Could a future patch/mod add... (Full Version)

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samuraigg -> Could a future patch/mod add... (8/25/2004 11:59:19 PM)

an option to disable the built in triggers for ending the grand campaign if you are leading by a certain point value? I am currently playing Allied versus the AI, and would hate for my hard played game to suddenly end in 43 or 44 when I want to try to keep playing it out. Seems odd that you wouldn't have the option of pushing for a total Japanese surrender/conquest.



Jaws_slith -> RE: Could a future patch/mod add... (8/26/2004 12:25:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: samuraigg

an option to disable the built in triggers for ending the grand campaign if you are leading by a certain point value? I am currently playing Allied versus the AI, and would hate for my hard played game to suddenly end in 43 or 44 when I want to try to keep playing it out. Seems odd that you wouldn't have the option of pushing for a total Japanese surrender/conquest.


Agree 100%[sm=00000436.gif]



pasternakski -> RE: Could a future patch/mod add... (8/26/2004 12:30:17 AM)

Several of us argued long and hard for this during the game design phase, but were ignored.



Tankerace -> RE: Could a future patch/mod add... (8/26/2004 12:44:15 AM)

That was the cool thing about PTO. If you won, but wanted to, you could continue the game. Oh well, I guess the main solution is to just play like crap until '43, and then you can drag it out until '46.



DrewMatrix -> RE: Could a future patch/mod add... (8/26/2004 12:49:41 AM)

I agree. I think it is crummy of the game to decide I am done before I decide I am done.

There are work-around but they require you to add something worth a lot of points to the OOB before you start the game, so you can't make an adjustment midway through a running game. Make Tokyo and SF each worth 100,000 points or similar.

Hmm, can you add a unit (a base, say) with it's location off the map so neither player can ever get to it? Then you set the VPS for owning that unit at 100,000 and just subtract that from your score to see where you really are.



von Murrin -> RE: Could a future patch/mod add... (8/26/2004 12:51:08 AM)

Edit in 50k points for Paramushiro and United States. That should keep autovictory from happening.



Tankerace -> RE: Could a future patch/mod add... (8/26/2004 12:52:04 AM)

quote:

Paramushiro and United States
Good workaround, except that I am already half way into 1942.... so I guess Ill have to e choosey about what I do.



von Murrin -> RE: Could a future patch/mod add... (8/26/2004 12:54:46 AM)

Can you edit the save? I've never tried and I'm at work, but, well... you get the idea. [:D]



wepwawet -> RE: Could a future patch/mod add... (8/26/2004 2:13:58 AM)

Wait. So you're saying that the (approximately) 50+ hours that I've invested so far in crippling the US fleet and establishing a strong defensive line is wasted? I was really looking forward to see if I could hold the line against the reinforcements that the US gets but I have way over the number of victory points for an automatic victory and the game doesn't even give me the option to keep playing at that point? You have got to be kidding me!!!! There was only 1 major CV battle. 5 US against my 6. I got lucky and sank 4 of them with none sunk on my side. So that's it? So I may as well quit now (just started July '42)? To be totally and completely honest, I'm starting to regret getting this game. I guess I can always try to figure out how the scenerio editor works....



Bodhi -> RE: Could a future patch/mod add... (8/26/2004 2:41:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: von Murrin

Can you edit the save? I've never tried and I'm at work, but, well... you get the idea. [:D]


Currently no way to edit saved games. If you want to use the workaround of adding large VP value to an American and Japanese base that isn't likely to change hands, you have to do it in the scenario editor before you start a game.

Would it be difficult to add a "Auto victory - Quit now or continue game?" with yes/no options to the autovictory screen?



Wilhammer -> RE: Could a future patch/mod add... (8/26/2004 3:20:36 AM)

In UV, I found you could load each autosave after a scenario ends, and go beyond the scripted end, one turn at a time.



