PT Boat = no fun

PT Boat = no fun (Full Version)

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Goufy -> PT Boat = no fun (7/26/2004 8:38:13 PM)
<No comment> quote: AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 07/02/44 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Saipan at 63,64 Japanese Ships BB Kongo, Shell hits 4 BB Haruna, Shell hits 6 CA Tone, Shell hits 2, on fire CA Chikuma, Shell hits 3 CA Takao, Shell hits 2, on fire CA Atago CA Maya, Shell hits 1 CA Chokai, Shell hits 5 CA Myoko, Shell hits 4 CA Haguro, Shell hits 4 CA Mogami, Shell hits 1 CA Suzuya, Shell hits 1 CA Kumano CL Oyodo, Shell hits 3, on fire CL Noshiro, Shell hits 1 CL Yahagi, Shell hits 4, on fire CL Oi, Shell hits 3 Allied Ships CA Indianapolis, Shell hits 5 CA Louisville, Shell hits 9 CA Salt Lake City, Shell hits 1 CA New Orleans, Shell hits 3 CA Canberra, Shell hits 1 DD Colahan, Shell hits 1, on fire DD Cowell, Shell hits 4 DD Dyson, Shell hits 4, and is sunk DD Remey, Shell hits 10, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk DD Renshaw, Shell hits 2 DD Spence DD Cassin Young DD Welles DD Mugford DD Kennison -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Saipan at 63,64 Allied aircraft no flights Allied aircraft losses SOC-3 Seagull: 8 destroyed Japanese Ships BB Kongo, Shell hits 1 BB Haruna, Shell hits 10, on fire CA Tone, Shell hits 5, on fire CA Chikuma, Shell hits 11, on fire, heavy damage CA Takao, Shell hits 14, on fire CA Atago, Shell hits 3 CA Maya, Shell hits 2 CA Chokai CA Myoko, Shell hits 2 CA Haguro, Shell hits 1 CA Mogami CA Suzuya, Shell hits 3 CA Kumano CL Oyodo, on fire CL Noshiro, Shell hits 3, on fire, heavy damage CL Yahagi, on fire CL Oi Allied Ships CA Indianapolis, Shell hits 5, on fire CA Louisville, Shell hits 3, on fire CA Salt Lake City, Shell hits 10, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk CA New Orleans, Shell hits 4 CA Canberra DD Colahan, Shell hits 3, on fire, heavy damage DD Cowell, Shell hits 17, and is sunk DD Renshaw, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk DD Spence, Shell hits 4, on fire DD Cassin Young, Shell hits 2, on fire DD Welles DD Mugford DD Kennison, Shell hits 3, and is sunk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Saipan at 63,64 Japanese Ships BB Kongo, Shell hits 4 BB Haruna, on fire CA Tone, on fire CA Chikuma, Shell hits 1, on fire, heavy damage CA Takao, Shell hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, on fire CA Atago CA Maya CA Chokai CA Myoko CA Haguro CA Mogami CA Suzuya CA Kumano CL Oyodo, on fire CL Noshiro, on fire, heavy damage CL Yahagi, on fire CL Oi Allied Ships PT PT-20, Shell hits 1, on fire, heavy damage PT PT-23 PT PT-24 PT PT-25 PT PT-73 PT PT-79 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Saipan at 63,64 Japanese Ships BB Kongo, Shell hits 1 BB Haruna, Shell hits 8, Torpedo hits 1, on fire CA Tone, on fire CA Chikuma, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage CA Takao, on fire, heavy damage CA Atago CA Maya CA Chokai CA Myoko CA Haguro CA Mogami CA Suzuya CA Kumano CL Oyodo, on fire CL Noshiro, on fire, heavy damage CL Yahagi, on fire CL Oi Allied Ships PT PT-26 PT PT-27 PT PT-29, Shell hits 2, and is sunk PT PT-250, Shell hits 2, on fire, heavy damage PT PT-338 PT PT-530 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Saipan at 63,64 Japanese Ships BB Kongo BB Haruna, on fire CA Tone, on fire CA Chikuma, on fire, heavy damage CA Takao, on fire, heavy damage CA Atago CA Maya CA Chokai CA Myoko CA Haguro CA Mogami CA Suzuya CA Kumano CL Oyodo, on fire CL Noshiro, on fire, heavy damage CL Yahagi, on fire CL Oi Allied Ships PT PT-40 PT PT-42 PT PT-45 PT PT-128, Shell hits 2, and is sunk PT PT-138 PT PT-533 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Saipan at 63,64 Japanese aircraft no flights Japanese aircraft losses F1M2 Pete: 5 destroyed Japanese Ships BB Kongo, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk BB Haruna, on fire CA Tone, Shell hits 6, on fire, heavy damage CA Chikuma, Shell hits 2, on fire, heavy damage CA Takao, Shell hits 9, on fire, heavy damage CA Atago, Shell hits 1 CA Maya CA Chokai CA Myoko CA Haguro CA Mogami CA Suzuya CA Kumano CL Oyodo, on fire CL Noshiro, on fire, heavy damage CL Yahagi, on