Super Fighters

Super Fighters (Full Version)

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pendrich -> Super Fighters (8/11/2004 6:45:16 AM)
Mild bug. My Hellcats fought 6 Tojos and 9 Peggys defending a TF Somehow we managed to kill 15 Tojos and 13 Peggys. Now given that there was no attack on an airfield and no ships were destroyed. I noticed this one other time and it certainly isn't a huge deal, just odd. Thanks for the check-up on this. Pendulous Richard, If Hallsy says it, its no Bull

2ndACR -> RE: Super Fighters (8/11/2004 6:50:42 AM)
It is called Fog of War. You will see lots of it. I have engaged 12 Buffalos and shot down 30+.

pendrich -> RE: Super Fighters (8/11/2004 7:18:48 AM)
ahh, thanks.

DoomedMantis -> RE: Super Fighters (8/11/2004 11:42:59 AM)
the difference is between claimed kills and actual kills. With a game started and continued in the same game version this is less apparant

gdpsnake -> RE: Super Fighters (8/11/2004 8:14:11 PM)
I understand the fog of war but really, how many times I've seen 30-50 kills claimed when less than 15-20 A/C were actual is WAY OUT of proportion. That's just too much bad reporting......

mongo -> RE: Super Fighters (8/11/2004 11:02:35 PM)
Fighter pilots always inflate numbers... everything is bigger to them than in reality [:D]

Mr.Frag -> RE: Super Fighters (8/11/2004 11:06:26 PM)
quote: I understand the fog of war but really, how many times I've seen 30-50 kills claimed when less than 15-20 A/C were actual is WAY OUT of proportion. That's just too much bad reporting...... You obviously never saw the German kills reported during the Battle of Britain. They shot down every aircraft Britain had so many times based on reports that it was getting comical to even read the numbers. The same goes for the AVG boys ... they shot down more aircraft then Japan had [:D]

KGrob -> RE: Super Fighters (8/12/2004 12:00:39 AM)
It is historically accurate -- and it was fairly common -- for more than one pilot to claim a specific kill. Thus, if two squadrons of friendly fighters engaged two squadrons of enemy fighters, and five planes were shot down on each side, it wouldn't be unusual for each side to claim 8 to 12 (or more!) kills. And that is just he result of pilots who genuinely believe they are getting the kills. By the time you throw in a touch of propaganda and political spin you might get a lot more. This was also common among the allied bombers when a German fighter was shot down. If four German fighters got shot down on a bombing mission, be assured that double that many allied gunners made claims for the kills. And, it makes it difficult to verify when you don't have access to the aircraft crash sites. This is especially true at sea. An aircraft that crashes into the ocean is a little harder to confirm than one that leaves a smoking hole in the ground.

ZOOMIE1980 -> RE: Super Fighters (8/12/2004 12:03:34 AM)
They did have gun cameras back then didn't they?

Nixuebrig -> RE: Super Fighters (8/12/2004 12:24:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ZOOMIE1980 They did have gun cameras back then didn't they? Yep, but mostly you don`t follow your victim until he crashes. You shoot at him, he makes a dive and you consider him killed (and your gun camera indicates a sure kill, or a probably). He climbs up and is enganged again. In the air war over Europe USAAF Pilots claimed the whole Luftwaffe shotdown in one day, just because they fought the same fighters again and again. And turret gunners often fired at the same target and all claimed this kill for them. FIghting over your own territorium helps, as you can simply count the wrecks;)

KGrob -> RE: Super Fighters (8/12/2004 1:06:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ZOOMIE1980 They did have gun cameras back then didn't they? Yes they did. But, they were practically non-existant until later in the war and even then their use wasn't all that widespread -- granted it was more common in some types of American aircraft than it was for our allies or for the Axis. Photo equipment took up weight and space that could be used for fuel or ammo, and was also expensive. And, as Prince stated, the "gun camera" most often caught only fleeting glimpses of the action. They might detect an enemy aircraft being hit by machineguns, etc. (Not all aircraft burst into flames when struck by enemy fire.) But, even with a gun camera, numbers might be inflated -- it was certainly possible for gun cameras on two friendly aircraft to record the same enemy being struck and....presto....you have two kills of one aircraft -- both verified by gun camera.

MadDawg -> RE: Super Fighters (8/12/2004 4:12:51 AM)
Personaly Id just wish they would sync up the animation and combat report to show the same values as they did in UV (and as it states in the manual), as currently both of these show different, yet FOW'ed, kill statistics. As a player who doesnt have time to sit through every and every animation this is very annoying as the animation seems to give much closer results than the report, thus if I dont watch it I am getting a less accurate picture of a battle than my opponent. Dawg

gdpsnake -> RE: Super Fighters (8/12/2004 9:20:58 PM)
Yes, it's possible that many CLAIMS were made BUT that many claims were NOT honored! Otherwise, everyone would have been an ace with 50 kills!

Nixuebrig -> RE: Super Fighters (8/12/2004 9:53:22 PM)
e.g. the Allied raid vs Schweinfurt Gunners claimed 288 Interceptors shot down, which was corrected to 148 and many probables. The true Number of shot down interceptors was 27. Figures taken from "The Mighty Eigth" by Freeman It is not that unusual that much higher numbers were allowed, it`s just a question of moral. You can take own losses easier when you think the enemy suffers at the same or even greater rate.

Apollo11 -> RE: Super Fighters (8/13/2004 11:44:49 PM)
Hi all, quote: ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag You obviously never saw the German kills reported during the Battle of Britain. Both sides in BoB multiplied enemy looses and divided their own... [;)] Leo "Apollo11"

DJAndrews -> RE: Super Fighters (8/14/2004 1:37:17 PM)
For those who want a better ideas of actual losses, just look at the intelligence report. It gives the un-FOW'd aircraft losses by category (air to air, lost to flak, etc.) each turn. It can be handy in assessing ship losses too as aircraft losses when a carrier or capital ship (with float planes) sinks show up as "destroyed on ground". The only time the intell report becomes less useful is when a number of furballs occur on the same day. Then you can't tell which aircraft were lost, where.

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