Mr.Frag -> RE: Could a future patch/mod add... (8/26/2004 3:46:08 AM)

Curious, what exactly is the point? You won, need extra time to gloat and rub it in? [:D]

The 4:1 and 3:1 levels for 43/44 are not as easy as one would think. It's really a sign that (a) time to stop playing Historical level AI or (b) you need to find a new PBEM'r who is slightly more sober when entering in moves [;)]



samuraigg -> RE: Could a future patch/mod add... (8/26/2004 3:56:08 AM)

Is there any reason NOT to have an option for it? How hard would it be to program in? Seems like there is enough demand for it.

Don't question the customer. [:-] [;)]

Your point is well taken though.. I think I might start up a new game on a harder difficulty level.. playing on historical right now.



DrewMatrix -> RE: Could a future patch/mod add... (8/26/2004 4:22:04 AM)

quote:

Curious, what exactly is the point? You won, need extra time to gloat and rub it in?


Well, two points. For me, personally, I don't think in a real war you can say "Gee, you are way ahead. What say I concede and we go two out of three".

The other point is:

quote:

Don't question the customer.


If we, the customers want to do that who are you, The Management to tell us we are "playing all wrong."?

We may have other goals here, such as seeing what eventually happens. Or just having a good time.



tsimmonds -> RE: Could a future patch/mod add... (8/26/2004 4:35:24 AM)

quote:

The other point is:
quote:

Don't question the customer.

If we, the customers want to do that who are you, The Management to tell us we are "playing all wrong."?

Superficially, this is a very compelling arguement. But then one remembers, even at Burger King ("Have it your way....") you can't get a burger topped with jalapenos, cheddar cheese, sauteed mushrooms in wine sauce, avocado slices, capers, foie gras, caviar....you can only get the toppings that they have decided to keep in stock, toppings that a majority of their customers have expressed a preference for, toppings which still allow them to make a profit. This is not a short-order burger; this is a wargame created for a mass market. How many other computer games give you any creative input whatsoever, or even a forum to b1tch in? Fortunately for you, you can easily take care of your wish yourself with the editor.

edit: I do sound like a crank, don't I? I think I may have gone a glass of wine too far. But that doesn't make me wrong.



Bodhi -> RE: Could a future patch/mod add... (8/26/2004 4:36:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag
Curious, what exactly is the point? You won, need extra time to gloat and rub it in? [:D]


You may regard it as a complete waste of time, but if the customer wants it, as it appears some do, and it's trivial to program, why not put it in?



wepwawet -> RE: Could a future patch/mod add... (8/26/2004 4:40:53 AM)

quote:

Curious, what exactly is the point? You won, need extra time to gloat and rub it in?


Well, the point is that by the end of 1943, the US will have 10 CV's again. To my 6 (+2 crappy CVs). Seems like I'll still be fighting hard to hold the line by then. Assuming, of course, that the AI isn't stupid enough to commit it's new CVs one at a time as they become available, which, unfortunately, it probably would do.



mogami -> RE: Could a future patch/mod add... (8/26/2004 4:49:24 AM)

Hi, Add it to the list. But in PBEM there are built in endings other then auto victory. (Like your partner refusing to answer your emails.)



RUPD3658 -> RE: Could a future patch/mod add... (8/26/2004 5:00:40 AM)

This feature is needed. I am playing scn 15 as the japs against very hard AI. 11/02 and the score is about 50,000 to 9,000. Would be nice to see if the allies could come back. I would even consider turning the japs over to the AI and trying to come back as the Allies.



Mike Scholl -> RE: Could a future patch/mod add... (8/26/2004 5:33:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski

Several of us argued long and hard for this during the game design phase, but were ignored.

It worries me that "IGNORED" keeps coming up in descriptions of this kind. Sounds
as if there is a "sacred cow" cult operating within 2by3



Tankerace -> RE: Could a future patch/mod add... (8/26/2004 5:37:52 AM)

Hmm....what we want was ignored eh? How much did we pay for this game again.....



samuraigg -> RE: Could a future patch/mod add... (8/26/2004 6:04:19 AM)

quote:

you can't get a burger topped with jalapenos, cheddar cheese, sauteed mushrooms in wine sauce, avocado slices, capers, foie gras, caviar....