fire CL Oi Allied Ships PT PT-129, Shell hits 14, and is sunk PT PT-134 PT PT-307 PT PT-468 PT PT-473 PT PT-550 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Saipan at 63,64 Japanese Ships BB Haruna, on fire CA Tone, Shell hits 1, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage CA Chikuma, Shell hits 6, on fire, heavy damage CA Takao, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage CA Atago, Shell hits 3, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage CA Maya, Shell hits 3 CA Chokai CA Myoko CA Haguro CA Mogami CA Suzuya, Shell hits 4 CA Kumano, Shell hits 1 CL Oyodo, on fire CL Noshiro, Shell hits 6, on fire, heavy damage CL Yahagi, Shell hits 2, on fire CL Oi Allied Ships PT PT-46 PT PT-47, Shell hits 119, and is sunk PT PT-334 PT PT-466 PT PT-493, Shell hits 19, heavy damage PT PT-544 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Saipan at 63,64 Japanese Ships BB Haruna, Shell hits 2, on fire CA Tone, on fire, heavy damage CA Chikuma, Shell hits 4, on fire, heavy damage CA Takao, on fire, heavy damage CA Atago, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage CA Maya CA Chokai CA Myoko, Shell hits 5 CA Haguro CA Mogami, Shell hits 2 CA Suzuya CA Kumano CL Oyodo, Shell hits 11, on fire CL Noshiro, on fire, heavy damage CL Yahagi, on fire CL Oi Allied Ships PT PT-62, Shell hits 3, and is sunk PT PT-105, Shell hits 23, on fire, heavy damage PT PT-237 PT PT-308 PT PT-309 PT PT-551 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Saipan at 63,64 Japanese aircraft no flights Japanese aircraft losses E13A1 Jake: 7 destroyed Japanese Ships BB Haruna, Shell hits 2, on fire CA Tone, Shell hits 15, on fire, heavy damage CA Chikuma, Shell hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk CA Takao, Shell hits 6, on fire, heavy damage CA Atago, Shell hits 3, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage CA Maya, Shell hits 7, Torpedo hits 1 CA Chokai, Shell hits 2 CA Myoko CA Haguro CA Mogami CA Suzuya CA Kumano CL Oyodo, on fire CL Noshiro, on fire, heavy damage CL Yahagi, on fire CL Oi Allied Ships PT PT-63 PT PT-64 PT PT-65 PT PT-236 PT PT-314, Shell hits 14, and is sunk PT PT-476 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Saipan at 63,64 Japanese Ships BB Haruna, on fire CA Tone, Shell hits 4, on fire, heavy damage CA Takao, on fire, heavy damage CA Atago, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage CA Maya CA Chokai, Torpedo hits 1, on fire CA Myoko CA Haguro CA Mogami CA Suzuya CA Kumano CL Oyodo, on fire CL Noshiro, on fire, heavy damage CL Yahagi, on fire CL Oi Allied Ships PT PT-66 PT PT-77 PT PT-106 PT PT-107, Shell hits 4, on fire, heavy damage PT PT-313 PT PT-381 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Saipan at 63,64 Japanese aircraft no flights Japanese aircraft losses E13A1 Jake: 2 destroyed F1M2 Pete: 2 destroyed Japanese Ships BB Haruna, Shell hits 6, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage CA Tone, Shell hits 11, on fire, heavy damage CA Takao, Shell hits 9, on fire, heavy damage CA Atago, and is sunk CA Maya, Shell hits 6 CA Chokai, Shell hits 10, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage CA Myoko, Shell hits 3 CA Haguro CA Mogami CA Suzuya, Shell hits 5 CA Kumano, Shell hits 3 CL Oyodo, Shell hits 10, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage CL Noshiro, on fire, heavy damage CL Yahagi, on fire CL Oi Allied Ships PT PT-108 PT PT-124 PT PT-125 PT PT-126 PT PT-130 PT PT-527 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Saipan at 63,64 Japanese Ships BB Haruna, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage CA Tone, Shell hits 16, on fire, heavy damage CA Takao, on fire, heavy damage CA Maya, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage CA Chokai, Shell hits 5, on fire, heavy damage CA Myoko, Shell hits 4 CA Haguro CA Mogami CA Suzuya, Shell hits 6 CA Kumano CL Oyodo, on fire, heavy damage CL Noshiro, on fire, heavy damage CL Yahagi, on fire CL Oi Allied Ships PT PT-131 PT PT-132, Shell hits 24, on fire, heavy damage PT PT-163 PT PT-300 PT PT-312 PT PT-325, Shell hits 25, and is sunk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Saipan at 63,64 Japanese Ships BB Haruna, on fire, heavy damage CA Tone, on fire, heavy