ICB Cluster Bombs (Full Version)

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BartM -> ICB Cluster Bombs (8/16/2004 8:56:46 PM)

I searched and didn't find a thing in the forums, which was kinda odd [:D]

I posted this in the OOB as well, but was curious if anyone had information on the use of these items in WWII ? Reference would be great



UncleBuck -> RE: ICB Cluster Bombs (8/16/2004 9:20:43 PM)

The Russians had PTB-96 canisters which were used on IL-2's and some PE-2/3's. They were cannisters set into teh airframe that contained a bunch of Hand Grenades. They were originally used against troops and tanks. They were a great area weapon. THe US also had Para Frag bombs that were devastating to soft targerts. This was a Fragmentaion bomb with a parachute attached. the Planes woudl fly in low and drop these retarded bombs. They had either altimeter fuses or a long fuse extender and woudl explode above the ground at a set altitude. They woudl shred any infantry or aircraft in teh way of teh blast. Just imagine a 250 lb Hand grenade. They were dropped from Medium bombers like A-20's B-25's and B-26's. Both were later war inventions and I beleive did not begin use until late 1943.
I don't have any sources with me (at work) but I do have them in books at home.
UB



BartM -> RE: ICB Cluster Bombs (8/16/2004 9:24:21 PM)

great, thank you Buck :) I knew about the russians, but wasnt sure about the US. thought (for some odd reason) the P-38s used some, dunno, not enough sleep I think lol



UncleBuck -> RE: ICB Cluster Bombs (8/16/2004 9:50:11 PM)

I woudl guess for teh Allies you could add it in to the OOB. Just add in a 250 PARAFRAG. Change teh Penetration to 10 and effect to 1000. This woudl mean that it woudl not do much to vehicles but woudl be like dropping a 1,000lb bomb on troops and aircraft. Neither of those have any armor to speak of. My only hiccup I see is how to get planes to use them, and how would you set it up to use? They woudl be useful for gorund attack and Airfield attack, but not Anti-Ship or port attacks. Also very few planes use the 20lb bomb except for extended range attacks.

Another bomb that is missing is the Incediary Bomb. Both Japan and the US had them. The B-29's used them with great effect on Tokyo.

UB



Mr.Frag -> RE: ICB Cluster Bombs (8/16/2004 9:54:14 PM)

quote:

Another bomb that is missing is the Incediary Bomb. Both Japan and the US had them. The B-29's used them with great effect on Tokyo.


They are automatic ... anytime you perform a City Attack against a Manpower type, the bombs are switched out for these firestarters.



UncleBuck -> RE: ICB Cluster Bombs (8/16/2004 10:03:10 PM)

Doing a quick search at lunch on Para Frags. Found this. looks like they were in Use very early in the war. They are 25 lb bombs not 250 as I thought. Damned Memory Flaw!

A-20G


The next major production variant was the A-20G, of which 2,850 aircraft were built by Douglas at Santa Monica. These also had R-2600-23 engines, and were some 20.32 em (8 in) longer to provide a nose armament comprising two 12.7 mm (0.50 in) machine guns and four 20 mm cannon, and either two 12.7 mm (0.50 in) guns or one 12.7 mm (0.50 in) and one 7.62 mm (0.30 in) gun in the rear cockpit. Most of the early production A-20Gs in this configuration were supplied to the USSR. The next A-20G variant had the 20 mm cannon replaced by 12.7 mm (0.50 in) machine guns and the final variant introduced a rear fuselage 15.24 cm (6 in) wider to accommodate an electrically operated dorsal turret with two 12.7 mm (0.50 in) guns, as well as having underwing bomb racks to accept an additional 2,000 lbs (907 kg) of bombs, extra fuel tanks in the bomb bay, and provision for an underfuselage drop tank to provide a ferry range of more than 2,000 miles (3219 km). This was, of course, vital for the type's deployment in the Pacific theatre, where its arrival in 1942 came as something of a mixed blessing to Major General George C. Kenney's 5th Air Force, struggling to defeat the Japanese threat to New Guinea. As delivered, the aircraft were considered to be too lightly armed, so the basic armament was supplemented by four 12.7 mm (0.50 in) machine guns, and as there were no bombs available as required for their employment in a close-support role, Kenney suggested the provision of 23 lbs (10 kg) fragmentation bombs with small parachutes attached. With the A-20s each able to carry 40 of these 'para-frag' bombs, the aircraft played a vital role in dislodging the enemy from Buna. Other improvements introduced gradually to A-20G Havocs included better armour, navigation and bomb aiming equipment, and winterisation accessories for aircraft to be operated in low-temperature zones.


A-20H





timtom -> RE: ICB Cluster Bombs (8/16/2004 10:17:41 PM)

From 26/8/42 to 22/1/43, 5th AF flew 121 CAS sorties, dropping 40 tons of bombers and expending 97,000 MG rounds. As a (not very good) comparison, 3rd Army in Europe got in excess of 7,500 CAS sorties from 01/11/44 to 15/12/44.



timtom -> RE: ICB Cluster Bombs (8/16/2004 10:23:10 PM)

Oh, and the Luftwaffe used a frag bomb usually referred to as a "butterfly-bomb", alluding to its shape I guess. SLA Marshall gives a fairly graphic description of what its like to be at the receiving end of one of these in a book of his, - "Night Drop" methinks.



Mr.Frag -> RE: ICB Cluster Bombs (8/16/2004 10:58:49 PM)

quote:

From 26/8/42 to 22/1/43, 5th AF flew 121 CAS sorties, dropping 40 tons of bombers and expending 97,000 MG rounds. As a (not very good) comparison, 3rd Army in Europe got in excess of 7,500 CAS sorties from 01/11/44 to 15/12/44.


Yep, the problem with island hopping and over water flights and the long distances involved. CAS type missions pretty much had to be pre-planned ... you couldn't jump on the radio and call in a strike from various aircraft orbiting in the area.



UncleBuck -> RE: ICB Cluster Bombs (8/16/2004 11:09:48 PM)

That is true, but Low level Airfield and troop concentration attacks were numerous and documented. This is where the Para Frags came in to there own. I mean an A-20 carrying 40 Para Frag bombs each would make a mess out of a base. I woudl think that 10 to 20 of these planes would be like a bombardment by a Cruiser TF. 400 to 800 Para frag bombs or a mix of Frag and GP bombs. Runway Denial. Oh well They ar ento in the game and I am not sure I know how to put them in. I can see it now, I make an attack on a TF and drop Para frags on them, that woudl be less than efective lol.

If you have any ideas how to get this in teh game via editor Frag say so.

UB



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