RE: AI a little on the stupid side (Full Version)

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ZOOMIE1980 -> RE: AI a little on the stupid side (7/30/2004 4:42:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SunDevil

I thought I read somewhere, maybe it is the manual, that this whole auto-convey feature was for behind line operations. Going from SF to OZ a few months into the game is not behind the lines. I think this should be fixed what you guys are mentioning as issues, but it is sometimes hard to put a square peg in a round hole. Just my opinion.


It very well could be just that. It appears that the computer simply picks the most direct route to destination. Then as Fraggo, states, it may alter that route as it discovers enemy force concentrations. Problem is, how soon? G4M's have a huge range vs Ki-21's. And it apparently isn't altering paths enough to stay out of harms way in many instances. Another thing that even old PACWAR did was once a destination base came under an enemy ZOC it would cease auto-supply. Is there a facility for that in this one? I mean, if as the Japanese player I have Rabaul on the auto-convoy system and the Allies eventually get it under a zone of control will the auto-convoy "auto-off" Rabaul and stop trying to supply it???? PACWAR did that.



ZOOMIE1980 -> RE: AI a little on the stupid side (7/30/2004 4:48:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

If you actually *ran* that scenario, you would see that the TF would divert around the base with the high Air Bal number. It will not show the turn you actually gave the order as the path is updated as the turn runs.

Look at the path AFTER the turn. You'll notice some really strange zigzags in it. This is the AI stepping in and trying to route around danger. The ability to do this is based on the level of intel available. The more the intel, the higher the safety factor.


I also seem to remember you or someone else stating that this new problem with overly aggressive transport TF AI thing was a direct result of your Mandalay test that resulted in wratchetting up the overall agressiveness of the AI. If so, there goes that law of unintended consequences again. Push in on the ameoba on one side, and it bulges out, unpredictably, somewhere else.....

Anyway, there is an overall problem, quite obviously, that too many computer controlled TF's are blindly moving into enemy AZOC's. Not sure what, if anything, can be done about short of segmenting out computer controlled transport TF's from the overall aggresiveness setting and putting them under some sort of alternate control mechanism that is much more sensative to known enemy force concetrations.



Mr.Frag -> RE: AI a little on the stupid side (7/30/2004 4:59:12 PM)

The overall problem is that people are using the auto-convoy system to supply bases that are in a hostile area. It is designed to handle rear area bases only.

When the game starts, until you establish a safe corridor to Oz, the path from West Coast of the USA to Oz *IS* hostile. None of your island bases have been built up to provide air cover, nor do you have the air power projection due to massive shortages of everything.

Using it prior to establishing power projection just means you will loose ships because you are sending them in harms way without proper protection. The AI can't undo your orders even though they are silly.



ZOOMIE1980 -> RE: AI a little on the stupid side (7/30/2004 5:03:32 PM)

And, I think others have posted this temp-fix to the SF-OZ transport problem before.

1) Don't use auto-convoy or even Computer Control for the mega TF's going from SF to OZ

2) Set your TF to Not Unload

3) Retirement allowed

4) Destination Pago-Pago

5) Homebase Brisbane (or whatever).

6) Reverse that for the home bound trip

The TF will head to Pago-Pago, will not unload and then "return" to Brisbane.



ZOOMIE1980 -> RE: AI a little on the stupid side (7/30/2004 5:05:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

The overall problem is that people are using the auto-convoy system to supply bases that are in a hostile area. It is designed to handle rear area bases only.

When the game starts, until you establish a safe corridor to Oz, the path from West Coast of the USA to Oz *IS* hostile. None of your island bases have been built up to provide air cover, nor do you have the air power projection due to massive shortages of everything.

Using it prior to establishing power projection just means you will loose ships because you are sending them in harms way without proper protection. The AI can't undo your orders even though they are silly.



Problem people are having though is the computer player using auto-convoy (or something similar) into hostile territory. The Human can do as you say, and should. But so should the computer AI. IT isn't, apparently



adsoul -> RE: AI a little on the stupid side (7/30/2004 5:12:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

The overall problem is that people are using the auto-convoy system to supply bases that are in a hostile area. It is designed to handle rear area bases only.



Roger on this, Auto-convoy system does work really good if you activate only rear-base.


quote:

When the game starts, until you establish a safe corridor to Oz, the path from West Coast of the USA to Oz *IS* hostile. None of your island bases have been built up to provide air cover, nor do you have the air power projection due to massive shortages of everything.


I don't understand this point. Why auto-convoy TFs cannot travel on a Southern route, I mean out of range of Jap a/c based at the Gilbert? Maybe this is what happens in the game (I have played just to late January 1942) and I think it was what happened in RL... or I'm missing something?



ZOOMIE1980 -> RE: AI a little on the stupid side (7/30/2004 5:25:58 PM)

The problem isn't HUMAN players setting unsafe bases to auto-convoy, it is the COMPUTER player doing that. This weekend I will try and reload an early Japanese AI based game where Japan has taken Khota Bharu and moved on, but I still have a large airwing at Singapore, and see how long it takes the AI the put that base in it's auto-convoy system (or simply starts moving unescorted supply TFs to the base, which is essentially, for the computer AI, an auto-convoy to an unsafe base).

The computer player essentially needs a hostility check and two separate base resupply routines. If base is safe then fine, send transports as it currently does. If base is unsafe (under enemy Air Zone of Control) execute the UnsafeResupply() routine, which should send only heavily escorted TF's there.



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