damage CA Takao, on fire, heavy damage CA Maya, on fire, heavy damage CA Chokai, on fire, heavy damage CA Myoko CA Haguro CA Mogami CA Suzuya CA Kumano CL Oyodo, on fire, heavy damage CL Noshiro, on fire, heavy damage CL Yahagi, on fire CL Oi Allied Ships PT PT-133 PT PT-137 PT PT-167 PT PT-342, Shell hits 7, and is sunk PT PT-362 PT PT-534 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Saipan at 63,64 Japanese aircraft no flights Japanese aircraft losses E13A1 Jake: 5 destroyed Japanese Ships BB Haruna, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk CA Tone, on fire, heavy damage CA Takao, on fire, heavy damage CA Maya, on fire, heavy damage CA Chokai, on fire, heavy damage CA Myoko, Torpedo hits 1, on fire CA Haguro CA Mogami CA Suzuya CA Kumano CL Oyodo, on fire, heavy damage CL Noshiro, on fire, heavy damage CL Yahagi, on fire CL Oi Allied Ships PT PT-168, Shell hits 3, and is sunk PT PT-169 PT PT-170 PT PT-460 PT PT-462 PT PT-545 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Saipan at 63,64 Japanese Ships CA Tone, on fire, heavy damage CA Takao, Shell hits 2, on fire, heavy damage CA Maya, Shell hits 8, on fire, heavy damage CA Chokai, on fire, heavy damage CA Myoko, on fire CA Haguro, Shell hits 7 CA Mogami, Torpedo hits 1 CA Suzuya CA Kumano CL Oyodo, on fire, heavy damage CL Noshiro, on fire, heavy damage CL Yahagi, on fire CL Oi Allied Ships PT PT-235 PT PT-238 PT PT-249 PT PT-305 PT PT-372, Shell hits 8, and is sunk PT PT-377 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Saipan at 63,64 Japanese aircraft no flights Japanese aircraft losses E13A1 Jake: 7 destroyed Japanese Ships CA Tone, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk CA Takao, on fire, heavy damage CA Maya, on fire, heavy damage CA Chokai, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage CA Myoko, on fire CA Haguro CA Mogami CA Suzuya CA Kumano CL Oyodo, on fire, heavy damage CL Noshiro, on fire, heavy damage CL Yahagi, on fire CL Oi Allied Ships PT PT-310 PT PT-343 PT PT-464 PT PT-483 PT PT-531, Shell hits 3, on fire, heavy damage PT PT-535 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Saipan at 63,64 Japanese aircraft no flights Japanese aircraft losses E13A1 Jake: 4 destroyed F1M2 Pete: 3 destroyed Japanese Ships CA Takao, Shell hits 2, and is sunk CA Maya, Shell hits 7, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk CA Chokai, Shell hits 4, on fire, heavy damage CA Myoko, Shell hits 6, on fire CA Haguro, Torpedo hits 1 CA Mogami, Shell hits 4, on fire CA Suzuya, Shell hits 5, on fire CA Kumano CL Oyodo, on fire, heavy damage CL Noshiro, on fire, heavy damage CL Yahagi, on fire CL Oi Allied Ships PT PT-248 PT PT-261 PT PT-262 PT PT-306, Shell hits 4, and is sunk PT PT-471 PT PT-486 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Saipan at 63,64 Japanese Ships CA Chokai, on fire, heavy damage CA Myoko, on fire CA Haguro CA Mogami, on fire CA Suzuya, on fire CA Kumano CL Oyodo, on fire, heavy damage CL Noshiro, on fire, heavy damage CL Yahagi, on fire CL Oi Allied Ships PT PT-263, Shell hits 1, and is sunk PT PT-264 PT PT-321 PT PT-450, Shell hits 2, and is sunk PT PT-455 PT PT-536 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Saipan at 63,64 Japanese Ships CA Chokai, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage CA Myoko, on fire CA Haguro, on fire CA Mogami, on fire CA Suzuya, on fire CA Kumano CL Oyodo, on fire, heavy damage CL Noshiro, on fire, heavy damage CL Yahagi, on fire CL Oi Allied Ships PT PT-301 PT PT-315 PT PT-463 PT PT-522 PT PT-524, Shell hits 28, on fire, heavy damage PT PT-549, Shell hits 4, on fire, heavy damage -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Saipan at 63,64 Japanese aircraft no flights Japanese aircraft losses E13A1 Jake: 4 destroyed Japanese Ships CA Chokai, and is sunk CA Myoko, Shell hits 2, on fire CA Haguro, on fire CA Mogami, Shell hits 3, on fire CA Suzuya, Shell hits 3, Torpedo hits 1, on fire CA Kumano CL Oyodo, on fire, heavy damage CL Noshiro, on fire, heavy damage CL Yahagi, on fire, heavy damage CL Oi Allied Ships PT PT-304, Shell hits 7, on fire, heavy damage PT PT-311 PT PT-320 PT PT-323, Shell hits 1, and is sunk PT PT-324 PT PT-361 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Saipan at 