Except we aren't asking for something horribly impossible for the devs to give us, so this comparison is not valid. It seems to me (with my nonexistant programming knowledge) that it should be a fairly easy feature to add. Give an option to turn off the trigger.

Its stupid, the user should be given the option of when to quit, not told "ok you're far enough ahead, time to stop playing."



Rendova -> RE: Could a future patch/mod add... (8/26/2004 6:14:43 AM)

I also vote for having the option of auto-victory turn offs. If I want to play till the cows come home, why shouldn't I. I won't force you to watch.



siRkid -> RE: Could a future patch/mod add... (8/26/2004 6:22:26 AM)

I'll add it to the list and we'll see what happens.[sm=terms.gif]



Mr.Frag -> RE: Could a future patch/mod add... (8/26/2004 6:31:52 AM)

Wheres all this negative stuff come from lately? People not getting enough sleep from playing too much? [>:]

You are completely free to edit the VP locations for both the Japan homelands and the West Coast to silly multiplier levels to disable the auto-victory completely with no programming changes at all. Lets use programmers for stuff that actually requires their time. [;)]

This negative "I've been ignored" stuff really bugs me ... if you don't like things, start your own game company and write your own game then you can have it just the way *you* want it. Thats the way the real world works. I have never seen a group that spent more time adding player requested improvements and features. If you want to give 2by3 a bad time, you are biting the very hand that feeds you. Who do you plan on whining to when they are gone? [8|]

There is not a game that exists where one side can't quit when they have had enough, good luck finding someone to continue to play a game beyond a 4:1 ratio.



Tankerace -> RE: Could a future patch/mod add... (8/26/2004 6:35:00 AM)

For the purposes of PBEM, I completely agree with an autovictory. But when playing against the AI, and you want to try to invade Japan, an autovictory in 1943 can ruin what you are trying to do. Hence, I am in favor of adding a toggle, so that those of us with AI games can turn off the autovictory.



Mr.Frag -> RE: Could a future patch/mod add... (8/26/2004 6:47:10 AM)

quote:

Hence, I am in favor of adding a toggle, so that those of us with AI games can turn off the autovictory.


Toggle requires artwork, programming, etc.

Editor requires nothing. Edit you solution, takes 2 minutes.



Tankerace -> RE: Could a future patch/mod add... (8/26/2004 6:48:08 AM)

True. But, when I have already invested several dozen hours, an editor doesn't do me that much good does it? [8|]



Bodhi -> RE: Could a future patch/mod add... (8/26/2004 6:59:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag
This negative "I've been ignored" stuff really bugs me ... if you don't like things, start your own game company and write your own game then you can have it just the way *you* want it. Thats the way the real world works. I have never seen a group that spent more time adding player requested improvements and features. If you want to give 2by3 a bad time, you are biting the very hand that feeds you. Who do you plan on whining to when they are gone? [8|]


If you really want a game to be exactly "the way *you* want it", you design and write it yourself. No need to form a game compnay to do so. If you want to sell it and earn a living from designing/writing games, then you form a game company. And as any good company should do, you listen to your customers. "Thats the way the real world works."

A company that listens and spends "time adding player requested improvements and features" is actually helping itself by making the game appeal more to the target audience. Not only that, they are also getting valuable feedback on how to make future games even more attractive to their paying customers. (BTW, it's actually the paying customers who are "feeding" 2By3/Matrix, not the other way round.[;)] ) If they continue to supply games that people are willing to buy, then they won't "disappear", unless individually they decide that they're tired of making games and want a change of direction.

The attitude that, this is the game we made, take it or leave it and stop whining, is symptomatic of a game made as a non-commercial hobby, or one from a company that isn't going to be around for too much longer. Personally, I don't believe 2By/Matrix fit either of these two descriptions.[;)]



Sultanofsham -> RE: Could a future patch/mod add... (8/26/2004 7:02:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kid

I'll add it to the list and we'll see what happens.[sm=terms.gif]


Thanks [:D]



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