent eight destroyers to follow Saratoga, and when they arrived in her hex I transferred them into her TF (which contained Sara and the lone escort, Gwin). Adding the eight destroyers put ten ships total in the TF. Yet the next turn, the eight I added detached from Saratoga and headed for Koumac, which was Sara's destination, leaving Gwin by herself to try and defend Sara from subs.

I completely understand a CV TF detaching a wounded destroyer who can't keep up with the TF. What I don't understand is why a CV TF (with one CV in it) would have its escorts detach from the carrier. Aren't the escorts there to protect the carrier - wounded or not?

This is definitely not "sour grapes", just a question about the logic behind destroyers leaving a carrier to fend for itself while they continue on as a CV TF with no carrier to escort.

(edit: the escorts had plenty of fuel, ammo, etc. and had no damage to themselves which would cause an auto-return)

Any comments?



jcjordan -> RE: Wounded ships detaching (7/2/2004 6:04:07 AM)

Well a tactic to try would be to have the DD TF follow the Sara TF as UV has always done that kinda thing with damaged ships, just one escort for the larger damaged ships. Sometimes the lesser ships like DD, transports & such have to make it on their own.



CMDRMCTOAST -> RE: Wounded ships detaching (7/2/2004 9:04:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shadow of the Condor

Hi. Not too sure if this is a "bug", but definitely something I couldn't find or understand, so maybe one of the players here can help.

I'm still confused about some of the carrier operations in UV. In my game against Tabpub, Saratoga took two torpedoes and was limping home when subs tracked her down, and that was that.

To counter the sub threat I sent eight destroyers to follow Saratoga, and when they arrived in her hex I transferred them into her TF (which contained Sara and the lone escort, Gwin). Adding the eight destroyers put ten ships total in the TF. Yet the next turn, the eight I added detached from Saratoga and headed for Koumac, which was Sara's destination, leaving Gwin by herself to try and defend Sara from subs.

I completely understand a CV TF detaching a wounded destroyer who can't keep up with the TF. What I don't understand is why a CV TF (with one CV in it) would have its escorts detach from the carrier. Aren't the escorts there to protect the carrier - wounded or not?

This is definitely not "sour grapes", just a question about the logic behind destroyers leaving a carrier to fend for itself while they continue on as a CV TF with no carrier to escort.

(edit: the escorts had plenty of fuel, ammo, etc. and had no damage to themselves which would cause an auto-return)

Any comments?


Definately set destroyers to follow but I would set several task groups of 2 or three
destroyers per group with SC'S also.
Make sure your destroyers have 2 different kinds of depth charges also.
and fly extra Heavy naval search missions to pick up the subs ahead and chase them down.



tabpub -> RE: Wounded ships detaching (7/2/2004 9:39:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CMDRMCTOAST

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shadow of the Condor

Hi. Not too sure if this is a "bug", but definitely something I couldn't find or understand, so maybe one of the players here can help.

I'm still confused about some of the carrier operations in UV. In my game against Tabpub, Saratoga took two torpedoes and was limping home when subs tracked her down, and that was that.

To counter the sub threat I sent eight destroyers to follow Saratoga, and when they arrived in her hex I transferred them into her TF (which contained Sara and the lone escort, Gwin). Adding the eight destroyers put ten ships total in the TF. Yet the next turn, the eight I added detached from Saratoga and headed for Koumac, which was Sara's destination, leaving Gwin by herself to try and defend Sara from subs.

I completely understand a CV TF detaching a wounded destroyer who can't keep up with the TF. What I don't understand is why a CV TF (with one CV in it) would have its escorts detach from the carrier. Aren't the escorts there to protect the carrier - wounded or not?

This is definitely not "sour grapes", just a question about the logic behind destroyers leaving a carrier to fend for itself while they continue on as a CV TF with no carrier to escort.

(edit: the escorts had plenty of fuel, ammo, etc. and had no damage to themselves which would cause an auto-return)

Any comments?


Definately set destroyers to follow but I would set several task groups of 2 or three
destroyers per group with SC'S also.
Make sure your destroyers have 2 different kinds of depth charges also.
and fly extra Heavy naval search missions to pick up the subs ahead and chase them down.

As his opponent, I can relate the following. He evidently had a 6-8 DD group following, but it was never encountered by the sub. Saratoga had been initally hit about 8 hexes south of Rossel (as I remember) and she was making for Noumea. 4 I boats pursued on the same heading and Sara was sighted by my Search, allowing me an accurate vector on her. When they caught her, she was at least 30 hexes out from Noumea still, right around just SE of the SEA in "CORAL SEA" on the map...so, she was in the middle of nowhere. Personally, as he had just waxed my air wings badly in the air battle prior, I think I would have kept the entire force around her on follow, with CAP up and the battered SBD and TBF wings flying ASW missions even with their low morale and high fatigue. Now, this presumes that you figure that she is going to make it too port; if it didn't look likely, pull the plug and save 30-35 points.
I don't mind the auto split function that bad, but I wish that it was a one time thing and that you could reinforce the cripples screen if you choose. Hope that they changed that in WITP(heading there now....)



AmiralLaurent -> RE: Wounded ships detaching (7/2/2004 4:16:45 PM)

In WITP, there is now a 'escort' TF type, done to escort damaged ships. It will probably solve this problem



Shadow of the Condor -> RE: Wounded ships detaching (7/2/2004 5:52:27 PM)

Thanks for the input. Just for clarification, I had actually sent twogroups of 8 DDs to Sara...and a PBY squadron at Koumac on 100% ASW and 1000 ft.

Having the DDs on "Follow" kept them in the same hex, but they apparently had no impact in the sub's ability to detect the carrier. I was under the impression that a sub has a better chance to attack the carrier when there is only one escort. Having more escorts actually in the CV TF should (if I understand the detect/attack process) give the TF a better chance to spot the sub and chase it under, or have the sub line up on the wrong target.

Again, I was just wondering why the programming decision to send escorts away from a damaged carrier was made. I can't understand the rationale.

[:)]



Black Cat -> RE: Wounded ships detaching (7/2/2004 6:44:57 PM)

Subs, both US and Japanese have an excellent chance of attacking badly damaged ships if in the same Hex, this is probably hardcoded into the attack success results die roll.

More escorts in the Hex won`t help, but getting them in front of, or on a course to, the damaged ship might if they find the Sub.



Nomad -> RE: Wounded ships detaching (7/5/2004 6:22:52 AM)

Actually, this is a known bug and has been discussed before. You combine the DDs with the damaged CV TF and then during execution it splits again. Also, if you just leave the damaged CV TF alone it will split again into a new numbered TF and the old number becomes an empty TF, making trying to have LRCAP over it useless too. This will also negate the follow command since the Tf with the number you are following disappears.



Shadow of the Condor -> RE: Wounded ships detaching (7/5/2004 5:09:57 PM)

quote:

originally posted by Nomad

Actually, this is a known bug and has been discussed before. You combine the DDs with the damaged CV TF and then during execution it splits again. Also, if you just leave the damaged CV TF alone it will split again into a new numbered TF and the old number becomes an empty TF, making trying to have LRCAP over it useless too. This will also negate the follow command since the Tf with the number you are following disappears.


Thanks Nomad - I thought I remembered reading something on this in the pre-spammer days. Just wasn't too sure if my grey hair was responsible for both the loss of Saratoga and my memory. [;)]

Actually, I think I have found a fix for the bug.

Stop getting my carriers shot to h*** .



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