63,64 Japanese aircraft no flights Japanese aircraft losses F1M2 Pete: 6 destroyed E13A1 Jake: 2 destroyed Japanese Ships CA Myoko, Shell hits 14, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk CA Haguro, Shell hits 8, on fire CA Mogami, Shell hits 6, on fire CA Suzuya, Shell hits 9, Torpedo hits 1, on fire CA Kumano, Shell hits 2 CL Oyodo, Shell hits 10, on fire, heavy damage CL Noshiro, Shell hits 11, Torpedo hits 4, and is sunk CL Yahagi, Shell hits 4, on fire, heavy damage CL Oi Allied Ships PT PT-322 PT PT-332 PT PT-333, Shell hits 2, on fire PT PT-341 PT PT-451 PT PT-534, Shell hits 75, and is sunk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Saipan at 63,64 Japanese Ships CA Haguro, on fire CA Mogami, Torpedo hits 1, on fire CA Suzuya, on fire, heavy damage CA Kumano, Torpedo hits 1, on fire CL Oyodo, on fire, heavy damage CL Yahagi, on fire, heavy damage CL Oi Allied Ships PT PT-335, Shell hits 12, on fire, heavy damage PT PT-360 PT PT-374 PT PT-481 PT PT-482 PT PT-543 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Saipan at 63,64 Japanese Ships CA Haguro, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage CA Mogami, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage CA Suzuya, on fire, heavy damage CA Kumano, on fire CL Oyodo, on fire, heavy damage CL Yahagi, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage CL Oi Allied Ships PT PT-340 PT PT-363 PT PT-373 PT PT-452 PT PT-479 PT PT-525 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Saipan at 63,64 Japanese aircraft no flights Japanese aircraft losses E13A1 Jake: 4 destroyed Japanese Ships CA Haguro, Shell hits 9, on fire, heavy damage CA Mogami, Shell hits 7, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage CA Suzuya, Shell hits 12, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk CA Kumano, Shell hits 3, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage CL Oyodo, on fire, heavy damage CL Yahagi, Shell hits 9, on fire, heavy damage CL Oi Allied Ships PT PT-461 PT PT-474, Shell hits 6, and is sunk PT PT-478 PT PT-523 PT PT-526 PT PT-546 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Saipan at 63,64 Japanese Ships CA Haguro, Shell hits 10, on fire, heavy damage CA Mogami, Shell hits 10, on fire, heavy damage CA Kumano, Shell hits 8, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage CL Oyodo, Shell hits 14, on fire, heavy damage CL Yahagi, Shell hits 6, on fire, heavy damage CL Oi, Shell hits 13, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk Allied Ships PT PT-375 PT PT-383 PT PT-453 PT PT-528 PT PT-529 PT PT-538 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Saipan at 63,64 Japanese Ships CA Haguro, Shell hits 9, on fire, heavy damage CA Mogami, Shell hits 8, on fire, heavy damage CA Kumano, Shell hits 6, on fire, heavy damage CL Oyodo, Shell hits 15, on fire, heavy damage CL Yahagi, Shell hits 7, on fire, heavy damage Allied Ships PT PT-376 PT PT-467 PT PT-472 PT PT-485 PT PT-497 PT PT-532 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Saipan at 63,64 Japanese aircraft no flights Japanese aircraft losses F1M2 Pete: 4 destroyed Japanese Ships CA Haguro, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage CA Mogami, on fire, heavy damage CA Kumano, on fire, heavy damage CL Oyodo, on fire, heavy damage CL Yahagi, and is sunk Allied Ships PT PT-382 PT PT-454 PT PT-465 PT PT-469 PT PT-470 PT PT-542 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Saipan at 63,64 Japanese aircraft no flights Japanese aircraft losses E13A1 Jake: 4 destroyed Japanese Ships CA Haguro, on fire, heavy damage CA Mogami, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk CA Kumano, Shell hits 16, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage CL Oyodo, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage Allied Ships PT PT-475 PT PT-484 PT PT-487 PT PT-496 PT PT-537 PT PT-539, Shell hits 1, on fire, heavy damage -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Saipan at 63,64 Japanese aircraft no flights Japanese aircraft losses F1M2 Pete: 4 destroyed E13A1 Jake: 3 destroyed Japanese Ships CA Haguro, Shell hits 23, on fire, heavy damage CA Kumano, and is sunk CL Oyodo, and is sunk Allied Ships PT PT-477 PT PT-480 PT PT-540 PT PT-541 PT PT-547 PT PT-548

2ndACR -> RE: PT Boat = no fun (7/26/2004 8:41:28 PM)
Thats why I plan on PT boats being my main battle fleet. Who needs carriers. I have already faced them and learned that they rule the waves. Seeing as how any 2 will become the shell magnets while the rest savage your force.

Grotius -> RE: PT Boat = no fun (7/26/2004 8:48:56 PM)
It does seem that PT boats are overpowered. Does Matrix plan to address this in a patch?

PeteG662 -> RE: PT Boat = no fun (7/26/2004 8:55:06 PM)
Just keep in mind those shell hits are 50 cal and maybe 20mm so not likely very much damage. Torps are in limited supply so they can get a few licks in. Most of what I have seen in the games are 5 inch and below get hits back on PTs but most of the larger caliber don't get many hits. Yes, PTs do have a bit of a punch in the game.

Moquia -> RE: PT Boat = no fun (7/26/2004 9:15:59 PM)
What I see is a gong-ho japanse player getting punished. Ever heard of destroyers?

PeteG662 -> RE: PT Boat = no fun (7/26/2004 9:27:18 PM)
exactly my point

Tanaka -> RE: PT Boat = no fun (7/26/2004 10:02:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moquia What I see is a gong-ho japanse player getting punished. Ever heard of destroyers? i get the same type results even when i use destroyers.

Damien Thorn -> RE: PT Boat = no fun (7/26/2004 10:11:24 PM)
I don't think there is anyone, not even the most rabid allied fanboy, who can defend the Uber PT boats in this game. Many suggestions have been made as to what to do about them but something must be done. Until then everyone should adopt the hose rule of NO PT BOATS. PS. This is not just an allied thing. Japan also has PT boats.

Capt. Harlock -> RE: PT Boat = no fun (7/26/2004 10:21:49 PM)
The things that puzzle me is why there were so many rounds of combat, and why the PT boats never seemed to run out of torpedoes. Something not right there.

Fallschirmjager -> RE: PT Boat = no fun (7/26/2004 10:24:10 PM)
Destroyers make no differnce...they simply get plunked by 20mm and .50 cal fire since they have no armor and then get hit by waves of torpedos. BB's and CA's have secondary guns that should of gotten lots of hits and CL's with their smaller main batteries and secondaries should have gotten lots of hits.

Moquia -> RE: PT Boat = no fun (7/26/2004 10:39:47 PM)
Ok, I just tried the Saipan scenario, head to head. Made a PT TF sail to Guam and let it refuel. Saved. Then made a surface combat TF without destroyers, reloaded and made one with destroyers. Both times Tanaka was in charge: AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/17/44 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Guam at 62,66 Japanese Ships BB Kongo BB Haruna, Shell hits 5, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage CA Tone CA Chikuma CA Takao, Shell hits 1 CA Atago Allied Ships PT PT-264, Shell hits 21, on fire, heavy damage PT PT-307, Shell hits 1, and is sunk PT PT-309, Shell hits 8, on fire, heavy damage PT PT-310 PT PT-311 PT PT-312 PT PT-315 PT PT-321 PT PT-323 AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/17/44 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Guam at 62,66 Japanese Ships BB Kongo BB Haruna CA Tone CA Chikuma CA Takao CA Atago DD Akitsuki DD Hatsuzuki DD Wakazuki DD Shimotsuki DD Fujinami DD Kishinami Allied Ships PT PT-264, Shell hits 26, heavy damage PT PT-307, Shell hits 16, on fire, heavy damage PT PT-309, Shell hits 1 PT PT-310 PT PT-311 PT PT-312, Shell hits 1, on fire, heavy damage PT PT-315, Shell hits 4, and is sunk PT PT-321, Shell hits 4, and is sunk PT PT-323

Mr.Frag -> RE: PT Boat = no fun (7/26/2004 10:55:34 PM)
Care to try during daylight?

Goufy -> RE: PT Boat = no fun (7/26/2004 11:01:24 PM)
interesting. so the bigger are also the dumber ? they have big guns but don't know how to use their numerous small one to keep at distance the PT Boat even if they don't catch them... If i want a bombardement group that i don't want to be too near the shore, i don't put DD in it right? so i need to have other Task force to protect it and pray that they will catch the Pt Boat? But even will a normal Task Force, if a encounter 5 Task Force of PT Boat i will loose time and will have to cancel the mission. I think the PT Boat are described as a first class weapon in this game and you should take them very seriously but it was not the case in the war, just a nuisance and transport tool me thinks.

KHawk -> RE: PT Boat = no fun (7/26/2004 11:08:19 PM)
I counted a 162 PT Boats in just this one battle. If memory serves me correctly that�s between 1/3 to 1/2 of all Boats that served in the Pacific. I think the problem is the ability to mass the boats in one location. Maybe there should be a limit for each base or port. Just My Thoughts, KHawk

Moquia -> RE: PT Boat = no fun (7/26/2004 11:23:06 PM)
Same setup dayattack: AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/17/44 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Day Time Surface Combat, near Guam at 62,66 Japanese Ships BB Kongo BB Haruna CA Tone CA Chikuma, Torpedo hits 1 CA Takao CA Atago Allied Ships PT PT-264, Shell hits 1, and is sunk PT PT-307 PT PT-309 PT PT-310 PT PT-311 PT PT-312 PT PT-315 PT PT-321 PT PT-323 AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/17/44 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Day Time Surface Combat, near Guam at 62,66 Japanese Ships BB Kongo BB Haruna CA Tone CA Chikuma CA Takao, Torpedo hits 1, on fire CA Atago DD Akitsuki DD Hatsuzuki DD Wakazuki DD Shimotsuki DD Tamanami DD Fujinami Allied Ships PT PT-264, Shell hits 3, and is sunk PT PT-307 PT PT-309, Shell hits 3, and is sunk PT PT-310, Shell hits 5, and is sunk PT PT-311, Shell hits 1, on fire, heavy damage PT PT-312 PT PT-315, Shell hits 1 PT PT-321 PT PT-323

Mr.Frag -> RE: PT Boat = no fun (7/26/2004 11:42:23 PM)
Remove the BB/CA's and just use the smaller ships to cut the kill range. ie: Try some DD only during daylight.

Damien Thorn -> RE: PT Boat = no fun (7/27/2004 12:28:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag Remove the BB/CA's and just use the smaller ships to cut the kill range. ie: Try some DD only during daylight. Yeah, and make sure they are traveling at exactly 23.75 knts, heading East or South ONLY and make sure all the ships have lots of ice cream on board. [8\|] Come on, how many hoops should someone have to jump through to try and save themselves from the uber-PT boats.

Moquia -> RE: PT Boat = no fun (7/27/2004 12:35:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag Remove the BB/CA's and just use the smaller ships to cut the kill range. ie: Try some DD only during daylight. Oh Mr Frag, your wish is my command: Again Tanaka is flying the flag. AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/17/44 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Guam at 62,66 Japanese Ships DD Akitsuki DD Hatsuzuki DD Wakazuki DD Shimotsuki Allied Ships PT PT-264, Shell hits 7, and is sunk PT PT-307 PT PT-309 PT PT-310 PT PT-311 PT PT-312, Shell hits 9, and is sunk PT PT-315 PT PT-321, Shell hits 36, on fire, heavy damage PT PT-323 AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/17/44 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Day Time Surface Combat, near Guam at 62,66 Japanese Ships DD Akitsuki DD Hatsuzuki DD Wakazuki DD Shimotsuki Allied Ships PT PT-264, Shell hits 6, and is sunk PT PT-307, Shell hits 4, and is sunk PT PT-309 PT PT-310, Shell hits 4, and is sunk PT PT-311 PT PT-312, Shell hits 2, on fire, heavy damage PT PT-315 PT PT-321, Shell hits 1 PT PT-323 My point is: Yes you can be gamey using the PT boats in a game, but I don't think they are way overpowered. EDIT: Maybe my new sig: [image]local://upfiles/12935/Vt580010968.jpg[/image]

Mr.Frag -> RE: PT Boat = no fun (7/27/2004 12:36:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Damien Thorn quote: ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag Remove the BB/CA's and just use the smaller ships to cut the kill range. ie: Try some DD only during daylight. Yeah, and make sure they are traveling at exactly 23.75 knts, heading East or South ONLY and make sure all the ships have lots of ice cream on board. [8\|] Come on, how many hoops should someone have to jump through to try and save themselves from the uber-PT boats. Jeeze! Who's saying anything ... I'm simply asking someone to post variations of the first posted results so I can spend my time testing other stuff. If you want to cop an attitude ... go find someone else to do all your bloody testing. I've had enough crap from people today.

Bradley7735 -> RE: PT Boat = no fun (7/27/2004 1:07:11 AM)
Hi Frag, I hope you know that 99% of the people on this forum really appreciate what you've done for us (and all the other Matrix people, testers, spooky, etc). I bet if you had been away from your computer as long as Mogami, there'd be just as many concerned posts for you. I think Damien thought you were suggesting a work around to the problem, not requesting help on the testing. I agree with both of you. There should be some tests done to see if there is a problem (it does look like it, and I'm an allied fan club), and we should hope for a non-house rules work around. Please keep up the good work.

SunDevil_MatrixForum -> RE: PT Boat = no fun (7/27/2004 3:23:31 AM)
Didn't it say in another main forum post that the patch is being tested right now? So would anyone rather have Mr. Frag test the PT boat problem which was brought up two weeks ago in the main forum, where in the daylight PT boats got Pwned, or have Mr. Frag test the patch that is coming out? I think if people are going to bring up something that they wanted looked at, at less be willing to test another point of view without getting an attitude. Just my .02 cents P.S. Damien Thorn, if you go look in your profile and then go through your last 100 posts that Mr. Frag has answered your questions so I do not understand your last post.

Tankerace -> RE: PT Boat = no fun (7/27/2004 3:44:30 AM)
As for the big ships not hitting the PT boats, remember this. On the Big Japanese BBs, there secondary guns (5.5 and 6.1" guns) were only in turrets on the Yamatos. The rest were in casemates, and thus had no director control. Thus, hits on fast moving PT boats are not likely. Now on smaller ships (destroyers) hits are more likely, as all guns have director control. Plus, when you factor in movement and maneuvering rates, night time combat, etc, the PT Boats come into their element. And if one gets hit and burns, the others are going to fire on what they can see, not what they can't. During daylight, however, the PT boats, if not hit, should at least retreat. I don't think any commander of an 80 foot plywood boat is gonna charge in on the guns of a whole Japanese TF in broad daylight. FWIW, in my own experience as an Allied player, my PT boats aren't that effective. I had a setup of 6 PTs against a lone AP, and only 1 torp hit was scored, and the AP withdrew. And the PTs had expended 90% of all their torps. It would seem to me the results are fairly random, one player has normal PTs, another uber PTs. Just what I seem to observe.

Damien Thorn -> RE: PT Boat = no fun (7/27/2004 3:59:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag Jeeze! Who's saying anything ... I'm simply asking someone to post variations of the first posted results so I can spend my time testing other stuff. If you want to cop an attitude ... go find someone else to do all your bloody testing. I've had enough crap from people today. Sorry. I misunderstood. I thought you were telling him your strategy for a workaround and not taking his concern over the PT boats seriously. I am glad I was mistaken.

Wilhammer -> RE: PT Boat = no fun (7/27/2004 4:54:55 AM)
I always have thought PT boats should be treated like planes as well - they are operational much the same. Relativley short ranged, lightweight pleasure craft with guns and torpedoes, about as rugged as say a P-40. That being the case, one would like to see flotillas of PT boats with operational damage much like aircraft squadrons, and a range limit, like aircraft. One flaw of PTs in the game, and one could think the code could be made to stop it, is they have unlimited range - if you hop skip them down a chain of rcurring TFs, you could have them sail on their puny hulls from one end of the Pacific to the other. Which, was not the case, at least for American PTs. Those things came either combat loaded (like a ready aircraft for the Army on a carrier) or boxed (as a crated A/C on an AK). They are not Ships - they are boats - and they should be modeled much like aircraft for the reasons I offer above. Perhaps a good fix for them is to subject them to very high operational damage rates, on par to the rates we see on A/C. Make it a worse rate if those things are just bobbing themselves back to port.

Caltone -> RE: PT Boat = no fun (7/27/2004 5:18:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KHawk I counted a 162 PT Boats in just this one battle. If memory serves me correctly that�s between 1/3 to 1/2 of all Boats that served in the Pacific. I think the problem is the ability to mass the boats in one location. Maybe there should be a limit for each base or port. Just My Thoughts, KHawk Holy Smokes! [X(][X(][X(][X(] That's a bit much huh?

gunnergoz -> RE: PT Boat = no fun (7/27/2004 8:09:11 AM)
In my experience, PT can mean "Pretty Traumatizing" to your opponents. I use squadrons of 6 boats and when they connect, they usually get in 1-2 torp hits and a bunch of smaller gun hits. Usually, they also get at least one of their number creamed. Sounds pretty realisitic to me. But I don't target surface combatants with them, only AK's & escort vessels. They are fast, small and agile and make very difficult targets until they are locked in on their runs. But they can be very difficult launch platforms, which also means that their accuracy sucks.

Goufy -> RE: PT Boat = no fun (7/27/2004 10:15:46 AM)
I have no problem with the result of one encounter with PT Boat TF. But if a TF at night, even with DD, encounters 4 or 5 PT Boat TF of 5 in a row, and that can be easily done, then it can have surprise half the time and put 1 or 2 torpedo each time on a BB or CA. That will be 4 to 5 torpedo total, enough for the BB or CA to be a easy target in daylight. Can you do your test with more than one encounter: let them meet three or four TF of PT boat the same night. To prevent this gamey tactic, i would like to have the attacks after the first one less probable, so player will spread their torpedo boat all over their base and not in one place.

Damien Thorn -> RE: PT Boat = no fun (7/27/2004 4:24:03 PM)
There is also the stupid rule that PT boats won't be attacked unless you set your bombers to 100 feet. The problem is that if your bombers go after anything else with that height setting they will get creamed by flak. The manual says that fighter-bombers are exempt from this targeting restriction but that only adds insult to injury since Japan doesn't even have any FB until much later in the game. I'd like my bombers to target PT boats if there are no other naval targets in the area. Those things are battleship killers and deserve to get targeted like any other threat.

esteban -> RE: PT Boat = no fun (7/27/2004 5:11:04 PM)
The problem is that PT boats should not be able to move away from coastlines. As it is right now, PT boats can sail across the North Pacific and raid shipping in Tokyo Bay, if that is what you want. You should be able to bring them on an invasion like the Marianas, but crated as cargo. Then if you have a base or a PT tender, you can uncrate them and rebuild the squadron. But this bit where people use them as oceangoing escorts is ahistorical and more than a bit much. I also agree with the bit about letting all aircraft dive down to hit PT boats, like fighter bombers do. Requiring other aircraft to be set to 100 feet altitude creates big flak losses against anything other than a PT boat.

Moquia -> RE: PT Boat = no fun (7/27/2004 8:05:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Goufy I have no problem with the result of one encounter with PT Boat TF. But if a TF at night, even with DD, encounters 4 or 5 PT Boat TF of 5 in a row, and that can be easily done, then it can have surprise half the time and put 1 or 2 torpedo each time on a BB or CA. That will be 4 to 5 torpedo total, enough for the BB or CA to be a easy target in daylight. Here is a night attack with 3 PT boat task forces: AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/20/44 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Guam at 62,66 Japanese Ships BB Kongo BB Haruna CA Tone CA Chikuma CA Takao CA Atago DD Akitsuki DD Hatsuzuki DD Wakazuki DD Shimotsuki DD Tamanami DD Fujinami Allied Ships PT PT-126 PT PT-128 PT PT-129, Shell hits 1, and is sunk PT PT-130 PT PT-131, Shell hits 13, and is sunk PT PT-132 PT PT-133 PT PT-134 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Guam at 62,66 Japanese Ships BB Kongo BB Haruna CA Tone, Shell hits 1 CA Chikuma, Shell hits 3 CA Takao CA Atago DD Akitsuki DD Hatsuzuki DD Wakazuki DD Shimotsuki DD Tamanami DD Fujinami Allied Ships PT PT-138, Shell hits 10, on fire, heavy damage PT PT-163, Shell hits 29, on fire, heavy damage PT PT-167, Shell hits 1, on fire, heavy damage PT PT-168 PT PT-169 PT PT-170, Shell hits 5, on fire, heavy damage PT PT-235, Shell hits 7, on fire, heavy damage PT PT-236 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Guam at 62,66 Japanese Ships BB Kongo BB Haruna, Shell hits 2 CA Tone, Torpedo hits 1, on fire CA Chikuma CA Takao CA Atago DD Akitsuki DD Hatsuzuki DD Wakazuki DD Shimotsuki DD Tamanami DD Fujinami Allied Ships PT PT-237 PT PT-238, Shell hits 4, heavy damage PT PT-248 PT PT-249 PT PT-250, Shell hits 8, and is sunk PT PT-261, Shell hits 26, heavy damage PT PT-262 PT PT-263, Shell hits 6, on fire, heavy damage I agree that the PT boats should be attacked by airplanes, even though they are hard to spot. A house rule should take care of the rest IMO.

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